Dear Bitchers & Bitch Readers of Halifax, stop using slut as an insult. Slut-shaming drives me wild. Treat people with respect, even if you believe they have no respect for themselves. We have too many negative terms for women. No wonder young women are acting out this way! They are constantly told they are bitches and sluts. If we keep slapping on these negative labels these girls will grow up with a warped view: that being female and/or sexual is an inherently bad thing. It’s not. I say, Slut Pride! Let’s have a generation of women who are confident in themselves with positive self-image for once. —See You at Slut Walk Halifax
This article appears in Aug 4-10, 2011.
Ugh, you’re just all over the place and don’t make any sense. Try again.
Aw, shaddup, ya slot.
To quote a friend, “Cool story, brosephine”.
S’OK, d-mel, I speak bitch and understand just fine.
When’s the slut walk?
Yeah, feel the pride.
http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.…
LOVE THE WAY WE SLUT
Slut is not a degrading term used to describe all women, it’s a term reserved for women and men who fucked a boatload of random people. If you don’t want to be called a slut, keep the legs down, and for the men, keep it zipped up.
yeah, you should at least know the first and last names of everyone you’ve bang’d.
If not, you’re definitely a candidate.
The problem is people can’t handle the truth. If you dress like a slut, talk like a slut, and act like a slut, then people are going to call you a slut. So folks, how do you counter that? Well it’s pretty easy. Stop dressing like a slut, talking like a slut, and acting like a slut.
Fine. How about “syphilis-invested sperm dumpster” then?
You DO realize that while you’re “empowering” your idiot selves on your slut walk, the streets are lined with men who, instead of supporting a noble cause, are just seeing how many upskirt photos they can get. Women are treated like fools because they act like fools.
Stop fucking over our gender. If you’re proud to be a whorey piece of trash than be one. And shut the fuck up about it.
So great. You’re proud to be a slut. Good luck with that schtick 5 or 10 years from now.
Plus, you know.. the diseases. Some are impossible to protect yourself from, you know. “condoms” don’t really cut it with a good number of nasty STDs and STIs. So.. keep an eye on your nasty genitalia.. kthx.
and manwhores, that goes for you too.
I thought the slut walk was about sex workers’ rights?
iso-KAY and Org: Slutwalk started because of a Toronto policeman’s outrageous courtroom statement that women could prevent rape by how they dress.
Even if a woman was walking naked that does NOT mean she is asking to be raped. Forced sex is still rape no matter what the victim is wearing. Not all rape victims are scantilly clad. It was an absurd statement. Blaming the victim because the perpetrator lacks self control. Slutwalk was initiated to bring attention to the fact that blaming rape victims is no longer acceptable. It’s a concept that has caught on worldwide. Go figure!
You know … I’ll never understand how the thrill of 20mins makes up for the rest of my life living with some potentially fatal thing. I know you can get it from even people you trust my my gosh … why play Russian Roulette if you don’t have to … I’ll never understand, but people are free entities. They do as they wish.
*shrug*
As far as the walk … I feel like it does no good.
Yep, nothing says ‘self-esteem’, like being a proud slut. Sluts make great role models too.
Empowering the next generation of women, and shaping the views of all men.
Oceanchick. I should be able to walk downtown naked, with a thousand dollars hanging out my ass, and not get robbed. But that’s not the way things work, I’m a big man, but I sure as fuck don’t make a target of myself. And, no….someones appearance is not an exuse for violence.
Agreed. I can’t think of a term for sexually promiscuous men that is equivalent in contempt. “Male slut” and “man-whore” don’t carry the same connotation. It’s like the Nazi types who claim it’s alright to call a black guy a nagger (poor Randy Marsh) because black people call white people honkies.
And, IK, it’s not just people with STIs who have been labeled sluts/whores. A lot of religious institutions have in recent history (like past couple hundred of years) used the term to describe women without husbands who are/have been sexually active. This includes single mothers, unattached women, etc. Unfortunately this sentiment still exists, even though it’s not as potent as it once was (IMO – people are more liberal about sex). Just think about all the alpha males who are congratulated for every new lady they bone. Would a woman bragging about the same behaviour receive the same reward? I doubt it.
So slutty women are treated with relatively more scorn than slutty men. That’s inequality, and probably good reason to have a parade or some other social function. To bring awareness to and condemn inequality. Sure there may be other ways to do this, but this is also somewhat effective, or else people wouldn’t be talking about it.
Anyway, I don’t know what all the fuss is about. I wish everyday was a slut parade – for different reasons (i.e. not because some cop said that women deserve to be raped).
Um, myself and plenty of people use words like slut/bitch/cunt/twat for both men and women. For example I don’t call promiscuous men “players”, I call them sluts. Sometimes people ARE sluts and need to be called out for their slutty ways.
