A certain city Councillor wanted to know why allegations of discrimination were not brought to her attention by management of the fire department. If the esteemed councillor for the south end wants municipal departments to bring forth every single incident involving discrimination, we should see nothing but incidents of discrimination at city council. I am sure between the department of transportation, metro transit, access Nova Scotia and the other major departments there could be several incidents of gender, age, race, or disability discrimination noted per day. We create policies inside our departments to handle these incidents. In the fire department the incidents were handled, and the black firefighters are angry that no one was fired. No one was fired because of the union. The union printed a racist editorial, and somehow, people are seeing this as a management problem? I think the coast should check on its sources and make some retractions and stop attempting to defame the characters of several respected public servants.
I find it outrageous that a select few journalists are questioning the credibility of public servants who have dedicated thirty plus years to serving Nova Scotia as fire fighters. You obviously trying to build a career. If you think you can build yourself up by tearing others down, you are dead wrong. The incidents which occurred at Halifax fire were isolated and have been dealt with. The Management took appropriate action, and would have fired everyone involved if it were not for the union that the news paper seems to be protecting. These accusations are extremely political, and the journalists who have written about the Racism allegations in both the coast and the Chronicle Herald have been very selective in reporting and show absolutely no integrity. Prove me wrong, Mr. *******. and publish this bitch.
—flaming mad
This article appears in Apr 16-22, 2009.
Doesn’t anyone find “The Black Firefighters Association” to be racist in itself? What an outcry there would be if there was a White Firefighters Association.
Double standard?
Racism goes both ways
The White Fire Fighters Association was the entire fire department from 1749 to about 1995. They started letting blacks join after that but, if the allegations are true, only as sort of a coloured auxiliary.
I find it interesting that a group formed specifically to resist and counteract racism is called racist. Out in Richmond BC, four women firefighters have successfully sued the department for gender discrimination; I suppose that since they didn’t let men join their lawsuit, they are also sexists, eh?
No senile, Tim is right, In order to be racist you have to be in a position of power. Other wise your actions are prejudice. A black man who won’t associate with a white man because of his skin color is prejudice and vice versa. Racism is institutionalized or social discrimination based upon race. Often you will hear someone describe someone a Racist, although this can accurately describe there demeanor, unless they belong to a group of some sort which is discriminating, they are prejudiced against a certain class, race or gender.
I do agree with the concept senile, that the Black association of fire fighters is a flawed concept and a fool hardy organization, but not for the reasons of race. Forming an organization with in an organization is improper and not usually allowed. However given the special circumstances it is acceptable, but should follow proper avenues. What I do find rather prejudice about this organization is that it is specifically for black firefighters. It would be better to form an organization of fire fighters who have a specific mandate of targeting in house discrimination. That way, homosexual firefighters and female firefighters could meet to discuss issues that are relevant.
What I find most alarming about all this talk about racism in the fire department is that the media seems to be sensationalizing the issue and looking for scapegoats. Rather then attack the real source of the problem, Prejudice fire fighters; they have gone after the management, who are dedicated public servants. The real issue seems to be the news letter the union printed, and the inability of the management to take real action, because of union protection.
All this whole thing has done is too divide the fire department, and make white people afraid to hire minorities. The positive sin of the whole issue is that it has raised the issue of race and gender in relation to policy, and to show us that our print media is not willing to show true impartiality. However that being said I do respect the Editor who printed my bitch a whole lot more now.
oh and by the way. Contrary to what these jouralists say, “The White Fire Fighters Association was the entire fire department from 1749 to about 1995.”
The Halifax Fire Service was founded in 1754 as the Union Fire Club. It took 203 years before the first black fire fighter, William Carter, joined the ranks of some of Halifax’s bravest in 1957.
Like Halifax, Dartmouth was behind the times and hired their first black firefighter, George Cromwell, in 1974.
Lieutenant Billy Carter,
The First Black member of the Halifax Fire Department,
1957 – 1973
Rafiki– thanks for your comments.
You understand that difference between discrimination and racism, and that’s something we should all sit down and think about…
and, you’re also right that I missed a handful of blacks hired into the system… I actually have been given the opportunity to interview one of them, and will, very soon.
Did I miss something?
What union published missive? What firing of everyone involved except for union protection?
So much of the pieces were sensationalised, but the letter? notice? is true and they know everyone involved? The IAFF is an amazingly powerful organization that can get around all laws and make management cave when it comes to doing what it right?
Mike Eddy is to be believed as a responsible public servant? This is the man that was pushed to retire before his term ended, entered politics because he was “bored” and had rude and nasty things to say about the winner because he is such a great guy?
Where is the 5% kernel of truth that is buried in most “responsible” journalism these days to be found. That there is prejudice today in the fire service, that is about it. Jaded enough to believe that prejudice will always exist, as we fear what we don’t know. And dialogue is better than action but most of us are reactive and don’t stop to look at the big picture.
Are the black fire fighters angry that no one was fired? How do I know that? How do you know that? How do we even know that any process was flawed, as a four year old reminded me lately “Life isn’t fair”. But neither is getting everything we want fair.
None of the pieces have been balanced, none have promoted dialogue and certainly the antagonistic approach of involving lawyers has stifled discussion and understanding and furthered the fingerpointing and blame.
Do we go the way of Nelson Mandela or the way of the war crimes tribunals of Rwanda.
Is the HRBFA ( sp) helping understanding of differences, promoting a safe place for venting frustrations or perpetuating isolation and stereotyping? I guess we would have to ask its members what is their goal?
