To the sexist f’ing a-hole that felt brave enough to say to my guy friend “we’ll get them drunk—it’s cheaper than a whore” I hope you fall off a fucking cliff. You are the epitome of the rape culture society that we live in today. How timing well-suited this experience, as the Gazette‘s issue this week speaks to the problematic ways in which we define consent. Also to the drunken prick outside of Willy’s that pathetically attempted to slap my friend’s ass—are you a fucking caveman? She should have shoved her fist down your throat, it would have been a deserving response. —Feminist Sick of Cavemen
This article appears in Mar 11-17, 2010.
My personal fave “Sweating like a whore in confession” hehehe
OMG “You are the epitome of the rape culture society that we live in today”
Somebody’s in Women’s Studies!!!
OP is right though, that’s why i stay away from the Dome or the palace (the Dump and the Parasite).
Matthew Luthor, I applaud your insightful comment. Your commentary on a – clearly – unimportant topic really sheds light on what REALLY is important. We need more of you in Halifax. Stay Gold.
i’m with M L to compare the two is just whitewash bs that turns people off womans rights activist types
Scroll back through Mathew Luthor’s past comments and you’ll see he is’s not only an idiot, he’s also really, really creepy.
Thanks!
When you compare small acts from a drunk in Halifax to the true horrors that some women endure, in say Africa, you look like a fool.
And scoobydoo? I already have one stalker. precious.
Guys have been making off-color/inappropriate remarks about women forever, alcohol just accelerates the process. 2 questions – 1) What did your guy friend reply to the comment? and 2) Where’s Willys?
There was no comparison to Africa in that statement, I’m not sure you read it.
Furthermore, that type of response is what perpetuates behaviour like that. I’m not saying, I’m just saying..
It’s nice to know that you show no concern for sexual assault. Real nice.
there you go No-E where the hell did you read into what M L is saying as no concern for sex. ass. that’s EXACTLY what i believe we’re bothe talking about; you group drunk’n asswipes boorish behavior to actual criminal acts stfu !
NoE , never did I say that I condone such remarks/behaviour or was it an excuse. My point was it’s been happening forever, but in the 80s 4 out of 5 guys might have said something rude, while now it’s 2 out of 5, and as soon as we can get the last 2 to move out of their caves we’ll be laughing.
hey ml: wlyb xo
citizens:i am not the stalker
remain alert at all times
I’m the female friend who got her ass slapped. Just to clarify: we were drinking nothing but water all night, and we didn’t go to the Dome or the Palace — we were at the Foggy Goggle.
To imply, ML, that this is an overreaction or that we should just expect such acts shows you are less than apathetic — you’re also sexist.
And no, neither of us is in Women’s Studies. That’s beside the fucking point. Any woman who feels she doesn’t need to be subjected to harassment is not automatically in Women’s Studies — she is standing up for her basic human rights.
Fucktard. Go read the National Post.
LS: How can we not “take you wrong” when you say “baby” and “slut” as if those words aren’t demeaning, and when you suggest a simple solution to an overarching societal problem.
We told him off. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t try to pressure another woman into having sex with him. See where I’m going with this? Probably not.
Ok, here’s the rub.
When you pander with statements like “You are the epitome of the rape culture society that we live in today” It pisses me off. Can you guess why?
For the same reason that those asinine “Take back the night” marches do.
I’m a guy who doesn’t rape, treat any woman with disrespect, or harass them, but I get thrown into “The Rape Culture” by default. I can’t march on those nights “Because all men are evil”
Suck it up, Princess.
Your treatment from guys all depends on what you find acceptable.
If someone slapped your ass, no, that’s not alright. But what was your comeback when buddy made the “whore” comment, or when buddy slapped your ass, was there any?
The feminist thing just gives something for people to feed off of, and egg’s them on.
