The Coast: Why should Halifax want more international students?

Mike Savage: What we need more than anything in Halifax is people. We need people to come here to live; we need people to come here to study; we need people to come here to invest, to visit, to come to conferences. As much as possible, we want people to not only come here but to like it here and perhaps to stay here. We have a built-in advantage over some cities in that we have six universities and a college right here in Halifax, which is a magnet for students.

Tuition rates for international students are much higher than domestic students’, up to two-and-a-half times higher. Are universities taking advantage of these students?

I don’t think so. I think you could probably charge more and lots of students would come here. It’s still a very attractive value proposition for international students. Finding the right balance is a tricky thing that the universities and college have to work with. I know they wrestle with it a lot. It certainly is financially attractive for universities and colleges to have students from away, but nobody wants to kill the goose that laid the golden egg either.

Would you prefer to see some of those costs more evenly matched with domestic students?

I’m not sure about that. I’m not sure I can speak knowledgeably to that one. We’re focused on those things that are in our area of having input. As a city, we can welcome people. I think the universities and colleges are constantly struggling to make sure they have enough money to run in a first-rate way, and that’s their job. My job is to make the city as attractive a place as possible for people to come.

Nova Scotia sometimes isn’t the most diverse or culturally sensitive place to be. How can the people who live here be more welcoming hosts?

I think in this part of the world, in Atlantic Canada, we were a little behind the curve on immigration overall. Now I think we’re at the point where everybody understands we need people and we need people to come from around the world. It’s a competitive marketplace, both for students and for immigrants. We do have to recognize that we have to make it an attractive place. We have to compete both for students and permanent residents in Canada. We have to make it easier. It’s one thing to bring someone here. It’s another to have them decide to stay here.

What’s to keep the international students here after they graduate?

I don’t think there’s a secret to it. I think we just want people to know they’re welcome. We’re excited that they’re here. We know they can go many places in the world, and the fact that they come here is important to us and we appreciate it.

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This article appears in Aug 28 – Sep 3, 2014.

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30 Comments

  1. I just wasted 2 minutes of my life.
    Ask him for 3 reasons why an immigrant and family should settle in Nova Scotia.

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  2. So, the incentive for people to stay in Halifax is… we want them to? There are no jobs for young professionals, the heart of the city is dying, and rent downtown (both residential and commercial) is completely out of proportion to potential income.

    Well, if this is the mayor’s plan I may be the next person to head to greener pastures. I love Halifax but there are only so many friends I can lose to other cities.

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  3. They gave us the answer in the title. People will move and stay in Halifax because we’re having a BBQ. Pretty simple I’d say.

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  4. Not to support the Mayor on this one.. but.. it’s not a municipal issue. Face it, for too many years we have chosen as a whole to have smaller or no families. So we look towards others outside our country to fill our apartments, buy our large homes and cottages and provide income for CCP. Well, until more support is given to the family unit that makes it more attractive to have children nothing will change for the better. For starters.. all those who wish CCP over 60 in retirement should have claw backs (if) they did not have at least one child to replace them in the work force.. start there not on what Halifax is doing.. what ever Halifax does will never on it’s own be enough.

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  5. Uh, Halifax’s population is not dwindling. It’s not growing by huge leaps and bounds, for sure, but it IS consistently growing, which makes the headline factually incorrect.

    As far as Jessica K’s comment, you might want to look at employment and income stats. Halifax’s employment rates so far this year have been better than Calgary’s, our take-home incomes (even after our higher taxes) are better than Toronto’s and Vancouver’s, and the heart of the city is not dying at all—it’s undergoing a rebuild and rebirth right as we speak.

    Haligonians need to put aside the stereotypes and look at the real facts about life in this city. Real fact: It’s pretty good.

    And Joe Blow, here’s why immigrants should stay and settle in Halifax: because immigrants to this city earn more money and have better employment outcomes than immigrants in most other Canadian cities, work in their chosen fields at a higher rate, and earn more money. Some more facts: http://www.isisns.ca/wp-content/uploads/20…

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  6. pigeon – I don’t buy what you are selling. The raw data don’t tell the whole picture. We import university profs and that distorts the income data. Forget average income and tell me the median income.
    I favour immigrants who speak French or English, have a job in Canada, understand our society and accept the concept of equality for all.

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  7. No JoeBlow, you can’t just take on facts and stats and then decide that they’re BS because they don’t square with your stereotypes. A few university profs don’t distort the economic picture for a whole city. And, as a capital city with a bunch of universities and a large military presence, of course have a good chunk of public-sector employment. That doesn’t mean the rest of us live in penury, however.

    Anyway, you wanted median incomes? Enjoy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Media…

    You’ll note that we’re higher than Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal. And out of 33 census metropolitan areas, we’re #13. And when you adjust for take-home pay (i.e., after taxes and housing expenses) we move up the charts even more. Finally, income growth in Halifax outpaced the national average last year.

    (You’ll also note that the highest incomes in the country are not out west, but in Ottawa—because public-sector employment isn’t SO bad after all.)

