I just wanted to say I hear a LOT of guys (mostly younger, college aged guys) complaining about the “trashy” or “slutty” looking girls they see when they go downtown. It sickens me to hear these morons talk.
First of all, you’re at a dance club downtown in a university city, there are going to be young women there and yes, they are going to dress in a suggestive manner. I’m not saying I like to see women without modesty or self-control but if you don’t like it, don’t go there. Don’t talk about them like they’re aren’t even human. And newsflash! They’re not getting dressed up for your worthless approval you hate-filled, skeezy losers.
Secondly, women have the choice to wear what they want. Again, not condoning wearing revealing attire in public places but as long as it’s not hurting anybody then it’s none of your fucking business. People don’t care about your opinion. People are just out doing their thing, trying to have fun, trying to let go of stress or whatever. You know nothing about their lives.
Third, if you insist on being an ass and going down to a pub solely for the purpose of cruelly mocking these girls with your crew of idiots, like it makes you a ‘big man’ then why the FUCK do you go home with one!!? Huh?! What does that say about you???
God, I cannot stomach the way men treat women sometimes, like you think everyone’s so desperate for your approval. Get over yourself, they’re not trying to bother anybody so just head back to your mother’s basement where you jack off to Warcraft in your disgusting, tear-stained mattress. —Fed Up With A-Holes
This article appears in Mar 1-7, 2012.
Ah, yes OP.
Live and let live, right.
“no one cares about your opinion” um apparently somebody does.
You act like women don’t do the exact same thing to men. I think YOU shoould get over YOURself.
Haters are gonna hate, that’s what they do. Why let it bother you so much?
“You act like women don’t do the exact same thing to men.” Or to other women.
Hay Donk, you doin’ Strike Fest next week?
Also: why do you hate women so much, Thomas? 🙁
“God, I cannot stomach the way men treat women sometimes”…
Almost as bad as the way some young women treat themselves…
Bars that cater to the lowest common denominator boast two phenomena. Women who dress whorey and men who act like pigs.
In essence you’re saying the men who act like pigs have no right to be idiots but the women who dress whorey do.
BOTH phenomena exist op. If it bothers you so much, why not ditch the kindergarteners and hit a more high-brow scene?
Stop portraying women in bars as victims. I used to go to bars back in the day and if some hairy bag made some nasty crack, I gave him enough verbal shrapnel to make his cheesie dick retreat into his bung hole.
What does that say about him? Plenty. He’s looking for a quick lay so he’s following the trail of advertisements that promise one.
A better question is what does that say about her?
“Hay Donk, you doin’ Strike Fest next week?”
Gurrrrrl don’t even play (and then the “ghetto” came out …)
You know I am PK.
I even gots me a nice inside source getting lanyards before they inevitably sell out …
… only thing I’m not too into is posting the house numbers on FB … … I feel like that was silly. I’m not quite sure how else they’d get the info to ppl … maybe a mass inbox on Mon. 12th but with the rate this thing’s growing … it seems headed for trouble …
http://dalgazette.com/featured/behind-the-…
First person who says it’s this chick’s own fault gets my foot up their ass and my fist in their mouth.
Yeah. 5 kegs at one guy’s house? HAHAHAHAHAHA.
He’s SO gonna get his shit all fucked up.
They could’ve given the house numbers out when they sold the lanyards.
Take pics of the damage for me, Donk!
“a LOT of guys (mostly younger, college aged guys) “
since when has this demographic been considered MEN?
they’ve barely stopped the horrific puberty days…
those aren’t men.. they’re kids in a man’s body.
talking to one for more than 5 minutes makes that glaringly apparent…
of course, then you would have to actually talk with them instead of just grinding all up on that and rolling the dice at an STI
“They could’ve given the house numbers out when they sold the lanyards.” AHH good thought!
… but yes I can see the cops getting called on the house ones for sure. The attendees list is prob already up to 700 … then there’s 100+ maybes and 800+ invited … and that’s all happened in 1 day … I watched when they launched Sun. night with 10 confirmed …
If it all goes “well” … then photo evidence I shall try to provide.
I was thinking about partaking, but… I don’t think I’m allowed to call in to work ‘hungover.’
🙁
Well … it’s official … profs are signing up for picket duty …
http://dalgazette.com/featured/behind-the-…
First person who says it’s this chick’s own fault gets my foot up their ass and my fist in their mouth.
——————————————————————————————–
how is this not half her fault??? 2 drunken idiots kissing and groping in a bar….. he takes her to a secluded place where everyone knows what happens…. and then even asks permission to take off the condom….. if he was raping her why would he even ask??
take some personal responsibility for your own actions, she was dumb…. got into a situation where she did something she wishes she hadn’t and now people want to say she was “raped”.
If i walked though Halifax with $100 bills taped to my jacket late at night, do i then have the right to claim to be just an innocent victim when i get jumped and robbed?
I love women PK.. kitties on the other hand..
Just kidding, what does really grind my gears is when people seem to hold one gender of people to a higher or different standard than the other. That’s what I feel like OP is doing with this bitch. She must have selective hearing or something.
I’ve noticed that the general attitude amongst women when I go to a night club is “every guy in here is a dog” I can’t say I really blame them, and would never go as far as to write a bitch about how stuck up women are or whatever. It’s a nightclub, douchey behaviour shoould be expected.
People need to stop generalizing based on gender. Being a mean judgemental douche who puts others down to make themselves feel big is not a man thing or a woman thing, it’s a dirtbag thing. Who cares what some drunk stranger at a bar thinks?
ATTENTION; agent 195 http://thechronicleherald.ca/artslife/7062…
NO ONE deserves to get raped or otherwise sexually assaulted, brindi no matter WHAT they do.
Instead of telling women “don’t go out and get raped” we should be telling men “don’t go out and rape.”
I get what you’re saying, Thomas, but sometimes it’s not about evening up the playing field. Sometimes a lady just wants to bitch about men without having to consider the other side of the coin. It’s irrational, but from our point of view, sometimes we just wanna say “guys suck.”
You have every right to do the same about women, but just let the ladies vent a lil. You guys can be awfully cruel to us when you wanna be. Not saying women can’t be cruel to men, but that doesn’t change the fact that y’all can be really really mean! 🙁
PS: I’m almost certain, Brindi, you know someone who’s been sexually assaulted. It’s hard to find someone who doesn’t know someone who’s been assaulted. You likely won’t know about it, but it doesn’t change the fact that it happened/happens. 90% of cases are estimated to be not reported to authorities.
In my circle of friends I know of 6 women, who, according to the criminal code of Canada, have been sexually assaulted, and I didn’t include myself in that number. None of us reported the incidents.
chicken…
bawk bawk bawk….
I already knew that, PG, but thanks for thinking of me. 😛
Yeah, I know PK, and you know what? This bitch doesn’t really generalize all men, I just wish it wasn’t male specific, maybe OP hasn’t heard the other side of the coin, but people of both genders are more than capable of being POSs, to members of the same sex as well as the opposite.
My question, in regards to the assault thing PK is why not? If I was ever assaulted I would press charges or more likely try to handle it myself.
I know that there are societal challenges but fuck that, someone violates me I don’t care what other people might think. People not coming forward contributes to the problem.
The woman in that article doesn’t even seem sure if she was assaulted or not. What does that tell you? I mean if you ask me if someone took advantage of me or forced me to do something I didn’t want to do, I will be able to give you a definite yes or no answer.
If she really feels victimized she should PRESS CHARGES! Doesn’t it occur to her that she probably wasn’t the first woman and if she doesn’t do something she won’t be the last? Either he did or didn’t have her consent.
yea all you doods ..the biotches be dress’n like ho’s for admiring ,not for diss’n yo!
Hey now cookerguy, the only B word you should call a woman is beautiful. Bitches love being called beautiful.
lol kidding! carry on
im talking about that one specific case you pointed to…. i know many women who have been raped/assaulted. in fact i find it rarer that i meet a woman who hasn’t been forced against her will, and that’s truly a sad reflection on us.
that being said…. in this specific case…. it sounds like they were both drunk…. both all over each other and in hindsight she got herself in a situation she wishes she hadn’t. ie good girl bent over in a bar takin it “like a slut”. and now she is upset that HE didn’t have the self control to stop. Well in this one situation…. it sounds to me like they both made mistakes. you cant say on the one hand that im allowed to drink and lose control of myself, while still expecting the drunk guy im with to stay in control himself.
‘Oops, I didn’t mean to call you Ho, Bitch’ – Grand Poobah, Brand Nubian.
I think the thing is, Thomas, is that when it happens you figure it’s your fault. I know I did. Or you think you deserved it. Or, to try to deal with it you think “nah, it couldn’t be assault, I’m just over reacting,” because women are constantly being told they’re over reacting. We may live in a more gender-equal society, but honestly, women still get the brush off.
And 80-90% of sexual assaults are committed by someone you know. A boyfriend, fuck buddy, friend, etc…. And sometimes, while you’re trying to rationalize things and being all “oh I’m just overreacting — it wasn’t a big deal” you may still engage in a sexual relationship with the person who assaulted you.
But that doesn’t mean you don’t feel violated.
I didn’t even categorize my experience as an assault until I talked to a friend about how awful I felt about it. She told me to read up on the laws. It took me a long time after that, even, to accept it for what it was. What’s the point of filing charges after that? Especially when all you’re going to get is a he-said-she-said situation… and since there was consent at other points in the relationship, there’s no actual evidence to support any sort of conviction. Why go through all that just to have very personal information shared with others?
“She never gave consent. Regardless, the fact that she was drunk made it impossible for her to give consent.”
This is from the article PK posted.
It’s statements like this that really piss me off. Sexual assault pisses me off too, and douchebags that take advantage of women deserve what they get (possibly more). I don’t know if the legal system recognizes this as law, or is this just poor journalism? Either way, I’ve had consentual sex with drunk women, does this make me a rapist?
I guess I just would like a more clear definition. I don’t understand how it can take so long to figure out if you were or weren’t a victim of a crime like that, and probably never will. I’ll chalk it up to being male I guess.
