Months ago, people tired to put an Atheist ad on Metro Transit. Metro said said. People then went to the Supreme court. Metro then said alright, we’ll run your ad. So where is it?!? I’m dying here. I want to see that ad! I want to have my picture taken with that bus! I want to ride on that bus (even if it goes nowhere!) I want to clap everytime it drives past me! Give me my non-believer ad already!!
— Very proud, impatient atheist
This article appears in Aug 20-26, 2009.
I saw it only ONCE on a Toronto bus and I squealed with delight! But I am wondering the same thing, where the hell are they? ONE is not right! It’s almost as if they are allowing it but not allowing it at the same time. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher would be disgusted, as am I.
ATHEISM IS A NON PROPHET ORGANIZATION
I’m looking forward to seeing these ad’s
Science H. Logic! I hate atheists. Biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet.
Dr. Fever believing in an all powerful being that created everything & who…makes his demands for human behaviour known to us by speaking through various prophets of different r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n-s ….but is invisible…………………just makes so much more sense .
Well God does move in mysterious ways.
Read “Stranger in a Strange Land” , a very nice commentary on religions and partially responsible for the ‘hippie’ movement.
Athiests tend to think that they’re onto something that “isn’t really there”. I’m with the Dr. on this one; I’ve heard so-called-athiests contradict themselves repeatedly.
They don’t believe in God but believe in ghosts. They don’t believe in organized religion but are the first people at some “spiritual festival” balling their eyes out.
Maybe being agnostic wasn’t a worthy label for them to refer to themselves.
I am a second generation hippy… 🙂
“It’s almost as if they are allowing it but not allowing it at the same time.” ~ RB
Exactly, RB, which is probably why you should look under the seats.
Faith is what brings people together. Religion is what divides them.
Instead of recognizing that they have a common faith in jesus christ, Protestants and Catholics choose to argue over the intrepetation of the bible and it’s meanings. At their core, all forms of faith have several things in common: love for you fellow mankind, the principals of do not kill, steal, etc. But instead of embracing those commonalities, people of varying religions choose to only recognize what sets them apart. Faith is a very powerful thing that can bring people together to do a lot of good. Religion is a tool used to rally people for or against a cause, whether or not it is right. As an atheist myself, I think of it as a form of faith. Faith in myself and even in mankind. I have nothing but the utmost respect for people of faith, but religious people really piss me off. If I were to see an ad on the city of a city bus that said “Be kind to your fellow man. A message brought to you by the Church of Latter Day Saints”, I would not be the least bit offended, as it is a message on the principles of faith. But if I saw an ad that said “The road to salvation lies in Christ. A message brought to you by the Church of Latter Day Saints”, I would be offended as it is a message about religion. I don’t agree with the particular wording of these atheist messages, mostly because they aren’t about faith, but religion.
What I love the most are the atheists who celebrate christmas.
Wouldn’t want your pseudo-faith getting in the way of gettin’ stuff, would ya?
Dr. and NGF — I’m with you guys on this one. Hypocrites++
PK they’re not celebrating Jesus, they’re celebrating Santa Claus (or the Great Shopper in the sky). LOL. Wonder if they want Good Friday off?
I’m sorry pretty kitty! I guess since I’m not Christian I should tell my family to fuck off on Christmas morning and not exchange gifts or eat dinner with them? Here’s a newsflash: Christmas is a CONSUMER based holiday, it’s mainly about the gifts for most people! I might be an Atheist, but I can celebrate holidays and special occasions with people even if I don’t belong to their faith. I give religious people respect when they respect me, and I don’t go around arguing with every religious person I see because I DON’T CARE if you’re religious, just don’t shove it in my face.
What most Atheists fail to realize is that they themselves are following a strict set of rules for living and organizing under that strict set of rules, which oddly enough, is a cornerstone of any organized religion. Secondly, as much as I don’t like Christianity, the stuff they preach is decent (although the way they tend to get that message to the people is a bit flawed) as well as anything else they sell to those who are willing to buy. I cannot criticize that.
More— I see what you’re saying, but I’m not defending organized religion. I’m just stating that these “Atheist” groups are religions in and of themselves. There really is no one true answer; what works for one, doesn’t work for the other. Whatever works for you is great, and it’s not my place to judge what you believe in, which is the problem we run into with these groups, hm?
