Cutting 40+ teachers. Who are young, highly trained, and passionate. Who have gotten their masters, and other advanced training, and trudged through the system for years because they are eager to teach our kids is not the right thing. To then make them appear before you and beg for their jobs knowing full well your minds are already made up is degrading and wrong.

Keeping teachers simply by seniority. Who are paid double, many who are past passion for the job, who are out of date in their ideas and training, who did not retire this year to make room for new teachers because you did not offer them enough incentive (more $) is wrong.

You have less money. Fine. You have less kids. Fine. You have to make cuts. Fine. But do not even pretend that the kids are not going to suffer from this or that the decisions are in their best interests. Cutting the teachers who are fresh and have the most up to date skills for educating kids does not help the kids. It does not even make financial sense. The only people it is protecting are the more senior teachers. Teachers who are not necessarily more skilled, or knowledgeable. Many of whom have been sitting safe and secure so long that they did not update their skill sets, and long ago made it a job and not a passion, who are milking the system as long as they can. This is not to the benefit of the kids, or the tax payers.

If we are going to treat teaching as any other business then judge cuts according to ability and worth as opposed to what essentially equates to age and luck of having entering the system earlier. I can guarantee you that if you talk to every principal each one could tell you exactly who is not worth having and who is. Just because someone happened to enter the system earlier does not mean they should be protected. Keep the up and coming stars and cut the lame ducks. Does this make too much sense? Shame. —Retidder

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81 Comments

  1. “beg for their job” …. that would be an awesome reality show. It’s not as if these teachers didn’t know the system was in trouble. Finally their eyes are open, so face the reality. Go teach ESL or something LOL. As for all those in studying to become teachers, better start looking elsewhere for jobs.

  2. I don’t know what is better:

    a) the school boards prevent new teachers from subbing (and gaining classroom experience) by giving old bag retired pension getters sub jobs, or,

    b) every university looking for easy ca$h is churning out piles of new teachers every year, to an environment that is saying we don’t need them…

  3. i agree with this bitch. the boy had some really crappy teachers that were passionless and not qualified to teach some subjects. they had seniority and even after much complaining from parents, they remained

  4. It’s totally true: they will cut 3 jobs to save 1 person making 3 times as much as the 3 people they are cutting. What a fucked up system out educational ‘system’ is. As Col. Kurtz said….”the horror….”

  5. It’s called a union. It doesn’t make it right, but they are required to follow what is set out in the collective agreement (ie: job security based on seniority).

  6. Since we have much fewer students…Why don’t we get rid of some school boards ?
    Yep lets merge every second school board into one entity as a start. That way we go from 8 plus a french language board to 4 & the french language board !
    Why do we need so many bosses, when there isn’t the student base or soon the same amount of teachers to boss around ? Nor will there be as many facilities to pay for.
    In Japan they cut from the top down
    In Nova Scotia, the mentality seems to be keep the 10 managers, they just all have to take turns bossing the only employee left .

  7. As someone who had all old bags for teachers when I graduated in 05 this really does piss me off big time. Education is supposed to be for students, not so teachers can have jobs. If you open your eyes you can see that this hasn’t been the case in years. Where can I get my hands on whatever these schoolboard POS’s are smoking?

  8. Good luck in getting any concessions from the Teachers Union in Darrells Shangri-La.
    I might need to be corrected, but weren’t there headlines a few years ago saying that a lot of the boomer teachers were going to retire and there was going to be a big demand for replacements?
    I feel sorry for the young, well qualified teachers who are unable to secure permanent positions, I’d be calling 1 800 ALBERTA.
    Fiscally, it does make sense to reduce the amount of schools, if there is a decline in enrollment, also to eliminate teaching positions.

  9. ASSESSING TEACHERS

    “Keeping teachers simply by seniority. Who are paid double, many who are past passion for the job, who are out of date in their ideas and training, who did not return this year to make room for new teachers because you did not offer them enough incentive (more $) is wrong.”
    (“Retidder”)

    There’s just no question about it: “Retidder” is categorical. The old teachers (the “lame ducks”) have no passion for the job, their ideas and training are out of date and, what’s more, they are greedy – they did not retire because they were not offered enough money. By contrast, the up and coming “stars” have passion for the job, their ideas and training are cutting edge and, of course, they are not greedy.

    The obvious retort to all this is: “Really?” Does Retidder have a shred of evidence to support his claims? Since he gives none, his pronouncements must all be the direct, unerring, and intuitive deliverances from some higher but unannounced realm. But it’s not just Retidder’s arrogant and unfounded pronouncements which are off-putting. He offers nothing by way of any alternative. How, in other words, would Retidder go about assessing the teachers?

