My bitch is this: Whose business is it if I choose to end my life with some dignity in old age, ill or in perfect health. Are you truly offended if I choose euthanasia over wasting away in the ‘care’ of strangers? What do I care if you choose to end your life? Answer: I don’t- You’re life is simply not my business and I would not presume to make it so.
Who are you to say that abortion is wrong? If a tree falls in the woods and no one’s around to hear it…. if your neighbour has an abortion and you aren’t aware of it… Do you wake up screaming during the night because you can *sense* abortions?
I understand this bitch is very general but I just don’t see the logic in the arguments against abortion and euthanasia (among other things). If you oppose abortion- don’t have one. If euthanasia is a straight up sin in your religion- go ahead, die however you want.
—I choose dignity, freedom and quality of life
This article appears in Mar 26 – Apr 1, 2009.
I agree with you completely! Let people live however they want as long as they’re not imposing their beliefs on you, who cares?
First of all, abortion is not illegal, so in a way, society/the law does agree with your views on that point even if there are those who vocally oppose it.
With respect to euthenasia, no one can stop you from offing yourself, but I don’t think the government or the law, and probably not society in general, are ready to agree that it’s OK to help someone else die.
That might be a change that is on the horizon, but I think it will be a long slow road.
My 2 cents though, assisted suicide should be an option for people but I you need make sure that there are some legal documents or supervision in place or you leave yourself open for murder mascarading as mercy.
I think part of the reason why assisted suicide isn’t becoming the norm, is because of some of the reasons that Miles brought up (namely the Angel Of Death issue) and religious ones. I just think that there are too many people out there that hold onto the belief that suicide of any form is a sin, and by and large, as much as we hate to admit it, Canada is a primarily Christian nation. The true sin is someone who is just a shell of the person who they used to be, stuck in a bed, unable to move. It’s a sad thing.
Interesting bitch. I agree with both of these points, however I don’t think the OP was necessarily talking about assisted suicide in the case where the patient is in a coma/unable to make decisions for themselves. I think they meant if you feel like you would like to go to sleep and not wake up, it should be your decision, and I agree. The doctors and nurses should be there to help you, not make important life decisions on your behalf.
And about the whole abortion situation, Miles, you are right in saying it is legal here, but at the same time, a large percentage of society has a stigma attached to this particular medical procedure. In my mind, it’s a good thing it is legal, because wether it is or not, women will be getting abortions. So we can either offer it from medical professionals in a sterile environment or they [the women] will do it themselves and that is never safe.
Simply “not getting” an abortion is not a viable answer when you believe that abortion of any form is murder, based on the belief that life begins at conception, based on the belief that it is when an egg and sperm meet that the process of creating human life is begun.
Try to look at it from that perspective, and maybe you can see why people like speaking out against something that they consider to be murder.
And also, forget that “if nobody hears it” BS. Sound is not something that only exists when someone hears it. Sound is a force, a wave. It’s energy. It’s there whether you hear it or not. Just like that tree fell whether anyone saw it or not.
Acting like abortion is okay strictly because you can’t hear the poor child scream is about one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever heard.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2819149.…
Abortion is a decision between a woman, her doctor, and her god.
MSN- you missed the point. i hope you didn’t really think you’d be taken seriously by putting words in the OP’s mouth. you’re a minority and getting smaller, buddy.
truely i think if youre going to advocate against abortion you should start by going vegan… now THAT’S murder.
Ok, so from a legal definition (and I am paraphrasing a bit) MURDER is the unlawful killing of another human being. So, abortion is NOT murder because it is a lawful termination of life. Eating meat is NOT murder, because animals are not people.
Murder is a fun word to use because it evokes such a powerful emotional response, but it is too often used incorrectly and, in my opinion, makes the user look emotional and not rational and makes me not want to listen to them.
Not all killing is murder.
you just used “killing” and “termination” in the context as it suited your argument, miles. It was my cheeky attempt at squeezing in my views :S i think “murder” is more ‘killing something (any living thing) against their will’. as an embryo/fetus/zygote(in some cases) does not have a will- it cant be killing/”murder”- not that i think its murder in any context…
animals are not people is a weak statement. animals are perfectly cognitive and capable of interpreting stimuli as we perceive “feelings” like pain and stress etc. hacking up chickens and cows is murder- the “termination”/”killing” of a willfull, livingm individual, human or not. the anti-abortion argument misses the “willing” and “human”. its simply not a formed human before a certain stage. but of COURSE this is the whole issue. X thinks a blob of cells is a blob of cells and frankly if you can’t tell a frog blastula from a human blastula WHY ON EARTH do u think you have an anti-abortion campaign. Y thinks like MSN. concieved from birth etc etc…
I do find the tree falling in a forest analogy a bit wierd for this issue. I don’t even actually think that anything material “exists” outside my own perception, but I don’t see a reason why that precludes the belief that some things are morally wrong.
