For the last few days as I’ve walked by the VG on South Park st there have been a 1/2 dozen pro life protesters standing out outside the parking lot entrance praying and holding signs. It makes me so angry that they think that its okay and so moral to harrass women. This is a decision that they have made about their bodies. They don’t know the reason why the women might be having an abortion, maybe she was raped, or she’s in an abusive relationship or maybe she’s just not ready to have the responsabilty have raising a child. It makes me even more furious when the majority of the protesters are men!! Like they have know what the women are going through.
These people have their right to be pro life and to protest its a free country But I Don’t think they should be allowed to protest in front of clinics or Hospitals that provide these valuable services!!! It should be a place where women can be safe and not judged for her choice!!!!!
This article appears in Oct 2-8, 2008.
I have to agree pro choice girl. Let’s make the men in that protest deliver a football the next time they need to go to the toilet for a dump. I know, it’s not the most perfect analogy, I’m a guy so I can’t readily sympathize with the pain involved, but you get my drift. As for the rest of them, it’s legal here, go thump a bible somewhere else you holier than thou misfits.They have the balls to do that in front of the VG no less, shame on you all.Jesus protest the war in the Middle East or something more worthy of your time than this.More idle time spent pissing it away.
I read something once…that said “if the fetus you save is gay, will you still fight for its rights?”I’d kinda like to ask that to the protesters.
What a load of junk. Killing a fetus is just wrong. Just because some girl went out and she had a one night stand with some varsity douchebag, doesn’t mean life has to be wrapped into a plastic bag then thrown in the garbage.A woman, by all means should be judged by her choices. Thats a bullshit ideology that you can do whatever you want and then not have to face social judgement or consequences. They are baby killers, pure and simple.On that note, people can do whatever stupid, irresponsible thing to their bodies they want and should be allowed to by law. I just don’t want MY tax dollars paying for something I find morally offensive and repugnant. If they want to get their baby cut out, then they should pay for it themselves, from start to finish. Abortion is so rarely a necessary operation anyway. More like cosmetic surgery. Women just don’t think they would look good with a baby.
Optimus- I thought if you get an abortion YOU have to pay for it????? I heard of girls in high school getting money from the guys that knocked them up to pay for it! That was a while ago….have things changed?
I will agree with the OP on this one. If Optimus Prime Hotdog were to see the amount of illegitimate children his tax dollars are funding he might not be so hell bent on enforcing his views (as a man) on the bodies of others. Your body, your choice. Everyone else can mind their own beeswax.
Hate them or not, the protesters have a right to be there and express their opinions. I just wonder if any pregnant woman has ever walked past these protesters and said “you know, you’re right. I never thought of it like that. This is only one of the most important decisions of my life and I never took the time to think about what Jesus would do. Hand me one of those placards.” I doubt that ever happens, so why waste everyone’s time and add more emotional trauma to what is typically a very difficult time for a person already?
I always love hearing about this. A bunch of unimpregnable people (save for the kids they drag along to their protests who haven’t hit puberty yet) marching around in a circle, and who knows how many single mothers stuck at home on the dole because they can’t afford child care. These protesters could be spending their time productively and saving lots of their own tax dollars if they’d just babysit the unwanted children they’ve ‘saved’ from abortion.Yep, my solution is that everyone who opposes abortion be given one of these unwanted babies, if they care so goddamned much.
They’d probablly come back with something about being gay is a disease as a result of exposure to un-wholesome lifestyles.
