It drives me nuts when people post ads (in and on the usual venues) for motorcycles, who’s main selling point is that it is a “great beginner bike.” Since when is a 600-750cc a great beginners bike? Since never.
Yes,I know there will flames about someone who started cold on one, had never ridden anything else, survived just fine yadda yadda. That is not the statistical norm, and f*!&%$g dangerous to assume that hopping on a 100+hp bike capable of reaching speeds of 200 kph in second flat is safe for beginners. The correct demographic for these bikes should be seasoned riders. Not everyone is working their way up to 1900cc’s of two wheel fun. Some experienced riders actually prefer midsized bikes for their daily commutes and just plain fun. What they are not is starter or beginning bikes. If you or a friend is looking to start riding, take a saftey course first..they will set you on the right path. Do not buy a bike before you take the course, as they provide them. Once you graduate the course, you will have a clearer idea of what your comfort zone will be. Yes, you can be thrilled and comfortable at the same time.
—Flyingbrick
This article appears in May 7-13, 2009.
Besides just being less likely to break yourself, don’t forget that the smaller your first bike, the better rider you are likely to be later on.
…best use of available power and all that.
wow… been a long time since I’ve seen a post with any content I didn’t disagree with.
Your right, for the most part,…….BUT:
If your a seasoned peddle bike rider,
and if your a seasoned standard shift driver,
and if your a seasoned automobile driver,
and if your accustomed to driving in city traffic,
and if you DO take that riding course,
I think a mid-sized bike would be OK as a first bike.
Isn’t “great starter bike” sorta like “great starter home”? It’s not that the home is modern or old, it’s about the price… isn’t it? I won’t claim to know a whole lot about motorcycles but aren’t those numbers indicative of size? Wouldn’t it have been a great starter bike for your 6’2″ beginner?
This is a good post. I started on a 500cc cruiser (which I still ride) which is good for most beginners. It will go highway speeds but won’t run away on you when you hit the throttle. 600-900 is good for a 2nd bike once you’ve got the hang of things. Do take the course, it’s an excellent way to find out once and for all if motorbikes are good for you.
Also keep in mind that if sport bikes are your thing, lower that cc as they are built to go fast quickly.
kay,
except at the extreme low end (mini-bikes), the ENGINE SIZE has little to do with the expected RIDER SIZE.
Also, motorcycles do not have ceilings, and though there is a bit of variation with pedal reach, handle reach, and ground reach, those, again, are not tied to engine size.
Would it make sense for a person to order a bigger engine in a car because they are taller? Of course not. …same principle here. Now, maybe if they WEIGHED a ton…
About sport bikes in particular, a 250CC (maybe even 125CC) will smoke most any car on the road for acceleration, and a 500CC will double highway speed. Anything more is entering ‘squid’ territory.
I’m confused. I’m sure it would have made little difference if my first vehicle could do 300kph in 60 seconds. I’m still bound by traffic law. I still have to be sure my ass stays on the bike when I hit the gas…. even a piece of shit can take off on you if you don’t know what you’re doing. Maybe this bike had a nice and broken in throttle… good for a beginner?
Oh, bikes don’t have to have “ceilings” to be too fucking big or too fucking small or even too fucking heavy. Enlighten us some more Dogma.
600cc are -financially- a great beginner’s bike.
Have a good week.
Kay, hypothetically, if you could get a ferrari and a K-car for the same price and both well-maintained, which do you think would be an appropriate starter car? I would think a starter bike would similarly be something that is a little easier to handle. Even if you are staying within the speed limits, driving a sports car is not as easy as driving a 4-door.
All else equal, I’d buy the Ferrari over the K-car and pay someone to teach me how to drive it.
I would too…but I wouldn’t buy the ferrari for my teenage son or daughter to start out in. I’d probably buy it and resell it though. That’s either a really cheap ferrari, or an extremely overpriced K-car.
Ok, great repsonses all, however, for like balls and kay (traffic laws? LOLOL), who not really convinced that a wittle itsy 600cc bike could cause problems for a beginner;
a) Call your insurance company, or get an online quote for Honda CBR600RR, Suzuki GSXR 600 , or a Yamaha FRZ600. Regardless of your age and experience, you will be, um, how you say, financially discouraged from purchasing one of those.
b) 600cc sportbike class bikes. Why 600cc’s is it a magic number or most efficent for power to wieght? No and no. The reason is because people were killing and maiming themselves in droves, on the 650’s. Some cleaver industry mogul, who saw the upward spiraling costs of insurance a serious marketing problem had a solution…”fool” the insurance tables. The tables for “danger Will Robinson” mode at 650cc…so the major players in the sportbike industry got together and built 600’s…with more power. Now you have lighter faster bikes, and for a brief period, cheaper on insurance. So there, in a nutshell is the “birth of the 600” story.
