I’m so sick of this bullshit where Halifax’s lower income areas—such as the north end—continue to be vilified whereas the south end (AKA wealthier area) is consistently portrayed as the land of rainbows and butterflies.
Case in point: I was on the CBC website this morning checking out the NS news. The headlines:
“Halifax sleepwatching trial focuses on identity”
vs
“Man stabbed at Gottingen St. apartment”
I’d hazard a guess that journalists realize that the first headline is in fact about a long series of high-profile, creepy and disturbing incidents that have taken place in the land of sunshine (AKA south end) over the past 7 YEARS (at least).
Whereas the latter, although also horrific, is a one-off incident that sounds very much like a domestic dispute gone bad…but it happened in a place on Gottingen Street, so we absolutely NEED to mention that.
If we didn’t, by golly, people wouldn’t know that they need to stay away from the area!
I could give countless other examples (ie media always specifying “Spryfield” or “Dartmouth” or wherever but when shit happens in Waverley or Bedford, it’s simply called “Halifax”)
but I think you get the point. —Living in the Land of Drugs, Guns and Junkies, Apparently
This article appears in Nov 1-7, 2012.
South End? You mean the part of the city with all the Asians?
http://www.epiclol.com/cdn/pictures/2011/0…
North End? You mean the part of the city with all of the Hipsters?
http://whitsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/20…
I don’t even bother trying anymore. It’s sad really…
You yourself describe the North end as one of Halifax’s low income area and the South end as the land of rainbows and butterflies… so why complain when others do that too?
The North end continues to be the Land of Drugs, Guns and Junkies – the proof of such is evident. And as I’ve lived there for the last 10 years – having moved there from the sunshine, rainbows and butterflies – I stand as witness to the drugs, guns and junkies (and hookers – don’t forget the hookers!).
I’ll bet you get upset when people call you names too, eh?! Well get over it – they are just names…
South end isn’t rainbows… it’s loud, obnoxious, drunk kids fucking up the city every weekend. At least in Fairview, the shanked victims die without screaming bloody murder all night long. If you live in what you perceive are described as bad parts of town but are in fact suitable for you then you should be happy… because that perceived notion will keep your rent lower. Hell, I’ll deride Fairview until I’m blue in the face if it takes 50 bucks a month off….
Embrace living in a hell-hole in a shit part of town.
At least you can live there without roommates or going bankrupt.
Well if a murder happened in the South end on tower road, I am sure that they would say it happened in the South end on Tower Rd. They are always mentioning Gottingen/Fairview/Spryfield/North End/Highfield/Preston
because that is usually where the majority of violence takes place. The sterotype exists because there is some truth to it. They aren’t going to say “There was a murder somewhere in the HRM and we are not going to tell you where.”
I grew up in the ‘worst parts’ of hamilton ontario, i lived for 5 1/2 yrs in the ‘bowels of toronto’ seriously? come on, Gottington is actually a nice area if your looking for a library (Halifax North Memorial), a ymca to find job finding help, a nice relaxing meal in a safe soup kitchen (Hope Cottage) I actually enjoy it in that area, no pretentious snobby bastards! (lacewood terminal area, mic mac mall, HSC, spring garden street, downtown,, many more places i could name, Halifax MIGHT be the biggest city east of quebec, but you aint shit compared to toronto, vancouver, calgary, edmonton, ottawa, victoria, montreal, quebec city, so get your noses outta the air!! & quit thinking your something SPECIAL, QUIT dumping on those of us that CHOOSE to LIVE in Dartmouth, east ot north dartmouth, north Halifax, Spyfield, WHATEVER, its this kind of attitude that got our current recently elected lame duck city council, & already proven to be crooked mayor!!) I love St Mary’s Basilica at Spring Garden & Barrington, they are great for decent food on wkdays 1:30-3pm, a very safe place to eat, read a good book, get your hair cut, volunteer, get clothing & just chill out for a few hours, with friends in a relaxed atmosphere, soup kitchens in hamilton are very dangerous, nasty horrible food, (slop at best at Good Shepard hamilton on mary street) here in halifax/dartmouth i find decent people, decent food, & friendly staff & bus drivers..
