I think the cabs in this city suck. Sure they drive you home, well if you home is somewhere in downtown Halifax. But this 3 dollar charge as soon as you get in, that should be the tip. A 20 dollar cab ride from Dartmouth to Halifax is the same cost I pay to go to Antigonish. Plus bars, I think if I’m paying 5 bucks a beer and giving a dollar tip each time, after about 5 drinks I should get a free one. But I do it anyway out of guilt, not because your an awesome a opening a bottle of beer. Oh I think I’m suppose to put a fuck or two in here, FUCK.
—Another Broke Ass Caper
This article appears in Dec 31, 2009 – Jan 6, 2010.
Who are you paying $20 to get to Antigonish? Certainly not a bus or a cab…
I know, right, BRoc!
The bus costs at last 50+ bucks (probably more I don’t remember how much they quoted me a few months ago) to go to Antigonish.
Might be $20 worth of gas.
This is what was good in Australia: no tipping! No tipping culture whatsoever. You could leave something if you wanted, and it would be appreciated of course, but it was never expected and not the norm. And they had cheaper beer.
cosmo… don’t get served much, do you? How about that second time through your favourite watering hole? Trust me on this one… the bartender is NOT there for the shitty wage and lack of benefits. If you’d like to run off to the NSLC, buy a beer then crack it open for yourself you just feel free to do that! If you’d like someone else to do that for you please expect to pay for the service, atmosphere, etc. If you don’t understand a gratuitous culture you should live in some other country. If we didn’t tip server’s and bartenders they’d would demand higher wages (like something they can actually live off of). We already talked economics 101 in another thread but do you know what happens to the price of a burger when the costs for labour increase?
Kay – the consumer will pay for the difference either way: 15% tip on a $10 burger, or no tip and a revised price of $11.50 to pay for the wage hike. No matter how you do the math the same amount of money comes out of your pocket.
okay, let’s do the math for real. First, by your reasoning the $1.39 would disappear from existence. The last time I worked as wait staff runnin’ food in a Montana’s style establishment I worked about 32 hours a week and with my shitty little wage, tips included, I earned nearly $55k/yr. That’s about $30/hr. How much did you say that burger would cost? Considering I cleared around $150/night in tips running food, the bartender would earn 3 to 5 times that amount in tips.. your beer is getting mighty expensive. Are you sure you wanna go there? Does your competition? Your government won’t mind. Not only do we live in a gratuitous culture but the socioeconomic climate is set by capitalism working in just this way. Tip well my friends! You get what you pay for around here.
Holy fuck can someone tip a travel agent enough to get kay out of NS. Perhaps put her on the same flight with mr. bomber from the other week.
if you can make 55K/year as a server because of the tips then I am definitely over tipping and refuse to listen to another bitch from servers complaining about not getting their 15-20%.
OP why the hell would you tip someone $1 on a $5 drink for merely opening a bottle?
Its not NYE anymore and your pogey’s dried up so stop acting like a big willy. Go back to Cheticamp or Glace Bay if you want to try and act large.
kay— the socioeconomic climate in this forum says that you should shut up and shove your arrogant “truth” up your ass, troll.
I rarely tip. The only time I’ll tip is if the server actually goes to give me change back without hesitating. You know what I’m talking about; that one awkward millisecond when the server expects you to say: “don’t bother with the change”. If I even slightly feel that hesitation, you get zip.
On a further note, OP, you think this is bad, go to any bar/strip club in Montreal. Tips are “mandatory”, beers are are close to 8 bucks, and cabs start at 5 bucks in the downtown core.
Miles…it really depends on the establishment. Not all servers earn that much in tips. Kay’s estimation is a little off the mark. Having bartended/waitressed/managed a variety of bars/taverns/pubs/restaurants I can tell you that not all sales are equal. Nor are all tips. Some servers have sections, some are free-floor. Some places require servers to pool tips to be divvied equally (even though not all servers are working equally hard). It really varies. Trust me, if servers were all averaging 50k in tips this would be a very highly sought after vocation, which it is not.