    It can’t be just on the basis of their being “new” since – I’m sure even Retidder would acknowledge this – new teachers can be just as incompetent as the greedy the veterans. So, Retidder must have other criteria he will soon bring forward. What will they be?

    What about a “passion test,” Retidder? How would you measure the relative intensity of the passion of both the greedy veterans and the new “stars?” What yardstick would you employ? Of course, Retidder doesn’t know. He hasn’t any idea, up-to-date or otherwise.

    How about Retidder’s “up-to-date ideas?” themselves? What, exactly, are these ideas Retidder? Do you have the faintest idea, up-to-date or otherwise? No, I didn’t think so. In the same way, what about that “up-to-date training,” Retidder? What, exactly are these new teaching “skills” of which you speak? Of course, Retidder has no idea about these marvellous up-to-date skills either.

    More than that Retidder, it sounds like your philosophy of education is a bit askew. You seems to think that think teaching is just a matter of technique, of the mechanical application of some sort of up-to-date skills. But here’s an “up-to-date idea” for you Retidder: People who think your way are called “technicists.” They want to reduce teaching which – by the way, Retidder, is an art and not a “technique” – to the principles of some misconceived notion of the assembly line, of profitable business management. These people, Retidder, are the real enemies of education properly understood, that is, the cultivation of a reflective mind. It seems to me, Retidder, that you are in the enemy camp.

    So Retidder, what’s left? Don’t ask the principals who are technicists/managerialists anyway. They see education in qualtative terms like you do, Retidder. Don’t ask the parents, particularly those whose kids bad-mouth their teachers for their poor performance. In any case, Retidder, in spite of whjat many think, parents are not teachers. So who else are we going to ask, Retidder? You?

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  10. CORRECTION:

    Last paragraph: “They see education in QUANTITATIVE terms, just like you do, Retidder.”

  11. I dunnno, I know I’ve had a lot of crap young teachers! My favorite teachers are all old. There is one who is probably late 30s but has been teaching for a while. Experience can be worth more than fresh education sometimes.

  12. Can I ask the point of a Teacher’s Assistant? I read in the paper that children need the extra help and attention? Isn’t that what we called HOME?….WTF?

    Lord fuck, I could go on with this one too much as it really irks my ass.

  13. only a tacher would write a bitch, such as this. i don’t know if they got the memo or not? but no one really cares about shit, anymore, sorry, but that’s the way it goes in today’s world.

  14. Parents aren’t teachers MMan? I’m not a parent but I disagree. Parents are supposed to teach you most of the basic things you need to function in real life. I think they should have more of a say about who gets to teach their kids.

    I think they should grade teachers like they do students and I think that if your pass rate is miserable it’s time to stop blaming the students and take responsibility for the future of our country.
    Our schools can do much better and our kids deserve better.

  15. ASSESSING TEACHERS is right (long winded and hard to read but correct) in that figuring out a way to distinguish between the trolls and the stars is a difficult question. Funny that instead of a solution or option ASSESSING TEACHERS seems to think we keep thing going as they are. all i read was a bitch with no solutions on a bitch about the other bitch not having solutions. I would not be surprised if that was a defensive comment by a ‘senior’ tacher (call back to to two posts ago) 🙂

    So ASSESSING TEACHERS how would you distinguish between the valuable and the useless?– assuming you have worked with other ppl and also assuming you are not in the later category — have you not worked with people who have no business doing what they do?

    Do you disagree that axing obvious stars for known trolls seems wrong? (note: you might not be the troll being referenced)

    It is a fact that ultimately this is the result of an inefficient school board and a strong union.

    If the hiring and firing process was different the initial post would never have been made.

    I would agree with Retidder in that none of this is helping the students, neither of these groups. I would also agree in that anybody asking their employee to essentially beg for their job is demeaning…especially for those who are the stars.

    Do I have the solution? I would have to spend some time to think about that. Would it be accepted? probably not. Is how it works f’d up? hell ya.

  16. the reference is lost on me, unless you are trying to make fun of ppl in wheelchairs and then I have to officially call shame on you.

  17. ASSESSING TEACHERS: (RSVPs)

    : Koda (2:36PM) – “Can I ask the point of Teacher’s Assistants?” You gave the answer yourself: “extra help and attention” is code for “Special Needs Students” which itself is often code for out-of-control students.

    : Life Sucks (2:44PM) – no one really cares about shit, anymore. but that’s the way it goes in today’s world.” The same reply as I gave to Retidder: Really?