Ah, but then Sodeypop, you’re not an true Atheist. While it may be true that Christmas is a secular event, as even some Muslim families celebrate, it’s roots still lie in religious celebration. You want to be a true Atheist? You need to eschew all things that have any semblance of organized religion, or else you turn out to be just another hypocritical so-called Atheist.
Ya right, whatever. I’m being hypocritical for saying I don’t believe in a god, but at the same time I will spend time with my family and not be a douchebag to them on their religious holidays. I still can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic…or if you really think Atheists are supposed to be militant bolsheviks burning bibles in the town square.
I’m actually quite serious, you cannot call yourself an Atheist if you celebrate a religious holiday. Being an Atheist goes well beyond not believing in a God/Gods. That’s just called not believing in a God or Gods. Atheism is a complete eschewing of all religious principals.
How aren’t Christians hypocritical? I love that someone who is perfectly “good” in a christian sense yet born on a remote island and not exposed to the bible is going to hell in their eyes.
Pretty Kitty and all of you saying Atheists shouldn’t celebrate Christmas ought to read some history, I’m pretty sure most Christian holidays are bastardized versions of pagan festivals.
I’m all for spirituality, God,Jesus,Allah, flying spaghetti monster even religion but what the hell is up with intolerant Christians telling other people not to celebrate their holidays? news to you, you stole them and whoever said that the holidays are mainly consumer based is completely right.
Being close with your family transcends bullshit beliefs to most people! Sodeypop has the right idea, making peace at the holidays. Isn’t that what your religions aspire to?
I always enjoyed the joke where an atheist and a hardcore christian were at the pearly gates. God let the atheist in because he had actually spent time pondering the meaning of life and religion, not just blindly committing his faith.
Sure, but then you recede the right to call yourself an Atheist. There’s no defending intolerant Christians, but there’s no defending intolerant Atheists (which is the problem with the ads).
You should forget about it and enjoy your life…………………there probably is no ad.
LOL Dr. Fever give it up! You don’t even KNOW what atheism is. Try reading some books, or even just read a dictionary for a minute. You are getting your information from some movie/tv show or from a biased religious person.
And as for the proposed ad being “intolerant”, you must be very insecure if you get upset when someone merely questions your faith in a polite non-threatening manner. Words like “probably” and “enjoy” don’t seem intolerant or extreme to me. The point of this ad is to encourage peaceful and friendly discussion, not attack religious people.
Then why is the wording as it is? “There Probably is no God, so stop worrying and enjoy your life.” Seems like an attack ad to me, but then again, I’m just an outsider. I apparently don’t know a sweet thing about this mysterious religion you call Atheism, which just looks like an excuse to take the beneficial parts of whatever religion you want, which is called being Agnostic not Atheistic. Just so that I’m clear here; I am not of any particular “faith”. In fact, I’m probably the least religious person you’d find. I am, however, able to articulate a formulated opinion and I’m also able to spot hypocrites, which seems to be a significant problem within the Atheistic community. How dare I attack you! You’re just expressing your freedom of religion (whoops, that means speech.). You guys are worse than Scientology, at least they know they’re nuts.
Culture and religion are frequently blurred, and folk get confused about what they are celebrating, and folk are frequently forgetting some are following cultural customs while others are religious fanatics.
Do your own thing, and chill out about what others are doing.
Right..I’m part of some athiest community now. I go to meetings and have a membership card…Frankly my friend, I don’t care what athiests you’ve met or if they were rude or hypocritical, because I am not responsible for them, just like a tolerant Christian shouldn’t take the blame for some fundamentalist loonies.
If I wanted to make an attack ad on the religious it would insult their intelligence, use profanity perhaps, not say “there probably isn’t a god so enjoy your life.” I agree there probably isn’t a god…but I’ll be waiting for proof and I’m open to whatever can be proven to me. If people get offended the message wasn’t for them obviously, because I’m sure those same people offended by this ad would be offended by an ad simply saying “give atheism a chance”, because atheism moreso than the ad is what bugs some people I think.
The thing is, you really have a stereotypical and narrow view of what an athiest is. I’ve tried to explain that not all atheists are so dogmatic, not all atheists try to change people’s opinions, and you CAN believe there is no god and at the same time spend time with your family and friends and participate in things that are entrenched in Canadian society such as Christmas. This doesn’t mean I’m trying to be religious one day of the year to score some new socks and other gifts I don’t want. I make no bones about it, my family knows I don’t fold my hands and thank any god for my dinner, but I sit quietly and let them be religious, because I’m a fairly tolerant person.