I was extremely lucky to land a bartending gig in Halifax which, at its high point, charged $3.75 for a bottle of domestic. Most of the clientele there paid with fives and left the change. I didn’t expect it, and I always handed them their looney and quarter. I didn’t play favorites either, I made people line the fuck up and I served them in order. Anyone pushing their way through or waving fat stacks in my face got sent to the back. THAT is how bartending should be done, and I know people appreciated it.
kay, if a bartender is not at their job for shitty wages and no tips they should get another job that pays higher. bartending, again, is a mcjob that anybody over age 19 (or 18 in some provinces) can do. it doesn’t take special skills to twist off a beer cap; fill a glass with ice/vodka/cranberry; or pour tequila into a shot glass and give someone lemon and salt.
and you’re not an economist, you smelly dildo.
Give bartenders a little credit, Fat. I certainly worked the mcbartending gig before (see above) but the one I actually enjoyed (better co-workers, less frantic service) required not only a solid knowledge of the 150+ bottles of liquor and substantial wine selection, but also how to make some frustratingly complicated cocktails quickly and efficiently, on top of remembering the faces, names and preferred drinks of a gazillion regulars. It’s not a walk in the park, and I’ve seen plenty of moron 19-year-olds get tossed for not being able to handle it.
I’ve been there and done it also, lehova; thus, I can speak about the job. Also worked as a doorman and bouncer inside the establishment. Not shitting on bartenders, but its not like they’re in the league of professionals and can demand extra incentives.
Fundamentally, bartenders are drink dispensers. Maybe a judge of character as well. It still does not mean the bartender deserves to earn $20 an hour plus tips.
Fuck, I was extremely lucky if I made $20/hour INCLUDING my tips. At the job I just mentioned (the lucrative one only lasted a few months) I got $8.50/hour, which was about $0.90 above min wage at the time. I was lucky if I got 100/week from tip-out, which brought me up to a grand total of about $13/hour. Maybe a little more if I billed customers at the bar, but I didn’t like making people pay for their drinks before sitting down to dinner, it seemed tacky.
Out of curiosity, did you work at a club/pub, or a fine dining establishment? The two are a world apart for bartending.
what is it you bitches have against a comprehensive education and a shit load of practical experience shining itself here? Holy shit!
In my example I reference a Montana’s style establishment where the top entree will run about $20. To earn $150 in tips this bitch would run about $1000 worth of product. That’s 50 people served over the course of an evening or a variation of dinner, drinks and dessert for the couples who would come in. Many were tables of four… chChing! Average in a shitty wage at about $8/hr (I don’t think it was even that much when I worked as a server) and there you go! When I ran about $1000 worth of food on the floor (there were 3 on the floor) the bar tender would serve up $3k or so in just straight booze (working until close)… calculate 15% of THAT for a single shift of opening beer!
I couldn’t imagine working a mcJob that didn’t have some expectation of gratuity… those positions are filled by 15 year old kids giving you what you pay for anyway. And did I mention I worked alongside some really impressive people? One was a doctor! A real GP who really liked (tax free?) money and hoppin’ crowds on the weekend! I never looked at blue collar work the same way again. Yes, I’m a helluva tipper, I tipped out my kitchen and my hostess and, no, I didn’t hover waiting to see if I could keep your change… I was too busy beating the shit out of my feet… beside, you can just leave it on the table, I’ll get to it.
Fat, now that you know how much bartenders and servers make maybe you should start looking up to them, eh?.. reduce the shadow your gargantuan nose casts?
It’s a good living but one has to put up with sore feet, weird hours and the likes of idiots like Fat here and the OP
Iehova, “club/pub, or a fine dining establishment? The two are a world apart for bartending…”
You’re right about that. I once worked in a fine dining restaurant that didn’t become a drinkfest, live band or karaoke show and I’ll tell, the bartenders made very little compared to us servers slingin’ top-end food and wine. That said, I still averaged about the same in tips but only about half the running.
kay, was that nose remark referring to my jewish ancestry?
Seriously kay, you’ve put way too much though into that. I bet you even have flow charts and stuff at home… You’re a business whiz!
There are assholes everywhere. Some people tip too much ’cause they’re pussies.(read my first sentence) Some do not tip enough or at all ’cause they feel that a 10-15-20% addition to there bill is outrageous. (read my first sentence)
“All he did was explain the menu, elaborate on the daily specials including their contents, make recommendations regarding an appropriate wine selection for the food ordered, take a drink order and serve said drinks, serve appetizers, continually monitor the table, refill water glasses, clear plates, make sure the entrees the kitchen has prepared are correct and hot with any special requests fulfilled, serve wine, bring the extra whatever they need, make sure they are pleased with the food, clear any debris or plates, glasses etc., then take a dessert and or coffee and or another drink order, serve these items, then present the bill to the correct person. Multiply this by 5 or 6 or even 10 tables at a time.
