Three things that people blame the wrong party for that really annoy me:
1. Tim Hortons cups on the ground- Tim’s has nothing to do with the garbage on the ground. They are not responsible for everyone’s inability to put their garbage in its place. There’s plenty of other litter on the ground, it’s just that the coffee cups are the most recognizable, especially at this time of year when everyone’s on their “roll up the rim” frenzy and get pissed because they didn’t even win a doughnut. No shop, cafe, restaurant or any other retail outlet is responsible for what their customers do after they leave the store.
2. VLT addictions- VLT’s are an inanimate machine. They do not cause addictions. Getting rid of them will not make an addict stop gambling. A gambler will simply find another means of feeding their addiction.
3. Twinning highways is the best way to stop highway deaths from accidents. Well, sort of, but really, the best solution is to do something really radical, like umm, driving the speed limit. Any of these highways that have such high accident rates always are proven that the drivers drive well above the posted speed limit. Blaming the road is not the answer. Slow down, people. You’ll be less likely to lose control of your vehicle.
—wanted to vent
This article appears in Feb 26 – Mar 4, 2009.
Very well put WtV! I agree 100%. Problem is, people don’t want to take responsibilty for their own actions. Everything is always someone else’s fault, because it’s easier that way.
AGREED!
No one takes any personal responsibility these days. It’s sick.
Just like drug dealers. They sell their product, and people just aren’t responsible with what they do with it, but everyone rags on the drug dealers.
Blaming the wrong people.
Same thing with selling booze to underage people. And selling arms to terrorists.
It’s the people who buy the stuff who are to blame, not the people who sell it.
I mean, obviously.
I don’t think that’s what the OP meant, Tim. Obviously in some cases the provider is the problem….but there is a time and a place for personal responsibility and blaming Tim Hortons when people are too fucking lazy to throw their garbage away is kind of silly.
VLT’s are a good example. Victimization is indeed rampant in today’s society. However, Tim brings up a good point, sometime the people who enable the problem are just as bad. We all are responsible for our actions, but the enablers need to back off as well. Therein lies the rub. When an gambling addict approaches the VLT, the addict needs to have the willpower not to play, but the province (in this case the enabler) needs to work said addict to support them (which they do, in some cases very poorly). This puts the ball in the addict’s court. The addict needs to stand up and take charge and own the problem. Easier said than done, I know, but honestly, we’ve all been in that situation on way or another.
I agree with the first and last point. Some people are inherently lazy and ignorant and drop their garbage everywhere. That’s not Tim Horton’s fault. If this were true I would also blame Coke or Pepsi or Lay’s, etc.. Also, the OP is right about the twinning of highways. If they were more diligently patroled for speeders, there would be less accidents. Unfortunately I cannot agree with VLT’s. The province puts them out there knowing that a large percentage of the users have gambling problems. The only reason they exist is because they are cash cows.
Well….I wouldn’t liken Tim Hortons to a dealer in this sense (when the “drugs” we’re talking about in this example are VLTs or any other gambling device)…not putting your junk in the garbage is just lazy.
I know what you’re saying though Dr F, but like I said to Tim, some people just need to take a little more personal responsibility in their lives (i.e.: no one’s enabling you to speed or litter, really. Those things are just people being fucktards).
Obviously, people should be responsible.
But the world works the way the world works. A certain percentage of people are going to be dumb shits, or on drugs, or whatever. Hey, I don’t like it either, but that’s the reality. Given that reality, the burden of responsibility shifts.
Absolutely Kitty, however, sometimes to enable needs to take responsibility. In most cases they do; Timmy’s cups have warnings and info on the side to toss them in the right area. VLTs have warnings before you play; and the government has problem gambling support (what I find really funny is that there is one right inside the Casino). But these are examples where it’s either a government agency or corporation. Some businesses don’t bother (i.e. bars serving alcoholics).
Wow, its almost like I’m reading The Chronicle Herald all of a sudden.