The OP brings up a good point here: How can you judge someone, knowing nothing about why this person chose to have an abortion? There could be a number of reasons, and it isn’t fair to ridicule someone for making a choice about her body. I’m sure that these women aren’t proud walking into this clinic..and to be greeted by those sanctimonious dickheads must make it even harder.
hella shitty: That is the weakest fallacious assertion that has ever been relayed to me. First, had you read my argument, I support the most basic of legislative RIGHT to kill fetuses, but I DO NOT SUPPORT that these broads go out and get it done, inasmuch as I find morally hateful and repugnant; therefore I wouldn’t even in a small way wish to help fund these mistakes. The problem is the idea of property rights. Even though the fetus WILL eventually become a person, does the mother have possession of that potential life? When does that possession cease? After birth? After it turns 18? You, hella shitty, have turned a potential sentient being into owned property which can be destroyed. And its really great that you can call children “illegitimate”. Wow.Lori: I am not entirely sure about that, but I might call the clinic and find out. I had assumed that because these procedures are carried out at a provincial hospital that in some way they were funded through tax dollars. And “I” wouldn’t pay for an abortion. I would raise a child. We could go fishing or have fun at the park.
Optimus, my tax dollars go to all sorts of things I find repungent..but that’s the thing about taxes; we all pay into a pot, then the majority decides where it should go.Tough luck, we’re a progessive enough country to say that NO, women should not be subject to their reproductive systems! I hate hearing people blather on about how the real reason they’re anti-abortion is becuase they don’t want to pay for it- well guess what? before abortion was no longer illegal (it’s not actually illegal in this country; it’s just been found that it would be a charter violation to criminalize it…so ti’s in a void. it’s never been enshrined, so all thsoe blowhards still have a hope in hell of getting it axed), women DID have to pay for it themselves- whats more, they had to find a doctor who would pass their case along to a committee of three doctors who would say if they would be allowed to pay for the privelage of having an abortion. what this lead to wasn’t fewer abortions- but more late term abortions (which are more dangerous), and way more women either having kids they DIDN’T WANT or going to find a coathanger, and putting their lives and future fertility at risk, all because SOEMONE didn’t want their tax dollars paying for it.but I digress. my point, to quote morgentaller: every child should be wanted.and if it’s not, I for one want the option of having it dealt with in a safe manner that doesn’t involve a gauntlet of idiots who think they have a right to make my choices for me.
sorry I meant it’s not actual legal in this country………I get all worked up and can’t type.oh ps Optimus, there is a LOT more to raising a kid than parks and fun, and they cost WAY more than any of your ‘tax dollars’ that are going to fund abortions…plus, frankly, while I think the father should have a say, the ultimate decision is the womans. I’m sorry, I would NEVER carry a child to term, interrupting 9 months of my life and derailing my personal and professional life potentially forever, just because the father wanted the baby if I didn’t. It’s my body, and as long as that baby is inside of me, it’s part of my body, plain and simple, and thus I have a right to do with it what I want and how I want.
This topic is interesting. If only life and the decisions we make were always so black and white, Optimus Prime Rib…There are many reasons why a woman might choose to have an abortion. While you are passing judgment, remember that it’s these same women who have been impregnated by (at times) irresponsible men, and it is these women who must face the consequences, sometimes alone.Answer me this, What gives a man the right to pass judgment on a woman for exercising control over her own body?Furthermore, we have these pro-lifers (see the Bible belt in the U.S as a prime example) who believe that abortion is wrong, yet at the same time support wars or do nothing to protest wars, wars which undoubtedly involve killing the other side’s soldiers as well as innocent women and children. If there is a pro-lifer out there who can explain this contradiction in views, please enlighten me.