Do you think the perp that did this to you deserves a rape conviction on his record? At least a good knee-capping? Just let me know 😉
what would Assange do?
oh ya,
RUN LIKE A BAT OUTTA HELL!
No one wants to live with the fact that they’ve been assaulted, Thomas. Call it a coping mechanism, but it’s easier to forget and minimize what happened to you rather than admit to being violated. It’s really not uncommon for sexual assault victims to question whether or not they were actually assaulted and it’s easy to play the blame-game on yourself — especially if we live in a culture of blame. The first thing you hear is “she shouldn’t have *insert behaviour here that obviously is responsible for her getting raped.*” It’s never the rapist’s fault, it’s always up to the innocent victim to ‘not get raped.’ It’s fucked up.
And yes, this POS probably does deserve a rape conviction (or three or four). This wasn’t the first or last time he pulled something like that on a partner (he only did it to me once).
In any event, this was years past, and I’m over it, but when I hear stories from friends or stories like this in the paper, it really REALLY pisses me off, but at the same time I hope that it helps other women who are going through an experience like this to know they’re not alone and it’s not their fault by someone who’s been there.
look up in the sky, is it a bird, a plane, a meteor, no, it’s the suckster on the prowl.
Yeah SHITD, basically having sex with a drunk person could very well make you a rapist in the eyes of the law. I don’t agree with it either. There’s a huge difference between being forced and making a decision you regret.
Anyways I stay relatively sober when I go out now, I advise you all do the same. You wanna get outta control shit faced, i-wont-remember-this-tomorrow drunk, do it in a safe familiar place with safe familiar people. When you’re shit faced drunk making out with a guy you just met on the dancefloor grinding on his dick and stuff, that sends a certain message.
That being said, it’s happened to me before and at the end of the night the girl said “ok I’m going home with my friends, see ya arouund” I didn’t start trying to pressure or force anything. That’s not cool either.
Before the naked hugs start I need written consent, a verbal yes or perhaps some other form of verbal consent….things such as:
“Drop them pants and tickle my elmo”
“Meat injection for one please!”
“I want it lizard style”
“Show me where the wild goose goes”
“You up for the no-pants dance?”
“Lets hop on the good foot and do the bad thing”
“I shaved your name down there….spell check it for me”
“dick goes where?”
“Give me the meat shiv”
“I’m going to slay your one eye’d monster”
If she is naked and says any of those things without laughing….that my friends is consent in my book.
All joking aside….rape is bad, Grapes are good, and rapping is a legit art form.
a drunken knee trembler, in a bar, should be a wake up call
Everybody:
Maybe if the guy is a known perv, the club should have some cameras and maybe close off the rape closet.
Cookerguy: the thing that sucks about the restaurant business is, if you weren’t an asshole when you started, it turns you into one.
SHIDEVIL: you didn’t have consensual sex with someone who couldn’t consent. Yes, it was rape.
Tommy: Sorry, but your comments on this thread are making you sound like someone you’re not: a douche. Just like birth control is not harder on the guy, sexual assault occurs 99.9999999% to women or children from men, so it’s not a parity issue, OK? Rape is an act of violence.
OB: say, gf, I say set this guy up with a different woman and cameras and the lot. Bust his ass but good. He must be connected to be getting away with it. Take the little pisher down.
hmmmph..you just raped my feelings X-gal 🙁
“Bitches love being called beautiful.” Looooooooooooooooools
Sorry, cookerguy, but that was my first career…it’s the nature of the business…you’re dealing with a perishable product. (How does that make you an asshole? Well, say you buy a case of lobster for xx dollars. then one in the case dies. Suddenly your cost per pound goes way up.) I did things when I was a restaurant mgr. that I am not proud of today—you may have it a little easier in institutional food service, (and I hope you do) but it is hard to stay a nice guy in the restaurant biz.
Xeno, I know you’re a teacher and a feminist but try to talk to me like an I’m an adult please. “Rape is an act of violence” No, really? Thanks for filling me in. I was completely unaware.
I don’t like how the minute someone starts asking questions about a sensitive topic they’re some kind of jerk. I think rapists are the scum of the earth and don’t believe that their victims are at any way at fault, ok? Just want to put that out there.
I guess I just would appreciate a more definite line when it comes to what is and isn’t an assault and what falls under “I fucked this guy drunk and now that I’m sober I feel like shit about it, I’m not going forward with the charges, but he raped me I tell ya, I had no part in it whatsoever, I was too drunk to know better” and I also think people who falsely cry rape are scum. I know two guys who were falsely accused. One had charges filed against him. Yes I’m sure they didn’t do it, I’d put my life on it. One instance no sex had taken place, the girl fabricated a completely fictional story, so it wasn’t a question of whether or not it was consensual.
What I have a problem with is again, holding one party to a higher standard than the other.
I also find it hypocritical to not go forward, and to me it means it either really wasn’t an assault or that they’d rather do the easy thing than the right thing. According to this:
http://www.sexassault.ca/statistics.htm
Only 6% of victims come forward. Tell me what I gotta do to make more victims come forward, I’ll do it, but it’s ultimately their decision and theirs alone.
I hear what PK is saying 100% about how difficult and personal and sometimes pointless it can be to come forward, but she says she has 6 friends who have been victimized, and she said that the guy who assaulted her has done it to other women? I’m sorry but you can only say “it’s society’s fault” for so long before you pick up a phone and call the cops. They do take that shit seriously.
What are we supposed to do about it? If such a small percentage of people come forward, what is anyone supposed to do about it? That’s my question Xeno. I’m all for focusing on the criminal, you can lock rapists up for life for all I care, but I think we need to figure out how to make waay more victims come forward and no one can do it for them!
Am I victim blaming? No, it’s not your fault that it happened to you, but if that same scumbag goes and continues to assault and victimize people, are you not partially to blame?
Even if you can’t get charges to stick, they’re still charges. At least his reputation takes a hit.
I might sound like a douche but I’m being honest and asking honest questions. I also acknowledge that I am no expert on anything and I MAY BE WAY OFF BASE OR WRONG, try and do the same, will you?
Cheers
it’s cool x…and; yea know what; I’ve had every vice known to man?…but in my mind the only time i’ve been an a-hole is to myself..and boy what an ass-hole I WAS :)..ps: my dad was a HS teach…he had his moments ..
ps: an english/latin teacher…this acorn fell far away …
Going through hell just so that some guy can go to jail for like a year or something stupid isn’t worth it. When he gets out, some chick will fall for him regardless and he’ll do it again. Some guy having a bad reputation brings zero comfort. I don’t know why any girl would go the legal route when you have people blaming you for what happened or taking “too long” to come forward. Plus you have the dirtbag’s friends to deal with who feel you lied or are just some skank who regretted having sex with them. Are you supposed to sue all of them individually for harassment too? There must be something to it if only about 10% of women go to the police. It’s probably for much different reasons other than being too lazy to operate a phone or walk to the police station.
I realy believe someone, anyone, female that is, should have pity on old SUCKS. Maybe he is one of the horniest fuckers on this planet, and you just never know, you girls might even get to like it. Go for SUCKSTER.
Wow, that behind the curtain article was appalling! That guy deserved a swift kick in the nuts with a pointy pump.
Sorry, Tommy, didn’t mean to sound condescending.
Cookerguy: Just you wait! My mum was a hs English teacher—I said I’d never teach, but teaching was my third career. Never say never! (PS: I got 14 weeks vacation/year)
These things, as black and white as we’d like them to be are never so easy.
Realization rarely happens right after … especially when it’s someone you know/knew and trust. Most sexual assaults are done by people you know, they build a perfect image of themselves. After the event you think, this is wrong, and bad, but this person has been so good to me. There is an element of brainwashing (if you want to call it that), a subjugation of the victim that sadly doesn’t end post attack whether that be say facing your attacker in a family situation etc. or imposing those thoughts on yourself …
Now, as TTFN pointed out, women can say no, but I’m noticing a whole generation of soft easily rail roaded women (not all, but a good quantity). I even see that manifesting in some friends of mine. I almost think sometimes it’s from all the images being projected by media etc … or a lack of education at home.
EXACTLY, Mel.
EXACTLY.
And that’s the worst that can happen to them, Mel. Unless there’s extraordinary evidence, they won’t even be convicted (that’s even if they’re charged — you have to have enough evidence and a “so and so forced me to have sex against my will” probably isn’t going to cut it).
No one wants to believe they’re friends with someone capable of sexual assault, so it’s pretty likely the accuser gets called a ho, slut, liar by the accused’s friends and family.
Plus, 80-90% of women know their attacker — many have consensual sexual relationships with them at one point… you can’t bring up the sexual history of the accuser, but if it’s a sexual relationship with the accused you sure can, and I’m not about to sit in court with a bunch of strangers, friends of the accused, family of the accused, my friends and family and discuss my sexual relationship with someone in a ‘she said/he said’ case.
In any event, like I’ve mentioned, I’m over it, and I’m actually quite indifferent at this point over the entire situation. What DOES piss me off, though is when women who have been assaulted are brushed off and blamed like it’s their own fault and then made to feel like they’re doing something wrong by dealing with a very personal thing their own way.
I don’t typically talk about any of this, but the topic was screaming for someone to say something. The only people I’ll ever open up to are other women who have opened up to me. Otherwise, people can fuck off and mind their own business.
ASYMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS
Perhaps there’s a connection between Fed-Up’s bitch about guys in the bar “cruelly mocking these girls” and Jane, the 23 year-old student assaulted in a Halifax bar, maybe the same one. Perhaps the guys, albeit immaturely, were taking out their resentment over the asymmetrical gender relations in those bars. Perhaps Jane’s story is itself an instance of those asymmetrical gender relations.
Jane goes to a bar in Halifax, knowing that this is an environment where hormonally-charged young women meet hormonally-charged young men, where alcohol in large qualtities is consumed, and where there is no supervision this side of violent behaviour. Jane goes into the bar.