Nevermind that drunken sex is soooo ineffectual and pointless, I find it curious that some guy thinks he has the power to get a girl drunk. Aren’t women capable of retaining enough sobriety to keep themselves alert to scumbag tactics like this. Any man who would take advantage of a drunk woman is NOT A MAN, he is lower than low! Purposely plying of someone with alcohol to gain that advantage verges on criminal behaviour. Is it really consent if the person is so blotto they can’t think straight and would likely not consent if they were sober? Are some guys really so bereft of social skills that they have to resort to scumbag tactics to get sex? What’s wrong with dating, getting to know a girl and showing some respect before expecting sex? Guys like the OP encountered are clearly not capable of thinking with the head on their shoulders, a too common trait these days!
To further clarify (for the assumptive douchewads):
YES, we told off the fucking pervert who said we we cheaper than whores. We said he can’t treat women that way, and explained why. His response was denial.
YES, I told off the ass-slapper and demanded an apology. He apologized. He saw an error in his actions. Apparently other people on this message board DON’T, which is deeply fucked up.
Stop making assumptions, and start realizing that NO it is not OK to treat women like sex objects. And NO, we don’t paint all men with the same brush. Men can be feminist, too: It simply means they value equality.
we are only here to gather information
you have made things clear to us
So two drunks in Halifax means that we live in a rape culture?
Can you explain that to simple old me?
I also like that you use douche as an insult.
So an item that is exclusively used by women is…ah forget it..you won’t understand.
Matthew Luthor: “I can’t march on those nights “Because all men are evil” “
Who said the marches are about the harassment or criminal behaviour towards woman? Their purpose is to show unity against all forms of violence in our neighbourhoods be the perpetrators men or women because the streets should be safe at night for everyone, not just women.
Who said ‘all men are evil’? Non-violent men are not capable of showing support for violence perpetrated by other men? This should come as a surprise to all the men who do attend these marches. Perhaps looking at self-limitations would allow you the freedom to attend a march someday instead of blaming the march and/or society for your absence when you appear keen to go.
Sorry OL
There will be times in feminist activism when men are respectfully asked to understand the need for women-only space or events. Some men may experience this as a sort of reverse discrimination. What is important to remember, however, is that by virtue of the real and continuing power differences in our society between men and women as groups, the occasional exclusion of men by women has a very different meaning then the historical exclusion of women by men. In other words, to suggest that there is no need for women-only space or events is to ignore the ongoing reality of male privilege.
ML: Please refer to this week’s Dal Gazette for a full explanation of “rape culture” (editorial, news article and feature) and how it pertains to sexual harassment.
I used “douche” ironically. But I take it back. You’re not worth the trouble. I find it consoling that you’re now picking apart an insult I used, not mine (and my friend’s) argument.
Please, please read this:
http://bitchmagazine.org/article/everythin…, and then pick up the Gazette.
After that, if you feel like writing an intelligent, informed response, please email editor@dalgazette.com.
I would first like to point out… by dissecting the usage of the word “douche”, you have since strayed entirely away from a post concerning sexual harassment.
Furthermore, these are two isolated incidents involving alcohol in a city with arguably the highest amount of bars per capita. It is likely that this may have occurred 10 to 1000 more times that evening and it could have happened to anyone, even your friends. I respect truthbetold for standing up for herself. However, this may not have stopped either of the previously stated individuals from intentionally taking advantage of a girl that night. This is not consensual initiation, one guy explicitly wanted to provide enough alcohol to inhibit someone’s behaviour. This. is. rape. It should be taken as seriously as any other sexual assault, and no amount of it… not even 0.3% of it is appropriate.
At no point (as a male) did I see this article as an attack on men. We are not all painted with the same brush. “Rape culture” implies that there is more than one way to sexually take advantage of someone in our society. It is truly concerning that you would rather argue against being called a rapist (which you clearly, very very clearly, were not) than offer some support or empathy. Two cases of sexual assault are too many.
Oh Boy! The Gazette!
One step above Frank Magazine.