“” Well God does move in mysterious ways.””
Indeed.
That’s why they call it “God’s mysterious ways…”
coldly profound
“” I don’t fold my hands and thank any god for my dinner””
Good, because it has always struck me as ridiculous to do so.
As if god(s) decided to fill one family’s table with grub, whilst ignoring the billion or so folks that are going hungry tonight, lol…
What did THEY do wrong? Maybe they shoulda prayed a little harder?
In fact, the “ad” is agnostic at best.
A better ad would be – “There IS no god(s), stop pretending that there is and that she likes YOU better than some starving kid in Africa – so keep your bible hooey out of my bedroom, my kid’s school and all public spaces, and keep it to yourself, where it belongs.
And Dr/Ng phat – you have a (moderatly) good point when you say that some folks that don’t believe in god(s) and call themselves atheists, are the first ones to call themselves “spiritual”, (whatever the fuck THAT’S supposed to mean)…
But you drop the ball by trying to lump “atheists” all together and call it a “religion” – nonsense. It’s just a lack of belief in god(s), that’s all – there’s no doctrine/dogma/lifestyle etc etc that would be a hallmark of a religion. Perhaps you are mistaking some “atheists” for ‘humanists’, those that like to prattle on about the “higher power” of mankind/love etc…
Frost – you sound like one hell of a dude to sit and blaze a few with, man. Like a jam’s session’s “few”.
Just to weigh in on the celebrating Christmas debate. It is my understanding that many scholars believe that Jesus was not in fact born on December 25, the date christians celebrate as his birthday/Christmas. They believe that his actual date of birth is likely sometime in September. The reason that Pope Julius I selected December 25 as the day to celebrate Christ’s birth is that there were a number of pagan celebrations (Saturnalia, Feast fo the Son of Isis, Yule) that took place in December/January and the church wanted to present an alternate celebration for the converted pagans. Many of the symbols that we associate with Christmas/Christianity today were actually pagan symbols co-opted by the church such as Christmas Trees (Druid sacred religious symbol), Kissing under the mistletoe (fertility ritual), Yule log (burned as an offering to the sun), holly berries (food of the gods)….So in fact Christmas is not a strictly “Christian” holiday and many of the things about it that non-christians enjoy such as gift giving, a big festive meal and a drink or two were being done by pagans long before Christ arrived on the scene.
Just to weigh in on the celebrating Christmas debate. It is my understanding that many scholars believe that Jesus was not in fact born on December 25, the date christians celebrate as his birthday/Christmas. They believe that his actual date of birth is likely sometime in September. The reason that Pope Julius I selected December 25 as the day to celebrate Christ’s birth is that there were a number of pagan celebrations (Saturnalia, Winter Solstice, Feast of the Son of Isis, Yule) that took place in December/January and the church wanted to present an alternate celebration for the converted pagans. This desire to compete is of course perfectly understandable for a young upstart faith that was trying to win over believers whose communities had been participating in other celebrations for hundreds of years. Many of the symbols that we associate with Christmas/Christianity today were actually pagan symbols co-opted by the church such as Christmas Trees (Druid sacred religious symbol), Kissing under the mistletoe (fertility ritual), Yule log (burned as an offering to the sun), holly berries (food of the gods)…. So in fact Christmas is not a strictly “Christian” holiday and many of the things about it that non-christians enjoy such as gift giving, a big festive meal and a drink or two were being done by pagans long before Christ arrived on the scene.
Did someone say Atheist? Who here doesn’t believe in the almighty Dog?
Sorry for the double post. My mistake!
Whether or not christmas has become commercialized, it is a holiday that would not exist in its current form without Christianity, sodeypop. And “Santa Clause” is the actually “Saint Nicholas” who was a, wait for it, CHRISTIAN canonized figure.
You’re about as fake as my tits if you think partaking in Christmas celebrations still makes you an “Atheist.”
Celebrate whatever the fuck you want, just don’t try and fool others into thinking you’re an “Atheist.” Frig everyone and their dog claims to be atheist these days. Bandwagon, anyone?
Ha! LWD!! 😀
pretty kitty- did you miss Jai’s two posts? the Christmas tree had nothing to do with saint nic, neither does mistletoe, the list goes on. Realize the history of Christianity as Jai kindly explained and that most holiday traditions were celebrated before Christmas. Christians don’t own the holidays and they certainly don’t have the rights to the tree, mistletoe, yule log, gift giving and feasting that anyone regardless of their beliefs can celebrate. Atheists have every right to participate.