If corporations are not responsible for the trash they produce then who is? The customer, you say? There are litter laws that could be enforced to deal with the cups (make criminals of coffee drinkers, good idea in the HRM, yup) but shouldn’t the corporation that produces the litter in the first place take some proactive anti-litter approach? (Charge a nickle deposit on the cups… they’ll ALL come back eventually)
If an addict had any self control where their drug (or behavior) of choice was concerned they wouldn’t be an “addict” nor require any public support to get well (these people are ill, not criminals). A VLT is, indeed, an inanimate object that couldn’t cause addiction even if it had a will of it’s own but, OP, newsflash, cocaine is an inanimate object too without will of it’s own. So is caffeine! The list goes on. You’re right, addiction is a personal problem but let’s take a little responsibility for our neighbors and treat them with respect. You don’t wander into an AA meeting offering a round to all in attendance out of respect for addiction. Killing the Keno idea would be along the same lines, don’t you think?
Safe highways? We have enough statistics and enough experience to recognize there is a problem with so many deaths on a single stretch of highway. Time to solve the problem. Yes, take personal responsibility and drive with care but also realize why those politicians make a lot more money than you and then make them work for it. The highways need to be safe for all, not just the ones who know this stretch is a killer.
A couple of comments on your input kay: To your coffee cup argument, what actually make you think people will go back to Tim’s to get a measly 5 cents back? People rarely get their 10 cents back for liquor bottles. The corporations do just fine by placing messages on the side of the cup and in the locations themselves. They are a corporation and a business; they’re not a environmental concern. People are just lazy, and that’s the end of it.
The addicts are indeed responsible. They chose to do the drug, play the game, etc., that they became addicted to. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it is not an illness. That puts absolutely no responsibility in the addict’s lap, and that is a dangerous road. What would happen if an addict breaks in to your home, and steals everything in it. Are they responsible in your example? No, they’re ill, thus not responsible. We don’t blame someone who is mentally ill for stealing something, we take the item back and we put them in a hospital (insanity defense). Drugs are a chemical dependency, not an illness. Finally, comparing caffeine to a serious drug addiction, is insulting. You’ve obviously never lived with anyone who has had a serious addiction, or had one yourself. Go ask a family who has been affected by an drug addict and they’ll tell you differently. Caffeine doesn’t tear a family apart. Should caffeine have support groups? Should dark pop drinkers have support groups? Come on, Asshole.
Dr Fever, You are obviously very young.
How many refundable pop bottles do you see littered on the ground? Not to say there are zero but, at a nickle a piece, all the panhandlers would have something productive a useful to do with their day, don’t you think? When I posted I thought a nickle might be too much for the consumer to pay for such an insta-problem-solver.
Addiction is indeed a disease. Caffeine is at the top of the list of addictive substances. The effects of caffeine are far less destructive than that of alcohol, cocaine and, yes, even gambling or sex addictions. I’ll not argue that each of us doesn’t have the choice to avoid addictive behaviors and substances (and porn) but, alas, we are only human. MOST of us need help to do anything significantly right with our lives. MOST of us suffer from addiction in one sense or another. The only real assholes out there are the ones that speak from their asses, *clears throat* Dr Fever.
Fever, I’d like to respond to your comment about the deposit on coffee cups. Are you old enough to remember when there was no deposit on most beverage containers? Pop cans littered the street everywhere you went. I can’t remember the last time I saw a pop can on the ground. And I’m pretty sure it’s not because people have stopped littering. It may be politically incorrect to acknowlege it, but there is an army of people who would be more than happy to pick up those Tims cups if they were worth a nickel. Put a deposit on those suckers and within days there won’t be a discarded cup to be found.
I do remember, and no, I’ve not seen a difference. In fact, most people who cannot reach an eviro-depot, which is about 60% of the population in Halifax proper, either just toss them into a recycling bin or in the garbage (sadly, there’s a reason why there are people at HRM’s waste disposal facility to sort garbage. Go there and you’ll realize how often those containers go into regular garbage, among other things).
Kay: Simple question, what is your reasoning that addiction is a disease, beyond your personal opinion?
Yes, Fever, I understand that people will still throw their recyclables in the trash. But I was referring specifically to litter. Waste diversion is a whole other, and perhaps more complicated problem. But I really think a deposit on disposable coffee cups would effectively eliminate them as litter.