I’m not really interested in arguing about this anyway…there’s no point. I have the legal right to an abortion, I don’t need to convince anyone….unlike MSN. There is no rational argument that will convince anyone, man or woman, to put the image out of their head of a baby being ripped apart, or what have you. My personal opinion is that if abortion foes really, truly, deeply cared about saving “babies,” they would put their energy toward initiatives that reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies. They would come out strongly against lack of education, lack of access to birth control and economic opportunity, rape, and domestic violence. This will save more “babies” than were ever saved by abortion bans, which don’t stop abortions, but result in women turning to back alley methods which not only result in the death of the fetus but may also kill or injure the woman and produce future reproductive difficulties.
Then again, for many of these people, their belief in the right of a fetus to live basically exists side by side with a belief that birth control, and the existence of single and/or celibate women of childbearing age, equals abortion, so what do you say to that? 😛
PS: MSN, the only “person” that can ever “hear [a fetus] scream” is itself. And, while fetuses have been proven to express displeasure by making the motions of crying, no one knows if it actually makes a noise for even itself to hear. If it was possible with medical technology to record the scream of a fetus, you can bet that anti-choicers would have made the recording readily available in the same way that they feel it necessary to make images of aborted fetuses readily available on the drive to work.
As for euthanasia, I think it should absolutely be legal, as long as there are safeguards in place to try to prevent abuse.
I actually don’t care as much about the legal semantics as I do that people just choose words that evoke an emotional response to try and add strength to arguements. It’s like using the word “flesh” instead of “meat”. Murder implies malicious intent. Neither a mother getting an abortion nor a person eating a burger have malicious intent.
F7 you are passionate about protecting animal life, MSN is passionate about protecting human life. That’s good, but just don’t allow passion to rule over reason. There are strong arguements to be made for respecting the life of the unborn and of animals and those arguements are best made by passionate people with level heads.
Mole rat, I very strongly agree with what you have to say about pro-lifers focusing their efforts in more productive areas.
I think some pro-lifers might understand that there are reasons a woman might want to abort beyond “I feel like killing my baby today, it’ll be fun.” They just don’t see any of those reasons as being important or relevant. In their minds, it’s just: to kill or not to kill. If you don’t, you’re a good woman, if you do, you’re bad. Black and white.
Of course, there are others who simply think that having an abortion is, for women, like a happy trip to the mall, or eating some ice cream. “Oh, I’ll just pop down to the clinic and get that baby sucked out of me and still have time for my nail appointment.” Of the people I’ve known who’ve had abortions this hasn’t been the case. It is a difficult decision for pretty much anyone.
Note: I am aware that it’s not possible for a fetus to scream. Merely comparing it to the same point OP compared it to, tree in the woods and all that. I could’ve just simply stated that something does not have to directly affect me for me to think it is a problem.
Further, OP said that they didn’t “get” the argument against abortion. Merely trying to give some insight, that’s all.
And finally, I’m not so crazy as to be against birth control as well; I’m all for birth control, I think it’s great, but once the horse is outta the barn, things change.
What do you mean by the horse is out of the barn? Do you mean when the sperm evades the birth control, or when the ladies just can’t keep their legs closed?
I do agree though that the reasoning of “if I didn’t see it, it doesn’t matter” is fucked. Unless you’ve already decided that “it” is better than the alternative.
It’s been said above, but if I could just add: unwanted pregnancies are going to happen, and consequently, abortions will as well. It’s really easy to tell a woman who’s considering an abortion that she will be responsible for the murder of a living human being, but it’s not that cut and dry.
There are other issues, such as the quality of that child’s life – what kind of upbringing will it have, considering it was unwanted and in the hands of incapable people (financially and otherwise).
My point though, is: we should be thankful that abortions are legal and can be performed by professionals in a safe and dignified manner. Try watching the great film ‘4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days’ about how abortions go down in Romania, a country where they are forbidden, and tell me abortions should be made illegal again.
Correction – abortions within 14 weeks of conception have been legal in Romania since 1989 (the movie was obviously based earlier than that). My point still stands.
As long as I or someone else doesn’t have to clean up your carcass, go for it. I hated cleaning up other people’s messes.
Pro-lifers are usually the same people who bomb abortion clinics and actually commit the legal definition of murder. That’s okay though, because it’s in the name of God.
Im thinkin this bitch is to serious for this site. Thats just my opinion. its just no fun!
By “horse out of the barn”, I meant once a pregnancy has occurred. Figure of speech.
Yeah, I’m aware of what a figure of speech is.