So yes. I’m the one who posted this. Still no one has answer the question as to when the ads will be out. And just for the record, I don’t believe in ghosts or angels. I don’t believe in spirits or magic. I don’t believe in old wives tales or homopathic medicine. I don’t believe in a god of any sort or any other supernatural being. I celebrate Christmas not as a christian holiday but as a time for my family and friends. And I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Sodeypop— This is my thing: the ads refer to God (that’s the capital G variant as in the Christian God) Therefore, it’s targeted. It doesn’t say there’s no Buddha, Allah, God et al. What is it? You cannot claim it’s there to spur debate. It’s there to ridicule Christians, which in all honesty is bad form.
Frosty— Good point, but I’m arguing that Atheism is a narrow-minded belief system, not the issue of Atheists vs. humanists/spirituality. I’m all for following your heart, but if you’re gonna put a label on your belief system, make sure you’re correct about it.
Why do some people think you have to have faith to be spiritual?
Oh God! Another religious Bitch ‘n’ Pitch!
Actually to me it’s not an atheist ad but rather an agnostic ad. An atheist ad would have stated “there is NO God”. The word “probably” contends that there is a possibility that there is a God. Maybe the atheists are hedging their bets.
Pretty kitty, for trying to steal holiday feasts and joy away from me you are barely better than the Grinch 🙁
I suggest you educate yourself more on what atheism is, because you have some misconceptions and extreme assumptions of what it is for sure. It’s foolish to declare I’m automatically “giving up my atheism” by being present for a dinner with my family. What are you smoking?!
And Dr. Fever, I’m sure if a Muslim that understood English saw the ad they would understand it’s about their god as well, because they worship the same god as Christians!!! The pictures I’ve seen of signs that were used on buses in other cities have all capital letters so the G is the same size as the O and D, as well as the rest of the sentence, so it’s unfair to just mention the G is capitalized. I’m not surprised some people get overly defensive about it, but I’m sure lots of other religious people will not feel their faith challenged or insulted and will just take it for what it really is: something meant to make people think for a second, something maybe to talk to someone about even if only to argue, debate or disagree with it.
I’ve often thought about that BT, it’s so terribly non-committal, isn’t it? They want an out, just in the off chance they’re wrong.
SP— You may be right about the God part, but traditionally, God means the Christian variant. Perhaps they should be a little more careful. Also, I have issue with anything that attacks the religion of others. Sure, there are those will see it as an ad to provoke commentary, but that’s not the job of MT. I don’t like the fact that a public entity has been turned into a religious battleground. How would you feel if you saw an ad that said: “There is a God, and you’re going to hell if you do not accept His teachings”?
A monkey had butt-sex with a fish-frog and that made you.
and uh,I’m pretty sure that sentence wasn’t agreed upon by all the atheists out there.
I know I wasn’t consulted… though I’m atheist with pagan tendencies in that I will enjoy the days I’m given off, but for no religious reasons. Before you counter-argue, I never have my days off on the same day every year.
my day off because of christmas is usually some time in early December or early January… and I haven’t even taken my day off for easter yet this year….
but you can be damn sure I’m taking it.
You watch South Park on the Comedy network last night too zZz?
Anyone that actually thinks that ad should have been run is a real shit head. They were obviously going to take heat for it, and I’m not religious at all. Saying “There’s probably no god” is a shitty thing to put in someones face on public transportation.
While I do get together with family for many occassions through the year ,including christmas…I refuse to accept presents. Not because I am an atheist or of a religion that isn’t christianity based.
I realised long ago, that in a universe as large as the one we are a itsey,bitsey,tiny, insignificant part of, it is absolute folly to believe we are somehow “special”. So special that we are singled out as “the chosen people of god” how insufferably arrogant any man (or woman) must be to truely believe such hype ! That you piously religious cannot see that, proves to me just how blind you all really are.
I long ago came to the realization that religion is simply a means of controling the gullible/fearful, gathering wealth from those who have bought into these ideologies & the power associated with large groups of like minded humans is its true goal .
I don’t need to be fearful of an eternity of suffering ,to be a good person. I don’t need to dress a certain way, or embrace idea’s put forward by persons long dead & still unproven to enjoy life.