What’s wrong with being a slut??
Do what you want as long as you’re honest and willing to accept the consequences. I don’t particularly see why we need a slut parade (that happens downtown each weekend) and I wouldn’t want my children to be sluts but, isn’t that title a bit judgemental?
I believe I had this convo with Meow some time ago and it was agreed that the word slut doesn’t hold as much weight when said to a man. This is true.
There’s also nothing wrong (I guess) with being a “slut” or should I say … multiple sexual partners. It is just not the choice I would make for myself.
I do think people (men and women) will sleep around and do so with the disguise of it being empowering and somehow showing your freedom to do what you wish … then turn around and eventually want the emotional part of things. Sure humans are sexual creatures but you cannot continuously use yourself like a joystick and then not expect to feel like one eventually. That’s a whole other bitch though.
The slut walk is ridiculous to me. God knows I’m not against tiny clothing but “attacking” the subject lke this is silly. It really doesn’t make men or other people look on the “slut walkers” any friendlier. It deos however shed light on the issue … I don’t know. I guess you win some you lose some?
I understand the logic behind it but sometimes one must step away from an idea and exmine how it will be perceived.
lol really though AS. There’s a slut parade downtown every Halloween. At least that’s the biggest one. There are mini ones every weekend.
I just think, no, I KNOW, that a man fucking a lot of women takes effort and technique whereas a woman fucking a lot of men doesn’t. It’s not an accomplishment. Thus the double standard. I mean come on. Have you seen pictures of some of the ladies that have been busted for prostitution? Many are utterly hideous looking, but people PAY TO FUCK THEM! No one’s paying to fuck a sloppy ugly guy. That’s why he gets congratulated for what we see as an accomplishment when he gets laid.
It’s easy to be a slut. The way the police officer put it was definitely bad but there are ways to decrease your chances of being attacked and acting like a slut ain’t one of them. Take precautions, and have a LITTLE decency in how you dress. Just a LITTLE. I’m not justifying rapists actions, no one DESERVES to be raped. People don’t deserve to die in car accidents either but I still wear a seat belt and drive safe. People don’t deserve to get ran down in cross walks but people still take precautions.
Before I go out for a night out I look in the mirror, look at my outfit and demeanor and think to myself “what message am I sending?” Some of these girls need to do the same. That’s all.
I’ve delved into this before. The only difference is women attack EACH OTHER for their slutty behavior whereas men don’t.
I wouldn’t make a.. I won’t use the word slut or whore.. I wouldn’t make a promiscuous girl my girlfriend just like many women wouldn’t date a guy who is a known man whore. The only difference is we men do not hate on each other for our slutty ways, because it’s none of our business, and we know it’s not always a walk in the park for even good looking guys to get laid, so we don’t judge. Fact: attracting women requires more skill than attracting men. I don’t prescribe to the stereotype that a woman can go and get some sex ANY time she wants, but I think it takes more effort and skill and whatnot to KEEP a man than it does to GET a man.
Women love calling each other whores and sluts and bitches, I’ve heard the words out of their mouths probably much more than I have from my own male friends, and they definitely fall into the foul mouthed, somewhat misogynistic category. The real issue is why do women feel the need to tear each other down? Especially based on sexuality? I think it comes down to competition.
Slut pride is bullshit, how about being tasteful and keeping your business private? I don’t care who you fuck, but I don’t like when anyone, man or woman wants to make their sex life public knowledge. I lose respect for them.
Maybe I’m missing the point. I do agree that rape victims shouldn’t be blamed because of how they dress, but I mean why associate being a slut with rape victims? I don’t get it. Promiscuous women, whatever you want to call them, will never get any respect from me, especially if they take pride in it.
“look at my outfit” …awwwwwww lol I just imagined you twirling in the mirror.
GUYS CAN BE SLUTS TOO
I’m sure I’ll word this poorly….
It seem that “slutty” is a marketable commodity. Be a slut, it’s your choice. But I certainly don’t like who the target demographic, for the ‘slut’ merchandise, is. Can you guess, it’s your little girl.
There is, for example; Tattoo Barbie, a Pole Dance toy that looks like Dora The Explorer, pregger Midge, Little Lewd Riding Hood action figure with wolf, and I won’t get started on the Halloween costumes that are out there.
So now this, along with everything else about self-esteem and body image, a little girl will think that she has to be a skinny slut to be popular or successful.
Rape is generally NOT about appearance, it’s about power. The cop saying that a woman who dresses provocatively is asking to be raped is so ignorant it’s ridiculous. Most rapists do it for the power they have over their victim. Whether a woman is wearing a mini skirt and a bra, or a flannel nightgown has no bareing.
Eh. THe word “slut” is a derogatory term. Has been for a while. It’s used to insult someone.