at least here, we dont have to have massive shields between the bus passengers & drivers, creating hostility & negative attitudes on both sides, at least our bus drivers here are friendly for the most part!! BTW HALIFAX SNOBS, DARTMOUTH has a KICK-ASS Bus Terminal!! your stuck with lacewood, mumford & scotia square, all are cold, UGLY & nasty at night!!!
your stuck with the garbage that flows outta student housing every June & September! Your stuck with the route 80, full of drunken teenagers & snotty Dalhousie & St Mary’s & St Vincent, students!, & btw you are stuck with Bayers Lake, no sidewalks, no ability for transit users to SAFELY do their shopping, we at least have Dartmouth Crossing & Cole Harbour!!
so kiss our ferry wake!!
I am PROUD to be in East Dartmouth, I am PROUD to LOVE DARTMOUTH, at least we are not pretentious, arrogant SNOBS!!
chill emily, i’m glad you like where you live. hamilton would not be my choice either
Are you kidding me??? Dartmouth is downright depressing..and your downtown sucks.When they still had the old terminal, I swear every other person I would see waiting for the bus looked like something that just crawled out of a cheesy 80’s video. Now at least the terminal is big enough that the odd time I have to go there, I can escape the freaks if I need to.And are you kidding me? Gottigen street?? I lived in that neighborhood for 3 years, and lemme tell ya, it is NOT nice in any way,shape or form.
o.p., those that have it, have a lot. those that don’t have it, are called thieves, welfare bums, or sprytowners. simple as that.
When they give nicknames to high crime areas, I’ll stay clear. Gottagun Street, Maniac Sqaure, Highcrime Park, Scareview. Anyone have anymore?
@ Mister Meaty, you’ve missed the point:
“You yourself describe the North end….and the south end as the land of butterflies…why complain when others do that too?”
It’s called sarcasm.
I will give you credit in that I did over generalize the North End as lower income and that’s not necessarily true. I was merely trying to point out that in many people’s eyes, it is (they see Uniacke Square, Gottingen St, etc. and that exemplifies the entire area). Also was contrasting it with people’s views of the South End.
I happen to live in the North End and love it, have no qualms about living here. I’ve lived in both NEnd and SEnd and prefer the North.
And I also happen to work in Spryfield, in community development so I see the ugly but also the beautiful. It’s also a great community – imagine, a place that actually has a sense of community!
Of course it’s got its fair share of challenges(!) – but it consistently and unfairly gets a horrible rap. Naturally, many of you that dump on places such as Spryfield have probably never even set foot there.
“I’ll bet you get upset when people call you names too, eh?! Well get over it – they are just names…”
Uh, yeah, I think on any given day most people would be irritated/annoyed – perhaps even upset – if called names…. particularly when those names are not justified and particularly when those names completely nullify any positive things happening. Especially if a person, or a community, is doing all kinds of wonderful things but all that ever seems to be mentioned is the negative, no matter how small.
[little hint: that’s what I’m bitching about]
I mean, give me a fucking break here. Are you seriously trying to claim superiority because you’re inferring that you’re not bothered AT ALL when people are unfairly slinging names at you? Wow. You must be special.
Bad shit happens everywhere and yes, in some places more often than others. But WHY is it necessary to constantly specify the neighbourhood or street (ie Gottingen) in the headline when it’s in a part of Halifax that has a reputation for crime, whereas in areas with (unfairly) *squeaky clean* reputations, it’s almost always simply, “Halifax” or “Halifax area” in the headline? I call bullshit.
K, rant over.
how about slayton park,hurting cove road.
I’ve heard the Sleepwatcher called the “South End Sleepwatcher” many times in the news. They don’t list ALL the streets he’s been spotted on because I think the “Birmingham-South-College-Queen-etc Sleepwatcher” is a little ridiculous. I now live downtown, used to live in the North End. I hated it there, just wasn’t for me. In fact, I found tons of these pretentious people there you’re going on about – people like some commenting here who get filled with rage when they learn someone chooses to live in the South End and assume a bunch of BS about them just because of where they want to live, just like you claim to despise. This is a small city, there are idiots and pricks everywhere, stop kidding yourself.