Does this make for a fun night out for you? Then tip accordingly. No one is obligated to tip but if you eat out, the waitron is part of the entertainment and if you were entertained and served with skill and perhaps some panache leave a token of your appreciation. (read my first sentence).
And yes I have served lots of goofs that tip well ’cause I made them enjoy their night out.
Fever, kay probably has a red cape with a huge “S” on it that hangs out of her ass and another that hangs out of her pussy. You know, considering how she thinks she knows everything about everything about everything and how she’s just an unstoppable force that could even destroy Hulkamania.
No because Kay is still a server slinging crap food at montana style slop houses haha . Really – this from a bitcher who hates CSR’s? And your one Kay? LOL – Now i know I was right about you being a burger slinger . VOR – she belongs to alberta – now does it make sense?
WTF are you going on about? Didn’t everybody sling beer when they were in school getting an education working toward a better than $50k for sore feet kind of life? Yeah well, here are am. I’d better not find out your one of my peon employees, hog. And OF COURSE that comment was about your ancestry, Fat. Anyone can tell that.
… bitches.
kay you’re such a loser.
Trust me kay I don’t work for you – you couldn’t pay enough . Secondly , your not in my field. Maybe if you slung slop in calgary somewhere high end – i can see you making 50 k plus . Not everyone “slung crap food” for 50 k a year while in school – some of us actually worked in our trades as apprentices . Thereby by passing the fools with 4 years of unrelated shitty work – and gaining our masteries , not wasting 4 years unlike others ( COUGH COUGH .)
Hey Weedhog,
I’ve been meaning to ask you for a while now—and I will totally understand if the other posters say this has to wait for some other discussion—but I am dying to know exactly what kind of trade you are in.
The reason is that I am looking to transition into some other kinds of work (can’t reveal too much right now), and have been having fascinating conversations with people about what they do and why they chose different careers: pros and cons, etc.
Are you able to tell us what it is you do—or give us enough hints so I could narrow it down?
Also, do you like it? What are the things about it that make it interesting? What are the things that drive you crazy? What sort of people do you work with?
Who the fuck makes 50 thousand dollars a year working at Montana’s? That is fucking preposterous.
Rubyjane To answer your question – I am a carpenter and mason by trade. I have masteries in both . It’s something i have done a long time .I also work with insurance companies in the mold and asbestos removal as a certified crew boss. What do I love about it ? I love standing back and seeing something that wasn’t there 3-6 months ago and its looks awesome !!!
What do i hate ? Other fuck up crews that think they know it all and I have to end up correcting many mistakes and code violations. Somedays when the work is 16 hours a day and i start getting burned out – its not a career for the unfit ( no offence to anyone out there that is) – i’ve gone through so many people that thought they could and can’t.
What sort of people do i work with ? Plenty of good people – I work with most all trades in the construction industry at different times and stages. I also work with fire damaged buildings ( compromised structures ). It’s all pretty much and in hand with my trades.I meet them all – tough guys – bull laborers- pussy labors -assholes – wanna be tough guys and alright people. But most of all – I meet men and women thats are hard working pretty smart people and my trade entails constant learning. I learn from the smart ones !!!!!
The most biggest thing i hate ruby is this – I have to leave NS 10 months out of the year to make exceptional wages in alberta . I hate the fact NS can’t pay enough for us trades to stay – who wants 18-22 dollars an hour in NS when its more then double up here ? Thats what I hate the most . Oh and falling off buildings i kinda hate too – you can only fall once if your up past three floors and that kinda sucks.
In the end run? I LOVE MY JOB !!!!!
Oh and an addendum to Kay’s 50K a year thing . I just talked to one of my fine dining server friends here in calgary . And a mover and shaker one at that and cute with a nice ass – she makes around 40 + here a year. So without offending you and calling you a liar – liar . Also spoke to another person that serves at ceasars steak house ( $110-$200 a plate place) and he don’t make that much either – close but no cigar to 55 K . I have to ask you – where the fuck did you make 55 K + a year at? I only ask because you state you worked these jobs back in the day with a poorer economy and less expendable incomes around . PS the IT industry doesn’t pay half what it did 10 years ago .
Thanks Weedhog—I appreciate this info.
I think it is cool that you take so much pride in what you do. There is so much to be said for actual SKILLS in whatever field a person works in. (As a former educator at many levels, I can attest to how well students thrive when they have an opportunity to MASTER something REAL.)