It started with dancing, she explains. Then kissing, then she accompanied him downstars where she went with him behind a curtain. Hmm, I womnder what was going on. Then, magically, “her pants were down.” She refused his request to remove his condom. Then it was over.
Jane did not report the incident to the police. It happens all the time she was told by the bar staff. Further, Jane is experiencing self-doubt about her role in the matter. “I am still experiencing a lot of self-blame,” she reports.
But it is the female, for better or worse, who controls the “action” in gender relations. “No means no,” and all that. But at what point does her control – some might call it manipulation – end? She was probably drunk but probably so was he which would seem to rule that out as a determining factor. But is her, “No means no” still in force? What about when she goes behind the curtain? Is it still in force? What about when her pants are down? What about when the tip of his penis is within three (two?) inches of her vagina? Is her “No means no!” still operative? In other words, is her control absolute? Are asymmetrical gender relations which discount the male (the pig?) set in stone? Maybe that’s why the guys mocking the girls in the bar were resentful. It was their way of protesting asymmetrical gender relations.
Jane was a master’s student at Dalhousie but it didn’t say in what. I’m guessing Personnel Management.
A pleasure as awlays.
Cheerio!
Awwww man. I don’t like this topic … because I’m seeing from the male perspective as well as the female and dang …
A couple years ago, an ex-boyfriend contacted me out of the blue and started harassing me, like he’s done so well before. I went to the police that same day and was told to call a certain department and tell them my story and they would send an officer out to me. So, I call the number in tears, hyperventilating, trying to get the words out and all I get from the bitch on the other end is “why are you crying? This doesn’t seem like a big deal.. you haven’t talked to this guy in years and he just started contacting you today, why is this a bid deal” Like, for real. The fact that he has come to where I used to live before, absolutely hammered and screaming outside until my dad has to go outside and scare him away wasn’t relevant to this woman because no physical harm came to me. This douche has a bunch of pedophiles (one was actually convicted) as friends and put me through such an emotional wringer, I had the right never to talk to this person again. But because of the dismissive attitude from this woman who is supposed to be working for the god damn police, I was completely discouraged and thought maybe I was making a huge deal out of nothing. She reluctantly sent out an officer.
The officer showed up and I asked her what the dispatcher told her. “Nothing” she said. What the HELL were all those questions and judgements for if they weren’t going to relay any of my story to the officer? I had to tell the officer everything all over again and thank god she actually fucking cared and when I said, “Maybe this isn’t a big deal” she said “Of course it is! This is harassment!”
Ernest Fenwick MacIntosh gets off absolutely free (but with a bad reputation, so what?) from possibly molesting a bunch of kids because the prosecution couldn’t get their shit together enough to actively pursue this fucker. SO WHY should anyone ever trust the legal process??? This kind of thing happens more than you think. It seems like a lot of crap to go through for very little in return, if you get any sort of return.
Xeno, that was a rhetorical question, but, since you answered it I think I owe you my answer.
It’s feminist attitudes like yours that push the womans movement back by decades. By saying that because a woman is intoxicated she is not legally, morally, or personally able to make a decision, you are taking away her right to own responsibility for her actions. Part of equality is to take responsibility for your actions, no matter want they are, if you (as the spokeswoman for womankind) are not ready for this type of responsibility, that in itself is a sad circumstance. By your stance, I raped my wife on Saturday evening, as a half bottle of wine would surely intoxicate her beyond responsible decision making.
I’m assuming that the level of intoxication for decision making would follow the same rules as driving while impaired. So if any man has had sex with a woman who is above a .05% alcohol level, he is a rapist. How does it feel to be married to a rapist, Xeno? Does this only go one way Xeno? What about if you had sex with your husband while he was “intoxicated”? I guess that would make you a rapist too. Don’t discount this by saying “we’re married”, as there is spousal rape, and most rapes are committed by someone close to and trusted by the victim.
What about if a married man is out drinking, a woman keeps hitting on him. He makes it plainly clear that he is married and not interested, she waits around until he is “too intoxicated to make a conscious decision”, she leads him to her place and has sex with him. Is that still the mans fault? By your admission, no it’s not. He was raped, and should not be held responsible for his decision. Good luck explaining that to his wife.
What if too equally inotxicated people have sex? Have they both been raped? See where this is going Xeno? You can’t have a double standard where “responsibility” is concerned. The fact is that poor decisions, made while intoxicated, put you in places and situations you might not find yourself if not intoxicated, but to exonerate an entire sex from any and all responsibility while placing sole responsibility at the feet of an equally intoxicated member of the opposite sex, is gender bias.
Rape is real, there is no argument from me on that point. I believe it’s disgusting, unconscionable and is not to be tolerated in any situation, and those responsible deserve much harsher sentences than they receive. I firmly believe that it everyones responsibility to keep their wits about them, and because of a bad decision made while intoxicated cannot be an excuse (it can’t be used in any other case, holding people criminally responsible for their poor decisions). In the case of this woman in the article, she deserves to take some responsibility for what happened. She took it upon herself to drink irresponsibly, meet someone, make out with him, allowed herself to be separated from friends, and allowed him to lead her from a very public forum to a dark corner. All poor decisions. He is 100% responsible for misunderstanding advances, preying on someone who is not in control, and raping this woman. I am not defending him in any way, don’t pull bullshit semantics to “prove” something I don’t condone. But, if she had drunk responsibly, she never would have been put in this situation.
I also don’t like the accusing tone you used with myself and TJ. All you think you know about me you “learned” from an anonymous web forum, and accusing me of being a rapist is just plain fucking rude. Take your self righteous attitude and jam it!!!
I love all these “rape is disgusting, BUT” arguments coming from some men up in here. I’m with donk — I’m pretty saddened by some of the male perspectives in this thread.
Point *is* the criminal code of canada says that intoxicated people can’t consent to sex. They also can’t sign legal documents. That’s why they tell you to lay off the champagne before getting married: because you can’t sign the registry papers if you have. You also can’t testify in court. THat’s just the nature of the beast. If you don’t like it, don’t fuck someone who’s drunk.
Also: shitty-d — you seem to have this persecution complex goin’ on, bud. No one can look at you sideways without you getting your panties in a bunch. I don’t agree or disagree with what xeno said, but you really need to loosen up your asshole a little bit — it’s starting to make you constipated.
No PK, read her post. She basically called me a rapist, and nothing could be farther from the truth. You seem to be able to spit fire at people here who wrongly put words in your mouth, and attack your character. A little more hypocrisy from our house hypocrite, me thinks.
PK … didn’t really mean I was saddened by their perspectives just that I see their point … and agree with SOME of it. Labelling people who have sex with drunk people seems like a bit of a stretch to me … however there are degrees of drunk … there’s the oops I’m making questionable decisions hehehe drunk and the I legit cannot function and any attempts to give consent are well futile. As to which the lady in the post was, we don’t really know. We know she had a lot to drink, but … was it just a lot … or was it A LOT … perhaps she has to figure that out for herself, in terms of did I just make a bad decision I regret or was I really actually incapable of saying no.
… believe me when I say … … I understand where you ladies are coming from. *insert corny little group hug here, even for SHITYD*
Does ANY rapist self identify as being a rapist, though, SHITTY-D?
According to the criminal code of canada, someone is unable to consent to sex if they are intoxicated. Therefore if you have sex with someone who is drunk it is impossible to have their legal consent. Without consent = rape. Therefore, legally, you did commit rape. If you were also drunk the other party raped you. I know you nor they probably self identify as someone who was sexually assaulted, but you were nonetheless.
BTW: love the “I’m rubber and you’re glue” argument.
Ya big baby.
Yeah, I hear ya, Donk. I’ve had sex while drunk and I would classify that as anything but rape.
Go Jam Yourself, ShiDevil
1. When did you ever indicate that this was rhetorical or hypothetical? You said “I’ve had consentual sex with drunk women, does this make me a rapist?” You did not say “If I had” or anything else to indicate that you were not making a declarative statement.
I replied: “you didn’t have consensual sex with someone who couldn’t consent. Yes, it was rape.”
2. Don’t think you can rape a man in the way you suggest if he were unconscious
3. and by the way, being drunk or under the influence of drugs does absolve one of contracts signed while in that state of intoxication (including marriage)
I think its pretty easy to tell where the line is drawn when it comes to intoxication and the ability to consent. If someone is slurring, staggering, incoherent, passed out – they are obviously not able to consent. A couple glasses of wine with your wife, I think is another story. In this particular incident (behind the dark curtain), the dancing was fine, the kissing was also consentual, but when this idiot chose to remove her pants in the bar, despite her protests – that’s when the sexual assault occurred.
Well I for one take offense to that Xeno. And the question I’m asking myself is that if two drunk persons engage in an act, why is one party the victim and the other the criminal? They both made a mistake, why should one be able to point the finger at the other?
Here’s the other thing.
I am just having trouble wrapping my head around this.
Only 6% of victims come forward.
How are we supposed to do anything about it if the crime isn’t reported? I’d like someone to tackle that please. On one hand you want to go on and on about how horrible a crime it is, and I wholeheartedly agree, then on the other hand you say it’s not worth it to come forward becuase it’s a very difficult thing to do, and it likely won’t result in anything.
Try telling that to people serving time for sexual assault right now. Tell that to eople who have to register as sex offenders. People do go to jail and have the rapist label put on them for life as a result of committing these crimes. People ARE brought to justice.
Even if coming forward and pressing charges on someone doesn’t deliver results, I believe that it’s better than doing nothing about it. I understand that it’s a really really really really tough go. I understand that no one wants to tell a bunch of strangers about such a traumatic experience, but I think it’s the right.. thing… to.. do.. Am I a victim blaming asswad for thinking that? That criminals should be brought to justice and that crimes should be reported?
If crimes aren’t reported, they can’t be investigated, is that not an indisputable fact?