You’re funny NE!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?…
ML: You say that, and I can tell you haven’t read the Gazette. I read every article twice weekly.
ML: Again with the assumptions. I know NE. He’s a close friend. In fact, he’s THE close friend who stood up for us last night in the bar.
HAHA!
I totally knew it!
With a comment like “I read every article twice weekly.”, one would assume that Dal would have made you a better reader.
I typically have to read the paper once…
“…that pathetically attempted to slap my friend’s ass”
Attempted.
“I’m the female friend who got her ass slapped.”
Got.
Yup, a feminist alright, can’t believe a word you spew. Nice handle!
“in a city with arguably the highest amount of bars per capital.”
Hey hey now, that’s Newfoundlands glory. Sheesh, get your facts straight =)
Balls: He slapped my tail bone extremely hard.
As far as I can tell, you weren’t there.
Funny enough, Newfoundland also has the highest amount of sexual activity…hmmm….
guys, give it up, we will ne ver win in a battle of sexes. the other side has too many weapons to use against us poor fucking neanderthals.that being said lady, and i use that term as a curtisy, why are you so fucking sure, that all women, don’t want to be treated as whatever. there are a few dandies around that would spit in your face. for even including them in your apparent crusade to enlighten all us cave people. but i do treat the female gender different than a guy, some of them are a lot tougher skinned and can fight to put mohammad ali to shame. tell this thing to those “ladies”.
Truth, There is this wicked hold you can do. It works wonders.
It’s hard to write down the “how to” but when a guy slaps your ass or grabs your crotch or any of the other countless things they do when at bars, grab the tops of his fingers and hold them in between your palms and the tops of your fingers. Kinda like you are making a fist around the tops of their fingers. Then bend back, this forces them to back off to where ever you want, which is usually the closest wall. At this point say a few kind words, then release. They will pretty much always let you be after that one. Works every time for me.
Thanks! Will do!
see ya see…everyone feels better
Extremely hard, you’d think the original story would have mentioned assault?
Assault, now that’s a crime.
Maybe get your story straight, before you start exaggerating?
Feminist indeed.
Thank you, Balls, for finally realizing what it was. Yes, it was attempted sexual assault. Again, you weren’t there.
I agree with Pain Girl. Please, let’s all just chill out and chalk this whole argument up to a lost hour of sleep.
What? I didn’t say that at all. I’ll agree you’re a feminist, but that’s about it.
Anyone who regards the Dal Gazette as a hard-hitting piece of news media needs to have their head examined. If you’re not a Womyn’s studies student, you’re a King’s Journalism student. I’d accept a Michael Moore documentary more as a piece of investigative journalism than I would the Gazette.
Anyways, back to the topic. We live in a “rape culture”? Seriously? Do you legislation allowing the rape of women in the street? No, we don’t. Don’t get me wrong; in no way do I support what was perpetrated, in fact, I think it’s terrible.
I’d also like to mention, the response of: “shoved her fist down your throat” does not lend anything to your argument. Violence begets violence, especially when it comes to drunk morons. Also, rape has little to do with sex. Anyone’s who has taken an intro psych course could tell you that. So, what is it? The guys probably wanted sex, but probably wouldn’t get past the slap on the ass because their enfeebled brains couldn’t rationalize past that specific urge.
ML: You’re a REAL genius! Perhaps TruthBeTold reads the Gazette twice weekly for a reason–but it is clear you don’t read papers at all, or else you might be a little more informed about world and community events! And I REALLY feel bad for poor little gender-oppressed Matthew Luthor–it MUST be really tough when you’re not invited to these (few) women-only spaces, put in place so women don’t have to concern themselves with harassment from men–I’m sure you are deeply upset to have one less place to dispel your misogyny on women–MUST BE AWFUL! My deepest sympathy goes out to you.