I don’t see anyone going around preaching about “asshole” pride (except sebastard).
I should start a “doodie head” pride movement. Doodie heads should be proud of the fact that they’re doodie heads! And I KNOW y’all are with me!
Also: I thought the whole idea of the “Slut Walk” was to say that women can dress however they want and that doesn’t mean they’re sluts and it doesn’t mean someone who someone thinks is a slut or is dressed however deserves to be sexually assaulted… so you’re telling me that’s not the case, OP? That it’s all about being proud of your “town bike” status?
FFS.
Right Hugo, so is this “Slut Pride” enforcing or challenging stereotypes? It’s always a fine line.
I don’t think it’s cool to make being a slut cool. If it was named the “own your sexuality” walk or something I’d be more supportive.
I mean like I said, I’m not one to take the cops side, but he MIGHT just know what he’s talking about as he is the one who has to come to the scene after a rape has taken place.
There’s also a fine line between blaming victims and urging potential victims to take precautions. Dress however you want, just be aware of the message you send, and of your surroundings.
Don’t walk alone, especially scantily clad. Being under the influence and wearing shoes that are difficult to walk in, let alone run, is probably a bad idea too. failing to take these precautions increases your chances of an attack. Is it right? fuck no, it’s the way it is though. Ultimately you are responsible for yourself and it is up to you and no one else to protect yourself. You’re the one who will have to live with the attack’s after effects.
As much as I know a lot of women HATE this comparison, I don’t walk down the street flashing money or valuables because I am trying not to get robbed. I’m not comparing a woman’s body to a wallet or some jewelry, but it considered something of value to most people, and there are those that are willing to take it forcefully. Stay safe ladies.
I think slut is less demeaning than slit.
Big black book? More like AIDS parade.
..yep..you know the world is going to rat shit ,when being a slut is a good thing
I think I remember reading somewhere that you’re actually more likely to get raped if you’re *not* dressed “like a slut” because rapists see you as being vulnerable, whereas a woman dressed “like a slut” is seen as strong, confident, empowered, etc. I have no idea if it’s actually true or not, but it’s food for thought.
So all the female hookers/sluts will be out for Slut Walk handing out coupons for free blowjobs. Won’t that be a laugh.
Just to add to my tyrade, I don’t use the terms slut or whore lightly, as a matter of fact I rarely use them. Just cuz a girl has been with a few guys and maybe had a few non serious relationships, flings or one night stands doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a slut. But there is a line, and once you cross it you’re a slut. It’s called the slut line. That being said I try not to judge people but some people make it hard.
What about all the rape victims who were NOT dressed scantily? Rape is not about what you are wearing! It is about the rapist, not the victim! Are you telling me that men lose all control when they see a scantily clad woman and that it is HER fault that men can’t control their actions? BULLSHIT!
I dunno if that was directed at me, but no, OC that’s not what I’m saying. I don’t think that’s what anyone is saying.
Like I say, it’s a fine line between victim blaming and urging others to take precautions. Dressing skimpy is one thing but have more sense than to do it and try to walk home alone at night, intoxicated, in high heels. You look like a target. Just like I urge people who walk alone at night while wearing headphones to watch behind them because they are also easy targets.
Pretty sure the percentage of men who have never committed rape is in the high 90s. We can control ourselves.
And honestly I really don’t think the cop who made those comments was trying to place blame on the victim. I think his intention was to urge other potential victims to be careful.
My thing is what does being raped have to do with being a slut? I don’t get this slut walk. Make it a “stop blaming the victim” walk or something and I will partake in it. Being a slut is not an accomplishment and therefore not something to be proud of. I recognize that there’s a double standard in society when it comes to men and women’s sex choices, but saying you’re proud to be a slut, in my opinion does not do anything to help the problem. How about proving to the world that you can be a sexually free being without being a classless whore? It can be done.
My comment was not really directed at anyone Tommy just at the perception that rape has anything to do with what a woman is wearing.
The Slutwalk concept came from comments made by a cop who said basically what you are saying, that what a woman is wearing will increase her chances of getting raped.
It is a commly held misconception that needs to stop:
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/09/woman…
Why is it that a man who is scantily clad is not a target for rape by women but a women thus attired is?
Slutwalk is not about being sexually free. It is about misconceptions about rape. Period.
I just feel like people have a chip on their shoulder.
Someone warns you about creeps being out there and what you can do to lower the chances of being attacked and you respond with “What?! That’s sexist! I can dress however I want! Just because a woman dresses a certain way…” blah blah after indignant blah.
You think anyone’s really trying to say that someone deserves to be raped because of how they dress? No. In a perfect world none of us would have to take any precautions to protect ourselves, but this ain’t a perfect, or politically correct world.
