I saw on the news yesterday that young offenders cannot now be sentenced as adults unless the prosecutor in the case can somehow prove that they should be sentenced as such. Let’s say a young offender commits a crime of sufficient seriousness (let’s say murder). Does a prosecutor have to have proof of adult intent in a case such as this? What is the use of law if those laws have no teeth in them? Young offenders should be charged and treated as adults (with identities published). Then you will see youth crime statistics go down. It is the bleeding heart component of our society that has taken the teeth out of our laws. If you do the crime be preparded to do the the time.
This article appears in May 15-21, 2008.
Imagine if somebody decided you were such a bad child bad that you aught to be treated like an adult. Insanity at it’s finest!I have yet to meet a ‘child’ with ‘adult intent’ anywhere. In the most extreme examples of misbehaving teenagers we see them leading lives of frustration then ultimately bringing guns to school to shoot off their misdirected anger at everybody and then themselves. How a reaction to peers/society of this magnitude constitutes a conclusion of ‘adult intent’ is soooooo fucked I wonder how any parent can stand by and watch. Ultimately these stupid kids are forced to live another 70 or so years with you fucks constantly reminding or punishing them because of teenaged stupidity.’Adult intent’ would require a mature thinker behind the wheel. Just look at what these kids do and you’ll see, as bad as they are, they’re certainly NOT adults. They don’t look like adults, think like adults, feel like adults so how one concludes an action consistent with adult behavior (as if murder is adult behavior) is actually motivated by ‘adult intent’ is right out of left field and seriously grasping at straws.Why don’t we hold parents accountable for their children’s behavior? We all know bad kids are the result of bad parenting. If you want to see youth crime stats go down, hold the parents accountable, not stupid kids.OP, I heartily disagree with your apathy and lack of empathy.*Shaking my head in disbelief*If a child holds down a job for a while shouldn’t that also be construed as ‘adult intent’. If that’s the case then children should also be able to work for adult minimum wages, be allowed to file taxes, get the Employment credit, vote, be allowed to enter into a contract, etc. Hell, why not just do away with child protection and youth offender laws all together…? You dumb ass. Smarten up!
Kay by part of your logic adults who commit murder should be taken care of by the Young Offenders Act.No. Certain crimes are just too heinous even when committed by minors or adults with childish reasons to just let them get away so lightly.The idea of parenting and schooling besides educating children, is to put some notion of responsibility in them. The way the young offenders act is setup now takes a lot of that out of the equation.That just makes things worse.
The root of the problem, I think, is what we call rehabilitation. Young minds are not at all like adult minds, physically nor emotionally. Affective learning/rehabilitation is achieved in different ways for different groups/types of problems/people. I would even go so far as to say youth in general population prisons (an adult consequence) designed for adults endangers the child and his or her potential for successful rehabilitation into our society.We do wrong by our children by punishing them in this way. Instead of providing an environment where young minds can learn and participate in a way that would correct their thinking and prepare them for society the OP would have all of them, instead, learn from seasoned criminals, tougher, scarier and more dangerous than anybody else in our society. Letting our youth anywhere near adults whom behave in this way is quite detrimental to the rehabilitation effort, don’t you think? Makes a bad situation worse, doesn’t it? Toss the baby out with the bath water, huh? Add some fuel to the fire? We have a lot of cliches to describe such stupid thinking.The point is, these kids have their whole lives in front of them yet. If you want to be a better carpenter, learn from a skilled carpenter. If you want to be a better criminal, learn from seasoned criminals.I think the OP and John have a bigger problem with what we term rehabilitation rather than trial/sentencing practices, as do I.