Why would addiction not be classified a disease in your world, Fever? Health professionals the world over have been treating it’s symptoms for decades. After the education about addiction being a disease I look on the city street and see the affects the various forms of the disease have on individuals, their families and our communities. Addiction to wealth (greed) motivates a big chunk of us. Shall we talk semantics some more?
I think calling addiction a disease is a cop out and demeans “real” diseases like cancer and MS. If you choose to play that first VLT or inject your first needle of heroin then you are enabling your own addiction to happen. In most cases, medical diseases (except for maybe lung cancer in smokers) are not enabled by the sufferers actions. That is the difference.
SA: I see your point, however, I actually feel it won’t do any good. It just puts the ball in the homeless person’s court, just another reason for us to be lazy and litter even more (why should I go back when I can put a homeless person at personal risk by digging around in a garbage can, and everyone wins? I get to be lazy, and the homeless guy gets another nickle to go spend on Lysol to get drunk.) sadly, in this case we need to assume that people will not do the right thing, because we have a society that puts responsibility on others.
Kay: we are not arguing semantics, we are arguing science (biochemistry to be exact). You may not feel that way, but this is indeed a scientific matter. Health professionals treat the after effects of the abuse (i.e.: withdrawal) that is when it becomes a “disease” and even that has been contested recently. Drug abuse itself, and by association, addiction, is a chemical dependency. That is not an illness, and is not classified as such by medical professionals and by psychologists. Your argument that an emotion (greed) is an addiction, is semantics, and is less scientific and more philosophical.
Broc, open your mind. You break your leg. Your doctor prescribes a narcotic. The next thing you know you’re taking the drug every 4 hours whether you need it or not. WHAM you’re an addict suffering withdrawals when the prescription runs out but your leg still hurts and you “need” more. That’s just one “excuse” for the onset of severe addiction. It’s a sneaky and smart disease!
Broc, what do you say to those who suffer addiction and THEN cancer as a result? Do you care more for those dying of cancers not related to addictive behaviors?
Fever… go look up sex addiction, gambling addiction, kleptomania, etc. There is no external chemical substance involved with the devastating addiction behavior associated with the disease.
The simple fact that addiction comes with physical, psychological and social withdrawal should compel the average human being to feel for those who suffer such afflictions, if we care about human beings at all, that is.
Kay: When you’re prescribed a narcotic for pain (Tylenol 3 is a good example), scientific evidence shows that you are not addicted at the end of of the run due to the fact that it was used for pain and nothing else. Your body uses the substances created by the narcotics for said pain, and therefore does not become abused, which is the diagnostic criteria for addiction. That’s why there are limits on refills, etc. and the reason why in most pharmacies you can’t obtain harder narcotics such as Vicodin, Dilaudid, or Oxcontin is due to the fact they’re highly controlled. Your examples of psychological disorders, is incorrect. In this case you are confusing your definitions. Abuse of a drug and a psychological disorder are completely different and any doctor will tell you differently. Two of the examples you cited (sex addiction and gambling addiction) have actually have come under fire recently as not being actual disorders, because the people are not disturbed by the behaviour. Pedophilia, as unpopular as it is to think this way, is in the same boat. Did you know up until 1977, homosexuality was considered a psychological disorder? You obviously don’t know much about addictions, have not read any text on addiction for you to think that way.
I agree with some of your rebuttal, Fever. In my example I cited you taking the narcotic every 4 hours whether you “needed it or not”. It matters WHY you do any behavior/substance as to whether it becomes addictive (and therefore abused) or not (gambling for fun versus gambling to win). And some substances are controlled as they are more “addictive” than others and yet addiction, as you’re defining it here, is not a psychological disorder or a disease but a choice or a lifestyle. I agree, it’s up to the person to take that first step towards addiction but more often than not they have help.