So many people work in very “nebulous” jobs where they never get to SEE the results of their labour. I think that is very stressful for people—much more stressful than the actual work itself. (I am not implying that their work HAS no results, rather I am agreeing there is so much satisfaction in SEEING said results.)
I have seen a lot of people treated brutally by the economic shifts of the past decade or so: in the trades, in IT, in manufacturing, and in my world of graphic design. I don’t like seeing smart, skilled people have to uproot their lives or be cast aside for (often) ever-lower wages . . . this “global” economy is a tougher and tougher place.
This is all scary—I do not know what the best path today is for a young person just starting out—or even for a mid-level person looking to advance.
But I am glad that you have told us about the trades you work in. Keep it up—a lot of people could benefit from hearing about how excellent your career is. I hope that it helps others find a good life for themselves too.
Thanks!
Well, 50k a year is only about 24.00 an hour at an 40 hour work week. I always made that or more working as a waitress. Fine dining servers generally make less, only because they usually only serve dinner, making your work hours less, and they serve way less tables. Generally those places book the table only once for the entire night.
The maximum tips are always at the “Montana” type places, only because you can serve the same table three times a night with the high table turnover. The entrees are on the lower end of the scale, but still pricier than a diner.
I loved working as a server. It was fun, good atmosphere, and good money. I just decided working 9-5 Mon-Friday with sick leave, vacation days and medical benefits was more appealing. I have two degrees, and still would be a server if there was better benefits!
Thanks for that input ruby .I have to agree with you on the economics brutality. It does suck – i quess I had the foresight to know multi trade is the way to keep your head above the water. It actually wasn’t foresight – it was just what i happened to do . I have university degree labors ( mind you they start at 22.00 p/h) that can’t either find work in or not get paid enough for their work in their chosen fields .I can see and guess what they feel working something other then what they’re trained for . I couldn’t imagine going to work as a server or menial labor worker for 10 bucks an hour with my qualifications .
Ah, that’s cute! The carpenter is contrasting IT salaries. LOL
I’ve explained the math of a 32 hour week (usually across 4 shifts, not 5), I described the menu prices, the wage and specified how to caluclate 15% of SALES… there’s nothing more I can do if you can’t get your head around that and arrive at a yearly income (mostly tax free??) of around $50k.
BECAUSE of the high end nature of Ceasar’s the volume is comparatively quite low. Your friend would serve maybe 5 or 6 tables a night. “Hurrying” in a fine dining environment is not cool and won’t help a tip anyway.
You should also know the economy used to be MUCH healthier especially in AB but, since you asked, I was in Ontario at the time. And, hog, menu prices haven’t come down since… ever!
sarey seems to get it… thankfully. Hog, we’ll just have to work on you a little.
Wouldn’t you be surprised to know $50k/yr is about what an experienced IT person gets these days? They’re expected to work more than 40 hrs/wk and often do. You can tell I did the blue collar thing to pay for school, did over a decade of professional work in IT and now I’m self employed having learned the only way to breach mediocrity is to own it all… makes me grateful for a comprehensive education.
Kay I commend you on your 50 k salary in IT – still I make twice that easily on a slow year . Even so i just asked where it was from back in the day you made your good wage . Of course I have no idea what IT makes and or what servers make – I build the places you guys work in. I don’t work in them . Maybe if your didn’t make yourself bigger then everyone and more important then anyone else – you would actually be easy to listen to and taken seriously .Thou I do know most trades don’t make half as much as 10 years ago – take corel and nortel & others that all fell down flat 10 years ago. I’m basing my statement on that .I just happen to work in an area that still supports skill trades with their economy . I wasn’t talking out my ass – i did see nortel go from billions to fuckin penny stock noone wants . Ps Kay My comprehensive education wasn’t 10 years it was 3 actually in class – the rest getting top dollar at yearly apprenticeship levels . I own my business – so 10 years for 50k or 3 years for twice or more ? ummmm yea i’ll stick to what i do And i don’t need employees I have sub contractors that the government pays ME to hire . You have a business – and your smart – so how do i get that done? If you can answer half this without being sarcastic and all mighty – i think i will stop calling you a dummy and actually read what you write . You being from alberta depending on your age – know that the 80’s boom was a bust too – as were other provinces .I just aquired multi trades so when one falls – i can jump on the other – totally beats having one trade and no back up beside an EI cheque for 9 months .As much as you might be good at IT – which is fine – on my crew you’d be as useless as I would be at IT . Keep it in mind everyone excels at different things and noone is a KNOW IT ALL .