How “cool” an area’s bus terminal is probably isn’t the best way to judge anything. Portland Hills had a similar (but smaller) bus terminal for years, but Portland Hills is where the rich people live so FUCK DEM right? All bus terminals are gross, filled with coffee cups, empty packs of pepperoni, cigarettes and loogies. I like to judge an area on if I need to add the expense of a car to get around ANYWHERE, like I did when I lived in Cole Harbour.
I choose to live downtown because I can walk absolutely everywhere, I have the choice of three different grocery stores in walking distance, five liquor stores, access to more different types of coffee (I love da coff) than I can even try before dying, close to the Summit HQ, practically every bus route goes near me and I get to take a friggin’ boat to school every day!!
I enjoy the noise – quiet absolutely frightens me. I once stayed in Greenwood when I was younger, was alone in a house and had a panic attack because it was pitch black outside and I couldn’t hear anything but the creeks of the house (or maybe that was a murderer!!). I cried, blasted the radio and locked myself in a room ’til my father and brother came back. Never again will I deal with silence :P.
i come from what may or may not be a unique perspective.. I have lived in both the north and south ends of the city.
The north end was a community. Where a vast cross section of society chose to call home. Doctors, artists, students, professors and sure.. lots of low income and even criminal-minded folks. But nobody ever gave me a lick of trouble in the “ghetto” – not one.
The south end was.. the south end. Mostly students and a few people who didn’t come out of their houses much. I didn’t see anything of my neighbours at all aside from a creepy random ass grab one late night. Yes. In the South End.
Frankly the worst place i’ve ever lived was in the Penhorn area of Dartmouth – and that may have just been the shitty condo psychos i had to contend with until i unloaded my unit.
I don’t have a spec of badness to say about the north end of halifax. Not a spec.
“Never again will I deal with silence :P.”
Heh, probably why I adore my boyfriend ;D
you know what, when the goverment in this province forces disabled/blind (who society decides are unwanted in jobs) people to live on LESS than a lazy welfare bum gets in Ontario, its really hard to live in ‘decent” areas!
IA (income assistance disability pension) only covers $535 for market rent! thats it! I had to fight like crazy to get this apartment, I needed a barrier free access apartment, the cheapest I could find is $575, income assistance were NOT going to let me live here, they wanted me in the north end, in highfield, where 99% of the buldings are ALL STAIRS, i use a support cane as well as my whitecane, i cannot handle stairs.. they also will NOT help you with hydro costs if your rent is above $535..
After paying rent & hydro, I live on $98 a month, that has to include food, & everything else! I’m also diabetic & lactose intolerant, luckily dollarama has soya milk!
also my whitecane costs $36, which again is NOT covered, yet it is how I ‘see’ to get around!! CNIB is the only place you can get a blind cane, & they dont help at all, the only thing they are useful for is my buss pass, ( most IA recipints, get a $70 stipend for a metrotransit buspass, blind people dont get that, due to our cnib pass)
luckily, I got married last month, we live on $1044, thats it… its gotta include everything, he is lactose intolarent as well as being legally blind himself, as well as physically disabled..
so, after rent, of $575+ $55 for hydro, we have $414.. its a lot easier, but as we have a lot of bills from the wedding & having to give my cell phone contract, we have $54 to live on after bills, food of $125, laundry, home phone & basic internet (bus service is awful, & we’re not near a library also the accessible tech is so old at the library, it barely will go on the iunternet!)..
We are working on getting into subsidized housing, but its a long wait..
THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM
Well, why DO “stereotypes continue to exist”? Could it be that they reflect reality? And what reality might that be? The reality that they reflect is the reality of class. Among certain groups, to speak of class distinctions is inappropriate, improper and not to be countenanced. But the fact is that class in Halifax exists. For these groups one must pretend otherwise. In other words, it is “the elephant in the room.”
Whether or not one approves of it or whether one likes the particular area in which one lives is irrelevant. Socially speaking, Halifax is a class-structured city. The basis of that class structure is the same as in other cities. Principal among class markers is income but even this is not simply as straightforward as it seems. “Old money” – wealth that has passed down several generations – will always trump “new money” and, moreover, the old money should come from established institutions in the professions. In Halifax, old money principally means partnerships in established law firms – Dalhousie Law School of course. Look through the yellow pages. See any well-known Halifax families? Guess what they do? That’s right, they practice law but not just any law. They are partners in the old law firms.