FYI The brain chemistry of the winning gambler has more in common with that of a heroine junkie getting a fix than the normal brain. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Just wanted to clarify a thing, or two. I’m not disputing addiction as not being a disease, I really don’t know if it is, or isn’t. My point was that there are those who try to blame the object, in this case VLT’s as if they were the sole cause of the addiction and there are a lot of people who would believe that getting rid of them would make the addict go back to their happy little life prior to the evil VLT, as if it never happened. But, that’s not the case, an addict will simply move on to something else. I just take exception to the blame being put in the wrong place. If the object were to blame, then every person that ever played one of these machines would get addicted, and that obviously is not the case.
“If corporations are not responsible for the trash they produce then who is? The customer, you say?” Yes, I say they are. We keep focusing on coffee cups like it’s the only trash out there. What if I went into a shoe store, bought some shoes, came out, took them out of the box and threw the box on the ground. Is it the shoe store’s fault that I did that? Of course not. Just because one company’s cups is the most noticeable litter doesn’t mean they should be held accountable when other companies aren’t. Who do you blame for all gum on the sidewalks? Gum companies? It still comes down to what lazy slobs a lot of people can be.
Correct, kay, however in your example of the context of the gambler, it’s not a chemical dependence. Heroin makes you addicted by becoming morphine in your bloodstream, and it blocks certain neurotransmitters. When someone takes a shot of heroin for than pain (i.e.: pleasure) it becomes addictive because the substance is not used. The body naturally produces opiates as a painkilling measure, and opiates in general fill that need when in great pain. outside of that, it becomes an addiction. That said, people don’t go out and hurt themselves to produce opiates naturally because there is significant loss to the body.
Gambling is an association. While I think gambling is indeed an addiction, you associate gambling with pleasure (win or lose) and that effects your brain completely differently, and a completely different centre of the brain. It’s much like the rat associating pressing the bar, and getting food.
EEvery Tim’s mickeyD’s etc that I’ve seen all have numerous garbage cans both inside and outside. Do you expect them (the companies) to put garbage cans every 10 feet so you can throw your garbage in? i keep a Sobey’s bag in my car and that’s where I put my garbage. When it gets filled, the next time I’m at a Tim’s gas station, etc, I put the bag into one of their recepticles. It’s that simple.
Haven’t seen it in the thread yet… though I didn’t bother reading kay’s….
I believe there already IS a levy on Tim’s cups BECAUSE they are so prevalent on the streets and in gutters. That’s why when you bring your own coffee mug in, you get a nickel (or dime or something) off the price… you’re not paying for someone to pick the cup you would have had off the ground. Those juvies need something to do other than clean staples off the noticeboards….
zZz, it’s “kindhearted, friendly and oh so courteous” people like you who make the HRM the HOLE that it is. Your ignorance is getting very boring.
The point of the deposit suggestion was to provide incentive to not litter. Whatever they charge for a cup is to cover their cost and does nothing to see litter off the street.
ah kay, did read this reply since I make a cameo.
it’s your self-righteous, egotistical, outside-of-the-box thinking attitude that makes people not want to give you change outside the coffee shop. 🙂
do you really feel like paying more for a cup of coffee?
How’s this for outside-the-box, they just nip it in the bud and stop printing cups. take your own mug or your shit outta luck. ‘course barely anyone would go there anymore…. but hey, no more tims cups to worry about. Problem solved.
How about they surgically suture a cup to every person as they hit 16. now they aren’t disposable and everyone has one on them at all times. great!
now we need to make sure they’re clean so every tim’s installs those soap wall-dispensers in the lineup for everyone’s arm-cups.
perfect!
the world is a little greener thanks to a little good, creative thinking.
To be truthful, I’ve never had a cup of coffee in my life. Caffeine is one addiction I live without. I could give a flying fuck if they wanted $10/cup but I do care where the garbage goes. Pretty selfish bitch, huh?
zZz, fuck you very much. Have a shitty day.
oh kay, if we could all be as self-controlling as you.
you’re such a model citizen.
For your good deeds and just to spite myself, I vote it’s officially “Kay day” today…
and I will have a shitty day today just for you.
btw, yesterday was shittier than you know.
hope you feel better.
It doesn’t matter what I wish upon you, zZz. YOU call “it” into your life. Open your mind a little, wish good things for your neighbors and have a better day today.