IT tend to be lame-ass dressers too.
Shes just pissed because I spent waaaaay less time in school and waaaaay more time making three times her shitty wage and or profit is all . It’s to be expected Fat !!! Fuckin nova scotia paying some IT people big money – hold on while i wipe the turnips off my shoulder from the truck I just fell out of . We come from here – we know better .Apparently IT are also big fantastizers also I can tell!! Tell em FAT !!
“what is it you bitches have against a comprehensive education and a shit load of practical experience shining itself here?” Nobody has a problem with that Kay…the issue is that you just haven’t realized that you are not providing that here.
Just as an aside…I thought you worked for a local charitable businessentity, now you have a business with your own employee’s?
Kay, even without you making the “shit load of practical experience” comment in reference to yourself…everyone here knows you are so full of shit that even an industrial pig farm would have trouble disposing of your excrement. Funny thing is…last year you were here quoting Nicholas Cage movies for reference against real life issues…really putting that “shit load of practical experience” to work right? I seriously doubt you were pulling 55k a year as wait staff…not unless you were either stealing everyones tips…it’s more likely you are simply lying yet again.
You know the most fantasy-riddled part of your story is that you think any of us would believe that someone would tip such a foul and sour person such as yourself Kay.
Its funny that kay mocks carpenters too, hog. I know several carpenters personally and they make very good coin for what they do. Plus what they do is more important than some computer dweeb’s job (who went to university to learn about software for four years).
I would rather know how to build some things like furniture and, say, a house before I’d care about knowing how to create a homepage or remove a virus from a hard drive. Plus carpenters probably get laid more =D
Kay, I am in IT and I started at 30+ with no certs or experience…the more experienced and certified generally pull in 65k+.
Tips are not tax free either so you are also a tax dodging thief on top of being a liar and delusional. You are such a prize.
She does entertain us, though!
To jump back to the bitch and to get away from the compulsive Onterrible liar, I only tip when I get good service. To Insure Prompt Service. Sure, its a made up meaning, but if you suck at your job, or you make me sit at the bar and wait for my beer while you make shitty cocktails for everyone else (after asking me first) or you give me two dollars in quarters back for change from my double, you get shit.
It seems to me that some of the trades that are most interesting like Cabinet Maker, are more difficult to make a good wage in.
Do you have any advice about which trades are showing good potential for the future, and which ones are in decline and/or over-filled with practitioners?
How are CNC Machinists doing these days?
DER, I was doing that in 1995. Do the same today and the salaries aren’t there, which is why I’m onto bigger, better things.
Ruby, if we can agree the interesting, well-paying jobs of yesterday stemmed from the energy sector money machine I’d guess the interesting, well-paying jobs of the future relate to health care. Our aging population is seeing to that. Health care (as a whole) just happens to utilize all the other science/tech markets too. Medical data requirements represent the same concerns all other data environments have to some degree. Security, large volume, the need for it now and in many places and in many formats, coordinations with outside labs, billing, revenue, expense tracking, project accounting… everything we can imagine about data, technology, science, hardware, environmental control, architecture (everything a hospital is) is wanted, needed and utilized for the distinct needs of health care.
Yes, Health Care is the way of the future—no doubt at all about that.
Nurses, nurse practitioners, gerontologists, occupational therapists, health psychologists, informatics specialists will all be in very high demand.
I have been hearing again and again that Pharmacy and Pharmacology are booming too (go figure), especially now with Pharmacists increasingly moving away from dispensing, and more into patient counselling and routine (basic-level) diagnosis referrals back to docs.
Accessibility and “universal” design in all areas will be big too. (I am working on a project related to this right now and am finding it very intriguing.)
Whether or not any of these upcoming fields would be good for me, well, I am not sure. I would have no problem with the science upgrading I would have to do to make the transition, and money and time are not a hinderance either, but caregiving roles are scary and I doubt I have the constitution required to work in a hospital.
Some days I just want to get away from all this committee-style project work (committees do seem to expand, don’t they?) and do something more hands on, like building furniture or working with metal.
Could anyone disillusion—or enlighten—me about what they do?