Just to point out, abortion actually isn’t legal in our country, it’s just not illegal. It’s fairly complicated, but there is no legislation saying that we have a right to get abortions. On that rather pointless note, I think everybody has fairly good points. Of course, when I read the comment by OPR I wanted to hurt him, but I suppose I need to have an open mind. I can understand the annoyance of women who get abortions simply because they wouldn’t look good with a baby, and I completely disagree with using abortion as a form of birth control. If you deem it worthy to not use birth control, well then you deemed it okay to have a child. I know that people make mistakes so I still feel like abortions should be available, but you will be judged for this making this choice simply because you were too lazy to throw on a condom, and I think you should be.However, I am completely pro-choice. These protesters should be allowed to protest wherever the hell they want, simply because when we start to get rid of certain freedoms for people just because we don’t like what they say, we’re opening up a whole new can of worms. I think it’s disgusting that these people find it satisfying to heckle a bunch of people who are already struggling with this decision, but legally we shouldn’t be doing anything to stop it. I completely agree with the men thing. When there are strict laws implemented that force you, the father, to pay for every little thing for our child if you want to keep it and I don’t, that’s when I’ll consider getting rid of abortion for people who just don’t want their baby. Until then, I’m going to have to pay for everything for my child and derail my life to do it, so I have a right to decide if that’s the choice I want to make.
Wow this is, as always, a tough subject.For responsible women, women who protect their bodies with some form of birth control (and that includes making sure the man is wearing a condom), I see abortion as nothing more than a backup for times in which birth control fails.For women who don’t protect themselves, and then have an abortion, I just feel sorry for them. I can understand this happening once, but when it happens several times…. I don’t think it’s immoral, or anything along those lines, I just wonder how someone can have so little respect for their own body to continuously have unprotected sex and then have an abortion when they get pregnant.I agree that men in our society have to step up and start behaving like real men, and taking care of their responsibilities. That includes men who have unprotected sex (I don’t care if the woman says she is on the pill, man up, do your part and put on a damn condom, idiot) , and divorced men who no longer pay for or see their children.But let’s consider this for a minute:Suppose their is a guy. At this point in his life, he doesn’t want to have kids. He doesn’t have sex with just any girl, but when he does, it is protected because he wears a condom. A girl he gets pregnant, even though he wore a condom. He makes it known to her that he does not want to have a child, but she decides to have it anyway. Does she have a right to go after him for child support? I can see some people getting outraged because some people will probably see this as me trying to condone some asshole who is not living up to his responsibility. That is not true at all. With all the birth control (and abortions as a failsafe), women have the right to have sex and not become a parent. Why shouldn’t men have that same right?
Optimus I can see where you’re coming from with respect to the public funding aspect. I (sort of) agree that the 21-year-old university student who doesn’t want a baby to interrupt her career plans should have to fully foot her own bill.But what about so-called medically necessary cases where the life of the mother is threatened by the pregnancy? Or if the child is known to suffer from a horrible painful condition (I’m not talking about a palsy or deafness or something with which people are capable of living healthy lives; I’m talking about something really NASTY that will cause the child endless suffering.) What about severe psychological stress as in a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest? What if the mother can afford a stroller and a Transit pass but no car? What if the mother has some condition that renders her incapable of raising a child and there is no family support to help her?
I think that everyone who is ” pro life ” and thinks that abortion is so terrible, and women just shouldn’t do it, should have some adopted children and if they don’t they should keep thier opinions to themselves . It’s easy to condem abortion , but me personally think it would be much more tragic to grow up in the system or grow up with irresponsible parents who neglect or mistreat their kids because they just weren’t quite ready for children.But like I said if your”pro life” get your ass out there and adopt some kids because if you had your way there would be alot more kids in the system waiting for good homes and people to love them .Put your money where you mouth is if you will …or shut the hell up .
These Pro-Life Fucks think that even if you are raped you should keep the baby, they are fucking loonies. I am glad some people that get pregnant have abortions. I could not imagine some of them being parents or having more kids for welfare to have to support. I do not like it when females use abortion as birth control, but it is often the lesser or the to evils. How about people that get pregnant that do not want to pass along any hereditary mental or physical issues? We do need responsible people like this and we do not need more disabled people if it can be helped.