There are other class markers, of course. Does the family have a summer cottage in Chester, preferably on “the peninsula”? (If you have to ask, you’re not high class.) Do they winter in Palm Beach? Do they belong to the right clubs? The Royal Nova Scotia Yacht Squadron? The Saraguay Club? The Halifax Club? And so on.
But a more visible Halifax class marker is the region of Halifax in which they live. The bitcher refers to “the south end” but this betrays an ignorance of the subtleties of the area. The south end is not homogeneous. The elite of Halifax don’t live in “the south end,” they live in “THE SOUTH END,” an area roughly, bordering the Northwest Arm from Marlborough Woods to Birchdale Avenue and delimited, roughly, by Young Avenue to Jubilee Road.
That is “THE SOUTH END.” Get used to it.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Funny post 🙂
Yes worry about the names and stereotypes but don’t worry about people posting statements such as
“South End? You mean the part of the city with all the Asians?
http://www.epiclol.com/cdn/pictures/2011/0…“
which is offensive really, and the fact that a crooked mayor was just elected!
Or the fact that we have the highest crime per capita yet you see a lot of police presence on the streets (makes you wonder how this equation established itself).
Regarding that whole thing with the voyeurist, from what I heard in the news is that they actually investigated this guy back in Sept 2011 and found videos of women that he filmed and women’s items of clothing and photos of women that he took, in his residence.
The police actually found all this back in Sept 2011 according to the news on the radio.
He was never charged. You tell me, WTF was he doing out in the streets since then?
There have been multiple incidents reported of such things since Sept 2011. Why wasn’t he arrested? Why wasn’t he tracked and monitored?
Honestly I feel that this whole place is the same. Regardless of where you are.
Burning crosses on front lawns in Windsor. Parents killing their own children and vice versa in rural NS.
What I’ve noticed is that the people that love it most here are the less fortunate ones.
I don’t know why less fortunate either. Schools are free so you didn’t have to drop out of high school. There are jobs that one can put up with (I did) while obtaining higher education (expensive I know but you make due and make the right choice). Some days I had to make choices between food and rent. I chose rent but that didn’t stop me from getting up daily and going to school 7am and finishing at 4:00pm, and then heading to work at 5:00pm until 12am! What makes a place are the people that live in it.
Unfortunately this place is garbage and it attracts garbage. Even our education system is shot. We have a lot of universities but based on research any university outside of this province actually uses better equipment and provide better education.
This is coming from the mouths of Masters students currently attending local universities.
A lot couldn’t think of a worst experience.
So Kelifax, the whole province is a stereotype.
It all depends whether you try to ignore it and make the best of it like our elegant friend Emily Green, or give yourself cancer constantly thinking about how terrible it is.
Most people choose the first option because they can’t face reality and the fact that their place or residence is in constant recession and run by crooks who don’t give a crap about the well being and safety of their public that elected them!
Randomness, The Sleepwatcher has been charged and has been in custody since September 2011. His trial is going on now. I predict he’ll get a stern talking to, the best deterrent for sex offenders, and be forced to do community service, like doing the laundry at a women’s shelter or something.
It is definitely way overblown, but it’s not just here. The media all over the world likes to sell fear. I hung around the North End of Dartmouth for many years, lived there and/or frequented it on a regular basis. I’ve never once had a problem, even when I was out late up to no good. I’d venture that downtown Halifax on a Saturday night is an easier place to get in trouble than any given night in any part of Dartmouth, unless you’re a criminal.
I’ll take Pinecrest or Highfield or Windmill, shit even Lakecrest over Spryfield or Gottigen any day. I do kind of take exception to Halifax’ers shitting on Dartmouth as if it’s all one big huge housing project. Halifax I’m pretty sure, correct me if I’m wrong, has a higher crime rate. The areas that look nice are only affordable to the elite and the places that are affordable are ancient rickety dumps. There are some really nice areas of Dartmouth that middle class people can afford to live in. That’s why my parents decided to settle here. They’re not poor, far from it. They just thought it kind of crazy to pay almost triple what their house cost for the privilege of living on the peninsula.