I looked up sentences for sexual assault last night, depending on circumstances, prior history and other factors a conviction will get you anywhere from 18 months to 10 years. You would also have to register as a sex offender. Is that not better than nothing? I agree that 18 months is pretty weak to say the least. I am all for increasing mandatory sentences, but that does jack if people continue to let these crimes go unreported.
What can we do to to curb this problem? Because it seems like we are doing a really shitty job. 6% reported makes my skin crawl. Could you imagine if only 6% of murders were reported?
Tell me what I can do, besides continue to not assault people, to help curb sexual violence.
Xeno — don’t worry about it — SHITTY-D is just a big baby who gets offended every time someone mentions his name. He probably’s required to wear a helmet everywhere he goes with the most intelligible thing he can come up with as a ‘come back’ being “I’m not stupid, YOU’RE stupid, stupid!”
And right on, No Fool.
I also think those of you going on about double-standards need to also recognize where that double-standard comes from. How often do you hear about Female Rapists? Hardly ever. Female sex offenders are a very rare thing. If I am walking down a dark vacant street and I hear footsteps behind me and look back and see its a man, I may quicken my steps or change sides of the street. If its a woman, I would not be concerned at all. I’m not saying women never commit these crimes, I’m saying its extremely rare. Also, the size and strength differences of men and women are also a factor in this double-standard. Most men can overtake a woman by shear brute force. And when you are a victim, being held down and molested by someone stronger than you, that makes you feel real weak. Also intimidated and scared. A lot of the time these victims will seek advice from friends, family and authorities and they do not get the support they need. After you are victimized you feel very powerless and fearful. Many would get the help they deserve and file a report, if the people they reach out to would support them in doing so, during this very confusing time.
Tommy—what did I write that offended you?
“that’s even if they’re charged — you have to have enough evidence and a “so and so forced me to have sex against my will” probably isn’t going to cut it”
It most certainly is, PK.
But I guess you woulnd’t know that because no one you know who was victimized ever bothered to even look into pressing charges.
Saying the words “he raped me” really is enough for the cops to come to your home and arrest and yes, charge you. They won’t ask for your side of the story either.
I know this because my best friend was falsely accused. No evidence, no witnesses, one phone call and the cops came and picked him up. He absolutely positively did not do it, as a matter of fact she tried to force herself and him and when he declined she responded by filing these false charges. She later admitted to it.
Just continue to not assault people Tommy, that’s all you can do. People who assault people will not magically stop after coming out of jail. Going through the legal process should be a no-brainer. But for some reason it’s the least popular option chosen by victims. Maybe you could be a victim advocate if you want to help people come forward :P. But I think you’ll need some training first…
You called Stevie a rapist for having sex with his wife while drunk! You don’t think that’s a little extreme?
You rub me the wrong way sometimes because you son’t ever seem to be wrong, or acklowledge the possiblity that there are different ways to look at things. I really don’t believe that someone can be so black and white about shit. Sex with drunk person = rape? 100% of the time? You’re telling me you and Aesop never got drunk and had sex? Regardless I don’t appreciate being labeled a violent abhorrent criminal for having engaged in drunken sex and I don’t like how you imply that it’s strictly my responsibilty to control myself while absolving the other participant of any responsibity for their acitions. It’s sexist as far as I’m concerned and promotes the idea that women and men are not equal, or shouldn’t be held equally responsible for their actions.
See where I’m coming from at all?
Fair enough Mel. Those stats sickened me.
Most people are not filing charges because of a drunken regret. It’s not like a rampant thing. I definitely wouldn’t say that drunk sex = rape. It’s just how far our laws have had to come to protect people.
“MYTH: Sexual assault is a commonly false-reported crime
FACT: Most statistics show approximately 2% or less of sexual assaults reported as false reports”
It is scary that having sex with someone while they’re drunk can fuck you over, but statistics suggest that people lying about it to the police isn’t happening left and right. If it were, something would be done about it. I’ve never felt like I was assaulted after drunk sex. I’ve never even had sex I regretted and wouldn’t even think of charging any boy if I did regret it, most people wouldn’t.
When you have something intelligent to say PK, by all means write back. Calling me a “big baby” is just too childish for words. Seriously, what are you 8 years old? I took offence to the wording and tone of Xenos comment, and told her as much. After you pointed out that you have some issues with how I conduct myself, I pointed out the hypocracy in your statement, nothing more. Hell I was pissed off at being told I am a rapist, but thats ok right? There was no “I’m rubber, you’re glue” or “you’re stupid” comments. Perhaps you need some reading comprehension classes, or, maybe just shut the fuck up when something doesn’t concern you.
This has been a fun thread/comments to read.
First I don’t for one second believe what happened to that girl was rape.
Was it wrong…possibly.
But when 2 drunk people are on a dance floor grinding & bopping away, sucking face & feeling each other up, then they take it downstairs & she went willingly, he didn’t force her, jump her or wait for her to pass out…no these 2 drunken fools went in behind a curtain or a private area & suddenly your fucking.
That ain’t rape, that’s fucked up & Stupid…Yeah that’s near the top of the STUPID METER…but it ain’t rape.
You see if she can’t consent because she is drunk…He can’t consent because….. come on you can do it >>>>>> he is drunk also!
What’s good for the Goose girls & boys is good for the Gander.
Maybe just maybe she shouldn’t have taken her drunken ass down to an out of the way spot with a guy who has been sticking his tongue down her throat on a dance floor.
What do any of you think was going to happen in a private area ?
A pinochle game was going to break out ?
If you believe so
Give your fucking head a shake…that rattling sound is the small ice cube occupying the spot your BRAIN is supposed to be in!
Of course Mel, I hope you don’t think I was implying otherwise.
I feel like we should stop using words and phrases like “the tone you used with me”. This is after all a bitch board and the only tone you’re hearing is the one in your head. I’ve been misunderstood before on these boards and know that it’s probably happening to a few here …
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2MQNrOlyWLU/TsTS…
There you go again, SHITTY-D — getting your panties stuck up your tight asshole.
I suppose I’d be cranky too if my asshole was permanently clenched and I had panties stuck up in there.
And tommy — it may get them picked up, but you can’t charge someone without actual evidence. And if you have no actual evidence you’re not going to get a conviction. He said-she said cases aren’t enough to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
I refuse to believe I did anything wrong by not reporting a sexual assault. I refuse to believe any of my friends did anything wrong by not reporting their assaults. And I refuse to believe that any justification is owed to anyone regarding these very personal decisions. I also wish I hadn’t even brought it up because feeling like I have to defend myself is kind of pissing me off. If people aren’t asking sexual assault victims what they did to get themselves raped, they’re persecuting them for not taking “acceptable” action, which pretty much has me fighting back tears at this point. So great job, guys.
MMMMMMMmmmmmmmm, I loves me some panties in ma bum. Sooooo soft and sooooooooo rough at the same time. If they slip out, I pokes’em back in there with ma finga!!! Wanna sniff ma finga PK?
I call you a violent abhorrent criminal?
Steve was referring to his wife?
I apologized, Tommy for sounding condescending last night. But in rereading your first post on the subject, I think I would respond similarly, if with more tact.
Frankly, the story about your best friend sounds a little suspect, more like an urban legend. HOWEVER, I am willing to concede that the way you describe is within the realm of possibility. That DOES NOT men that sexual assault is committed equally by men and women. Jeesh! and you say I look at things too black and white!
and as far as absolving one gender, I know if you don’t that alcohol “increaseth the desire, but taketh away from the performance” in the male genitalia department, whereas a woman could be totally unconscious and yet have carnal knowledge.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER REALTIONS (II)
It is interesting to review some of the comments about Jane, the 23 year-old Dalhoisie student, who claims that she was raped in a Halifax bar but brought no charges. The issue is, if both participants are drunk, why is it that it is the male (the pig) who is blamed? Does Jane have no role? Judging by the article in the Dalhousie Gazette, it seems not. She is suffering – she blames herself in an abstract way – but is still the innocent party. Is this an example of “asymmetrical gender relations” at work? One wonders. Let’s look at some of the comments:
: Depeche Mel (March 7, 10:31AM) – An easy one. Harrassing is not raping.
: STHITD (10:46AM) – “..she leads him to her place and has sex with him. Is that the man’s fault?” Well, yes Stephen, under the rules of “Assymmetrical Gender Relations,” it is. Sorry about that.
: PK (11:01AM) – “I’m pretty saddened by some of the male perspectives on this thread.” Is that right, PK. Are you “saddened?” Talk to us about it. Let us hear your egotistical effusions. “Point *is* the criminal code of Canada says that intoxicated people can’t consent to sex.” (Repeated 11:53AM) Do you see the word “people” there, PK? I guess that doesn’t include males in your female “perspective,” does it. Am I right? And skip your hysterical “ad hominem” attack on Stephen.
: Xenophilia (11:51AM) – “You don’t have consensual sex with someone who can’t consent. Yes, it was rape.” If both parties are drunk, Xeno, the one can’t legitimately consent to sex nor, and this is the important point, the other cannot legitimately request that they consent. In other words, “consent” and “request that they consent” are irrelevant to the issue. You do understand this, don’t you Xeno?
: no_fool (1:27PM) – “If someone is slurring, staggering, incoherent, passed out – they are obviously not able to consent.” That is true, but if the other party is slurring, staggering, incoherent, passed out – they are obviously not able to request such consent, are they, no_fool? Do you understand this?
: tommyjules (1:35PM) – “And to the question I’m asking myself is that if two drunk persons emngaging in an act, why is one party the victim and the other the criminal?” A good question Tommy. For the answer see the title of this comment, “Asymmetrical Gender Relations.” You’re on the right track.
: PK (1:25PM) – “SHITTS is a big baby who gets offended every time
someone mentions his name.” Good going, PK. That’s a powerful argument. Now, grow up.
: no_fool (2:06PM) – It’s true, no_fool, there are not many female rapists. But could you tell us how your comment relates to the issue, i.e., “Asymmetrical Gender Relations?” No, I didn’t think so.
: tommy jules (4:27PM) I don’t know either, Tommy.