OPR, interesting point about the ownership of DNA, but I don’t think it can be applied to abortion. Just because my kid inherited half it’s DNA from me, does not give me ownership of it, nor does it give the mother ownership of it. With pregnancy you have 2 different human lives, intimately linked and each with various individual legal/ethical rights. Pro-lifer’s think that the right’s of the fetus supercede the right’s of the mother. Pro-choicers tend to go the otherway and support the mom’s rights. The whole abortion issue is a big grey area and I think it’s impossible to come up with hard and fast rules. In the end, you have to do the least amount of harm. I think sometimes that means abort, sometimes it doesn’t.
Pro-choice…..hmmm…..too bad that the aborted child didn’t get the same opportunity to choose! Too many women are using abortion as just another form of birth control. You do have a choice – and that’s not to have sex in the first place! At the same time, I think there is a valid argument for abortion if it’s a special circumstance, like rape, incest, or if the mother’s life is in danger.
Optimus: First, I’m not so sure the male/female thing is beside the point. I think it’s perfectly fair of me to question why men are entering the abortion debate and passing judgment on women.Second, you seem to be basing your argument on the fetus’s potentiality of personhood. Is this your position? If I understand you correctly, and you are defending the fetus as having the potential to be a person, then men should stop masturbating because sperm also holds the potentiality for personhood. Therefore, masturbation also becomes morally objectionable, does it not?
Why is it allways the women’s fault if she gets pregnent?? From what I remember in grade 4 health class it takes a man and a women to concieve a baby. Maybe the guy wouldn’t wear a condom or maybe it broke? Or maybe she was on birth control which is still not 100% effective. Actually No contreceptives are 100% effective. Hopefully soon their will be male birth control pill so it wont be intirely up to the women to be protected.The Majority of women who have abortion’s do not use it as birth control!!! If you want less abortions then we need to make birth control more readily available and inexspensive. We also have to keep educating people about safe sex!!!Oh by the way they are protesting for the next 40 days.We are so lucky as women to live in Canada because we still have our reproductive rights!! Look whats happening in the states because of Bush and you will be shocked!!! Some states require that you be told that if you have an abortion your more likely to get breat cancer which is completly false!!! Some states make a women sign a contract she agrees that she’s killing her baby. And some states thanks to great governers like Sarah Palin make a women pay for her rape kit because it has the morning after pill!!!
Bob has asked a question that i have asked here before that no one really touches.Since women have can have an abortion ( or put up for adoption )and relieve themselves of parental responsibility, should there be an option for men. Bob cited and example and for the sake of argument, lets go and only use his case for the point of debate.
Homie, go away.scurry off under your bridge with franfran’s squirrel friends.
Bob, that’s actually a really good point. And I agree. However, I do think that in that case it would be the father’s responsibility to be completely upfront about this. Guys who say they will help out and be there and then disappear are bullshit. If women have the right to opt out of becoming parents, men should have that right too, but everybody should make their intentions very clear before the window of opportunity for making a different decision has passed. Although it would be derided as much as a teenage mother, I think as long as a man says upfront when he finds out someone is pregnant that he has no intention of being involved, that’s his right.
Are you kidding me?? I had no Idea. I hope they are there tomorrow, I will have to go and join their protest with my PRO CHOICE signs displayed loud and proud. Fucking idiots…go get gang raped and end up pregnant, or for that matter, YOUR DAUGHTER, yeah lets see how you react when your 12 yr old gets raped and pregnant, that’s right, we can reproduce that age and younger for some…..then I MIGHT take your opinion seriously. As a society we have the responsibility of taking care of each other. You don’t want ‘your’ tax dollars paying for it…MOVE AWAY somewhere else where the people don’t give two shits about each other or their environment. Maybe I don’t want ‘my’ tax dollars going to fund health care for smokers with lung disease, or fatties/rexies with eating disorders. Or child care for someone elses kids. But they do, and I don’t mind…why? Because EVERYONE PAYS. Get over yourselves already. Fuck! We are living in a SOCIETY!!!! I don’t mind helping out my fellow man, when I am ill or I need the health care, your taxes are going to help pay for it and I thank you all. As for the bible thumpers…have fun in lala land with your fairy tales and bullshit lies. I am quite comfortable here in REALITY with the ability to CHOOSE what I want to do, and where I want to go in life.
