I had it up to here with this stupid unscientific way of reporting the temperature. Stop giving us this stupid “feels like 40 below with the wind chill factor” bullshit!”. If it’s minus 15, just tell us. If it’s gonna be windy, tell us that too. Frostbite alerts? No problem. But the ‘windchill factor is just a stupid made-up thing to make the weather forecast sound more dramatic and get people to tune in. My thermometer doesn’t care, my car doesn’t care, my tools don’t care, my diesel fuel doesn’t care and the ice on the lake doesn’t care.
Only a person standing naked, perspiring and shivering should care. If you (presumably) cover up, there is NO SUCH THING. Enough already with the “feels like 40 below!” crap from overly-excited weather forecasters!
Minus 15 is just that, minus 15..
Listen: I’ve worked in 40 below, I’ve known 40 below, 40 below is a friend of mine…-15, you are no 40 below…
–seNor fRio maldiTo
This article appears in Jan 21-27, 2010.
Wind chill has to be real, the scientists have a chart and everything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill
Yep windchill is nothing – has no affect on the ambient temperature ! I know – 40 very well – and my truck don’t care – my car don’t care – my tools freeze and I don’t care !!
And I suppose there’s no reason to use a fan on a hot day because +30 feels like +30 whether there’s a breeze or not.
I’ve been explaining to people that the lower the temperature gets here, the warmer it is. In the daytime, anyway.
I guess after reading that wiki link well … I can agree somewhat Miles – but when I am up in northern Alberta sometimes working – my truck temp say – 43 when its -43 . Windy as hell and still – 43. It maybe affects body heat loss ( why wouldn’t people be dressed up for weather – I just don’t get it !!!) But windchill has zero effect on objects – my truck sits in an open area at -40 – thats all it is to that object – 40 . On the exception of people – its really has no effect on inanimate objects .
You can’t fool what – 40 feels like. I’m glad I’ve got a heater in my truck!
Yeah, and I get your point too (assuming you are the OP). It’s just a handy number to have because it lets me know whether or not to break out the face coverings for my walk to work. A windchill number makes more sense to me than a wind speed…but I guess I would adapt to whichever system the meteorologists adopt.
Also, windchill should affect your truck as well since it affects the rate of cooling. Since you probably leave your truck outside it can’t be cooled below ambient temperature. When we say it feels like -40 when it’s only -15 that really just means that you will cool to -15 at a faster rate (i.e. as fast as if it were -40 and no wind). If you exposed yourself to -15 weather with or without windchill you would still only freeze to -15 degrees you would just do it faster if there was wind blowing over you.
How about a “cold chill factor” then?
I’m in Wyoming, where the westerlies are gusting to 25-30 knots…but because it’s ‘cold” it “feels” like hurricane force so I better park it!
It’s a stupid subjective judgement, depending on what you’re wearing, the relative humidity at the time and, oh yeah…the actual temperature.
Weedhog…read further, even “Wiki” that fount of limitless knowledge goes on to call it for what it is…inexact and unscientific. It’s just so the weather girls have something to get excited about for a change…
….whose gonna talk about “minus 10 and a strong north wind” around the water cooler, and tune in to the 6 o’clock news, when they could be warning each other on twitter about “with the wind chill factor, it’s gonna feel like you’ve had your nut-sack dipped in liquid nitrogen…”
Ridiculous.
And Miles, while I agree that “graphs and every’thin'” lends a certain credence…I’m not sold until I hear from a scientist with a high shiny forehead, talking in a calm voice, in front of a bookshelf…I need to see that bookshelf…
When they start talking wind-chill, one just knows it’s gonna be cold, so dress for the weather and be prepared. It’s never a good idea to fool around with Mother Nature!
Nuff said by me.
try living in anartica for a couple fucking months. man t gets real fucking cold there. we are talking minus 45 degrees farenheit there, not fucking celcius. 1 minute outside, your dick becomes a dickcycle, i kid you not. i was there years ago,stationed actually, and we just couldn’t handle it.but up here, hell it’s only a dry cold.
Hey Senor, Glad you finally got off the john, I swear the stench was escaping into my monitor.
lol
Personally, I prefer it when they say how long it will take for exposed skin to freeze. That is the more direct, exact and scientific application of the principle. The physics is sound, it’s just the equations used to arrive at a “feels like” number that are debated. Besides, I’m sure some of those weather girls are getting their information from some people with pretty big foreheads and very impressive bookcases who know a little more about physics and meteorology than even the authors of wikipedia.