    But I’ve seen you post here before. You’re one of these Haligonians convinced that we live in some desolate, inferior backwater, and you aggressively reject any evidence otherwise. That’s fine. You’re wrong, but please stop bitching about the city. It’s depressing—and factually challenged.

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  8. @pigeon. This information from Wikipedia is not accurate. I believe that Calgary and Edmonton have both already passed Ottawa in median income. Even the Greater Halifax Partnership data has already shown that young people are actually leaving the city in droves. It’s also now being reported in Canadian Business Weekly. The city’s population is dwindling. And, the problem with measuring median income in Halifax with other regions of Canada, particularly places like Toronto or Calgary, in Halifax it`s usually earned from well paid public sector employment. In other cities from Ontario and the west it`s mostly earned through high quality, well paid private sector employment. Quality well paid private sector employment in Halifax is extremely difficult to find. It`s a nice city alright, but it just doesn`t have the jobs and opportunities that well educated people are looking for.

    http://www.canadianbusiness.com/economy/yo…

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  9. Why not use statistics from Canada’s statistical agency? Halifax is above the Canadian average median income, and higher than many cities such as Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, and Vancouver, but lower than Ottawa, Regina, Calgary. We’re somewhere right around the middle of the rankings.

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/s…

    And Halifax is not shrinking. Halifax’s population grew by 4.7% between 2006 and 2011, compared to the Canadian average of 5.9. A bit lower than average, but not negative.

    http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensem…

    Halifax is no Calgary, but it’s not falling into the ocean either. It’s a perfectly normal average Canadian city in pretty much all ways.

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  10. @Jammie This data is already nearly 10 years old. Moreover, the financial meltdown and Great Recession of 2009 rapidly changed the demographic landscape which will most surely be evident in the 2016 census results. The meltdown and recession increase the rate of out migration in many regions, especially east of Ontario. Wikipedia cannot be trusted as a source either.

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  11. Ok, in your universe, the 2011 Census was conducted 10 years ago.

    The article you referenced was based on a report from the Greater Halifax Partnership (whose job appears to be to convince business and government that the sky is falling and it’s all government’s fault, so they can get the government to lower taxes and the minimum wage and regulation, and this and that and the other, while at the same time subsidizing this business and that business and the other), with data from post-census estimates and projections (which in turn were fabricated based on the same magically 10 year old 2011 census you just shot down.)

    The estimates and projections are presented as historical facts in the report’s narrative, but they won’t be borne out until the 2016 census, which we won’t see data from until 2017 or 2018.

    (Or more likely, they will have to be drastically revised for all the cities – one thing I know from 10 years working as a statistical & demographic analyst – the projections are ALWAYS wrong. Always.)

    And the recession, really? You think the recession only hit Halifax?

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  14. May I just mention that the Mayor also knows nothing about how university tuition works (which, to his credit, he admits). International students are charged more because that’s the cost of education. Universities are subsidized – but it we only get dollars from the gov’t for our domestic students. Not our international ones. And typically international students use more campus resources than domestic, as well – support services, etc – there’s a whole extra department built to support them. So there’s that. Of course, we do hope they’ll stay and help populate the maritimes, they’re educated, have created ties, have some understanding of the culture, so they’re prime targets. There are residency options targeted specifically to international students for that reason. But, the federal gov’t has recently made changes and cut the #s they’re allowing in any given year. Ah, red tape.

    And then – BBQ! How fun! ;p

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  15. @Jammie Data that was collected beginning in 2006, 2007 was nearly 10 years ago. You said data collected between 2006 and 2011. I can’t imagine how anyone could argue that there is not and has not been a phenomenal demographic decline in the maritime provinces since 2008, especially Halifax and Nova Scotia. While there may have been a recession in the rest of Canada as well, areas from Toronto westward to Vancouver have the ability to continue creating good quality private sector employment as they are doing. Nova Scotia, arguably, went well beyond recession to a depression. As far as job creation and demographic decline, even in Halifax, it’s still there. The economy of Halifax and Nova Scotia is struggling to create low quality, low paying part-time work. If you can find anything at all in Halifax it’s usually retail and call centre which is why everyone leaves.

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  17. “I can’t imagine how anyone could argue that there is not and has not been a phenomenal demographic decline in the maritime provinces since 2008, especially Halifax and Nova Scotia.”

    You don’t have to imagine anything at all. Just look at the facts, instead of making things up.

    Nobody is denying a demographic decline in the Maritime provinces generally.

    But the population (actual census count) of Halifax grew – somewhat slowly – from 372,679 people in 2006 to 390,096 in 2011, the last census, only three years ago – not ten. That’s an increase of 17,417 people in five years, or an average of nearly 3,500 per year. (Note that the post census estimate, which is an approximation of how many people were missed in the actual census count, puts the 2011 population at 402,400, a difference of 1.03%.)

    Population estimates for 2013, based on the post-census estimates – i.e. calculations performed on these same data – predict that the population will have increased to 408,700.

    Another increase. Not a decrease.