I just think slut walk is a stupid name for this cause, and if you ask me it does little to raise awareness about anything. You want to raise awareness about rape and the misconceptions surrounding it, then make it about rape victims, not sluts.
Why don’t they just call it a walk against victim blaming? I guess Slut Walk gets more media attention.
My only problem with sluts (men and women) is that they eventually run out of other slutty people to have sex with and move on to us non-sluts.
Condoms don’t work for a lot of STDs so please just keep your sluttiness contained within your own slut universe.
Perhaps if you are so proud of being a slut you can all wear name tags so those of us who do not want to die of AIDs can steer clear of you.
Also, I agree with a lot of the other comments here.. they need to think of a better name of this walk because women who get raped are not “sluts” and this isn’t helping their cause.
Hahaha.. only slightly off topic.. but here’s something funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uscmRI9ZrE
thanks that was awesome…i love love love dave chappelle. he is up there with carlin and lewis black. “i’m rick james bitch” haahahahahahhhahh
I can’t view that youtube, but it is it the one about the “whore uniform”? I thought about that clip too.
lol Chappelle gets my vote for greatest comedian of all time, certainly when it comes to comics who do social commentary.
“Why is it that a man who is scantily clad is not a target for rape by women but a women thus attired is?”
umm.. because we live on planet earth. Seriously that’s a question a child would ask and I think you’re smart enough to know that.
Why aren’t women expected to hold doors and pull out chairs for men, or even for other women? Why do many, maybe most women want to date a guy that makes more, or at least as much money than them? Why is the sky blue? Because that’s how it is.
There was a time when women were not allowed to vote. There was a time when atrocities were allowed against other races. There was a time when you could be burned at the stake accused of witchcraft just because someone on a vendetta said so. Because that’s “just how it was”. Thank goodness we as a species are constantly evolving. Which is the whole ppoint of slutwalk. Women worldwide are saying this has to change. Because it doesn’t have to be that way.
THE ROOTS OF MISOGYNY
It is a commonplace to assert that rape is not about sex. Of course it’s not. It’s also a commonplace to assert – or at least it should be – that the thread “Slut Pride” has nothing to do with the definitions of “slut” or who is, or isn’t, a slut. Such observations totally miss the point. The point is, why do (some) men rape?
Some men rape – to the extent that it is rationally explicable – because of what might be called “gender power asymmetry.” What is gender power asymmetry? It refers to the imbalance of sexual power between the sexes.
In the non-human animal kingdon sexual relations are regulated by the female. She either is, or is not, “in heat.” In the case of the former she is receptive, in the latter she is not. The male, by contrast, is always “available.” He is, so to speak, always “up” for it. And rightly so since if both sexes were “up for it” there would be excessive reproduction and, eventually, the decimation of the species. But today things are not so straightforward. Today psychology enters the equation which, however, remains constant. The female is still in charge of sexual relations.
The rapist is a misogynist. He hates women because – apart from rape – they regulate sexual activity as they have always done. No means no. He realizes that he in thrall to the commands of the female. They control him. This, for the misogynist, is intolerable. He will show them who’s boss.
The female, on the other hand, knows that she is in the driver’s seat. Her role in the reproductive sweepstakes is to entice the male for the purpoaes of insemination and reproduction but before that she wants to let the male know his place. She dresses in what, to the panting male, is a provocative manner. She flaunts her charms and, indirectly, her superiority to the male. She’s a tease. Often the female is the psychological equivalent to the male misogynist. She is an androphobe, a male-hater. She wants to rub his nose into it to cement her superior status. For this, the male hates her. He will have his revenge. And we all know how.
But is there a way out of the conundrum? Is gender asymmetry hard-wired into out genetic make-up? But this must be a post for another time.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Very interesting conversation. My understanding of the “slut” walk is that it is a demonstration to bring attention to antiquated attitudes towards women that linger. It is not a celebration of the “slut” so much as a reminder that women are subject to a double-standard.That is, those ladies who dress provocatively have less moral fibre and maybe deserve what comes there way and maybe even, that’s what they want. The word “slut” implies that. Can men dress provocatively? Well nobody cares.
The police officer in question used this derogatory term to describe women he felt were at risk to be sexually assaulted due to their dress (or lack thereof). I’m not sure the officer meant it to be offensive but more of a wake-up call. However, it showed a lack of sensitivity and professionalism from law enforcement.
I am not sure there is a correlation between rape and provocative dress. Rape is power through violence and humiliation and rapists look for those who are vunerable. Prostitutes are a favorite target but not because they are scantily clad but because they are vunerable. A bank manager taking a shortcut through an alley by herself is as much of a target as the prostitute.
So the “slut” walk is about ignorance to me. To dress in a sexy manner is about female empowerment in terms of sexuality not about a stupid, sleazy woman who deserves to be gang-raped.