: More (5:36PM) – Sounds about right to me, More.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
WTF MM … were my comments not inflammatory enough to warrant a response?!?!?!?! I feel like the bastard child in the family!
*grrr hulk table flip*
Very interesting thread. Funny how what defines a sexual assault seems to fall along gender lines. The female side talks about clear consent while the male side sees the lines blurred by alcohol. In this case, I am unclear whether penetration was involved. “he asked if he could take off his condom. I said no. Then he stopped.” I think that’s important because penetration would be a physical and psychological violation. It’s clear from the story that the behavior of the man changed once they got behind the curtain, alcohol or not. He was the aggressor and no clear consent was given. If no penetration happened, the whole case becomes much less clear, maybe he had a change of heart.
I do believe, however, that having sex with somebody whose drunk doesn’t necessarily constitute rape. Maybe legally but not practically. It’s very dicey. Sometimes people exercise poor judgment, sometimes predators use alcohol to disorient their victims, they both involve situations with drunkenness and no specific consent but the difference here is intent. Rape is a powerful word and has to used very carefully.
Men and women may be equal in the eyes of the law but it doesn’t take into account the differences in physical stature or the vast emotional differences. Men are by far and away the chief perpetrators of sexual assault because they can. They can overpower a woman and force himself on her but it doesn’t work the other way around. I don’t know the stats but I would guess the majority of sex assaults committed by women are on other women or children.
Women should press ahead with the legal process if assaulted but I do understand the hesitance. If I was attacked and sodomized by a 7′, 350 lb man, I would definitely feel embarrassed and weak. I do not know if I would want to relive it. I do think I would try to protect society from this man in the end though.
COME ON Montrealman, you can’t absolve someone of their responsibility as a citizen to obey the law, just because their drunk. The good for the goose argument don’t fly here, pal. You are adult enough to drink you gotta be responsible enough to follow the law. You can’t go around raping people. Or breaking into homes. Or do whatever you want and get away with it because you’re drunk.
It was Janes fault that she went downstairs with a guy? She brought it on herself because she walked behind a curtain? She has every right to go downstairs in a public establishment. This aint no porn movie, its real life. Surely this girl did not intend to have her pants torn down or fuck this guy IN A BAR! How can you say she asked for it? Next you’ll be saying it was her fault because she had her cleavage showing or she was wearing fuck-me pumps that night or too much makeup.
MM, just read your other comment to me. The only asymmetry is body mass and also statistics don’t lie. You use a lot of big words for someone who never fuckin says anything.
That was beautiful Troody <3
I agree, embarrassment is another reason. Jane probably isn’t her real name (jane doe?). Of course that’s how they get away with it and it keeps happening again. Someone needs to give these friggin men some salt peter!
Ask a girl for sex.
No? Yes?
If No. Politely apologize for the mixed signals and go home to masturbate alone.
If Yes. Feel like a boss, thank her, offer a high five to any guy near you, offer a high five to her.
During no pants dance.
If she makes happy noises…..continue…..but ask if she is still into it. When finished…..engage in pillow talk.
If she seems upset, distressed, passed out, or any display of displeasure……Stop, ask if she is okay, then put on clothes and make sure she gets home okay.
Accusation of rape. Did you rape her?
No? Yes?
If No. Explain to the judge that she consented to initially, during, and afterwards (during pillow talk). Show judge the awkward after sex text messages you got/sent on your way home where she says you should meet up for coffee or something sometime.
If Yes. Enjoy the shame of making all men look like assholes.
Personally, sex with a random is too risky. That’s why Tommy and I stick to the double dutch rudder. It’s not gay and it works. He works my arm and I work his arm….not gay…..unless he looks me in the eyes…..then its kind of gay.
This still annoys me 24 hours later; I’m going to address it so I can let it go…
SHITD wrote “It’s feminist attitudes like yours that push the womans [sic] movement back by decades.”
Wrong (again!) People who speak up do not ‘set their movement back.’ It’s people who sit back and do nothing who set a movement back.
Happy 101st International Wimmin’s Day, everyone. (Seriously, Dahling, you don’t look a day over 39)
True Story:
Ivan: “Hay SOBova, how many women does it take to change a lightbulb?”
SOBova: “THAT’S NOT FUNNY, you big homo!” *cries, stamps little feet*
And, for the record, I happen to ENJOY sleeping on my couch. >; )
Zilla, I would totally get really drunk near you and not feel scared 😀
Why am I so pleasant today? God damn hormones. They should really call them whoremones.
Zilla is fabulous 🙂
Wanna do coffee sometime, big guy? 😉
re: Zilla—I know, right?
Zilla, face it, you’re a member of the club now. I can tell that your heart isn’t into trolling. Who would have thought someone whose avatar was coldblooded would have such a warm spot…and more than a brain stem…
Ivan-lol. I’ve heard versions of that old gem before (insert feminist or Smithie)
I am off to the sentencing portion of a statutory rape trial involving a former student of mine (the victim, not the perp) Maybe why I’m not as interested in the guy’s side of the story (Like Tommy, personal experience can jaundice us)
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/201…
You’re right Xeno. But what a double standard does is personify the old stereotype that women are not equal under the eyes of the law. If you want equality, then you don’t get to go through everything and pick and choose what you like about inequality, and keep it. It’s all or nothing, and this, in my opinion is definitely gender biassed. It also has to do with the fact that you (and many other feminists) believe that women have absolutely no responsibility for their own safety. How women conduct themselves on any level has nothing to do with common sense safety regimen, seems to be the feminist mantra. It’s always the mans fault, no matter what. There is no action a woman can take that is unacceptable, there is always the underlying stubbornness that women are always right, and because they are women, they deserve that bias in the eyes of the law.
The definition of “ability to give consent” based on sobriety alone, leaves too much open to interpretation, gender biass included. If intoxicated, this gives the woman opportunity to claw back consent for any number of reasons, women are complicate and emotional creatures, and who knows why they would want to, but the option is there. What is the level of intoxication? Like I mentioned before, is it a blood level? Perception, and if, whose? Having to register as a sex offender is pretty damaging for someone, just because someone changed their mind after the fact. If you think that all women are honest, there are womens prisons all over the world filled with dishonest women who took advantage of a situation.
This has no bearing on cases of violent, hunted, grabbed off the street, thrown in a van kinda raped.
RSVPs
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (III)
As expected, the responses directed at Montrealman completely missed the point. Two points should be made before a quck review: (1) I’m suprised no one picked up on the typo in the title and used it as a launch pad for a full frontal attack. However, no one picked up on the typo title in the original post either, perhaps because they didn’t understand the word “asymmetrical.” (2) However, the title is important as it is the basis of my view where, in cases of mutual inebriation and initial participation such as Jane’s, the male is invariably the thuggish pig and the female invariably the frail victim. What is also important to note is that, no, I am not in favour of rape and no, I realize that rape is invariably done by the male. But – are you listening? – that was never the issue. Asymmetrical Gender Relations as in the Jane case was. So, a quick look at the responses directed my way:
: Anita Donk (March 7, 8:30PM) – What you say about tone is true but irrelevant to the issue.
: Troondon formosus (10:23PM) – Another waffle from Troon. He wonders whether penetration took place and if it did, then it’s rape, buddy it’s rape. Maybe he should ask Jane. But then Troon also believes that having sex with somebody who’s drunk doesn’t necessarily constitute rape. Atta boy, Troon. Keep tap dancing.
: no_fool (March 8, 7:03AM) – I wasn’t “absolving” anybody from anything, Fool, and I never said, “she asked for it.” You’ve got to read the words, Fool. I was just bringing attention to – wait for it – those Asymmetrical Gender Relations as in the case of Jane. You must struggle to understand that, Fool.
(7:21AM) – “You use a lot of big words for someone who never fuckin says anything.”
Very elegantly put, Fool. God, I wish I had your command of the langusge.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
SHITD said: “How women conduct themselves on any level has nothing to do with common sense safety regimen, seems to be the feminist mantra. It’s always the mans fault, no matter what.”
No, It’s the attacker’s fault. The majority of ’em just happen to be men. The way in which a woman conducts herself has NOTHING to do with it! She can conduct herself any fucking way she wants; Nothing validates a sexual assault or rape. What kind of person thinks that way? It’s misogynist attitudes like yours that make all men out to be barbaric assholes. Like oooh am I not acting proper or lady like enough… I guess I’m deserve to be sexually assaulted. We live in a CANADA, where we can go topless in some parts if we so choose. Why should we have to take extra precautions and hide ourselves away like little puritans in this free country? Safety is our born right under the Canadian Legal Code, not a regimen we must prepare ourselves.
Sorry if I upset you PK. I just find it really disturbing that so few of these crimes are reported, and think it needs to change drastically. I don’t care who’s “fault” it is and wasn’t trying to point the finger at victims, but I stand by what I said. If crimes aren’t reported they can’t be punished, this is not a matter of opinion.
You calling me a liar Xeno? This isn’t some hearsay, this is my very best friend that I’ve known since I was 5 we’re talking about here. Like I said, she admitted it was all lies eventually. Not before she filed a restraining order, (which is funny because HE was the one trying to get rid of HER) and not before he had to shell out money for a good lawyer.
Another instance a girl lied to me and said that a guy made her do some stuff she didn’t want to do. This supposedly took place at the guy’s aunt’s house.
Multiple witnesses later confirmed that he was nowhere near his aunt’s house at any time on the night in question. He was at a party in a completely different part of town. No, the witnesses weren’t all his friends. Of course I found this out after I got suspended from school for going and fighting the guy.
I won’t get into the reasons why she lied, but they were just plain childish.
Another instance a girl cheated on her man and then when he found out said that it wasn’t consensual, even though she was the initiator.
Forgive me for being skeptical. I grew up around some abosultely disgusting human beings, many of them female, so it bugs me when people act like like women are incapable, or any less capable than men of treachery or lying because I know this to be untrue. I find your rhetoric to be very self serving, and you never answered any of my questions. I guess we agree to disagree.
I’m saying that most victims are liars but it does happen. People do crazy things for messed up reasons.
