I love walking the trails around HRM. Gets me to some interesting places, spaces and yes to work. Been sitting on this one for awhile now, making calls and asking questions. Several months ago, I stopped to chat with a Trail Warden the only to find out the province didn’t build these trails, neither did the city or the feds. Most trails are built by volunteers! They raise money, put in a full work week for free, and the politicians come cut ribbons at trail openings and get all the credit. My words not his. He was just graciously explaining how trails are built and why this one wasn’t finished. Why he couldn’t really do anything about the ATVs trashing the trail or adjacent wilderness.
So who is in charge of the trails? Not the volunteers either, they have to comply with everyone elses rules. DNR, that as I find out contributes NOTHING! not time nor the money. HRM that has this great plan in place but then doesn’t want to actually DO anything? There are staff in place at Fairbanks Centre – what exactly do they do? Why do volunteers put up with all the civil servants shit?
I asked the next pair of trail wardens I found on another trail just why they do it?
That group had two watersheds, a salt marsh, a migratory flight path, a conservation area, trails, a provincial park and a possible municpal park on their hands!
I couldn’t keep up with nearly the stuff they do for us. My original conversation was about idiots on ATVs, the drunks a couple of months ago tearing up the place.
If YOU see anything on the trails around HRM or have a complaint, PLEASE direct it to the local police, or conservation officers 1-800-565-2224. Immediately!
And while we are at it get a Trails Act for the province that works, and some help for these people building the trails, and no the majority of them do not even own ATVs. So I have stopped blaming them for all the ATV’s here in HRM. But I wouldn’t oppose a BYLAW against ATVs in HRM
—walkHRM
This article appears in Aug 20-26, 2009.
I’ll tell you, the best kept area of these “rails to trails” areas in HRM is in the BLT area and the upkeep is entirely done by the local ATV club. HRM buys the pea gravel, and the club spreads it, they clean up the garbage, everything. They also police themselves, and keep to posted speed limits (self imposed by the way) and the everyone in the area, be it pedestrian, cyclist, or ATV shares the path. To the point of the local HRM politicos taking all of the credit, in fact, Reg Rankin has only applauded the local club for it’s tireless work in bring something like that together. My suggestion, OP, you’re encountering a minority situation.
Niether the BLT nor the Bluff Trail are run or supported by any ATV club, and the BLT often has drunk drivers on it. As a matter of fact a few ATV jerks recently had an overnight camping party in the middle of the trail that HRM police refused to address, terrifying adjacent property owners.
Grant these idiots are spoiling it for others, but it is not isolated events I am speaking of. It is constant and continual undermining of healthy environmentally friendly way of using our trails.
I have been meeting ATVs on non-motorized trails and it is time to put a stop to it.
Time to ban motorized trail use within HRM, let them take their expensive machines on the long distance routes outside of the city. But never off motorized trails, especially not in wilderness and protected areas. Google Earth from 2007 shows the mudholes and destruction rather well, for anyone willing to open their eyes and look. Walking through it is even worse.
No isolated events, how many atrocities are going unseen?
The BLT trail was once managed by an ATV group– I believe (not certain) the same group that manages the extension of the BLT, out past the high school and on to Lewis Lake. But that management function (for the BLT portion) was transfered over about four years ago, airc.
I wrote a trail guide a few summers back, here:
http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/hiking-the-…
From what I understand, Tim, upkeep (cleaning up trash, ensuring benches are maintained, etc.) is still maintained by the same ATV club, to what extent, I’m not sure as I’ve not lived in the area for a few years and my info is based upon friends who still live in the area and frequent the trail.
walkHRM— To cite 2 year old satellite photos as your only proof of poor trail conditions, is quite poor proof. That trail, especially after winter, is a mess, more so because of snowmobiles. I do see your point, however.
the practical use of ATVs is quite limited, and recreational activity (bombing through forest trails on an ATV) is not what i would consider legitmate use of our public land. the environmental destruction, pollution, noise, etc caused by these machines is becoming worse every year.
imo, ATVs should never be allowed on our public trails (not for recreation at least), because ATVs are harmful to the environment, forest ecosystem, etc… and they are a public nuisance.
“”the practical use of ATVs is quite limited””
Indeed it currently is, and so therefore I’m sure you’ll be happy to support the movement to expand that, and allow limited use of these vehicles as actual on-road transpotation…as in parts of Europe…provided they have insurance and safety lighting.