While I agree with the sentiment of what you just said, Miche, can you not call people “fatties” and “rexies”? I think that “rexie” comment was about the worst thing I’ve ever heard.
I hear abortion really bring out the kid in you…and GO!
Read this:”The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”When the Anti-Choice Choosehttp://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.htmlIt’s hilarious in a sad sort of way.
adi, with what bob has suggested, do you think there should be an “out” so to speak for men? An abortion of sorts for guys? It would have to come with some sorta penalty attached however. I am unsure what it is. But a woman can get an abortion without a guy’s consent. It isnt he doctor’s job to track down the dad and a woman can simply lie that there is no dad and have the abortion without a guy ever knowing. THere is no way for a guy to back out.
I never once said that a woman couldn’t go out and use her body the way she wants, I don’t think she should be “forced” to do anything. I definitely think she’s a dumbass that she has unprotected sex and then, “surprise!” she gets pregnant. And she’s also a dumbass when she heads off to the nearest abortion clinic to get scraped. Its hard on her, its hard on the people around her, its a horrible situation. One that can be avoided, by having the kid, giving it up to an adoption agency, giving it to a relative or friend, or put it on a doorstep of a church; who knows. The point is, this is not an organ that you can have removed. Its the beginning of a person. But its also wrong to force a women to give birth as it is to force a women to NOT give birth, cause there are forced abortions in some parts of the world and its not pretty.Also people make the assumption this a monetary issue, which its not. I am more than happy to spend money to help support people, and I give freely of my own money from time to time – because I have a vested interest in seeing the success of my community. But I can’t in good conscience pay to allow a potential human life be harmed. Just as I find it distasteful that I have to pay to have our soldiers die in an horrible war over oil.Plonk: This is not a male/female thing. And its beside the point anyway. I don’t agree with anyone “forcing” anyone else to do anything, I am a libertarian and I understand sometimes I have to accept that people are going to do stupid things. However, the question remains morally objectionable, because the legal inference suggests that it might be a small step before infanticide or other things.hedgyhog: It might not be long before a man can legally protect the ownership of his DNA and genetic material. Its too simplistic to suggest that whatever is in your body is yours and you can do with it want you want. ESPECIALLY when part of that thing also belongs to someone else. And its perfectly reasonable to suggest that a fetus is also made up of the male partner. But if she wants to send it to the biomedical waste incinerator and he’s on board too, then great! Burn away!Jammie: There are many questions that someone might think of to justify termination of a fetus. For me, none are good, all are selfish.And Miche: Wow. I would be happy if my tax dollars were put towards furthering your education. Because your rhetoric and invective has so little substance, its rather disturbing.
In situations like bob’s I think the Law needs to be able to protect the best interests of the child. Responsible adults should be able to work out an agreement between them about custody, whether that means adoption, child support or whatever. When the parent’s fail to agree on a fair solution to the pregnancy they created together, the Law needs to step in and find a fair and just solution. As I understand it now, there are few options for the guy and he can easily be screwed over by a vengeful ex. Similarly, these laws were put in place to protect women from slutty men who like to sire children they don’t want to care for. I think instead of having blanket laws that say things like “all dad’s have to pay child support” the law should have the flexibility to deal with situations on a case by case basis. In bob’s example, I think the guy should have to pay unless the woman says he doesn’t have to. The kid may have been an accident, but that accident was a direct consequence of their actions. I’ll also add that the decisions of the mother while the baby is still a fetus are unrelated to these types of scenarios. There are several more confounding legal and ethical factors surrounding abortion that are not present once the child is born. It may seem unfair, but that is just reality. Neither a father or the state should be allowed to force a woman to carry a baby to term if she doesn’t want to.