I think monsieur touched on a good point when he spoke about misogyny. With most animals, females control reproduction and I would bet that through most of human evolution that was the case as well. The last 10-20 millennia have seen the human race rise to dominate the planet. With more control of their environment, the need for controlled reproduction was less needed. Subsequent war and religion pushed the female into a minor role in society. Men took control of reproduction.
Only with the liberation movements of the last century has this started to be reversed. But attitudes, especially ones reinforced over generations, die hard. “Slut” is an echo of those old attitudes.
With men in control of reproduction, we now have a fucked-up planet with soon-to-be 7 billion people. Let’s give the reins to the ladies once again. If the slut walk is a tiny part of that, well giddy-up.
Hmmm MM inter.rest.ing … *strokes chin*
Just for informations sake… I have a family member that works for the infectious diseases branch of capital health. There is a distinct rise of the aids virus in Halifax, not just in either the gay community or the hetro community but both equally. There is also an untreatable form of syphilis that has made a huge surge lately, as well as gonherrea. I have been told that single people in Halifax should be very selective with whom they sleep with and beware. Condoms do not stop the spread of these diseases, and there are no outward signs that someone is infected with these diseases. “Sluts” should be very wary about their partners.
“There is also an untreatable form of syphilis that has made a huge surge lately, as well as gonherrea.” Epidemiology shows that it’s (mainly) coming from out west … from people who come back from working …
In any case it pays to be extra vilgilant! Ya never know!
RSVPs
Troondonk 4 (Aug. 16, 9:54PM) “I am not sure of the correlation between rape and provocative dress.”
But this was my point all along. There is none. That is why the cop’s talk about dressing like a “slut” and inviting rape was just off the wall, forget about him not being “sensitive and proessional,” whatever that might mean.
In fact, you proved the case by pointing out that prostitutes, because of their vulnerability, are more at risk than the “sluts” who dress provocatively. Yes, of course the “slut walk” was aimed at getting rid of old ignorant attitudes towards women’s dress but do you think it has any relevance to the rape rate? Do you think the rapist is watching the slut walk and saying, “Oh dear, so that’s why I’ve been doing all this raping? Must stop now.” Um, I don’t think so. My point that accounting for the rapist’s behaviour must go deeper, down into the roots of his misogyny.
His misogyny – and I believe that it can be found in trace amounts in normal heterosexual males as well – results in large part from his resentment that the female has control over his sexuality, a fundamental part of his being. In effect, she controls him. He is her performing pet. She tells him what to do and when to do it. I’m not talking about any general policies of “controlled reproduction.” I’m talking about current, one-on-one sexual relations. Note the word “current.” The male might have controlled reporoduction in the past, reducing the female to a baby-making machine when many hands were needed to till the fields, but in the present situation the female clearly calls the shots in the sex dance. For the mysogynist, this is intolerable.
The male-hating androphobe, on the other hand, can express her contempt for the pathetic, stupid, coarse, always-available male. This androphobic contempt, of course, serves to further stoke the coals of the misogynist’s burning hatred of the female snd in that sense the dress of the “slut” might have an indirect, but only an indirect, effect on the rape rate.
Nice to hear your thoughts, Troon.
: Donk (10:45PM) – Okay, Donk, stop stroking your chin – I won’t say “and start stroking something else” – and give us your insights. You wouldn’t be a man-hating androphobe by any chance, would you Donk? Are you dismissing my views? Are you showing contempt for me? I feel my misogynist rage beginning to build Donk! (A joke, Donk, a joke. Don’t get excited.)
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Well I stand corrected. Cancel my warning, I didn’t realize it came from out west. Since the weather is different out there surely it won’t affect people here. Who the fuck cares where it came from? I was merely pointing out a fact.
Tommy, the point OC is making is that, dressing provacatively does NOT make you more of a target. That’s an absurd comment, which is why what the cop said is stupid. Rape is not about a man seeing a woman dressed provacatively, rape is about power and control. REGARDLESS of how a woman dresses, they aren’t more of a target one way or the other. There are definitely things you can do to keep safe like never walking alone at night, or always being aware of your surroundings. BUT, not dressing provacatively does not help you not get raped.
Actually, Date Rape does have a lot to do with how you dress and how you carry yourself. So acting slutty and dressing slutty may have an effect on chances of being raped. Keeping hold of your drinks and not getting too trashed is a good idea to stem this for of RAPE.
Sand in your vag much, ShittyD? Donk was amplifying on your fact; not denigrating it. In this case, more information is good, No?
Sweet I have a nickname. I suppose I should have added a tag of Justin Beiber standing under a road sign reading “faggot” to validate my point, huh?
Couldn’t hurt.