What is it about North Americans that think the only solution to gas-guzzling SUV’s is public transport or hobblinbg along the snow-covered streets on a bi-cycle?!
Tiny, efficient 2, 3 and 4 -wheel vehicles have been used for YEARS in other parts of the world where fuel is scarce (as it will be here too one day, sooner than later!) Sometimes I think Canadians should be forced to do grade 12 in a third world country…like India where tiny motorized vehicles dominate the streetscape…or parts of Belize where EVERYBODY uses and ATV!
It’s time to open our roads to small vehicles with small engines…I got a 40 lb mini-bike, and I’m ready to join the revolution…it goes anywhere your bi-cycle can on a cup of gas…but you want to “ban” it, why?
Why don’t you admit you have a bias?
Then who has the right to the trails, Tech?
@frosty – i didn’t say ‘ban’ ATVs – i just don’t like them being used for ‘recreation’ in our wildnerness areas; motorized vehicles have a detrimental environmental & ecological impact, plus the horrific noise and pollution they make in QUIET wilderness areas. there are exceptions for legitimate ATV use, like agriculture, search/rescue, and other special situations where an ATV is warranted. recreational use is not justifiable imv, particularly on public land (parks, trails, etc). on private land, do whatever the hell you want, although burning gas just to bomb around on an ATV seems like ridiculous waste of time/money/fuel to me.
i have no objections to smaller vehicles on our roads, in fact, that sounds like a good idea to me. as for ATVs though, i don’t believe they meet emission & safety standards for road use, not yet anyway. but yeah, bring on the smaller vehicles, i’m all for that.
and yes, i DO have a ‘bias’ – i’m in favour of *sustainable* modes of transportation (gasoline powered vehicles are not sustainable).
Fever, there are already plenty of options for those who prefer to get themselves around in motorized vehicles.
please leave our wilderness areas alone… they are practically the only refuge we have nowadays, where we can go to get some peace & quiet. the last thing i want to see & hear are a bunch of yahoos bombing around in our wilderness parks/trails, tearing up the forest and scaring the b’jesus out of hikers & nature lovers. and don’t give me any crap about ATV’rs being ‘into nature’, they are NOT, otherwise they would bring only themselves into the forest, not their motorized vehicles, polluting everywhere they go with exhaust fumes, noise and destroying everything in their path.
with very few exceptions, ATVs do not belong in our wilderness areas.
yes the trails are really put in by volunteers, and most of them are, believe it or not, atv’ers. and everyday these same people get shit delivered to them, for riding on something they had a hand in creating. i used to be a member of rails to trails in bridgewater. i put in my time, and afterward, when it was finished, drove my bike on it one day, for about 5 minutes. you wanna hear the bullshit going then. noisy, stinky, loud, careless, you name it. now don’t get me wrong,but who plows these fucking things in the winter, when the snow is up yo your ass, atv’ers, that’s who. so anyone bitching about us on the trails, remember, we were the ones to approah the towns and cities that they are in. and they still get maintained by most of us.there are those fuck ups that do not care, but they are not our members or friends.we have no use for these assholes anywhere on these trails.but do get out, and enjoy them, that’s why we created them for,all of us, not just the non biking public.
seems to me that ATV’rs are carving out new trails all the time, wherever they damn well please. at what point do we say, enough is enough… TOO MANY goddamn ATV trails?!
and help me with something here, cuz i don’t get it… just what is the appeal in bringing a motorized machine into the peaceful wilderness – just to bomb around, make a lot of noise/pollution and run over whatever happens to be in your path? what about the flora and fauna, don’t you ATV fanboys have ANY appreciation/respect for the plants and animals that are effected by your activities?? TRUE nature lovers would *never* get up to the destructive/noisy/polluting shit that you ATV’rs do.
techcafe – you seem to want to paint all users of OHVs with the same brush…and that’s why your “bias” is clearly against what you perceive to be the ‘average’ user.
You don’t “see the appeal” in travelling the backwoods country in an OHV.
Answer this, have you tried it yourself?
BLT trail from the Coke plant to Greenwood Heights is glorious, a big thanks to whoever is responsible.
Most of the ATV’s I’ve met on the trail have reduced speed when passing and shown consideration, but like most issues there are always the odd arsehole who spoil things.
It’s useless Frosty – Tech hates everything that isn’t a bicycle.