And thanks Rafiki for pointing out that there have been black fire fighters for a few more than 12 years in HRM fire. The journalist involved couldn’t even get that basic fact right, so what else is wrong? And people, you didn’t just have to be white to be hired prior to that, you had to have the correct last name, the right friends. So there has been a lot of changes in the last 15 years, not just for blacks, females etc but the population of HRM in general…
Now management – probably couldn’t hold up to quite the same scrutiny of “process”.
And Tim, as a female, if the problems the women were having out in BC also applied to men, different sexual orientations etc and they actively excluded them from participating in the lawsuit – then they are at minimum prejudiced. It is about Human rights after all ..
Yes, and now you can all go on about my naivete as well…
But I do believe that the firefighters that arrive at my door to rescue my dog and save my house all genuinely want to be there and might even actually enjoy their job most days of the week..
Tim I honestly look forward to reading your next article. I can say that it is nice to find a writer willing to engage in a dialogue about issues written about. The Chronicle Herald has yet to print any letters to the editor who question any of the recent stories regarding this issue. I want to mention that Institutional racism was certainly present in the fire department prior to the Ninety’s. No one can refute that, however I hope you are planning to be fair to the current administration, and possibly willing to do what up until this point neither Mr. Simpson from the Chronicle Herald, Nor your self have done and do the research required to mention the steps that have been taken in recent times towards an equal opportunity work place at HRFD. A lot has been done in the past few years under the current administration to right the wrongs of the past. Policies at the fire department have altered drastically and I have seen no mention of any of it.
I actually agree with Rafiki for once; racism is meaningless coming from a person who is not in a position of relative power.
“make white people afraid to hire minorities”… did you actually say that, Rafiki? Racism, general intolerance and discrimination run rampant in these parts when compared to the mood of people in other parts of Canada. I was shocked people here take exception to blacks (and anyone else who’s different or is Francophone). I had a passing conversation with a black man when I first arrived in NS and it seemed like he was surprised I’d talk to him… it was just plain weird. I mean, we all bleed red, don’t we? What’s wrong with you people? I’m happy to see this formal human rights complaint in the public eye. It may go far to bring Nova Scotia up to some NORMAL social climate standards in a multi-cultural society. As for the rest of you who think this sort of discrimination doesn’t exist here… time to pull your head out of your ass, eh?
People talk about the small number of black firefighters in Halifax (20 of 494 apparently) but they never mention this:
Most recent statsCanada findings
Percentage of Blacks in Canada = 2.23%
Percentage of Blacks in HRM = 2.19%
Percentage of Blacks in HRM Fire = 4.04%
So, statistically speaking, free of bias, free of any judgment, black firefighters in Halifax are almost doubly overrepresented.
Actually quite fond of research myself and was just looking up the population information when noticed yorkke’s post.
http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement… and search for Halifax
And from a finger count of stations etc there are about 84 Captains in HRM and 3 Afro-Canadian Captains which is slightly more than proportional representation by the population base. So no discrimination for promotion at least to level of Captain that I can see. And there is a black member of a Combat challenge team. And the single black firefighter that was hired in the last 20 persons hired is actually the proportional representation expected from the population base.
Discrimination by gender is huge – as we female types make up slightly more than 50 % of the population of HRM and don’t came even close to that in firefighter numbers.
But what percent of applicants are female? That’s something that we would never be told.
I searched and searched for the news article/shows that followed female HRFES candidates at the last designated recruitment as I thought that might give an idea of what numbers of women that apply versus make it. I couldn’t find anything on the net.
But I could find information about HRM police in the Halifax magazine article about Brenda Zima http://www.halifaxmag.com/pastissue_articl…
Generally Fire and Police follow pretty similar training routines and selection processes. ( and quite well established rivalry) So it is remarkable the different numbers of female firefighters versus female police officers ( 84 out of 445 with 11 out of 26 recent recruits being female).
Canadian Forces recruitment sites show only 1.6 % of the direct combat force is female but they show 12 % women as career soldiers.
But when have you last seen a show on TV that has a female firefighter? There are lots of TV spots for female cops (and visible minority firefighters) etc. In fact Third Watch had a significant female cop presence but the female firefighters were delegated to EMT duties….
The gender discrimination or suggestion that firefighters are all men is a wide spread cultural thing. Addressing it is likely more complicated than just a designated hiring. And most Fire Chief sites seem to have ideas and ways to address the gender disparity in the fire services as they see it as a problem. And after all my reading I bow down to those who are going to have to work these processes out.
So maybe we need to ask Bill Mosher if he thinks he needs to address gender disparity and what plans and novel ways he has to do this… Do you think he would come to this conversation?
If Steve Thurber was quoted correctly as stating there shouldn’t be female firefighters as they all go off on maternity leave ( and there is a big “if” to the quoted correctly) then he needs to apologize to his mother and needs to move out of his position as the bus is not likely to stop for him and he is going to get run over.
However, my hat is off to the firefighters who get through the process, my head hurt just reading all you had to do to qualify. And girlfriends who got through, you rock..
You need to stop thinking of man or woman white or black. your additude is the problem. If you knew me would you refer to me as your black friend or refer to me by name?
Seriously. Find another lost cause to rally behind. You have no idea what real discrimination is. Try being a tutsi in a hutu villige.
I don’t want any female firefighters that can’t carry me if need be…. personally that’s my opinion.
Of course, I don’t want any scrawny male ones that can’t cut it either.
I’d gladly take Helga the shotput champ over Steve Urkle any day of the week, but it doesn’t seem as desirable a job for ladies as government/law/clarical/IT/even waitressing or retail….
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem.. I just don’t see much of one in this case.