We need to be more willing to see other people’s perspectives if we’re ever going to advance as a society.
I’m done now.
tommyjules902 you need to see a counselor or something to move past this weird image you seem to have of women. No matter how much you say you’re ok with women, from the amount of time I have spent in silence reading posts on this website it is evident to me there is something you need to address. You may say how can we truly know you, well you type a lot and divulge a lot. Honestly, this is not meant as an attack at all, merely an observation.
Montrealman, what exactly are you trying to say? Like your point is totally lost in all this symmetry jiggerish. Quit trying to sound smart and rephrase your point. Nobody cares that you don’t know how to spell so spare us your long winded disclaimers. Are you are saying men and women are not tried equal in the eyes of the law?
Perfect example of what I just said, no fool. It’s absolutely not misogynistic to say to anyone, not just women to watch your back, protect yourself, be wary about putting trust in someone you barely know, drink responsibly, keep your wits about you, and don’t put yourself in harms way. It’s stupid attitudes like yours that lead people to think they can act any way they want and there is some invisible legal barrier that will protect you. What’s wrong with saying to my wife “be careful, don’t get too out of it, make sure you all stay and leave together, if you have any problems call me. What time should I expect you home?” when she goes out with girlfriends? Why does giving good advice always get misconstrued as misogyny when it comes from a man. Go ahead, do whatever you want, I don’t know you or give two shits what you do or what happens to you. But, you should, so have some respect for the fact there are undesirables out there, and you can’t tell by looking at them. Reckless abandon us your right, should it be you prerogative?
holy crap that was boring…
90 some comments … mostly
“you’re a misogynist…”
“you’re gender biasing”
“well I’m rubber, you’re glue… and since I’m a woman, I win”
christ… you’re all worked up… and likely all for mostly the same reasons…
you’re just reading into responses way to vindictively.
ps
are you telling me that time I got drunk and sold my soul to the devil for not puking everywhere, that’s null and void?
do I still have my soul?!?!?!? (were I to even believe in such a ridiculous notion)
Criminals operate outside the law. Rapists, pedophiles, threives, murderers, etc, don’t seem to have the same respect for your rights as you do. Protecting yourself is your duty, not anyone else’s. I look out for myself when in unfamiliar surroundings, I take my own advice in showing restraint when it comes to exercising my “rights” where personal safety is involved. If you don’t like common sense, don’t bother then. Idiot!!!
Perception is reality. Argument solved.
Asymmetrical Gender Relations (IV)
RSVPs
: tommy jules (12:23PM) – Tommy, I think you forgot to add the word “not” in your second-to-last statement. Anyway, an interesting post.
: no_fool (12:52 PM) – “Like your post is totally lost in all this asymmetry jiggerish.” (sic) (That should be “gibberish,” Fool, and you forgot to add two words: “for me.”) Anyway, my point may be lost on you, but then again I suppose most things are. Why not try reading over my posts again. For example, you demand an answer to the question, “Are you saying men and women are not tried equal in the eyes of the law?” Now, Fool, look at what I’ve written. Do you see that statement there? No, of course you don’t. It always helps – well for most people – to read what someone has said before criticizing them. And Fool, don’t even think of asking me to go behind that curtain. Don’t get any ideas.
: furious styles (2:31PM) – “Perception is reality. Argument solved.”
But furious, if perception is reality then your perception that perception is reality must itself be just another perception and can therefore make no claim upon us. In other words, furious, your claim reduces to that of utter relativism based on what happens to be one’s perception. It is a denial of any independent truth. But this has consequences, furious. Principal among these is that you have uttered a self-refuting proposition – you maintain that your claim to the effect that there is no independent truth is itself an independent truth – and in so doing have engaged in fundamental self-contradiction. The consequence, of course, is that in spite of your assertion, the argument is not “solved.” If you hve difficulty in understanding this, furious, you might want to consult with no_fool, and good luck on that.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Well Pipi, I appreciate that.
Can you show me where I ever said or implied that I have a problem with women in general?
I believe that you should judge someone based on their actions, not their opinions, which in this case is imossible to do.
I just hate dirtbags, SETs, and hypocrites. What bugs me is when people single out one gender as better or worse than the other. Men and women suck equally and in many cases treat each other like dirt. Good people are very few and far between, in my experience.
I try to be a good guy and respect everyone, ESPECIALLY WOMEN, so it bugs me when I hear women generalize men.
some of us know thomas in human form and he is a good person
thanks PG! You’re a good person too, not to mention baker of cookies.
I am definitely not judging you tommyjules902 because I would not like to be judged myself. As for pointing out exact comments, my attention span in too short for the sifting required. Having said that, it is not my intention to make you seem like a bad guy at all, because as I pointed out, I have been silently reading here for sometime and understand you are not an idiot or a woman hater. Just certain little things typed have led me to think you’ve become jaded when it comes to females (even by your own admission). Letting go/talking about/seeing someone about certain things can be very liberating. I am in no way telling you what to do but Pretty Kitty’s question earlier in this thread prompted me to say something. If you are offended or whatnot, then disregard this.
I’m not a waffler Monsieur! Well at least most of the time I’m not. Well, let’s say six or seven times out of ten I don’t waffle on a topic. Okay , I might waffle half the time but, in all likelihood, it isn’t any more than that. Unless you can prove otherwise in which case I’ll adjust my stance on that.
I’m more a pancake man anyway. By more I mean 60% of the time compared to 40% dedicated to waffles. By time, I mean specific time spent eating either pancakes or waffles. I really don’t spend much time eating either if you discount Shrove Tuesday which is also called Pancake Day, I’m not Catholic or anything.
So in short, I generally (meaning possibly more than 50% of the time) don’t waffle, I lean (maybe not strongly) towards pancakes over waffles, I’m not Catholic and.. I guess that’s it.
That’s my position and I’ll probably stick to it.
Eh,
Thanks for your concern Pipi but I’m just fine. This board is my therapist. I get multiple opinions for free instead of one person’s for a hefty fee.
I don’t think PK thinks I actually hate women. I don’t know if that’s the comment you are referring to. I consider her my friend. How is saying “women do it too” hating women?
Xeno.. seriously it’s like talking to a brick wall with you sometimes.
“That DOES NOT men that sexual assault is committed equally by men and women. Jeesh! and you say I look at things too black and white!”
I never once said, implied or suggested that sexual assault is committed equally by men and women. I looked up the stats and posted them FFS. Again, you do realize I’m an adult right? What planet do you think I’m living on? I just told a true story. You want to be skeptical of my friends situation but I can’t be skeptical a woman who’s grabbing a dude’s dick on the dance floor and crying rape the next day? How is it any different? To me it’s just as heinous a crime to lie about a thing like that as it is to actually do it. Could you imagine being falsely accused of something like that? Both these situations need to be taken equally seriously.
“and as far as absolving one gender, I know if you don’t that alcohol “increaseth the desire, but taketh away from the performance” in the male genitalia department, whereas a woman could be totally unconscious and yet have carnal knowledge.”
Kindly tell me wtf that has to do with anything. My question was when two people are drunk as hell and have sex, why can one accuse the other of a crime when they both committed the same act and were both intoxicated? Let’s say they were both women or both men, so as to remove gender from the equation. Answer my question or sod off please.
You don’t think guys make bad sexual decisions when they’re drunk? You don’t think women take advantage of men sometimes when they’re intoxicated? Cuz guess what? That happened to me! I felt like shit about it the moment I woke up, but I would never have the audacity to point my finger and say “you manipulated me! I didn’t consent to this! I was too drunk to consent!” I don’t think being drunk absolves me from responsibility for my actions. Had I been sober I would not have done it, but it was my choice to drink and get close to someone who I knew wanted to fuck me in a nightclub, which is a sexually charged atmosphere.
I’m not saying that victims of sexual assault are just all regretting a bad and/or drunken decision they made, I just think it’s fucked up that the option is there for women and not for men. You think female victims aren’t taken seriously? How hard do you think the cops would laugh at me if I tried to press charges on the girl? Because by your definition, which apparently is also the government of Canada’s, she raped me.
I know that most women would not file a charge in a case like this, but the fact that they can is kind of scary, because there are plenty of dirtbags out there that would rather ruin the reputation of someone else than tell the truth, thus damaging theirs. Men do it women, men do it to men, women do it to women and women to it men. Is that not true?
Anyways, rest assured, I won’t be having sex with any drunk strangers at a bar any time soon. I understand it’s playing with fire, I just don’t think it warrants a lifetime label of rapist/sex offender or a prison sentence.
I also agree with what Donk said about levels of intoxication and using judgement and common sense. But why is it more the responsibility of one party to exercise that common sense? I just think that there is a lot of room for what I would consider an innocent people to end up registered sex offenders.
And just to be perfectly clear my comments are not related to the article PK posted. The guy apparently made no attempt to get her consent so that’s crossing a legal line.
Montrealman, you have still failed to express a point to all this JIGGERISH. Quit posing as a feminism professor a while… like,
Asymmetrical Gender Relations IV – could you fuck off? Just say what you mean. Constantly peppering your posts with thesaurus words only makes you out to be a pretentious and condescending POMPOUS, not to mention a poor writer.
oh mon petite cornichon, I almost forgot… I don’t think there’s anything YOU could do for me behind any curtain. I do already have 2 baby fingers you know
“How hard do you think the cops would laugh at me if I tried to press charges on the girl?” That does stink Sir but, that’s something male-kind have to work on in terms of not putting themselves in a little box. A prof. of mine pointed out how odd people would think it would be if he walking into class in ladies wear. He’d get snickers and such … because men get more pressure than men to “be a man”.