NO, of course i haven’t ‘tried it’, frosty… simply because i have zero interest in bringing an ATV into the forest. i go into the wilderness to enjoy nature for what it is, not so i can tear up the place on a motorized vehicle.
is NOTHING sacred/special to you people?? the planet’s natural habitats are under assault and being decimated on a daily basis… yet, YOU and your buddies want to go ripping up the forest on ATVs, causing even MORE ecological and environmental damage. i don’t get it?
so no, riding an ATV for ‘fun’ doesn’t interest me in the least.
feel better now that got your 2cents worth in, Jennie?
good, now stfu, cow
Ah fuck, another pet-peeve of techcafe’s. And what a surprise, too.
I think its pretty obvious by now that any argument for ATV would be wasted here, folks.
btw, i’m still waiting to hear what the ‘appeal’ of an ATV is? how is it even possible to actually enjoy nature, bombing around in the wilderness on a souped-up miniature tractor?
what do you get out of it, aside from lung fulls of exhaust, excessive noise and the resultant environmental damage?
ah fuck off, Cranky… you got something *useful* to contribute, then do so… otherwise shut your goddamn useless trap.
Out of curiosity Tech, based on anything I’ve ever posted on here, what would inspire you to call me a cow? I bike, walk, and work out regularly, so my body is anything but “cow-like”. Also, I make every effort to express my opinion in a civilized, rational matter without ever resorting to profanity or name-calling. How is that cow-ish?
I don’t really have an opinion on ATVs one way or the other. I’ve never been on one, and I can’t recall ever encountering one on a trail. I just find it interesting (amusing even) that anything motorized seems to send you into uncontrollable fits of rage. You seem to think that anyone who drives a car or uses an ATV is the devil reincarnated.
If that makes me a cow, so be it.
“I don’t really have an opinion on ATVs one way or the other.”
that’s great, Jennie… so if you don’t have an opinion on the subject, then GO AWAY… there’s no need to bitch ME out, just because i happen to have an opinion on the matter.
i realize that some of you have a juvenile hate-on for me (like i care), but you’re just wasting our time by being a bitch, just for the sake of being a BITCH!
if, on the other hand, you got an opinion on the ‘discussion topic’, then let’s hear it… otherwise, please just stfu.
I find that responding to tech’s comments a waste of time, so I can’t really be bothered to put together a thoughtful or informative comment in anything that he/she has as a pet-project.
I may not agree with a lot that people post on here, but I do have the maturity appreciate that not all people see things the same way. I can sometimes learn from negative responses to my comments, with tech though, no such luck, its just too black and white for me.
ps – i take back the ‘cow’ remark, Jennie… that was uncalled for, so i’m sorry.
Tech – do you EVER get off the fucking computer?? Go outside for christs sake!
Well for one thing tech, a good thing about ATV’s is that a person can enjoy a case of beer in the woods without having to carry it.
Personally, I find them good for hauling out deer that I have killed. I don’t own an ATV but it sure is handy to know someone that does if you down a 180lb buck a few miles from the road.
oh fer fucksake, i can see this is going to lead into another let’s bash techcafe lovefest… and the discussion derailed AGAIN. man, some of you ‘regular bitchers’ are truly pathetic.
alright, i’ve had my say on this particular matter… as you were, bitches. cyaz
Once again, you’re all fired up and confrontational. I’m not the enemy Tech. My husband and I are a one car family, and I only take it when I need it for work. I cycle unless it’s really yucky or cold out, and then I take the bus. I want Halifax to become a more bike-friendly city. I want people to be more active. I’m not the bad guy here.
I guess I’d just like to understand where this irrational anger comes from. This idea that EVERYONE behind the wheel of anything motorized is a lazy, environment-hating jerk. Perhaps you could explain?
Accepted Tech. Thank you.
Its easier on the noggin’ to accept the stereotype as reality than to actually consider the facts in the real world. Saves time too.
FWIW, I have personally been involved with DNR on a project involving a local trail system. Been at it for almost 10 years now (and an additional 6 years on top of that before DNR became involved) so I think that I could have something of a response for the OB, but once I saw that tech was all over this (not that I surprized) I decided to not bother. Someone’s loss.
there are hundreds of sites on the internet, detailing the extensive damage caused by ORVs and ATVs in our wilderness areas, but here is a small sample:
Scars Across the Landscape
http://www.publicland.ca/issues/scarsacros…
ATVs and ORVs in Nova Scotia
http://www.publicland.ca/issues/atvsandorv…
NS Nature ATV Guidelines
http://www.naturens.ca/node/43
Federation of Nova Scotia Naturalists
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Environment/FNSN…
ATV Damage to the Environment
http://northstar.sierraclub.org/campaigns/…
ATV Damage in northen BC
http://www.bcnorth.ca/atvdamage/index.htm
More pictures of ATV damage
http://www.ncrs.info/pictures.html
still more pictures of ATV damage
http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/…
ORVs and ATV Regulation
http://www.newrules.org/environment/rules/…
Environmental Impact of ATVs
http://www.pngts.com/atv.html
ATVs, Destroying for Fun
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/10/at…
Minnesota DNR warned of ATV damage
http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors…
I’ve already seen a lot of those pictures, thanks for the ones I hadn’t though.