Also it should be known being a feminist isn’t an insult! Being a feminist doesn’t make anyone inherently good or bad, so Im unsure what any of you who have thrown the word around so loosely are trying to accomplish with that. Yes there are some criticisms to be made about feminism–as in any profession or social activism, but I would say the intentions of most feminists are for the greater good of society–NOT TO MAN-BASH. But for those who think it is to man-bash, you clearly have no sweet fucking clue feminism means so shut-it!
I guess the OB doesn’t read stats as far far more many men than women are victims of violent crimes.
Anyone who gets so drunk they have no control or inhibitions, WTF are you thinking? No one forced you to drink. Have some R*E*S*P*E*C*T for yourselves. Someone wanting to take advantage of someone who is drunk is typical in a bar scene.
Women are as gulity as men when it come to wanting to get a piece of ass downtown. Remember it takes two to tango.
I’m probably gonna get flamed for this but fuck it.
Yes, it’s not ok for a guy to slap your ass. Yes, it’s not ok for a guy to make those kind of comments.
BUT (and here’s where I’m gonna get ripped apart) the way some women dress today, it’s like they’re asking for that kind of attention. Tops with one string holding it on, those tight black pants all the girls seem to be wearing now that ride right up the ass crack, etc. Yes, those clothes should not be an invitation. But unfortunately in today’s society, they are to some morons out here. If you’re gonna dress like that, be prepared.
Disclaimer: I have no idea what the girl in question was wearing. This is just a general comment.
Says someone whose screen name is Sick of misogyny. ML’s not being misogynistic in any definable fashion.
A few questions and statements: if feminism is meant for the greater good of society, then why is the most vocal part of feminism the one that gets all the screen time, meanwhile, the actual good part of the community doesn’t actually speak out against it? Otherwise, it falls into the same radical group like other activists that speak out against first world social injustices. Often, feminism recently has been pursuing an agenda of misandry, and deconstructing even traditionally male groups, labeling them as misogynistic or non-inclusive. That is misandric in nature. So, feminism is by nature “male-bashing”.
FUCK, almost 50 comments and nobody saying nuttin’
A guy tells a JOKE to another guy, you overhear it and promptly shit yourself, “It’s cheaper than a whore” wtf does that JOKE have to do with rape culture, OP? Let me rephrase… What does a JOKE about how buying people drinks to get laid (which is what almost everyone is doing in bars, male or female) is cheaper than paying a prostitute for sex have to do with sexual violence and rape? There’s nothing violent about liquoring someone up so that they might sleep with you (people do it all the time without raping people) and there need not be anything violent about prostitution (If they’d just decriminalize it already). So where’s the connection?
It’s an offensive joke, I’ll give you that, some of the best humor is offensive humor, but if that’s not your type of humor, fine. You overheard it, too bad… But it’s a funny joke, I laughed at it when I read it, and I have a vagina… just like you!
This is why I can’t stand feminists. I don’t mind feminism, feminism is great. But some feminists are WAY too sensitive and get unnecessarily worked up over the smallest things and make feminism look bad. You redeemed yourself a little by calling out the guy who attempted to harass your friend, but still… calm the fuck down!
Women’s Studies!!!!
One thing i have been wondering about on this date:
The concept of consent how when a guy sleeps with a drunk girl, she cannot form “consent” so its rape.
What about when drunk girl AND drunk boy hook up, are they raping each other since neither can form consent? or would the guy still be blamed?
and as for the joke… ya kinda funny and kinda true… sexual assault…. not so much
Oceanlady, you ask this:
“” Aren’t women capable of retaining enough sobriety to keep themselves alert to scumbag tactics like this[?]””
Followed by this:
“”Is it really consent if the person is so blotto they can’t think straight and would likely not consent if they were sober?””
So I guess the answer to the first question is “no” then.
Women need to step up and take responsibility for their own drinking and drug use.