Also I think we are ignoring a simple thing called Biology here. A hole, for all intent and purposes, is always willing. It’s a bit more difficult to get a man “to the raping point” (cringe) ALTHOUGH it can happen. I acknowledge that. History also doesn’t put women in the “nicest” of positions either so I think it is important to also acknowledge that. Rules should be fair, definitely. The thing is … how do you define an erection. Sounds weird but … does an erection mean consent? I ask because I don’t know … in other words … never been in a situation where it was in question … Erections are not always in control of the male, and I think this is important to point out because people tend to lob all men into a Don Juan box where they can’t resist any pussy that walks by … It is also more difficult to, based on bruising etc. conclusively say a man had been raped … but but but … it still happens … and of course there’s non insertive rape … although I’m not sure where the law stands on this.
There was a case abroad some time ago where a man broke into a store and the female owner tied him up in the basement for some 2 months demanding sex in exchange for feeding him. He was charged fro break and entering but also told them what happened and she was charged. Now this seems like a bit of a web but I’d consider it rape. Also there’s oral and anal rape … just think, in a man on man construct, rape is easy to define if one anally rapes another isn’t it.
Perhaps we have to revisit the definition of rape and set it up differently for each sex. Seems unfair, it does however, we cannot ignore that ~50% of the population, gay, straight, white, black, green, blue have different bodies. It just seems a bit easier to define it for women.
… hmmm … as well you get into the nature of individuals … as in … another girl going behind that curtain, even drunk may have had no issues with the situation … but that whole thing is so shady …
Just, don’t go behind any black curtains … now I’m trying to think what bar/pub/club has black curtains … might have an idea …
Quick show of hands, guys. Who here has ever woken up with a killer hangover and a “World’s Greatest Grandma” t-shirt tossed carelessly on the floor next to the bed? Nope? . Me neither.
Donk, I agree with you except for 1 point. The “definition of an erection”, and it’s bearing on “rape”. If, in the eyes of the law, a “person” is intoxicated, then consent cannot be given. Therefore it’s a moot argument. If no legal consent is given, “rape” has occurred. It has nothing to do with the operating level of the gear, it’s an emotional reaction to the actions leading up to, and including the act. If that’s the definition of rape, it has to be the same for both sexes.
The example I gave, about a guy in a bar making it plainly clear he wasn’t interested in a girl is true to life. He turned her down flat, she waited around, separated him from the group, lead him home and fucked him. He had no recollection of anything past a certain point, woke up naked in some strange bed. I can say this was completely out of character for my friend, he’s never been a 1 night stand kinda guy. He then had to explain this to his girlfriend. Do you think she accepted this, got him tested for std’s and all was forgiven? He was devastated by being taken advantage of, and losing a relationship. If this happened to a woman, the man would be painted heartless for not “understanding” the emotional torture the woman went through. The fact that she gets to cry “rape” and be taken seriously, and he doesn’t is a double standard. All her friends called him a douchebag, while if this happened to her, would be saying “you poor thing, I can’t believe he’s mad at you, what a douchebag, you deserve Sooooo much better”.
” It has nothing to do with the operating level of the gear” I think that was kind of my point … Maybe I didn’t explain it clearly enough, but I was trying to say that many people seem to not acknowledge that men are not always in control of their “gear” and can be taken advantage of. It seems that people take an erection to mean consent when it may not be so. You must also understand I’m a woman and working off of what other guys have told me with respect to these things. The coercion up to the act is what is important (as well as the act of course).
I understand you Stephen but I’m past the whole drunk thing. I get what the law says I’ve explained where I stand on that. I do not agree with the laws definition completely and that is why I typed that whole spiel (which is rare … so enjoy it, lol, I kid).
“The fact that she gets to cry “rape” and be taken seriously, and he doesn’t is a double standard.” I also somewhat addressed this. It’s a mindset that has to change. The compartmentalization of people from an early age and telling them how they should and shouldn’t act according to sex constructs is in the end what is causing such issues. As well I can say that the women who actually fake cry rape are despicable and I do not whatsoever condone that kind of behaviour. This is just one problem in a long long list of inequality issues … but you already know that.
… but it is what it is. Sad as that is. In time I believe it will change, mainly from people having these kinds of conversations.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (V)
RSVPs
: Troondon formosus (March 8, 10:16PM) – Troon, I think you’re waffling about being a waffler. It can become addictive. Try to get a grip.
: no_fool (March 9, 2:56AM) – “Asymmetrical Gender Relation IV – could you fuck off? Just say what you mean.”
Another eloquent “billet doux” from Fool. As with sex, she won’t be put off any longer. Okay Fool, I will say what I mean as long as you promise not to take me back behind the curtain. (Two little fingers? Hmm, would that be at the same time?)
The best way to look at my theory of Asymmetrical Gender Relations (AGR) might be in terms of computers. AGR is the product of a widespread cultural “default” where, in ambiguous cases like that of Jane, the preponderance of sympathy – and possbly judicial decision – comes down in favour of the female. In crude terms, AGR may be summarized as, “Female Good, Male Bad.”
Interestingly, we have an example of AGR right on this thread. In response to Tommy’s account of his friend’s being falsely accused of rape, Xenophilia (March 7, 5:15PM) stated, “Frankly, the story about your best friend sounds a little suspect, more like an urban legend.” Tommy (March 8, 11:33PM) took umbrage, exclaiming, “You calling me a liar, Xeno?”
But Xeno could not be said to be calling Tommy a “liar.” Rather she unknowingly fell victim to Montrealman’s theory of Asymmetrical Gender Relations. Does that clarify things for you, Fool?
I notice that your post was sent at the unusually late hour of 2:56AM. Nothing to do with those two little fingers, I hope.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Scenario 1.
“A” is out on the town for a night of partying, with friends. Sex is not the goal, but if somebody cute enough comes along….who knows. So sex is a definite maybe.
As the evening goes on, “A” becomes more than a little tipsy (stumbles, slurred speech).
Along comes “B”, who also has been drinking, and hits on “A”.
“A” & “B” hook up. “B” invites “A” back to their place for some dirty screaming monkey sex. “A” goes willingly, and they do the deed. Both enjoy themselves.
————————————————
Scenario 2.
“C” and “D” have been dating for a while, no sex yet. “D” very much likes “C”, and is thinking that they would like to have sex with “C”, soon.
They’re at a party, and both get rather drunk. They go for some fresh air.
“C” gets amorous, and wants sex now. “D” says “Let’s wait until we’re both sober, it’ll be better.”
“C”, insists. “D” wants to wait. “C” becomes aggressive, and “D” realizes the only way to stop “C” would be to use physical force.
But “D” really likes “C”, and was thinking of having sex anyway. So “D” acquiesces, and they have sex.
Both enjoy it, and relatively soon, begin a long term relationship.
———————————————
My question, is ether/both of these scenarios, rape?
Very well said Donk. I know this kind of thing is really hard to talk about without taking sides. I admire your open mindedness and your ability to see other perspectives.
As difficult and maddening as these conversations can be, you’re right, they are important if we are ever to make advances and shed outdated approaches or ideas.
Hope you have an awesome day. That goes for the rest of you too, even Xeno.. I guess.
Props to Zilla and Ivan for trying to lighten the mood.
oh and Zilla, YOU looked ME in the eyes, you’re the gay one bud, not me.
fuck montrealman…. why cant you just cut back on the insanity like 50%….. not all the way… just 50%… you might be taken more seriously then.
you actually seem to have a few valid points but then they are lost in a sea of crazy.
While I really do wish this threat would die already, I will say that ‘sexual assault’ comes in more forms than straight up rape. #somefoodforthoughtyesiknowthisisn’ttwittersofuckrightoff
“I don’t think PK thinks I actually hate women.”
I don’t think you hate women, but I do think you’re a bit jaded. You don’t trust women at all, to be perfectly honest, and that makes me really really sad 🙁
I still *heart* you, though, and I do think you’re a good guy!
That’s not true PK. I don’t trust women any more or less than I trust men. I only fully trust about MAYBE 5 people outside my family. I don’t discriminate based on gender. You could call me jaded, but I’m just as fed up with men as I am women.
Once again *whips out horse beating stick* I just hate when someone implies or says that one gender is better or more honest, honorable or capable of something than the other. It really seems to bug some women when I say “men and women are equally capable of being horrible people”. Why is that? Why does that tend to make people look at me as a misogynist or something? Isn’t that hypocrisy at its finest? Equality is a 2 way street.
I do have trouble trusting people when strong feelings or money are on the line. People do crazy things for crazy reasons, and I’ve seen and heard a lot of shit in my life that has made me this way. And I’m fine with it! I wouldn’t call myself paranoid, just careful. That’s why I’m in a fairly good position in life for a guy my age, there are some risks I just don’t take.
I’m a straight guy so the “strong feelings” part in my case more so applies to women, but men do crazy shit to women when strong feelings are on the line too. I am just very careful with who I deal with and take a very cautious approach. Many women do this too but I don’t think they deserve to be told they “don’t trust men” They just know that not all men are good people, and there are plenty who will rip you off, break your heart, mislead you, use you, waste your time or put you through an emotional wringer. I know this to be true about women too from personal experience, and what I’ve personally witnessed some of my friends go through. Trust is to be earned, not given, but I tend to pretty much trust you until you give me a reason not to. There are different levels of trust though.
Seems to me I’ve confided some secrets to you in the past in private haven’t I? You’re a woman aren’t you? But we’re friends, not lovers, that’s the difference. It takes a while for me to trust someone that I’m dating to be able to act like an adult if their feelings get hurt.
My friend’s ex who falsely accused him for example. I thought she was a really sweet girl but because he moved too fast with her, he was caught by surprise when she made that disgusting decision purely out of spite. He might have seen some warning signs before it got too serious if he had taken a slower and more tactful approach. He shouldn’t have handed over his trust so easily, and taken more time to get to know her before the “getting serious” stage. You learn from stuff like that.
I *heart* you too. You’ve taught me a a fair bit in the time I’ve been posting here, and no matter how much we may disagree sometimes we maintain respect and kindness to each other.
You’re right Tommy….your eyes were just too beautiful and I couldn’t help myself but to get lost in them.
For everyone that doesn’t know what the double dutch rudder is……..
I grab my thing
Tommy grabs his thing
I work Tommys arm in the happy motion
he works my arm in a happy motion
Not gay because we aren’t touching each others thing
Only Gay if we make extended eye contact….or if balls touch.