On that Fat – you are right . I tend to just agree and Know Kay is a liar . What sucks about that is that she can’t just say what she is . Likely a lowly employee with fuckin stats can or something . Hey a job is a job I say . We all know she has nothing of what she speaks and yes – she is entertaining . I mean – that last post was likely copy and pasted from some newspaper article . I’d like to see anyone do their jobs without the building to do it in . Thats what we do as masons and carpenters – we build buildings . And there is nothing wrong with IT and or computer nerd jobs – I can use them when it comes to CAD designs on buildings and such – and their building of the net and email services and wireless saves me gas money instead of running to offices or whatever to pick up plans or codes and permits KUDOS to them !!! Yea go into health care – I suggest that if you like living in that states – because thats the only place they all go to make good money . Theres a shortage of health care practitioners for a reason in canada – we don’t pay well .
Information tech is ok and not bad – but thats all hit and miss for getting paid and unless your working for yourself – its hard to get into something good and you may as well remain a server . They are like servers because IT companys fall face flat just like resturants anyways and you need to be transient to do that work . Skilled trades are by far still one of the most rewarding and well paying with expotential for advancement .Having a skill trade also makes it alot easier to own your own business – work as a sub contractor under your own company -doing this you fall into getting tax breaks instead of paying for them .
Another thing is less time and money spent on schooling and more time actually doing your trade and supportting your economy instead of 10 years university and owing the government for the next twenty years . I have yet to see a long term U grad without drowning debt for years and going bankrupt over loan debt . Thats pretty rare in skill trades where you start making your money before you even graduate in most cases . Not knockin University and degreed workers – just answering the question whats better to go into .
rubyjane my brothers a non-cnc machinist with his own jobing shop and it’s brutal right now; he was doing really well like 10 years ago with alot of injection molding manufacturing work; that’s dried up basically completely; (this is in southern On. i don’t know about NS)
I sometimes pull academic rank with people but I absolutely cannot look down at people for their choice in educational decisions. They can go to university, college, community college or be a drop out if they want to; its their right.
Last week I met a guy who admitted that he only has his grade 8. However, he owns his own company, makes over $100K a year after taxes and LOVES his trade/work. He’s doing better than a lot of people are and handles his business (private and professional) very well. He’s all for education also; if its for you then do it!
Frig, I wish I was clearing $100K and running my own business.
Oh, and his gf is VERY hot too. He’s doing somethings very right!
Having spent too much time in university as both a student and instructor, here is my take on the value of that path vs the trades/technologies:
1) Schools do a terrible job of advising kids about the reality of certain jobs: they tout university as the be all and end all, and provide very little encouragement for all the careers outside of that realm—especially entrepreneurship. The problem here is that most teachers only know “school world” and too many schools have closed down their trades and technology labs for “economic” reasons. (Bad move, I know. Talk to your MLA.)
2) If you are a person who craves intellectual work, or deeply desires to work in one of the classic professions, then university is the only path that will provide this. Trades are great, for the right person, but they won’t satisfy the ambitions of someone who wants to be a doctor or lawyer, just as examples. Likewise, a person who loves hands-on work will likely be very unhappy if they settle for another kind of work.
3) Too many people show up at university not understanding how it is meant to function: that it is ultimately intended to lead to self-directed study—for adults who already know why they are there. Students are very much on their own in figuring this out, and many cannot cope with the “sink or swim” situation. Many young students expect an extension of high school, and don’t have the skills to make use of the services like the library system, the writing centre, tutorials, study groups, and of course, online resources. Many flounder, not because they are not smart but because they honestly don’t know how to “use” university to get what they need.
4) I wish parents and teachers would stop promoting the “general” BA or BSc as an end in itself. It is NOT. If a person really, truly, more than anything in the world truly wants to study, say, English or Political Science (guilty!), then they MUST know in advance that you can’t “stop” with “just” the Bachelor’s degree. In the 1970s, a BA was worth much more, and was very cheap to get, but today, sadly, the BA is treated like a high school diploma. If you really, really LOVE English, or say, History, or Biology or Psychology, (ie, simply CANNOT live without doing it) you have to continue on to the graduate level if you want to get a job in that kind of field—OR you have to use it as a “first” degree as the basis for a “real something” like . . . teacher, journalist, lawyer, doctor, pharmacist, occupational therapist or other skilled trade or profession. (IT and Engineering are the exceptions—the Bachelor’s degrees lead directly to a career.)