Plonk: I like your syllogism, but its not exactly what I was writing, its too categorical. Women’s eggs have the potential of life, and sperms have the potential of life. But the point is that without the two a person won’t be created. Sure maybe these days they can create life from just an egg or someone elses egg or sperm – but once the two combine and begin gestation they are now on a course to become a person. And aside from any traumatic genetic issues, it is a virtual certainty that a little baby will form. That is what I am protecting, and I feel as socially responsible people we need to collectively protect.And I am not worried about firing off a few knuckle children, that they will come and haunt me in a dream or something. Just like womens eggs, sperms have a shelf life, its good to send those little bastards packing after a while.Obviously, I am not saying that woman should be left by herself with an unexpected pregnancy. I am just saying the opposite. With a strong community and family and friends I don’t think that a pregnant woman should have to pay for anything or lift a finger if she didn’t want to. We have so much wealth and we squander it criminally, when we could be helping people who are having a rough time of it. Don’t want kids? Wear a rubber, or pull out or something, I dunno…switch to anal.. but whats the point of killing what might eventually become a perfectly decent person over it?I am not a religious nut, far from it… I just believe that life needs to be protected and helped along from time to time.
With regards to the argument that men should have the choice to opt out of a pregnancy if the woman wants to keep it, but they don’t want kids. If this were a possibility you would also have to include the choice for men to say, I want that kid, but the mother does not, so the kid must be kept. This obviously doesn’t work because you can’t as a man force a woman to go through nine months of pregnancy simply because you want the baby. If the man could say, yes I want the baby, and I will carry the baby to term, or I will find a surrogate and we can transfer the baby to her, then I don’t think that the mother would mind. The point is that a man just has to be there for conception to make a child. A woman has to spend the next nine months carrying the child, which is a completely different responsibility, which is why it is her responsibility to decide if she wants the baby. Personally I am Pro-Population Control. We have far too many people on this planet, and we are killing it in the process. So anytime we can make a rational choice to keep the population from climbing, go for it. The planet is trying to keep our numbers down in it’s own ways, and we should do what we can to help it. So more birth control for everyone!
PAS covered this nicely. It goes without saying that Bob’s situation depicted is fucked as there is no real way to have an out for parental responsibility. Women, they do have a choice. It is humorous to see all the people that say “abortion is for selfish” reasons……..my one question to all them is, “if you are so pro child, and the person that will be giving birth or going for the adoption is so not ready for it and feels they need to get rid f the child, are you as someone that is so PRO LIFE ready to provide lifelong care for this child?”i hae yet to hear an actual reply to that question from any of them
Wow, Homie and I agreed on something…. “insert twilight zone music here”
many of the people here cant be bothered to actually use any thought and try to see my point, like i said in another thread they are fixated on me as a person and not the points……i asked this same question the last time there was an abortion thread…… it turned out to be about me again instead of the actual question.
The usual answer to that question, Homie, is that there are thousands of infertile couples who would run into a burning building to get one of those “unwanted” babies. The individual pro-lifers don’t need to be prepared to step up and take on the lifelong responsibility of raising the children that would result from their efforts. People are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on overseas adoptions because there aren’t enough babies to go around. I hasten to add that I am staunchly pro-choice. I make this point only to answer the question Homie asked.
are you kidding? There is hundreds of kids that are in the system at any given time that can be adopted. Look at forst care, there is FAR more kids that need than there is parents.Its just that much harder. Its also people are influenced by the celebs that made this fashionable.