“Donk was amplifying on your fact; not denigrating it. In this case, more information is good, No” THANK YOU IVAN! I wasn’t attacking Stephen at all … merely adding some insight.
Uncle Vanya’s got your back, Donkster.
Dear MM,
I really did find it interesting. I’ll keep my insights to myself since you always seem to shoot little people like moi down. Nah, not a man-hating androphobe … although I do like to dress glamorously. Lolzzz
Sincerely,
Donk.
“Actually, Date Rape does have a lot to do with how you dress and how you carry yourself. So acting slutty and dressing slutty may have an effect on chances of being raped.”
A woman could be naked and unconscious. That does not give ANY man the right to rape her. Wouldn’t a civilized response be to aid and protect her?
I’m not saying dressing scantily and losing control through inebriation is a wise choice but it shouldn’t result in rape.
STOP blaming the victim for the act of the rapist!
“A woman could be naked and unconscious. That does not give ANY man the right to rape her. Wouldn’t a civilized response be to aid and protect her?
I’m not saying dressing scantily and losing control through inebriation is a wise choice but it shouldn’t result in rape.
STOP blaming the victim for the act of the rapist!”
That’s not the point. The point is protect yourself. I don’t really care how you’re dressed but being dressed a certain way, drunk, walking alone is, I’m sorry, kinda asking for it. Does it give someone the RIGHT to violate you? Of course not. You think rapists give a shit about people’s rights? These are the scum of society we’re talking about. Pretty sure he’s the one who goes to jail, not you, so I don’t see where anyone is blaming the victim, just urging potential victims to take precautions.
The officer’s comments were ignorant, but like I say, we don’t live in a perfect, politically correct world. Of course a woman can dress however she wants and it shouldn’t be taken as an invitation for rape, but it’s just not a wise idea to behave certain ways in certain situations. This applies to all people, not just women.
And how does anyone know that there’s no relation between how you dress your likelihood of being attacked? Has that been proven? Again, the cop might have been speaking from experience.
Let me ask you this ladies, if it was proven that you were more likely to be attacked because you dress a certain way, would that affect your wardrobe decisions? I doubt it.
I feel like this is being made into something that it isn’t. It’s being made out as another patriarchal oppression of women, when it is about protecting women and urging them to protect themselves. What percentage of rapes do you think could have been prevented had precautions been taken?
My thing is not so much about how you dress, I know you could be wearing a parka and still be attacked, but when drunk, pretty girls want to walk home alone at night in their little downtown outfits I just shake my fucking head. How can you be that stupid? Have one or two less porn star shots and get a cab.
I really don’t think TOO many people in today’s world still blame a woman for being victimized. Maybe some old fuckers.
Either way a slut walk isn’t going to help a damn thing.
As for your response to my comment, OC, I totally agree, thank god for change. But some things will never change, and men being men and women being women is one of them, rightfully so.
If women everywhere started approaching men more often we wouldn’t have such a lopsided situation where it’s almost always up to the man to engage the woman. I dunno about you but I don’t see that happening no matter how many rallies and slut walks take place. Sure progress has been made in recent decades but even the most eligible of bachelors don’t get approached by attractive women very often, if ever. Not so much the other way around.
Way it is and always will be.
“little downtown outfits” *facepalm*
Who said I was blaming the victim? Why can’t a person say that the way you dress will influence the calibre of attention you will get. I’m not saying that if you dress sluttily you will be raped, that’s obviously not true. I do think your appearance and the way you act will influence how someone perceives you.
If you are out for a night on the town, acting slutty trying to get guys to buy you drinks, meet someone, and the bars close, there is a certain type of asshole that thinks because he spent money and time on you that you OWE them something. She obviously doesn’t owe anybody anything, but could her actions put her in a situation that may not have arisen had she acted differently?
I know lots of women that dress “sluttier” (and that’s the term they use) to go out than they ever would to do anything else. They also flaunt themselves to get “free drinks” and then laugh about it the next day. If someone with some “control” problems is the recipient of these actions, could this not “push” him into doing something. Not all women are delicate little flowers, much like all men are not rapists. Bitches like these give you all a bad name and you are justifying their behavior by saying that it has nothing to do with how you act or dress. Well I say it does, not for all cases of course, but for some I’m sure it does.
We are not talking about mentally stable people here, they are rapists, is it possible that what they see is a lot different that what we see.
Not all rapes occur because the victim is flaunting themselves or inebriated. Rapes occur to women and girls of all ages in varying scenarios. Blaming the victim is wrong and perpetuates the myth that “she was asking for it”.
RSVPs
: Donk (Aug. 11, 11:07AM) – No Donk I’m not trying to “shoot you down.” Just having some fun. Please do share your insights with us Donk. This is what this site is all about (I think).
: Oceanchick (11:2AM)- Right on Oceanhick.