It’s just sophistry for bundle up!. I can extrapolate ambient temperature and wind speeds all by myself.
Meteorologists are professional guessers.
Worst wind chill temperature I ever felt was -115*. It was real and it was cold!
“”it’s just the equations used to arrive at a “feels like” number that are debated.””
Exactly my point…it’s all speculation….goofy “formulas” aside. It doesn’t take a mathematician to tell you that one can make an “equation” for pretty well anything, if one is given the leeway to come up with one’s own custom factors, variables, or constants etc… And the formula on WIKI was actually to create a “windchill factor”…NOT a “feels like” temperature (What they refer to as a “temperature equivalent”).
How often do we read in the back pages of the local rag about some boffin who’s come up with a “happiness” factor, or a “romance” equation…or the “formula” for success or some such nonsense…?
This type of nonsense is indicatrive of the dumbing down of science and mathematics to make it more “palatable” to the masses who didn’t like science back then, and don’t like it now.
Wind chill factor…fine
A smiling Cindy Day telling us it will “feel like -20″…not fine. How do you know what -20 feels like anyway, because when it’s -20, we’re told it “feels like -30”!?
And the silliness of trying to calculate an exact number for the “feels like” temperature, is an example of this whole new “citizen driven science” that’s become so prevalent in the media now. Suddenly folks who couldn’t tell their cube root from a hyperbolic cosine are “experts” in everything from climate change, to complex macro-economics…
Just look at the ridiculous example of the “climategate” emails. A few scientists, overly anxious to try to present a nice simple linear graph to help convince a skeptical public, are caught up in a little bit of Mendel-esque fudging…and suddenly we have half of the western world gleefully calling for all “science” to collectively eat crow!
As if “science” is made up of only a few white lab-coated Larson-esque characters, standing in a laboratory in front of a chalk board full of hand-written differential equations as they come up with the next big breakthrough – an “equation for “hunger” or some other such nonsense.
Good grief.
-115 Fahrenheit, I presume. The coldest temperature recorded in Celsius, is -89.
And where was this? Antarctica?
OOp, I was directing that question to Oceanlady!
Climate change, a pet topic of mine. Too bad for all the dolts that have their heads in their arse and can’t see the actual warning signs, via satellite imagery and scientific recordings, spread over decades. Ya, corporate greed wins over our daily lives.
I prefer the extreme cold to the extreme heat any day! At least with the cold, you can bundle up and warm up. It’s much harder to cool down and feel comfortable in the heat and humidity. It seems to stick to you no matter what – literally. You always wake up dehydrated from sweating your ass off throughout the night. A lot more critters and creepy crawlers to worry about getting in your bed too. I’ll take the nice cool nights bundled up in a nice warm blanket, thanks!
Gee Q: I thought you liked those creepy, crawly, night creatures.
Sweet dreams and don’t let those bed bugs bite:)
Just because I’m one of them, doesn’t mean I like them! Unless they’re sexy creepy crawlers.
Sweet dreams to you too, Pussy.
PuRRR!!!
hey miles is that really you, i know thats you bmf
http://cei.org/cei_files/fm/active/0/DOC06…
it’s a long document, but it disproves the BS which are global warming climate model predictions… page 21 22 refutes a major scientific climate model theory.
Sorry pg 36 37 of the PDF file…page numbers are different in the copied part of the pdf.
I don’t think the OP is arguing that wind plus cold feels colder than cold alone. But here is the key point I took from the posting:
“But the ‘windchill factor is just a stupid made-up thing to make the weather forecast sound more dramatic and get people to tune in.”
I agree with this. Lately, TV weather is becoming like a reality show, with lots of made-up drama and false fears. Peter Coade has lost all credibility with his antics, while Maria Panopalis is the Queen of Wind Chill given the way she trumpets it every morning — even though you just know she does not have a clue what she is talking about. The more “weather warning!” logos they can throw onto the screen the better. The entire concept of wind chill is meaningless to most people anyway, who have no concept of what -40 with no wind feels like. It should be ditched.
Wind chill is a subjective measure. Cooling isn’t, and air flow affects rate of cooling.
Objects already out in the great outdoors, and not being heated up by the sun, are going to be at ambient temperature. There is no further cooling that’s going to happen. However, an object above ambient will cool, and wind will increase that rate of cooling. Your car that you just stopped driving will cool faster if exposed to wind. Ultimately, wind or no wind, it’ll still only cool to ambient. Just like a person who dies of hypothermia.