I think I’d rather live in Dartmouth than in the West End or Clayton Park, too. But that’s partially because I don’t like being too far from friends or family. Also because it’s really just as far from downtown as a place in Dartmouth is and costs way more. I just don’t see the benefit.
If you didn’t grow up in one of these “bad” areas I don’t blame you for not wanting to move there. Just don’t cast judgement on it like you know what you’re talking about.
I am going to be on the market for a place soon though, and I won’t rule Halifax out, but I’m not paying an arm and a leg just so I can say I live on the right side of the bridge. Definitely not living in Sackville, the Passage or Cole Harbor though. Fuck that. Maybe Bedford, but I’ll probably end up back in the good old NED. These people who get murdered that you see on the news don’t work at Costco, they’re drug dealing scumbags. I did know a guy who got killed who was a decent law-abiding guy, I’m not saying it’s the safest place on earth, but it’s not anywhere near as bad as a lot of people will have you believe. Every case I’ve ever heard of someone getting shot, turns out they were a criminal.
Haha, Zzzz, good point and Randomness you’re right about the Asian stereotypes, just could only take on one thing at a time and Meaty had my name all over it.
No, m_kegg, they really don’t – which is what irks me (esp when I wrote the bitch), and that’s what I see as a double standard. Those who write the stories are also human, with their own prejudices. That will come out in what they write, just like it does for the rest of us – myself included. Why is that so difficult for some of you to accept?
And Depeche_Mel – not sure exactly what it is about my posts that has your hackles up? Sounds like you’ve already lumped me into your “pretentious category”.
Do you seriously think I believe any part of Halifax – including the North End – is perfect?? That I don’t realize there are *idiots and pricks everywhere*?
Yes, I’m sure there was stuff all over the local media re: “South End Sleepwatcher” but I’m talking here about the CBC specifically. I should have clarified that, but honestly the same is often true for our local news media outlets, too. The provincial section of CBC gives a snapshot of what’s going on in a province and I believe what they were/have been showing is what I was bitching about initially.
Of course there are often some truths to stereotypes, I’m not saying there isn’t.
I guess TommyJules expressed perfectly what I failed to,
“If you didn’t grow up in one of these “bad” areas I don’t blame you for not wanting to move there. Just don’t cast judgement on it like you know what you’re talking about.”
Yeah, along with selling fear, they’re biased. They package their own bias up as the whole truth, and too many buy it up as such. That’s my issue here.
MMan, class exists everywhere, not just in Halifax. We get that.
But you’re wrong when you say that stereotypes reflect reality; they don’t.
In part, they reflect a very specific reality – often the mainstream. There’s a difference.
I wasn’t singling you out Kelifax, there are others on here saying bad things about the South End, like we’re all dirty snobs
For all those Mel stalkers out there, she pretty much just gave up her location.
I should know since I think she lives about a block away or less from where I first lived when I moved here.
It’s pretty convenient… but much more pricey.
With the difference in rent moving out to Fairview or Spryfield, you would be able to afford an economy sized car payment. Maybe not the tags, plate, safety, insurance, gas, maintenance… but the car itself is a start.
I should also note I visited a couple friends out in highfield…
very nice, cheap places down that street.
two bedroom, ensuite bath through the walk-in closet, a balcony AND and fireplace…
Same price as my bare-bones shit-hole.
If they had a better bus route to get me to work, that’s certainly where I’d be…. just not on the ground floor.
WHAT IS REALITY, AND DO STEREOTYPES REFLECT IT?
RSVP
: kelifax 11/09, 10:01AM)
“But you’re wrong when you say that stereotypes reflect reality; they don’t. In part, they reflect a very specific reality – often the mainstream. There’s a difference.” kelifax
One reads kelifax’s convoluted reasoning with considerable confusion. First he claims that stereotypes don’t reflect “reality” and it is just wrong to suppose that the do. But why don’t stereotypes reflect kelifax’s “reality”? We never learn. kelifax just asserts it, never demonstrates it.
Next, however, kelifax reveals that stereotypes do, in fact, reflect “reality” but the difference is that it’s only a “very specific reality.” Now this is interesting. Will kelifax distinguish his “reality”, on the one hand, from his “very specific reality,” on the other? Is there a progression such that, over time, his “very specific reality” expands and morphs into his “reality” as such? Where does one end and the other begin? Or are kelifax’s “reality” and his “very specific reality” stable ontological constructs which will never change? Kelifax does not explain.