: Tommjules.902 (11;12AM) – “That is not the point” (blaming the victim). “The point is to protect yourself.”
But that’s not the point, Tommy. You’re comparing apples and oranges. OC’s point – the apple – is theoretcal. The rape victim, contrary to the view of the Toronto cop, should never be blamed for her own rape. Of course she should “protect herself” and not dress provocatively but does the failure to protect herself make her culpable of the crime of her own rape?
Your point – the orange- is “real world” practical. As you conlude, “That’s the way it is, and always will be.” You’re right, but that does not trump the theoretical point.
: Stephen Harper (1:49PM) – They could use guys like you on the Toronto Police Force.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
MM I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said. The explanation you gave to Tommy at 4:50PM was pretty much the way I was thinking. The first post you made about women dressing provocatively showing their goods etc:
“She flaunts her charms and, indirectly, her superiority to the male. She’s a tease. Often the female is the psychological equivalent to the male misogynist. She is an androphobe, a male-hater.”
That statement really got me thinking. I just wonder why it’s seen as superiority. I guess when I go out I don’t go with the mindset to turn the opposite sex on. Of course one will dress in figure flattering outfits but I don’t go with that mindset. However, has society cornered women into that behaviour? I kind of veered off the rape talk and just thinking why are females seen that way. Is it the way genetics have positioned the sexes or is it all made up? Ahhhh I don’t know. I hope with age I gain some clarity.
RSVPs
MORE ON THE ANDROPHOBE
: Donk (Aug. 11, 5:30PM)
“I just wonder why it’s seen as superiority. I guess when I go out I don’t go with the mindset to turn the opposite sex on. Of course one will dress in figure flattering outfits.”
Hello Donk and thanks for your thoughts. I guess my question would be that if you don’t go out with the mindset of turning the other sex on, then why do you dress in those “figure flattering outfits”? Why do you want your figure flattered? What is the point? It could be just an instance of that old saying, “Vanity, thy name is woman.” So here the answer is simply feminine narcissism.
But in the context of the present thread higher stakes are in play. On the one hand it could just the innocent pleasure of receiving admiring male glances. On the other hand and depending on the psychology of the woman, we might be entering the territory of the androphobe, the male-hating female. She sees her “form fitting outfit” as providing the platform from which she can pour out her contempt on the pathetic male who “took the bait.” The androphobic female, in
my view, is not uncommon in these times in which that despicable creature, the white heterosexual male, is the target of attack from multiple quarters.
Of course, Donk, I know you don’t fall into the last category. But what about the first two?
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
“simply feminine narcissism” I’d say that one and a little bit of the innocent one. I won’t lie, a few glances are nice. That and keeping up with the bunch. My girlfriends are a trendy hoard and to be honest sometimes I just want to put on jeans and a t-shirt but at times feel pressured into dressing a certain way, not look like the frumpy friend. Donk is not exactly Type A and could really care less at times, but like I say there is this weird pressure on females to always look “enticing”.
I really don’t know an androphobe … guess people don’t talk about that much, lol. exist though.
… but I do know people (ladies) who will walk home intoxicated, alone late late at night, no sweat.
So… how does one not be considered and androphobe? Is she not supposed to dress “glamorously”? Is she supposed to accept every advance?
I’ve heard a lot of people opine, including many ladies, that women dress up more for each other than for men. I think there’s some truth to that, I think it goes for men too. It varies between different people.
For example, everyone knows that one douche bag who dresses like Pauly D or somebody, and every guy is like “that guy looks utterly ridiculous” but he seems to have little trouble pulling chicks? And every girl knows a girl who dresses “like a total slut” (their words not mine) and girls all have little to no respect for her? But she gets a lot of male attention?
Then of course there is the guy/girl that has tons of friends but has trouble attracting the opposite sex.
Basically a “man’s man” vs. a “ladies man” and I guess a “woman’s woman” vs. a “man’s woman”.
People are one or the other or a certain mix. I know I myself DO CARE what other guys think. I don’t want to be seen as that guy who doesn’t care how ridiculous he looks, dresses or acts as long as it gets the ladies’ attention. Because I don’t respect guys like that. They are whores. And being respected and having people’s respect (at least from those that I respect), is for whatever reason important to me.
What’s seen as sexy on men vs. on women is where it gets complicated to make comparisons.
MM: I guess that’s why me and OC just keep repeating ourselves. I don’t think our views really contradict each other, they just fit into different aspects of the issue. A woman SHOULD be able to do whatever she wants and never worry about anything, but then again so should all people but that’s just not the way it is.
That, and I think that even if it WERE proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that dressing or acting a certain way did increase a woman’s chances of being attacked a man would still somehow be seen an asshole for pointing that out, because it’s sexist and “blames the victim”. Well sorry, but it (in that scenario) would be the truth. True facts cannot be sexist or biased in any way.