The idea behind “wind chill” is to provide an indication of the *rate of cooling*. The huge majority of inanimate objects aren’t going to care. The average human being, who is interested in maintaining a core body temperature much higher than that of the snowy woods around him, *is* going to care, and wind makes a serious difference.
“Wind chill” isn’t stupid or made up, and it only takes high school physics to understand it. And for all of the twats who boast about knowing extreme cold, -40 in still air and -40 with a stiff breeze feels different. If you’re a 98.6 degree F human it *is* different. If you’d ever spent many days outdoors in that kind of weather, 24/7, you’d know what you’re talking about. It’s easy to be an expert about the weather when you’re only exposed to it on that dash between the car and the front door.
Paingirl…no that’s not me…I’m not that attractive. Those are my books though. 🙂
BMF: I think I’ll agree with the idea that the media (and scientists in some cases) does water down science to meet the lowest common denominator. On the whole, Canada is not very science literate. That’s pretty clear when you hear the types of comments people (especially celebrities) make about flu vaccines and climate change.
qpmz….have you ever heard of “swimming” on hot days ?
thought not !
It was Celsius Puss-N-Boots and it was not the temperature, it was the WCF. The actual temperature was around -65*c. WCF is determined by windspeed and it was extremely windy that chilly day.
“”Maria Panopalis is the Queen of Wind Chill given the way she trumpets it every morning””
LMAO, good post Bo Gus…And it’s especially annoying to watch this “weather circus” in places that have, on the average, fairly boring and predictable weather.
Halifax is a great example. Not content with “warm and dry, cool in the rain”, or “ten degrees cooler along the coast”, visibility reduced by fog”, “cold and windy” we have to now have wind “warnings”, windchill “feels likes” and the newest stupid boondoggle: HIGH SURF WARNINGS!
Jesus Christ on a skimmer board…now we have have “warnings” about big waves? In the ocean? Oh my! And I’m not talking a BBC-type marine forecast here for the benefit of mariners, oh no…this is to scare the hell out of gullible folks on shore and get them to tune in! Guess what folks….you live on the edge of the fucking Atlantic Ocean, with a thousand mile ‘fetch’ during a southerly storm -you’re gonna get big swells along Nova Scotia’s coast, and when they reach land they get steeper and the break….quick run for the hills why don’t ya!?
Is this because we have too many folks coming here from Upper Canada and taking over our media? Jesus, the fucking “from-away” RCMP has even started to “close” access to several public roads and highways after one of these stupid “surf’s up” items on the telly!
What, are these morons from Toronto? Montreal?
I can see closing Ontario Place if you ever see breaking 10 foot waves coming off lake Ontario…but Queensland Beach will be just fine, thank you, now go back to your donut shop…
wind chill is important, especially here on the coast where we are open to ocean breezes and fog alerts, because our climate here is considered mild compared to interior provinces, which means we need to protect people from wind, cold, heat, fog, air… all that.
The weather network people are from Ontario, and don’t quite understand maritime province weather, so they go to extreme lengths to make it sound like they do know more about it.
“””Wind chill” isn’t stupid or made up, and it only takes high school physics to understand it.”‘
I agree, “realist in Dartmouth”.
But perhaps if you had actually made it a bit further with your OWN education, you would be able to understand that no-one here is questioning the thermodynamics of “wind chill” – only the arbitrary and subjective “Equivalent temperature” e.g. the “feels like” nonsense that draws so much controvery amongst scientists…but is so very popular with the media.
“”And for all of the twats who boast about knowing extreme cold, -40 in still air and -40 with a stiff breeze feels different”‘
“Feels different”, but what makes you think you can put a quantitative number on it? You cannot. “Feels different” how? Does it “feel different” to someone who is dressed appropiately compared to someone who is stranded in a t-shirt and jeans? What about someone who is naked and wet…do they “feel” the same as the guy in the parka?
“Feels like” temperature “equivilents” are stupid and made up. And just to demostrate, your ‘dash to the car’…does THAT change your “feels like” temp you got from Fox News, lol?…because you’ve just changed the apparent wind (snicker) by running!
And here’s a thought…maybe this psuedo-science can save your life one day Realist…if you think you’re in danger of freezing, just run like hell downwind until morning!
Wind chill certainoly DOES affect objects that are above the ambient temp, such as a engine that was just turned off, or a cup of coffee.