Getting together with family is cause enough to celebrate & I take every advantage to do so. Just because the Government has decided in many cases which days are ‘days off’ doesn’t hinder me in anyway & attempting to put forward that I am some how a hypocrit because I enjoy getting together with my family on what you religious consider ‘your holiday’ is IMO typical of those who are ‘better than others’ who are not 100% behind your religious views !
I have to admit to feeling slightly uncomfortable around acquaintances who I know are atheist. It’s similar to the discomfort I feel around people who are religious. I feel as if when they find out I’m not an atheist they’re going to try to pick apart my personal beliefs and have a big argument which I am not interested in having. This tends to just be those who are “atheist and proud,” ie feel the need to let everyone know they’re atheist, on an ongoing basis. In this way some people’s atheism reminds me of religion in that it involves steadfast belief in that which cannot be proven. That the atheist bus ad could so easily be a religious ad (albeit not of the fire-and-brimstone type) by changing one word is, to me, rather telling.
I don’t mean this to attack all atheists. A friend of mine grew up going to church and was quite involved in church activities, but she was one of the coolest people I ever met – very live-and-let-live and very open to philosophical discussion. She complained of people judging her as soon as they found out she was involved with the church, making snarky remarks and assuming she was some moralistic bible thumper. I am trying not to do that with athiests. At least as long as they don’t try to “convert” me.
Have yet to see the athiest ads on our buses, but I did see Greanpeace’s spoof of the ads on a bus, as well as a billboard. “There’s probably no cod, now let’s stop overfishing and think of the future.”
i worship the sun without we would all be dead
Why do Atheists need to advertise? Who is paying for this? I used to think atheists were cool because when it came to this kind of useless advertising (“I saw this ad on a bus that changed my life and I’m now ready to unembrace god”) they never bothered.
I’m guessing they advertise because it sparks dialogue about atheism, god and religion….kind of like what is happening here. The bill for the advertisements is footed by Humanist Canada, which is in turn funded through donations from like-minded folks.
Pain girl- good for you.
If criteria for an all powerful being (god if you perfer labels) is that, without this god we would all perish. Well the Sun is a great choice. Because if it went out tomorrow…we as well as all other life on this planet ,except some mollusks, shrimp & crabs around a few volcanic vents deep in the oceans, would die !
Jai is right. The reason for the ad is to spark conversation about religon and it’s role in our society. But it’s also about encouraging people who are atheist to freely admit to being atheist. Many people in our society still look down on people who have no “faith.”
To fu.ckthecoast, for thousands of years there has been religon. And for thousands of years it has been pushed on people. It’s about damn time that there was an ad run against it.
And finally to Mole Rat. I am sorry you feel uncomfortable around atheist. It’s just that most of us feel so passionately about our non-belief because we don’t see how other people can’t see the logic and reason behind it.
I feel that for some people it’s just a way to slot themselves into an identity which then has to be defended. Like religion.
Although when you take into account which ideology has caused the most harm over the centuries, obviously religion wins. To be honest, I have a healthy respect for reason and open-mindedness, and I feel that more athiests exhibit those qualities than religious people.
Imagine no religion? it’s easy if you try.
I just wrote that, true story!
Saying that atheists can’t celebrate Christmas and still say that they’re atheist is about the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Are they allowed to take Sunday off? Get married? They were originally founded in Religion. If this is your argument they should count too.
Shut up and get an aluminum pole already, tinsel is distracting.
I think it’s tough to say “athiests can’t celebrate Christmas” when it is essentially a secular holiday for many. Many celebrate Christmas who would not call themselves Christian or athiest, or who are severely lapsed Christians, but I don’t hear them being called hypocrites. These days Christmas has more to do with “Santa,” giving/getting shit, and gorging yourself on food/drink, than it has to do with Jesus. Are people supposed to be like “nah, can’t come to the office Christmas party, because I’m an athiest?”
“In this way some people’s atheism reminds me of religion in that it involves steadfast belief in that which cannot be proven.”
You’re getting mixed up, Mole Rat. Atheism is not a belief of something, it’s a lack of belief of something. There is nothing for atheists to believe in, so saying it’s a belief in something is ridiculous. Atheists don’t “believe” that there is no god. They simply don’t see evidence of god. It’s logic, not belief.
Thanks for clarifying, fizz.
No prob, Rat.
And nicely said on your second last post. Couldn’t have put it better.