Next – and here things get even more confusing – it appears that kelifax’s “very specific reality” ceases to be very specific but becomes “mainstream reality”. So kelifax’s ontological constructs – his “reality” and his “very specific reality” – are not stable and unchanging but mobile such that the one can indeed morph into the other.
Next – and here things get even more confusing still – kelifax maintains that even though his “very specific reality” can morph into his “reality” as such – there’s a “difference.” But what is this difference? What is going on? Is kelifax’s global ontology itself entering a meltdown stage?
Watch this space.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
ZED STALKS ME
how come no one stalks me? i’ll take celery, pls. keep that triticali away.
I used to live in those buildings, Zed. Loved it. Only problem is they are heated with electricity which costs a small fortune. So if you’re gonna live there you better be buyin lots of wood, which is a hassle to get to an apartment, although there are elevators. I was on the top floor and I could even see the Bedford fireworks. Luxury!
The rest of the buildings in Highfield are kind of shitty though, for the most part. Still not as bad as some in North End Hali or other parts of Dartmouth, and the price is right.
I’d really like to find a decent modern place where they include the heat and hot water in your rent. Are those still out there?
WHAT IS REALITY, AND DO STEREOTYPES REFLECT IT? (II)
Well, nothing so far from kelifax and the relationship between reality and its stereotypes.
The reason is that he lacked a coherent definition of reality and his project of specifying a relation between it and its stereotypes, as a consequence, collapsed. In other words some coherent definition of reality, some coherent ontology must be established before one can examine whether or not those stereotypes actually reflect it. In still other words, stereotypes presuppose reality in terms of which such stereotypes acquire coherence and it is, of course, at that fundamental level of coherence which kelifax so clearly failed the test.
But you never know. Perhaps he is re-grouping preparatory to another attempt.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
you’re not nukka are you, monsieur?
RSVP
: Paingirl (11/09, 4:57PM)
What would make you think so? Do you see a resemblance in our thought processes? What processes might these be? Also, he appears to be without philosophical reflection. He lives at a crude level sensory perception bereft of any higher-order considerations. Since our corresponding linguistic attainments are markedly distinct – indeed, his posts reflect a simian, pre-linguistic level of speech – on what grounds do you determine there to be a similarity? Specify, using examples where possible.
As you can see, the interesting question is not so much whether I resemble him but rather what makes you think I do. In other words, it is YOUR thought processes which are deserving of further scrutiny to determine their degree of conceptual sophistication.
Write back soon.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
well, you have led us on a merry chase before. i was just grasping at straws, carry on
Thanks for that, Mel – I was feeling a little defensive 😉
MM, I would have loved to have replied sooner but unfortunately, I have to work. And (thankfully!) my job doesn’t permit hours in front of a computer.
So here goes on the clarification front….
“But you’re wrong by saying that stereotypes reflect reality…..”
I should have put quotations around the “stereotypes reflect reality” as clearly I was speaking of your words, but initially I took that out of context. I do realize that you’re speaking of the ‘reality of class’.
I think there’s more than just class at play when you’re talking about reality. You might – though it is not clear – imply that one’s ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, able-bodiedness, etc etc is taken into account through the notion of “class”. Then again, you might not.
I think that by saying that “stereotypes reflect the reality of class”, it doesn’t give enough weight to these other aspects of a person (gender, race, sexual orientation, able-bodiedness, intellectual capacity, etc).
I don’t agree with using “class” as a catch-all in this way. I think it diminishes other aspects’ importance in determining how a person experiences their reality/in determining how others thrust their own reality onto others.
As far as my definition of reality, I will go so far as to say that reality will vary based on one’s perspective….though to be sure there is an objective reality at play, too. Can [our reality] shift? Of course; we are dynamic creatures.
Yet there is still an objective reality. And I don’t believe that stereotypes have a justifiable place in an objective reality, though they are certainly right at home in other “realities” [insert sarcasm].
Anyway, I’m honestly not interested in getting into a philosophical debate or a debate about semantics on this message board. I think that’s how you get your kicks, not me.
And for the record, I’m a woman, not a “he” 🙂