No offense to homosexual people….then again I never mean to offend anyone, but I normally do so I apologize in advance.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (VI)
REFLECTIONS ON ERECTIONS
: Anita Donk (March 9, 4:30AM)
“The thing is… how do you define an erection? Sounds weird but … does an erection mean consent? I ask because I don’t know.”
“e-rec-tion, n. a turgid and rigid state of an organ or part containing erectile tissue.” (The American College Dictionary)
Well, Donk, that’s the definition of an erection but it doesn’t really seem to take us too far, does it. But I think you’re not talking about an erection as such, i.e., in its physiological sense, but rather what an erection “means.” But does an erection “mean” anything?
Well, in one sense, an erection obviously means that the owner of the erection (the “erector?”) is horny. Even that is an interesting question since it is not known how the activity of the mind “translates” into physiological phenomena. Think even of raising your arm. Science cannot explain it since the activity transcends material conditions. So the phenomenon of the erection escapes exhaustive scientific explanation.
In another sense, however, things get more complicated. You ask whether having an erection “means consent” which implies more than a mere physiological state of being horny. It implies rather a motivational state in which the owner of the erection “consents” to something. But does it make sense to ask whether the owner of the erection consents to anything at all?
In normal sexual relations it seems odd to speak of the male as “consenting,” with or without an erection. The erection is now out of the picture as a defining feature of normal sexual relations. He has an erection, he is ready. But what the male usually does, directly or indirectly, is to ask the female whether she consents. So, in my view at least, the question itself is muddled. Consent is given or witheld by the female, not the male. This is true in the case of other species where estrus is the determining factor. In the case of the human female who is not restricted to the estrous cycle, the factors involved in giving consent are much more complex. But consent still resides with the female.
Well, Donk, that is the best I can do. Any thoughts?
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
For some reason this makes me think of Tommy and ‘zilla:
http://funniest.1000notes.com/post/1865047…
I don’t know why, but it does.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (VII)
RSVP
: KillBrindiAlready (March 9, 1:18PM)
“fuck montrealman… why cant you just cut back on the insanity like 50%… not all the way… just 50%…you might be taken more seriously.”
Well Brindi, thanks for the advice but you’ve got to tell me which 50% contains the insanity so I can get right to work on it. As you have pointed out, I want be taken more seriously, particularly by deep-thinkers like you.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
MM: “judicial decision – comes down in favour of the female. In crude terms, AGR may be summarized as, “Female Good, Male Bad”
So you ARE saying men and women are NOT tried equal in the eyes of the law. …FFS just say “yes, fool, that’s what I meant”.
Men and women are equal in the eyes of the law. Both are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Who sides with who is irrelevant. You are charged when evidence is presented – male or female. Statistically, when it comes to sex crimes, evidence and facts stack up against the man almost always.
Furthermore, quit implying I’m too thick to grasp the concept of your verbal diarrhia Not too long ago you were taking credit for a bitch I wrote when the coast offered me a writing gig! Admit it, you are oddly, oddly attracted to the fool. You want to BE me…
Ok MM, I’ll give ya a whirl behind the curtain. Just as long as you duct tape your trap shut (I can’t stand zee franch accENT) and wear one of these:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/5…
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (VIII)
RSVP
: no_fool, March 10, 10:52AM
“MM: judicial decision (sic) comes down in favour of the female. So you ARE saying that men and women are NOT tried equal (sic) in the eyes of the law…FFS, just say ‘yes, fool, that is what I meant.'”
Um, no Fool, that is NOT what I meant. Read my post over again carefully and note the word just before “judicial decision.” What is that word, Fool? That’s right, it’s “POSSIBLY.” Makes all the difference, doesn’t it Fool. If you have difficulty in understanding my meaning, Fool, you might want to read the sentence over again to yourself. (Try not to move your lips.)
Did you write that ebonics bitch, Fool? The reason I claimed credit was the hilarious contrast between my elevated, sophisticated diction on the one hand and the ungrammatical, mindless quality of the ebonics bitch on the other. Well, I found it hilarious anyway. Is ebonics your first language, Fool? I must say, you were very convincing.
However, Fool, I also must admit admit I am oddly attracted to you. In fact I have frequently fantasized about our time behind the curtain and now it seems it will become a reality. I realize the force of your passionate lust for me, Fool, and I must ask you to restrain yourself, at least during the preliminary stages.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Well, Don Giovanni just bought the farm. Hate the game, opera goers, not the player.
“The reason I claimed credit was the hilarious contrast between my elevated, sophisticated diction on the one hand and the ungrammatical, mindless quality of the ebonics bitch on the other.” – I call BULLSHIT. You waited far too long, for this to be believable.
Yeah that is exactly what you meant. Any fool can see your constant postings on Asymmetrical Gender Relations (in Title &, ALL CAPS) would indicate that you feel there is some inequity there. That you would pose the question makes your stance obvious. You have a very deep rooted fear of being wrong, don’t you lil’ guy? Little man who uses big words to compensate. Put down the thesaurus, get off the fence and state your opinion for once, MM. Possibly is for pussies.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (IX)
RSVP
: no_fool (March 10, 10:06PM)
Well, Fool, of course I do feel that “there is some inequity there” in gender relations where the “Female Good/Male Bad” social default position is currently widespread but, as I have been at pains to point out, it is more pronounced in ambiguous rape cases like that of Jane. (My use of capitals is designed to draw attention to what I believe is my original rendering of this social phenomenon.) In any case, Fool, I think your difficulty in grasping this concept is you concurrent difficulty in grasping the textured subtlety of Montrealman’s mind.
Now Fool, you must realize that criticism of a male’s psychology – ie. my “very deep rooted fear of being wrong” – has a very definite impact on his ability to perform. If you continue in this manner I feel that it might be necessary to withold my favours behind the curtain.
P.S. Look, even Col. Ivan Sonofabitch (5:25PM) is having his reservations where he, very charitably in my view, advises readers to hate the opera – ie. the continuing saga of “Asymmetrical Gender Relations” – but not the player, ie., you. He doesn’t want anyone to hate you Fool, and I wholeheartedly agree with him.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
I don’t think Jane’s case is all that ambiguous. Reading her story, most would agree she was assaulted. But there is no evidence. Just her story and his, wherever he may be. I reiterate; society has been conditioned to believe the woman over the man in sexual assault cases, and rightly so – the attackers in these situations are almost always men. However, those opinions are a moot pointe, aren’t they? Without evidence or witnesses, charges can’t be laid. So your AGR arguments boil down to something subtle and textured alright – MUSH! Would you like du fromage with your whine? Poor you. Poor, poor you! And I always knew you had performance issues. Don’t worry, I’ll be gentle.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (X)
RSVP
: no_fool (March 11, 2:56PM)
“I don’t think that Jane’s case is all that ambiguous.”
Well, Fool, I find your claim to be itself, um, ambiguous. I suppose the point, like all others of any interest, is ultimately philosophical, i.e., what are the limits of ambiguity? In other words, when does ambiguity end and certainty (clarity?) emerge? An interesting question but we need’t go there since you proceed to quickly self-destruct.
“Without evidence or witnesses, charges can’t be laid,” etc. etc.
Well, there you go. I see that gradually, by slow increments of what is clearly painful ratiocination on your part, you are coming around to my point of view. Let me be the first to congratulate you.
“Don’t worry, I’ll be gentle.”
You don’t realize how much that has re-assured me, Fool. I was beginning to worry that you might be swept away by the force of your unrestrained lust. See you soon behind the curtain!
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
“when does ambiguity end and certainty (clarity?) emerge?”
With proof.
Without evidence or witnesses, opinion means nothing. And therefore a gender asymmetry (whatever the fuck that is) means nothing in the eyes of the law. Like I said several posts ago. So quit crying about how UNFAIR men have it because they don’t. Just say it…” No Fool, you are right and I am wrong”.
Gawd, I hope your skills behind the curtain are less tedious and sleep-inducing than your writing/debate skills.
Nighty night & cheerio muthafucka
oh, just in case anyone didn’t put this together, I mean to say “I’m NOT saying that most victims are liars”
Just in case someone might have thought I was a complete fucking asshole.
O.O Sweet Jesus Christ this thread is still going.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (XI)
RSVP
: no_fool (March 11, 8:39PM)
“Without evidence or witnesses, opinion means nothing.”
Well, Fool, it is obvious that ambiguity ends and certainty (clarity) emerges with proof but – are you holding the arms of your chair tightly to avoid vertigo? – this is precisely what was missing in the iconic case of Jane and, one supposes, her’s is not unique. And of course you’re right, without evidence or witnesses, opinion means nothing. But – are you holding the arms of your chair tightly again to avoid another bout of vertigo? – this is what I’ve been saying all along! I’m beginning to entertain uncertainty here, Fool, and its not just about your behind-the-curtain skills. Now, say after me: “Montrealman is right and I am wrong.”
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
MM – If the answer was obvious, why did you ask?
You might rethink your next title, maybe change to:
*The IRRELEVANCE of Asymmetrical Gender Relations.
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (XII)
RSVP
: no_fool (March 13, 8:13AM)
“MM – If the answer was obvious, why did you ask?”
But Fool, you must read the rest of the sentence. I DIDN’T ask where proof was available and the answer “obvious” but rather in those cases, such as Jane’s, where there was ambiguity regarding such “proof” and, um, the answer wasn’t obvious. You must struggle to understand that, Fool.
When you have done so you will realize that your advice to the effect that my landmark concept, “Asymmetrical Gender Relations” is “irrelevant,” is itself irrelevant. You must struggle to understand that as well, Fool, but something tells me not to be optimistic.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Wow, this is shaping up to be a real battle of the intellects.
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerder…
LOL Hugo, luckily in that case it shouldn’t take too long…
ASYMMETRICAL GENDER RELATIONS (XIII)
RSVP
: The artist (March 13, 9:48PM)
It already has taken too long, you buffoon.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!