5) One other thing: I think there is a terrible loss to our society when people denigrate the value of skilled work like building construction or aircraft mechanics. Working with one’s hands is one of the most satisfying of all human experiences. However, people who choose to specialize in a trade should remember that the wages tend to level off at some point, and a person in their 40s (prime mortgage and family responsibility time) can get “stuck” at a certain income level. A tradesman (or woman) who wants to do really well must keep constantly upgrading their level of knowledge and should plan to become business owners at some point.
I don’t disparage one direction over the other, but I wish people would keep in mind that they are two different ways of working and different kinds of people will find happiness only if they choose the path that is right for them.
Admittedly – the NS economy isn’t great for alot of trades .Thou – the wages are comparative to living expenses , and abit above . Unless your going to go out on your own in NS and are able to generate enough clients and customers to support yourself – you pretty well will be just making good money . Problem I have with alot of provinces is just wage – they don’t pay well for what your doing . In NWT or alberta – especially northern alberta – they have the top wages ( if the oil booms busts – so do most building projects ). I have transferable tickets across provinces (some i have to write their tests to qualify to province)
As with everything – you need to research your heart and head first and see what it is that will satisfy you as a career . And secondly – be ready to go other places with your skills to get the top dollar anyone should demand for a skill trade job . Ruby – furniture / cabinet makers can make excellent money once you can produce a product people want .Metal work is awesome too – but to make money – do you want to be climbing on the outside of 60 floor buildings welding iron for 65 bucks an hour in BC and Alberta? Or do you want to be in a trailer/autoshop making 19 dollars in NS ?
As i don’t have alot of knowledge in other careers as i only do mine and inform myself of the related to mine – Go see a career person at NSCC or maybe just check out all the classes they offer . Once you’ve done that – ask the trades/career people in that filed about your chosen career and see what they do and make . Being an educator previous Ruby – you know as well as we know its alot easier teaching someone else then it is to teach yourself something .I wish you all the luck in finding what your heart desires in your search .If you get a ticket in something in the next few years I can put you onto something in Alberta that takes 1st year apprentices at good wages in most trades.
Ruby I quess after reading again your post ( yes i don’t think what i read its obvious ) – I agree – way to much emphasis from instructors and parent about ” get that 10 years of uni and you’ll be set . ” Wrong and right both ways . Yea it may make you a 1000 dollar an hour criminal scientist or whatever and we need that – but you have no money in those 10 years and the next ten years is spent paying your loans . Hard ball yea but needed – yes !!!
I grew up in a vocational family with mostly vocation education . That may be why i found college really easy and had a couple choices of careers . I entered college with 7 credits from grade 10 – that was all I needed at that time to get in . I was certified in carpentry before my ID could get me into a bar and was cashing nice paycheques for a kid under 18. But that was back when automechanics, plumbers, electritions ,and carpenter/ bricklayers where focused trades . Internet ? Computers? huh . University was for the rich kids whos daddys bought them their cars – not us buy your own stuff kids. We had to have careers early or we wouldn’t be living or eatting anywhere beside a ditch .
I think the focus is going back towards skill trades because i see alot of young bucks ( and lots more females as well ) showing up on our sites looking to score apprenticeship hours and some skills. Theres nothing better then staring at a beautiful building that a year ago was a hole in the ground ( in my case sometimes something that has burned down or been damaged) and knowing you had a hand in making that fucker happen .
1) Lots of servers make 50k a year if they have the right gig, you guys are wrong.
2) “”still I make twice that easily on a slow year .”” yeah, but you have to live in Bumfuck Alberta with 5000 other highly-paid under-sexed seasonal workers vying for the same tired old hookers and $600 bag of weed, sitting in your $2000 a month (shared) mobile home freezing to death while the call center “losers” are back in NS ass-fucking your wife…yah, I ve BEEN to your Alberta “boom” town town dude, lol, and loved seeing it my (heated) rear-views…
“””Not knockin University and degreed workers” That’s good to hear. Some limited schoolin’ might have helped your writing skills, btw, but I do agree many trades are well-paid. Besides, putting your thoughts and ideas down on paper is not apparently that important when your installing shitters in the local library.
And bear in mind, that it was a “degreed” individual that designed that building that your nailing the walls up in…and it’s probably a “degreed” person’s name that’s going up in the front foyer of that high-rise that you’re laying the bricks on, —so I wouldn’t get TOO smug…you still have the YELLOW hard hat and the pick-up, not the WHITE one and the Lexus, lol
3) “”I would rather know how to build some things like furniture…”
Indeed. But there’s a world of difference between a skilled cabinet maker and some bozo who can frame condos, don’t forget…and yet it’s often the roofer/framer that makes more money these days…market forces being what they are.