Kay, you’ve got to be kidding me.The recent decision was that prosecutors now have to prove that someone convicted of one of several violent crimes (ie murder, aggravated sexual assault, etc) deserve to be sentenced as an adult instead of a youth. Forgive me for having no empathy for a convicted violent criminal, regardless of their age.After a certain point, it’s not about rehabilitation, it’s about protecting law abiding citizens. Don’t kid yourself, if some dumbass kid is doing something that’ll get them charged as an adult, they’re probably already working for other criminals. And why not? They can get busted for the same thing and get a slap on the wrist.Sure, kids can make mistakes, and that’s what the Young Offenders Act was brought in to address, so that they can sort themselves out and move on. In reality, lots of kids abuse it and run wild because the consequences are pretty light. I know of a lot of people that did that. But joyriding is not comparable to shooting someone.People are fucking sick of hearing stories about people getting swarmed by groups of teens (who can easily be adult sized), or shit like that old lady that got beaten in the Commons, or those three girls that tortured the other one for several hours. Ridiculous fucking rulings like this one won’t help anything. All this is actually doing is clogging up the justice system further.I think this is just another example of the Charter being misused to overturn a law established by the elected representatives in Parliament.Here’s a link to a cbc article on what the judgement was;http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/16/scoc-onus.htmlOn an ironic note, one of the articles in the sidebar was about the 2006 rate for youths accused of homicide was the highest ever, and violent youth crime is on a steady rise. (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/16/youth-crime.html)
Well Pete, you make a good argument for capital punishment. Why bother paying for a lifetime of incarceration since rehabilitation is not on the agenda for these kids?I repeat, they don’t look like adults, think like adults, feel like adults so how one concludes an action consistent with adult behavior is actually motivated by ‘adult intent’ is right out of left field.I’m not saying set them free and don’t punish them. I’m saying we aught to deliver appropriate and effective rehabilitation treatment. YOU go to jail for 3 years less a day and see if it’s an effective deterrent for you! YOU lose ALL your peers because you can no longer attend school and call that a slap on the wrist. Heck, take away a kid’s Nintendo and you have all the power you could want over them. Throwing them in jail with rapists and murderers alike dooms them to a lifetime of cyclical behavior because their thinking is never corrected. I’m not kidding. I’m all for fixing the problem, not hiding it in a prison designed for the worst of the worst of our society. To actually prevent the problem we’d make parents responsible for their children’s behavior.
The beauty of the story is that the Supreme Court of Canada agrees with me, “The Supreme Court’s decision on Friday affirms the idea that teens, particularly those aged 14 to 17, should be presumed less morally culpable for their crimes than adults and therefore have a constitutional right to be treated differently.”
to suggest that a kid that is 17 isnt of adult mind to commit and adult crime, what is about a birthday that gives him that knowledge?Under kay’s logic, if your birthday is next week and you turn 17, but kill someone, they couldnt have possibly been mature enough….. but if the same crime happened a week and a half later….. he is mature enough and should be sentanced like an adult?
yeah, Kay’s logic and the Supreme Court of Canada’s and the founders of our constitution… what a bunch of dopes, eh?
Which is why the courts should allow minors to be tried as adults. Kay, the argument is being appealed in the supreme court. Kids will be charged as adults again, until they have a complete revamping of the Youth act.
and kay, you didnt answer the question of what it is about someone’s 18 birthday that gives them the maturity to be deemed an adult? If the crime is commited a week before, they wouldnt have had that maturity correct?
It hardly matters what you or I think, Homie. THE LAW defines what a minor is. Besides, I have yet to meet an 18 year old who behaves thinks or looks like a mature adult but the law has reduced the age from 21 to 19 to 18… you think they should just keep going? I don’t and either does the Supreme Court of Canada..
And Homnie, there’s an appeal to the Supreme Court BECAUSE they did not agree with the proposed change… I’ll quote it again for you:”The Supreme Court’s decision on Friday affirms the idea that teens, particularly those aged 14 to 17, should be presumed less morally culpable for their crimes than adults and therefore have a constitutional right to be treated differently.”
Personally, I think if a person close to the age of majority does a stupid stupid thing their age aught to be considered with respect to the principals behind the YOA. You’re right! Just because a person is 18 and a day doesn’t make them a mature adult. Fortunately we live in a land where the spirit of the law takes precedence over the letter of the law.
Hey, i think discretion should be used….. they had a better system with the nature of the crime and the record being a factor or not. the current set in stone of 18 is pointless, it endorses crime outfits to use minors to commit more offenses uptill the 18th birthday.
the founders of the constitution had nothing to do with the YOA. and the appeal was based on the charter, which is only 30 years old or so.Fortunately the majority of Canadians are pissed about this, so this’ll lead to laws getting rewritten, so the supreme court can fuck off.
Serious crimes and repeat offenders should be treated as a adults. Any kid that can walk and talk knows right from wrong. Repeat offenders should know better after the first time.I do believe that the spirit of this law was to not have young peoples careers/futures ruined by stealing bubble gum and smashing windows, for things they have done before being an adult. I do not think it was designed for the young people to start dealing drugs and being thugs before they became an adult. It was not to enable them to get a way with murder. The bleeding hearts lost focus of what the law was intended for. Stupid law in the first place, if they had have walked the straight and narrow they would not have to worry about criminal records. Another reason to behave.