Kay has it pretty much figured out. A 600cc has enough brute acceleration to make you loose control in a big hurry. Sure they have state of the art brakes to compliment all that giddy up, but if it’s too late to use ’em..well, I think everyone in the MC community know one or two dead family, friends or aquaintances, who got a fist full of way too much horses for thier experience level. Most people who have never ridden an MC can not concieve how much sudden acceleration these “pocket rockets” are capable of. A 2008 Honda CBR600RR produces 102 HP to the back wheel. At 410 pounds with all fluids in, this bike is faster than a 10 year old 1000cc sportbike. It is frighteningly fast, and decievingly stable, easy and fun to ride…untill you twist the wick..this is the part in the movie where most novices wreck…badly.
All the 600 class sportbikes will do in excess of 150 MILES an hour, and turn in roughly 10-11 second stock 1/4 race times…all out of the box..stock..no mods. Cars that do that cost 6 figures..in comparison, these will run you a paltry 10 grand new.
You cannot compare cars to motorcycles. it is apples and oranges.
One must be careful, and really research your first foray into the world of “bumper cars”, as there is no such thing as a “fender bender” or small scratch. The least damage you will ever do to yourself and your ride, will be experiencesd while dropping your bike in a parking lot, at a dead stop. Everything else hurts..alot.
There is a reason folks in the medical world refer to people whizzing by on motorcycles wearing bathing suits and flip-flops as “organ doners”.
long winded…again…sorry, it just makes me wince..and someone is gonna ask, so yes, I have been riding forever, sport bikes, Harleys, dirt bikes et al. Survived a few wrecks, and lost more than a few friends. The point to this long winded diatribe is to expand the point that was made earlier about engine displacement. Do not pitch bikes as beginner bikes based on size. There are 900, 1000, 1340, and even 1800cc bikes which are much more “sedate” and har far less horsepower, but that is a whole other topic.
I’m out of pixils so mercifully, I will end here.
Hey my old K-car was a great little workhorse and took a lot of abuse. I could just see it now people strapping plywood and gyprock to the roof of a Ferrari. LOL.
from kay:
“Oh, bikes don’t have to have “ceilings” to be too fucking big or too fucking small […]”
from me, beforehand:
“Also, motorcycles do not have ceilings, and though there is a bit of variation with pedal reach, handle reach, and ground reach […]”
kay, reading works better when you try to make it past the sixth word in a sentence.
I don’t know shit about cars so not even going to bother.
Dino Jr., if that was on purpose, that was hilarious.
This thread…not about cars. lol
My bad, anything involving motors.
Dogma, “motorcycles do not have ceilings” is such a… Rafiki thing to say. Entirely unexpected.
Flyingbrick— great post, but given all that data, it doesn’t stop people. I’ve seen people riding around on 1000cc Hayabusas in this bloody city, and they’re a full-fledged race machine. There’s no right “starter bike”. You could buy a 250cc machine, and it could have a better power to weight ratio than a bike that has an engine three times the size. I’d personally like to add that I learned on a naked bike, only a few years ago and that it seemed like the perfect fit; not sporty, but not too weak either.
Hey Doc, that’s sexy!
Did you ever get any clothes for that bike?
To add to my first post this a.m., a crotch-rocket is never a good choice as a first bike, …..actually…….naw not going that far, said enough,…..aw fuck it, sport bikes should be left at the track!
kay,
headroom is one of the biggest worries when it comes to most vehicles possibly being the wrong size. I was pointing out that it does not apply here…hence less worrying. What’s wrong with that (besides it being obvious)?
Dr. Fever,
have you switched bikes? I learned a couple of years ago but I don’t see any reason to switch away from my small-engined bike anytime in the future.
By the way, if I were nominating a best starter motorcycle, one big consideration would be the ability of the rider to hold it up when stopped, so…low weight and low seat. I would also go against a full-on race bike, of course. …not so much because of the power, but because of the hair-trigger throttle and brakes.