    That’s what the official, scientific, government approved data demonstrate. (To be fair, it is likely that the projection will be either too high or too low, but we won’t know for sure until 2017.)

    You can continue to insist that it’s not true, with no evidence whatsoever, but it doesn’t make it untrue.

    Are there young people leaving? Sure. But there are people coming too. And the net result is MORE people overall, not fewer. Halifax is growing, not shrinking.

    Look around. Look at the cranes.

    Look at the income stats, as discussed below. Your story of woe is not borne out by the datas. You’re making it up.

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  19. Halifax’s population dwindling? That mystifies me, considering all the new condos, apartment buildings and subdivisions that are being built in all of HRM. And they seem to get occupied fairly quickly.

    Let’s also dispose of one 20th century notion: that population growth equals economic growth. The majority of countries in the world have disproved that idea. What matters is education, and higher productivity, and higher individual wealth. It’s the traditional industries that foster the idea that the more people you’ve got, the better off we all are….that’s not the case. Not if most of them are struggling to make ends meet.

    @Tanman: your idea about clawbacks to CPP if a person never had children is offensive. So I work all my life in high-paying jobs paying a shitload of tax, but don’t have kids (I have step kids), I’m already being punished through the tax system by people having babies ands me subsidizing that, and then in retirement I get punished again for not having spawned a replacement worker?

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  20. This ‘we need people’ thing is mystifying me as well. I often wonder who the fuck is filling all of those new apartments and condos. Seriously, look at those buildings and houses going up on your way to the BLIP. Where the fuck do those people come from?

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  21. I’m kind’ve amazed The Coast editorial team haven’t fixed the “dwindling population” headline, which is, as a bunch of us have pointed out, wrong.

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  22. @dododa

    Well, you’re wrong about your first point (Ottawa still has higher incomes than the western cities). You’re also wrong that employment in high-paying hobs in Halifax are always public sector—there is a robust private sector here, whether you believe it or not.

    BUT, there’s no doubt that you’re right about the young out-migration in 2013. We had a really bad year for population growth (albeit, still growth) and a lot of young families leaving, and taking a lot of their under-18 kids with them, which is bad news for future working-aged people.

    But here’s the original report from the Greater Halifax Partnership: http://www.greaterhalifax.com/en/agh_home/…

    It repeatedly states that previous years saw much higher youth retention and good levels of population growth. The 2013 numbers are a total reversal of the long-term trends we’ve been seeing for years. So we can’t say it means Halifax is in bad shape—it could be an aberrant and bad year. Of course Haligonians are quick to cry “doom, doom!”. But let’s not prepare to wind down the city just yet.

    First and second-quarter numbers for 2014 still look worse than 2012, but much better than 2013.

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  26. @dododa

    Okay, so Ottawa has fallen to number three. That’s a change from the 2011 data I was using.

    Now you’re just nitpicking, though. It doesn’t have anything to do with the fundamental point I made earlier—incomes in Halifax are just dandy. And as far as “quality private sector employment” being “hard to find”, I must disagree.

    Check out the Toronto Board of Trade’s recent Scorecard on Prosperity, created with Conference Board of Canada data. http://www.bot.com/advocacy/Documents/Scor…

    It ranks a bunch of global cities on economic measures, Halifax being one. We come in pretty well on many measures—including GDP, employment growth, and housing affordability. (Page 28, 29, 45).

    Our household disposable incomes are also only barely lower than Toronto (which is skewed upwards by a bunch of high-finance millionaires anyway) and our disposable income levels are middle of the pack, and ahead of Vancouver and Montreal. More importantly, we rank very highly in GROWTH of disposable income. We’re coming up fast.

    But to your point, we rank exactly in the middle on labour attractiveness. And our overall economic rank moved from a C in 2010 to a B in 2014.

    Nope, not Calgary levels. But quite decent.

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  27. Yo Pigeon,

    It’s agreed here “dwindling” was a poor choice of verb. A funny writer might shrug-off your criticisms with some gangly prose on how we are all of us dwindling, decaying in this great entropy of existence. I’m a poor writer, not a funny one.

    We left the wording as it was because 1) It doesn’t impact or change Mike’s thoughts on the city (which is what the piece is really about) and 2) It’s good to be called on shit we frig up. These comments, and the discussion they’ve created, are encouraged. Keep it up, all!

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  28. Halifax needs JOBS! Something beside call centre and kitchen prep. All those students – and no jobs. Building conference centres – so people from other cities that have jobs can come here briefly for conferences. Maybe the people in kitchen prep will get to make a few more sandwiches.

    How about some industry for Halifax?. So the graduating students do not have to move ELSEWHERE to find a job. Politicians can lure industry here if they have the imagination and will.

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  29. The economy is being deliberately destroyed by the Ecology Action Center and their fart catchers who are very open about it, they loudly and proudly proclaim in this newspaper that we must degrow the economy in order to save humanity

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  30. why would any immigrant want to settle in Nova Scotia when we’re under the bootheels of the Ecology Action Center hens Cat Arbeau and Jennifer Worst?

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