I am surprised to hear that today’s young “feminist” is so thin-skinned as to think that an off-colour joke in a bar, and a misguided attempt to pat someone’s derriere constitutes an example of “sexual assault”, or that it is indicative of our so-called (by them) “rape culture”…
It almost sounds like someone was “looking” for evidence of these things, and this was the worst they could find. I think Matthew Luthor made an astute observation when he said it barely registers on the same scale as what happens in many other nations…
To call this “sexual assault”, attempted or otherwise, seems to me to trivialize the pain and trauma experienced by REAL victims. And to say that it’s a “human right” not to be hit on by drunken slobs at a bar is a bit of a stretch as well.
Have you travelled much?
I’ve picked up a copy of the Gazette recently, and found it to be the most hilariously reactionary piece of garbage I’ve ever read. It the embodiment of student naivety and self indulgent tripe, and it embarrassed me as a student.
Anyone who say’s the Gazette is a reputable source for ANYTHING is a joke.
Now for something that’s a REAL joke, that’s calling Halifax bars a catalyst for ‘rape culture’.
I am really disappointed in a lot of you.
Yep, sounds like a bunch of humourless over-reacting radical feminazis to me. I guess that now makes me one of those horrible patriarchal misogynist men who’s pro-rape and should be shot. Seriously, chill out. Women (oops, sorry, “womyn”) have it better in Canada than just about any other country in the world. Not to say that things can’t always be improved, but it’s good to put it into a bit of perspective. If the worst you have to worry about is some drunk guy making an off-hand inappropriate comment and someone “attempting” to slap your ass (not saying it was right), you have it pretty good here and aren’t quite the victim you want to portray yourself as. You better not go to even other first-world countries like Italy, Spain, and Greece if you thought that was bad!
It was a joke. People make jokes, some you find funny, others not. Get over it – yes, I said it, get the fuck over it. There are far more important things to be concerned about. If you felt you were assaulted, call the police and have that person charged. It’s illegal just like any other assault.
I also have to question when Mr. Hero Male Feminist ‘NoEpiphany’ says when men “provide enough alcohol to inhibit someone’s behaviour. This. is. rape.” OK, so a girl I’m seeing and I have a few drinks together, we both get a bit drunk and have consensual sex… I guess I’m a rapist now? Fuck off. How about when I’m almost passed out drunk and a girl I’m with jumps my bone to try to have sex with me – is she a rapist? Yes, this has happened, but I don’t mind! Ha ha.
Also, finally, you definitely do not speak for all women, or even most. Some women like assertive men who aren’t afraid to speak their minds, joke around, and, well, be assertive without asking questions. This is what a lot of females are attracted to in males. Many women (such as ‘fizz’, but I have met plenty others) hate feminists thanks to over-reactive people like ‘NoEpiphany’, ‘TruthBeTold’, and ‘Sick of misogyny’ shoving their warped ideals down our throats and speaking out against anyone daring to argue or disagree with them as “misogynist morons.” You’re really not doing your whole cause any good and are either putting more people off or turning more against you.
Anyway, go ahead and chastise me now for condoning rape and oppression of women or whatever. For the record, I obviously don’t condone rape or the oppression of women, though that’s probably not good enough. Do I need to nail-gun my penis to my leg to make sure I never make any woman a “victim” again?
What does an attempted ass slapping look like anyway? Was he so drunk that he swung and missed? Hahaha
I get what people are saying about it being worse in other countries but be careful with that argument. I don’t think that worse off countries should be a standard by which we judge our own. We shouldn’t put up with something shitty just because it’s better here than in another country. Trying to touch a stranger in a private area is shitty regardless of gender, clothing style, or drunkenness, and people who pull that shit should be called out assholes.
*called out as assholes
I must say that I’ve enjoyed reading all your comments but now I think it’s time I clicked on The Times of London.
Cheerio!
you should have just slapped his dick and called it a night.
Willy’s?
that’s just beside pizza corner isn’t it?
where all the drunks go after the bar to chat and make out and eat and fight?
I just can’t imagine why there are jerks and idiots there….hmmmm
My buddy who lived above Pizza Corner used to call it Punch-in-the-Face corner
You can always say “NO” even if you are drunk.