I’m not saying I buy the arguement, Homie. I’m just saying that is the answer they would give to your question. Playing devil’s advocate.
ahhh, i see. I usually refrain from posting if i am pro choice or not, as reasons for it are personal,but the adopting for the anti abortion people is a question i always ask, and i always ask about a man relinquishing parental control like a mother can with adoption or abortion….its funny they dodge it.Notice Hedgy on the attack right away in this OP
I think the problem with adoption is that the program bottlenecks at the screening level. There are probably lots of infertile or wanting-to-adopt couples/individuals that cannot qualify for adoption or are bogged down in teh process, so matcing them to kids takes too long and the system backlogs. I’m guessing here as I have no experience, but as I understand it, both Homie and MIranda are right. Foster care is flooded and there are many wannabe parents who are on 5 year wait lists. It was only recently I think that homosexual couples were allowe dto apply for adoption and there might be a lot of single people or older couples who don’t meet the stringent adoption requirements, but would be better parents than the mom who doesn’t even want her baby. Of course, the system has to be stringent because if the state ever gave a child to an unfit home, there would be hell to pay.
which makes me beg to ask the case, if someone knows they are going to be a shit parent, why should they be forced to give birth to someone they know will just get tossed into the system?They care about the kid till birth, and then anti abortionists never seem to care or be active in the follow up of the kid that would have been better off not being born. ( in many cases).Again, not saying my stance, but its pretty one sided and selfish for one to say the other is wrong, but do nothing about it after.
I think the adoption angle is a red herring anyway. It has nothing to do with the fundamental dichotomy of abortion.
but if “the child’s best interest” is the main reason for the borth of the child, then anti abortionist should accept the fact that many that get pregnant arent ready to be parents. They arent finacially ready or mentally ready for kids. To just say “its time to mature up” and all that is pointless as its just words. That being the case, where do these people actually stop caring about the well being of a child? As soon as its concieved? That is how i spilled it to adoption.
but if “the child’s best interest” is the main reason for the borth of the child, then anti abortionist should accept the fact that many that get pregnant arent ready to be parents. They arent finacially ready or mentally ready for kids. To just say “its time to mature up” and all that is pointless as its just words. That being the case, where do these people actually stop caring about the well being of a child? As soon as its concieved? That is how i spilled it to adoption.
but if “the child’s best interest” is the main reason for the borth of the child, then anti abortionist should accept the fact that many that get pregnant arent ready to be parents. They arent finacially ready or mentally ready for kids. To just say “its time to mature up” and all that is pointless as its just words. That being the case, where do these people actually stop caring about the well being of a child? As soon as its concieved? That is how i spilled it to adoption.
That’s only because the pro-lifers are advocating for the fetus which has limited legal rights. Once born, the child is protected in certain ways by the law. That’s not to say I disatree with your point, just saying that anti-abortion and child welfare are two different arguements/protests, so you won’t find them as passionate about both issues. They probably don’t see beyond the issue they are protesting that day. Unless you are OPR, who is probably the only real pro-choice pro-lifer I have not really met. I give him props for that (do the kids still say “props”).
pretty convienient to give rights to someone that cant fend for themselves. We all know the system has GIANT flaws, but want kids to be subjected to the system which they arent trying to fix, instead they are just putting the personal views they have infront of others…..my point here is that pro lifers are really a self serving group that wants to flex its opinions on others, without providing aid to the over all situation. I guess you can say i am a pro choicer.
I am wondering how many kids OPR has adopted …
Lots. I am building an army of unwanted children. Soon we will lay seige to all the liberal institutions you hold dear, like abortion clinics and safe-injection sites and Starbucks. Me and my army will vote Reform every single election then go home to feast on KD and weiners. BEWARE! oohhhhooohhooooo….
Oh man, I want KD and wieners. It’s been many many years. And then I want a smoke.
Dear Bob … if said man is mature and responsible enough to have sex then they he has to be responsible enough to deal with anything that may result in that, I understand he is trying to protect himself and that maybe he doesn’t want this child but regardless he was still involved in the act and if he is not ready to deal with any and all consequences then he shouldn’t be having sex in the first place. That goes for women and men, if there is a child then the people involved in creating this child (wanted or not) should have to be responsible for taking care of him/her, and there are way too many people now a days that are just willing to brush off their responsibilities. If you have sex you have to be able to deal with anything that might arise.