I wouldn’t either. Nowhere to really open it up, besides, 250-500cc bikes have plenty performance for day to day riding unless you riding a fat hog, then you need a 1250. Smee, it’s just a type of bike: not quite a sport bike, not quite a tourer. But I see what you’re getting at.
Smee: My bike is dead sexy without any clothes. It’s a royal Nova Scotian blue.
Sweeet. Cruiser?
Mines a Classic Cruiser with da floorboards and saddlebags an all that shit.
Damn, our bikes should have dates.
Ya right, likely, I don’t know where your bike’s been!……..and naked……mine stays dressed.
She looks good naked mind you, but I keep that 12 x 18 colour glossy photo of her naked beauty to myself.
Dr. Fever, I believe a naked bike is any non-cruiser street bike that does not have fairings.
The street types are really sport, standard, and cruiser.
It sounds like you have a naked standard bike, and if I took the fairings off mine, I would have a naked sporty-standard (it’s in between).
…getting technical, I know. Let’s focus on something else…
Are LTWWBers more likely to be bikers than the general public? …seems like it. lol
You’re right. I don’t even own it anymore. Couldn’t afford to keep the car and the bike. I’m kicking myself now…
damn it… all this bike talk’s got me wanting one.
any brands you find are good for starters? as in low maintenance.
Step-dad’s got a 76 harley and you can’t ride the thing more than a day without having to clean it out.
My pick for starter bikes…and don’t get me wrong, these bikes are seriously fun, reliable, and easy on the pocket book. Suzuki 500 EX , Kawawsaki Ninja 250, Honda CBR 250 , Suzuki GS 500. Even the smaller 250cc’s pack enough power to get you in trouble so take the damned course. THe 250 Ninja is much more powerfull, than a 150cc scooter or 250 moped. It’s all in the power to weight thingie.
BTW, Flyingbrick is also the nickname of the bike I ride. BMW K75S … it’s because the engine, when stripped down looks like a brick. Like why are Harleys called “Hogs” , Ducattis’ “Dukes'”? ..ok, some are more obvious than others ;~)
Ya, but I wouldn’t want to buy a 250 and have it top out at 170Km/h, Then a year later buy a 600cc to keep me interested. ”grow into” is not the safest route but likely the cheapest. I see your point but it depends on what the rider intentions are.
Flyingbrick is correct with his list of starter bikes. The 500 EX is a Kawi though, not Suzuki. Can’t go wrong with any of those.
I learned how to ride on a Ninja 500 and that was awesome. It had some pick up, but not enough to hurt me like my current Gixxer 600. I’ve ridden 750s and 900s but prefer the 600 due to its size. The others were just too big. I’d like to give the R1 a try though to see how it feels.
I never understood why guys would go out and buy as their first bike, a sportsbike. These types of bikes aren’t meant for beginners. Like previous posters mentioned, today’s sportsbikes aren’t toys. My 500 produced only 45hp, but when I increased by 100cc, the power more than doubled!!! I’ve had a lot of friends suggest what bike to buy and all of them can’t get over the image of riding a smaller bike instead of one of the sportsbikes.
So they buy the sportsbike but don’t enjoy it because they’re having a hard time riding because they don’t have the skills to handle the machine they’re on.
Get on a smaller naked bike, or cruiser and learn to ride first before hopping onto a sportsbike. Then you won’t look like a fool dragging your feet at stop lights and in traffic because you don’t have any clutch control.
Balls, there’s no way a 250 is ever going to hit 170. You’ll be lucky if it can hit 150. I couldn’t get my 500 to hit 150, so I’m not sure how a 250 would ever do that. You may consider the “grow into” route to be the cheapest but is it really?
You have to take into consideration the cost differential in insurance and also the 99.9999% probability that the larger bike will be dropped, thus causing at least $250 worth of damage. The one variable we can’t put a $$ value to is experience/knowledge gained from riding unhindered (not being afraid of the machine). If you ride something that is beyond your skill, you’re basically holding yourself back because you can’t fully control the bike.
Formula 1, MotoGP, NASCAR..those drivers all start on small bikes/cars before they graduate up to the full size machines they’re in now. Valentino Rossi started his racing on 50cc mini bikes. If the world’s best riders/drivers don’t take the “grow into” route and are the best in the world, why would anyone else want to take the “grow into” route? If your goal is to not be the best (safest) rider you can be, then the “grow into” route is the way to go then. There are plenty of squids lining Spring Garden and the various parking lots around town waiting to wheelie around town with.
Yes.
squids? thanks OTT and thanks google.
didn’t know that one.