I think what this bitch needs is the perspective of someone who has been raped. So I’ll stand up and take that role because I have been.
I completely understand where the OB is coming from…to a point. Yes, there is something called a rape culture. You felt this man fell into that category and according to your perception, he may have been. Essentially, the thought is that the man was trying to take the choice away from the woman by getting her so drunk she would agree to sex (as much as you can agree when you are that drunk). The problem with that is that woman need to take responsibility for their part in rape culture. If you are going to get so shit-canned that you can’t say yes or no, then there is a serious problem.
No, you don’t deserve to have your ass grabbed and yes, the comment, while funny to some, could certainly be construed as offensive, particularly to someone like me who has been forceably raped. I can see how you would be upset in that this man may not have been successful getting you drunk and having sex with you, but maybe he was successful with another girl. As ashamed and humiliated as the girl may be, she should NOT have drank that much where she got to the point where she felt her CHOICE was taken away from her. Know your limits; Set them or accept the consequences.
Ya know what? I don’t even think this happened.
The more I (READ THE GAZETTE)think about this (READ THE GAZETTE)bitch, the more I (READ THE GAZETTE) think that this was just (READ THE GAZETTE) a chance for someone to plug an (READ THE GAZETTE) article in a certain student rag.
What do you want to bet that in the next issue of The Gazette, there will be an article about “Misogyny Alive and Well on ‘The Coast'” or something like that? I have a feeling the OP is just looking for a good story, too. Stay posted!
Hey Q! Maybe she’ll interview us!
I just think that every person, man, woman, child, whatever SHOULD have a right to walk the streets without fear of assault of harassment. Call me cray, utopian, whatever, but I think people are not holding themselves to a high enough standard in this so-called “modern” society. What if that was your mother, sister, DAUGHTER.
A couple of months ago I was on SGR around 1am trying to hail a cab. I was fully dressed and eating a piece of pizza (i.e. def NOT a prostitute)while trying to flag down cab cars. Some retarded frat boy comes stumbling towards me saying “how much, how much” … while I wasn’t actually afraid of this worthless piece of shit I just found the whole incident so disrespectful and UNNECESSARY. Like, why would you do that just to make someone you’ve never met feel bad?
Get a life.
I can’t believe that some people are defending people like the OP describes, they are the ones giving men a “bad name” … why not tell them to shape up instead of telling “feminists” to calm down? The world might be a nicer place to exist in.
It is ok, hellakitty because we live in a Child Abuse society. Do you like being described as a criminal? You’re as guilty as everyone else, so I hope you don’t have kids.
im all for equality, thats why i was shocked when the 50 something woman one night at a bar rammed her ham hock hand down my pants and to make me feel at ease said “dont worry hunny, im just checking your package!!” like fuck…she had dolly parton hair and was in a full body, gold neoprene catsuit….shudder. I especially loved hearing some drunk cunt at a well known pizza shop telling the guys making her slice that they are only working in this city because she pays their wages…..i looooooove drunk cunts like that lol…really helps womens lib and rights when they behave like that. but then again women really arent much different than men….except for TTFNs massive cans 😀 god bless her for that(and im agnostic)
Oh oh, Cuja, you just dropped the C-bomb TWICE! Careful, you’ll give our poor temp mod a heart attack.
Post deleted in 5… 4… 3…
“”Trying to touch a stranger in a private area “‘
That’s what you call patting someone on the ass? See, this is what’s wrong with society. Sure, it’s no longer 1955 and “spanking” your waitress as she totters off in her bunny suit is passé…but to describe it as “trying to touch a stranger in a private area”?!
There’s so much exageration and over-reaction to every little slight, real or percieved.
Ewww. That’s what Japanese men do on the subway. Or the French with their ‘frottage’, or the three-legged Bishop at the Boy Scout picnic….
…you’re wayyyy over the top with that one IMO.