That’s what kinda bugs me about the whole thing.. everybody has to watch their back.. men and women, maybe for different reasons, sucks but that’s the way it is and not much can really be done about it no matter what the perceptions of anybody are.
And Donk, I don’t think women so much WANT attention, it’s just that, and I’ve heard this from more than one young lady, they don’t like when they DON’T get it. It’s like oxygen, you take it for granted and maybe don’t think about it until it’s gone.
And JC on a cracker, I’m reading this bitch again and it’s just ass backwards. OP says nothing about victim blaming or anything, she equates “slut pride” with positive body image? Someone wanna explain that to me? Because usually in my experience girls with positive body image and high self esteem don’t display a lot of behavior that many people might associate with… oh fuck it.. aren’t sluts.
Being an easy fuck IS A BAD THING! It leads to low self esteem and probably bad body image, not to mention raises your chances of potentially fatal and/or life changing diseases. Shit, even the curable ones aren’t too pleasant… or so I’ve been told….
Calling someone a slut just because she fucked a couple guys is wrong though. Matter fact insulting and judging people is wrong period.
RSVPs
STILL MORE ON THE ANDROPHOBE
: Donk (Ag. 12, 11:35AM) – “How is one not to be considered an androphobe?”
Well, Donk, in the absence of any overt behaviour, you are the only one who can tell. Only you are privy to your unexpressed thoughts.
But look at the adjectives which characterize the target of androphobe venom: “white, heterosexual, male.” So, androphobia can come dressed up in racial or lesbian garments. Do your thoughts fit into either category?
Like the misogynist, the androphobe is at war with herself. Assuming she is heterosexual she despises her own natural sexual urges. She despises her own “weakness.” In other words, she turns her hatred of the male back onto herself and then projects it outward to its initial target, the male.
Think of the radical feminist -I’ve met a few at academic conferences, particularly after giving a paper rejecting the concept of a “feminist pedagogy” after rejecting the popular concept of a distinct feminist epistemology upon which any such pedagogy must be erected. One was so enraged at dinner after that a piece of bread came flying out of her mouth across the table as she castigated me for my errors.
The lesbian androphobe, in contrast, has no such difficulty since she can simply shun the male while, when the opportunity arises, proceed to ridicule him for his pathetic, stupid coarseness. But her smouldering hostility is, of course, a constant.
Recall the words of Allan Bloom (“The Closing of the American Mind: How Higher Education Has Failed Democracy and Impoverished the Souls of Today’s Students” 1987) the distinguished American political philosopher” “There’s a lot of angry women out there.” You bet there are Allan,
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
“His misogyny – and I believe that it can be found in trace amounts in normal heterosexual males as well – results in large part from his resentment that the female has control over his sexuality, a fundamental part of his being. In effect, she controls him. He is her performing pet. She tells him what to do and when to do it.”
Good point. I would think that the widespread availability of pornography and other sexually explicit materials might proxy (not completely, obviously) for actual sex. It puts the male in the driver’s seat: wide variety of physical features and contextual settings. I would expect that places where pornography is legal and abundant to have lower rates of sexual assault than places where it’s illegal.
“My thing is not so much about how you dress, I know you could be wearing a parka and still be attacked, but when drunk, pretty girls want to walk home alone at night in their little downtown outfits I just shake my fucking head. How can you be that stupid? Have one or two less porn star shots and get a cab.”
I hate agreeing with this but I do. Humans are impulsive. I’m sure most men react differently to women in skimpy dresses than they do to women in burkas. But the vast majority of us are able to control those impulses to the extent that we would never even think of harming someone. The problem is the 0.1% of men who do not or cannot control their impulses.
Oceanchick: yes, fully clothed women get raped too. No one is disputing that. And no one is disputing that women should be allowed to wear what they want without fear of being raped. But, people to have urges. Worse, some people can’t control them. I guess what some people are saying is that there *may* be a heightened risk to dressing a certain way, because of the impulse-responses they generate. So, you’re more than welcome to dress however you want (skimpier the better IMO), but you have to accept the risk that comes with it and protect yourself because rapists do exist.
It’s a lot like Libertarians who believe that everyone can do anything they want so long as no one harms anyone’s private property. Yet, even the staunchest of Libertarians will take some precautions to protect their property. Women (and men) should do the same: take precautions where precautions are necessary.
RSVPs
: Canned (Aug 12, 1:41PM) – “The problem is the 0.1% of men who cannot control their impulses.”
Enjoyed your thoughts, Canned – I didn’t think that you had any – but be clear: The problem is not with the 0.1% of men who cannot control their sexual impulses. The problem is with the 0.1% of misogynists who cannot control their sadistic, violent, rapist impusles. Make no mistake.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!