It affects mainly people and animals because we are warmer than ambient temperature.
Your car or tools won’t give a crap of course, but bring two identical tools inside until they reach room temp, put one outside in the -10 C windy spot, and then put the other tool in an area wind wont affect it.
Oh surprise, look at which one reaches ambient temperature faster.
Same with a car engine, turn it off when its -10 outside and no wind. It stays warmer longer because of that warm layer of air that surrounds it.
Same engine, different day, -10, 20km/h winds, it will cool faster.
Wind chill definitly affects everything by removing the warmer layer of air surrounding an object that is above ambient temp, so fuck those meteorologists that say otherwise, they should clarify this shit, dumbasses.
Regardless of the science around it, people use wind chill to actually gauge the outdoor temps. Especially during nights like last night, where the air temp was only -11, but it felt a whole hell of a lot colder than -11 with the wind up. If you wanna dress for -15, go ahead. But don’t complain you’re cold, dumbass. I’ll stay warm and without frostbite thanks.
Ah yes you are right cptstubing – but once that object reaches the ambient temperature – it will stay at that temp. meaning if it is -20 – that object won’t go less then – 20 . If it feels like -33 the motor or coffee won’t be -33 it will still be -20.
It really is a case of miscommunication. When they say it “feels” colder than it is, they only mean that you will cool faster than if there was no wind. Again, this is why I like when they report how long it takes exposed skin to freeze. It’s a much more practical and informative number. It takes me 10 minutes to walk to work. If they tell me it takes 5 min to freeze exposed skin, I’m gonna break out the bella clava before heading out the door.
Wind-chill is a combination linear + root function of wind speed and tempurature – it is not straight linear. For this reason, it is valuable to know wind-chill ALONG WITH windspeed and temperature (unless you’re comfortable multiplying fractions and doing square roots in your head).
Everyone above the age of seven is supposed to realize that is is not the actual temperature, but a measure of how our bodies perceive the effect of wind. Being as how we reside in our bodies, how they sense tempurature is rather important, is it not?
It is not pseudo-science, it is based on sound principals of heat transfer, principally: a) moving air upsets the thin boundary layer of insulating air that surrounds our bodies, and b) moving air accelerates evaporation of moisture from our skin. The process of evaporation requires a certain amount of heat of vaporization (energy required to convert liquid to gas), which in this case is supplied by the skin.
The removal of the insulating boundary layer of air, and the increased evaporation rate of moisture from our skin, both cause the body to lose energy (i.e. heat) and result in the sensation of the air being much colder than would register on a thermometer.
It’s dumbed down to term like “feels like -40” because the average person doesn’t know, or want to know, the science behind it. I can’t believe some of you are arguing with this – it’s one of the few factual pieces of information that meteorologists can give us.
My only argument was on inanimate objects. It can be windy as fuck at -20 and my truck and cars outside temp gauges always say – 20 – no matter what it ” feels like” .
“”It’s DUMBED DOWN to term [sic] like “feels like -40” …(my caps)
Exactly. Glad you agree.
All I know about northern prairies and wind chills is ” don’t shake it if you piss outside because it will break off ” regardless of the wind haha
And weedhog, you are indeed correct…The wind does not change the temperature, at all, of the air, or of outdoor objects….but waving your dick around would create an apparent wind…maybe mrman will work out the angular velocity formula for us!
I bet, like me, you’ve met people who think they know what it’s like to live and work in extreme temps because of the silly “feels like” temps given out by the “queens of wind chill” on the local news… “it’s minus 15/ feels like minus 30!”
Then when they REALLY get into a -40 situation…they have no idea they need to treat their fuel, plug in their cars and leave the diesels running…gee, we never did that in Halifax!
I can accept the old standard of giving a “wind chill” warning, and I even like Miles’ “skin will freeze in ___ minutes”; it has a wonderful macabre ring to it…
But this silly “smells like fish/tastes like chicken!” mantra recited by excited weather girls has to go…
Yeah
It’s true Frosty, back in Whitehorse (I lived there for 10 months with my sister) my sis used to have to light fires under the diesel engines of the DC3’s she flew up there, this would usually be when they had to overnight at a mining camp etc and the next day the planes would be blocks of ice. Cold is cold until you feel real -40, then winters around here are balmy.
You have never truly flown until up jump into a DC3 just after it has been thawed out; I am not a praying man but…there were many “requests” sent out into the ether asking for a safe landing back in YXY (Whitehorse Airport).