Heres one for you http://www.smatva.ca/gallery/displayimage.…
why do we (some people) have this insatiable need to utterly DOMINATE nature, at all cost? the planet is already dominated by motorized vehicles. EVERYWHERE you look… highways and automobiles completely dominate the landscape. it’s a motorist’s paradise!
can we not come to an understanding that the wilderness, at the very least, is OFF-LIMITS to the destructive impact of motorized machines? is that really so much to ask?? or will you people not be happy until there is no wilderness left worth saving?
we already clear cut huge swaths of forest, especially in this province, should we not respect and preserve what we have left? or is acceptable that ORV enthusiasts get to destroy everything in their path? and so what if some ATV groups are involved in trail maintenance? the trails would not have been extensively damaged in the first place, if not for the use of ORVs. foot traffic, from naturalists and hikers, have minimal environmental impact, but the same cannot be said for ORVs/ATVs, which cause significant damage.
You might like it here: http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/1891/Russia.…
I could never put my finger on what it is about tech’s posts thats so aggravating but now I know: its like reading Adbusters. Anybody ever read that? Its the same thing!
btw, just so we are clear… as i mentioned already, i object only to the ‘recreational’ use of ORVs/ATVs on public land, but i also acknowledge there are certain situations where the use of an ORV/ATV is warranted – but bombing around in the forest, on a motorized vehicle, just for the ‘fun of it’, is not a justifiable (mis)use of our land, imv.
are we here to talk about ‘techcafe’ or ORVs vs the Wilderness?
i love you too, Cranky… but your obsession with me is getting creepy.
Like I said, I gave up on engaging you in a meaningful discussion, so -creep on-, muthafucka.
But seriously folks, there are people that ‘enjoy’ nature via ATV use. Once you realize that other people’s ideas of enjoying nature can be just as meaningful as yours, though completely different, you’ll understand things a little better.
Of course, there are incompatible ways of experiencing things, and there are downright irresponsible/dangerous ways, but to totally write off all ATV users is lame.
Tech, have you ever seen the damage to the environment that a number of inconsiderate mountain bikers can do to a walking trail? Ever think that there are cyclists out there that are just as inconsiderate as some ATV drivers?
Yeah, mountain bikers are the worst!
Actually, I don’t equate mtb damage with atv damage. I know it exists, but I put it more on par with the damage done by inconsiderate hikers.
Obviously, the common theme here is the effect that humans have on the enviroment, so we should ban all human use in nature/wilderness preserves, not just mechanized.
are you two seriously attempting to compare the damage done by off-road vehicles to that of hikers & mountain bikers?? now i KNOW you stupid fuckers are totally full of bullshit. there is no comparison whatsoever… motorized vehicles do an *incredible* amount of damage to the wilderness trails (the visual evidence is all over the place). hikers and bikers don’t even come close to causing the magnitude of damage that ORVs/ATVs do.
your predictable, typical red herring bullshit, i’ll give you that
ps – the ‘stupid fuckers’ remark is meant in jest btw, for dramatic effect only, not meant as a personal attack, as i think some of you mistake my colourful language for… understandably, i suppose
Actually, tech, I’ve encountered areas frequented by bikers and hikers alike and some of it is so heavy, you’d never see an ATV (or any motorized off-road vehicle, for that matter) traverse on, and the condition of it is terrible. Motorized vehicles do visible damage, but humans (to echo Cranky) in general have an impact on nature. You cannot deny that. In fact, I’d rather see damage on a man-made trail from motorized vehicles than damage in the deep woods from hikers or bikers.
For the record, I don’t think hikers/bikers do more damage than atv’s. I do believe that hikers and bikers do an equal amount of damage, but in different ways.
Hmm, that still might not be clear.