And I guarentee you, with the way houses are built these days…very few tradesmen could build one on their own, or even know how too, very few…electricians can’t frame, roofers have no idea how to insulate, plumbers can’t wire the lights and so on and so forth.
It’s a myth that today’s carpenter can “build his own house”, ususally not, especially the younger ones…
BMF your thinking of fort macmurry . I live in residential calgary with 1 million people . Though you are right about ft mac and other northern places . And i pay less then NS prices for my weed in this city it’s actually cheaper – and bar sluts are free. I don’t vy for jobs with seasonal workers ( here they are laborers us skilled ones are firmly established here in some of our trade with our own businesses ) we actually hire the seasonal workers . I’m not disagreeing with you on any of your statement because it rings totally true for the northern – but in southern alnerta – we actually have more jobs available then they do up north . You actually need tickets and smarts here to work or you won’t last and will find yourself at tim horton slinging double doubles . Northern alberta has a hiring policy that states ” if you have a heart beat your hired ” . We have some of the best safety records on our site where northern has a pissy record due to unskilled workers blowing up – smashing and basically not understanding the launguage spoken .
Either way i drive an acura not a lexus because i don’t like lexus . And my hat is white.
And I guarentee you, with the way houses are built these days…very few tradesmen could build one on their own, or even know how too, very few…electricians can’t frame, roofers have no idea how to insulate, plumbers can’t wire the lights and so on and so forth.
This is why we have different skilled trades working frosty. Not being a cunt – just pointing it out .
Is it a nice hat, hog? lol
Awesome hat FAT LOL ! I had to many years in the yellow and blue ones to get mine !! Oh and BMF – the fuckers on site that are not crew wear white hats so we know who to drop shit on . You can tell them ones .
One other thing:
IF a person REALLY, TRULY wants to get a university degree in a good field that will lead to a satisfying and well-paying career, PLEASE do not let the student loan issue discourage you.
IF a person chooses, let’s say Engineering or Nursing as examples, there are co-op programs that provide some paid work sememsters, and there are usually good jobs available upon graduation, with salaries that are livable, or better. And don’t forget, SOME university degrees will pay for themselves MANY times over during your working life.
ALSO, it is possible to take a reduced course load (taking certain classes in the summer or in an “extra” semester), so that you can do some part-time paying work during school. (And you can save thousands of dollars by keeping your personal expenses ie cable, phone service, car, clothes, ski trips . . . and yes, beer . . . down to a reasonable level.)
I only mention this because some people do think that it is impossible to go to university unless you are rich, or that you have to take on $50,000 in debt—they may think that certain options are closed to them. NOT NECESSARILY! University CAN be done economically, if you plan carefully.
But if anyone out there is reading this . . . PLEASE do not take out a $50,000 loan to take a degree in English, that will land you a receptionist job paying $18,000 a year on graduation.
NGF: You are right man, my uncle didn’t finish his first year of University (didn’t suit him or he didn’t really like it) and now…he’s a multi-millionare, was the Chairman of the Bank of Canada and sits on many boards of directors to this day. He never let it slow him down or get in his way of succeding, I always respected him for that…plus he’s like the World’s Coolest Uncle…he’d be just as excited about some cool rc plane as I would! He is exactly who I base my own efforts at being an uncle…and I love it when I hear my nephews calling me “CoolestFunnest Uncle in the World”, best job I have ever had.
Guess it shows that sometimes you need little or no school to succeed !!! I know alot of older people in some of my trades that have grade 8 – 10 and these guys own awesome businesses and have plenty employees under them . It all depends what you want to do – even IT techs or people of that sort – alot of them are self taught and have the knack to teach themselves what they need to know. This newer generation is hell bent on education and prolonged years in university or whatever – which is fine – but alot of people can go it on their own Good on them !!! I was already a master carpenter and 3rd year mason before i got my grade 12 , but only because of upgrading purposes and the requirements involved in my trade – not because i needed it for myself. To whatever and whomever – no matter what you have for sdchool – if your successful – thats the point – . I hate listening to people still in school making 10 bucks an hour telling me I should go to school!! Why? I have my trades and careers and theres nothing else i want to do !!!