Your ignorance amazes me. Every person that has experienced wind knows that it changes your perception of temperature. The wind chill factor was developed as is a means of quantifying that change.
It has gone through several iterations since the late 1930s, the most recent model being based on clinical research involving human volunteers, and substantiated with heat transfer models. The experiment was conducted in 2001 by researchers at Defense Research & Development Canada, Indiana University and Purdue University.
The data gathered from this experiment is the basis of the wind chill index used by both the US National Weather Service and the Meteorological Service of Canada. The paper is nicely laid out and available for free online (See link below)
Is it perfect? No. Does it take into account the warming effects of the sun, the heat generated by exercise, or the variances of skin temperatures between people? No, but it does provide a quick and simple indication of how wind affects our sensation of temperature and how quickly exposed skin will freeze.
If you’re going to dispute that, I suggest gather a team of researchers, appeal to a university for the funds to conduct your own peer-reviewed experiment, and produce a better model. I’m predicting you’ll end up changing you opinion, as every experiment done in the last 70 years has produced similar results, with minor variances.
http://ams.allenpress.com/perlserv/?reques…
I have to Agree with you there Der and BMF – yep !!! Funny thing about that is they really DON’T know what -40 is and I laugh at the guys thats can’t start they’re vehicles ! They are like – To quote BMF ” never had to do that in halifax ” . Hee hee – and when they ask for a boost i offer a tow to a warm garage or nearest electric plug to plug them in for the next 5 hours to warm the frozen car/truck .
I wonder what they thought when they came to a -40 environment ? It was going to be warm ? I’ve seen them step off the plane in a ordinary jacket . running shoes and no hat . They always need to ask where the store is to get warm gear haha !!!
More, you’re always picking on me!
Anyway, with the water piss warm, slimy, and with the risk of getting eaten by a crocodile (literally) or stung by a box jellyfish, swimming wasn’t always an option. Everything is warm. It’s just a gross feeling and I prefer the cooler weather of Canada.
Man I remember my first moments getting off the plane in Whitehorse, I was half bagged from the drinks they served my under-aged ass and simply from the long flight from Halifax-Toronto-Vancouver-Whitehorse. 3 seconds off the fight, first thought: “man are my legs working right or am I smashed?” 2 seconds later I come upon a lovely Inuit lady and half a dogsled team (with sled) set up near the baggage claim a big warm “Welcome too da Yukon!” my next thought “I god what I am doing up here?”
Just before I start to try and get back on the plane (I wasn’t up there totally by choice…one of those parental enforced “Go get your shit togeather” adventures, I had been expelled from high school) my big sis grabbed me and my gear and got me movin…It was late November…what I shock I was in when those front doors opened, that was some serious cold…I remember realizing the inside of my throat was freezing from breathing in too quickly.
Q…. aligators are tasty, we eat more of them than they do of us 🙂
The ocean water around NS doesn’t warm up much, if you go down 15, 20 feet it doesn’t warm up at all !
So it never gets too warm around here, that is one of the things I hate about NS. I don’t mind the winter season…I don’t like it, but I can get through it. Its the almost total lack of real summer that gets me down…I want to melt, I want to sweat…I want lethargic sticky hot afternoons with thick air & high humidity, it makes me happy. It makes cold beer which is already good GREAT. The heat makes the lakes, rivers & even shallow parts of the coast much more fun to be in.
I find sitting around my deck in damp cold days in June, July to SUCK BALLZ DUDE & I wasn’t picking on you, bloody hell I wish global warming was really happening, it may suck for some places, IMO we really need some more of it around here !
Give me a month of 70’s to a few days of 80’s give me another all 80’s to the melting point & a third back in the 70’s & I will be in heaven on earth…is 1/4 of the year of nice warm days too much to ask ?
More i hear ya ! I was lucky to do a winter stint in Winnipeg first before I went up north . There I frostbite both ears – froze my face once – so I was ready for the real north haha ! Man when i was there in the late 80’s – that place was COLD!!!
MAN some of you are fucking stooooopid.
I can take -15 without complaining at all if it’s not windy.
throw a breeze off the water and I’m fucking freezing.
case in point, last year walking to work I was fine until I got to that god damn maritime center wind tunnel….
face was red, mustache frozen, shivering the rest of the way.
You can’t tell me it makes no fucking difference to HUMANS.
I mean, obviously if you’re an inanimate object (or riding in one) then whatever…
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