I’ll try again:
Hikers do the same amount of damage as bikers and vice versa
ATV’s do more damage than hikers and bikers combined.
yes i agree, Fever, human traffic also does a fair bit of damage to our wilderness – but motorized vehicles are in a class all by themselves… these heavy gas-powered machines (and that’s what they are) do considerably more damage to the forest floor, to the flora & fauna than we humans could ever hope to. it’s simple physics man.
we shouldn’t downplay the damage done to our wilderness areas by off road vehicles, that’s shortsighted and irresponsible, and now that recreational ATVing in the back country has become more popular than ever, we probably haven’t seen anything yet, the environmental/ecological damage is likely to get worse, as more and more ATVrs tear through our wilderness, leaving destruction in their paths.
i realize that some of you think i’m just evangelizing for the environment. in a way, maybe i am, but moreover, i’m trying to encourage some common sense. and why the hell not speak up about our environment?? it’s not like ‘nature herself’ is given a voice… for if she had one, mother nature would be screaming at the top of her GHG-polluted lungs at many of you fools.
maybe the recreational ATV crowd could find less destructive hobbies?
Or, maybe you city-folk could stay in the miserable beds you made for yourselves, and let us rural folk do what we do – that is engines, chainsaws, hunting (and not just to eat either, for FUN!), fishing…and yes, driving OHV to get to those spots!
Beats the shit out of my great=great grandparents who used horses that used up enough grain and water to feed a small African village…but I have a feeling, techno-coffee, that horses are OK with you, aren’t they?
guffaw
Stop trying to turn NS wilderness into another fucking Point Pleasant Park wouldya?
frosty, i’ve already acknowledged that ATVs have legitimate uses, some of which you just mentioned.
maybe i wasn’t clear on the ‘recreational ATVr’ part. ATVs for transporting people & cargo is one thing, if done in a responsible manner, but ripping up the wilderness for fun & sport, and leaving trails of destruction behind you… that is something else entirely.
you can’t possibly disagree on that point, right?
In case there was any confusion about MTN bikers and the trails we use. Examples might be… Long lake trails (Wrandees), the majority of that trail network was built and originally maintained by MTN bikers in the 80’s early 90’s but have in last few years left it as it is overrun with people. Most MTN bikers take great pride in knowing that yes the areas we ride are impacted by our activity but we also go out of our way to make sure we limit that impact and actual will go back and do trail repair. Don’t ride when it rains, don’t squeeze the brakes, don’t ride around obstacles WALK around. These are things taught to any newbie by any MTN biker worth his salt.
We work with the city on having defined MTN bike trails such as the network behind Bayer’s Lake (Whopper) that is now being frequented by both hikers and just the other night a guy on a minibike. The area by the powerlines is an accepted ATV trail so no one minds and moves when we hear the screaming of an engine. Most MTN bikers would prefer to not be on trails that ATV’s or hikers use but it seems whenever we do establish a place for us to ride the popularity makes it so hikers want to be there as well. Sadly I now notice garbage on the Whopper trail system behind bayers lake since it has become a popular place to walk. Funny how for 10 yrs just MTN bikers and no garbage now that people are walking there we have garbage everywhere.
I realize statements were made in general about “inconsiderate” MTN bikers and that you didn’t mean all… but in a group that small and self monitored (at least on MTN bike trail networks) we do very little to hurt the trails and try our best to maintain and fix what is done. Last year we had over 60 volunteers show up for a trail repair day…I don’t know how often hikers or ATVers do that sort of thing but my guess is not very often.
Its true, truthx2. I (and many people in the Northwest Arm Drive/spryfield area) have been enjoying Long Lake long before the mtbers showed up. I gotta admit, I loved their trails and their ability to maintain them, not litter, and keep mis-use under control speaks volumes of their responsibility as trail users (trails were often kept under control from widening/creation of shortcuts by throwing deadfall on them). I wish the same could be said of the ‘hikers’, they aren’t really hikers, in the Tilley Hat/ technical clothing and vasque boots wearing kinda way, who showed up over the past 10 years or so. Garbage is here and there now. Spraypaint on rocks. Trails have been widened as much as some roads, even to the point where a trail doesn’t exist, just a giant swatch of flattened fauna. No wonder I don’t see any mtbers in there anymore.
I’m almost mad at the mtbers for creating a place for those dildos to go to in the first place.
So, for the most part hikers and bikers can cause as much damage, but to see where rampant hiker/dog walker/swimmer use can destroy an unmanaged park area, check out Long Lake.
Of course, by fauna I meant flora. I always get those mixed up. messy image, no?
techcafe just up and vanished.