    : Tommyjules (3:40PM) – “Parents are supposed to teach you most of the basic things you need to function in real life.” You must distinguish between school and home Tommy. Parents are not subject specialists and formal educators. There is an enormous difference, even if you don’t think so. (Your reference to “real life” resonates wih Suck’s “today’s world.” I guess that’s why you agree with him, Tommy.)

    – “Stop blaming the students and take responsibility for for the future of our country.”
    Read the title of my post again, Tommy. No one is blaming the students. They weren’t a part of my post.

    : lolcats (4:09PM) – Did I say that we should “keep things going as they are?” Try reading the post again, lolcats. Did it sound that way to you?

    – “All I read was a bitch with no solutions and a bitch about the other bitch having no solutions.”
    Read the post again. There was no direct attempt to formulate a way to “distinguish between the valuable and the useless” but there certainly WAS an indirect attempt. Infer it from my criticism of Retidder, lolcats. Start with my assertion to the effect that teaching is “an art.”

    – Is it a fact that it is “the result of an inefficient school board and a strong union?” No.

    – “Do I have the solution? I would have to spend some time to think about that.” You do that lolcats, you do that. Report back when you have your solution.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  18. one of our brethren is wheeliepaul. the commander is w/o shame in this particular instant^^funny video

  19. 1- “Lolcats” isn’t me, though I say “Kthxbai” sometimes.
    2- I agree with Montrealman. I fucking hate myself for saying so, but I agree with him.
    Presuming younger=better is bullshit.
    I’ve had lots of crappy “young” teachers too, so saying “I’ve had old ones that suck” is a canard. And a homard. Tasty, tasty homard.

    My ex-sisters in law are new teachers, and some of the most judgemental and self-inflated people ever, with all the theory and none of the experience of how to really reach a kid who needs it. But they can write an essay and explain a bunch of shit related to the theory of education, so I guess I’m FAIL.

    Huzzah!

  20. I definitely agree that younger doesn’t equal better, but the school board stance is that older/more tenured = better. Both notions are utterly ridiculous, I’m sure we can all agree.
    I think you can tell if a teacher is reaching (read teaching) her students effectively after spending a few minutes in the classroom, certainly after a full day.

    Anyone with eyes could tell that my grade 11 math teacher didn’t give two shits about reaching her students, you’d look around the class and there wasn’t one student who didn’t look completely dumbfounded. You could almost see the mental clock in her head counting down the seconds to retirement. She made no sense and was all over the chalkboard, and got defensive when you would ask questions. One day I walked out of her class and never went back.

    Here’s another example of the system putting a teacher’s career before our children’s educations:

    When I first took math 11, it was and maybe still is considered the toughest high school math course of all of them, because of the amount of material. Students reported that it was harder than Math 11 advanced, Math 12 and even Math 12 advanced. Stay with me here.

    I had maybe the best teacher I’ve ever had for that course. She wasn’t young. She was probably in her 50s or late 40s. She had such passion and knew how to talk to people (not at people). Her goal was to make sure EVERY ONE OF HER PUPILS understood what she was teaching. She wasn’t a pushover either, she demanded respect, but she earned it too.

    So about half way to 3 quarters through this course, (keep in mind it’s the hardest math course there is, at least on of them) they bring in a student teacher to teach the class. This guy was just the worst. He had trouble looking people in the eye, couldn’t teach basic concepts and get even the most basic of points across to save his life. Didn’t seem like he particularly cared for young people or speaking in front of a class. In my opinion he should not have picked teaching as a career.

    Student’s marks fell drastically across the board, including my own, we’re talking 10 or 20, sometimes 30 percentage points. I failed the course. My mark went from a high 70s to a fail if I remember correctly. I wasn’t a great student but I’m a smart guy and I’m actually pretty good at math. This was the only course I ever failed, besides that bird course PAL because I couldn’t be bothered to do the extra curricular stuff. This was the only “real” class I ever failed.

    Our real teacher didn’t want him teaching this course. Especially since we were over half way through it and were doing great. She went to the principal and there was nothing anyone could or was willing to do about it.

    Therefore I had to take math 11 again and this time I was stuck with that old bag I complained about earlier in this post.

    This enraged me and if you care about your kid’s education (or if your not a parent, the future of our country) it should enrage you too. They let a good group of kids fail or barely scrape by (in which case their overall average suffered terribly, limiting their options as far as post secondary education) a course, just so this putz could get some practice hours in.

    OK I get that he’s not going to be a great teacher overnight, but why not let him teach a less difficult course? Why jeopardize a whole class of kids FUCKING FUTURES? I believe it may have been 2 math 11 classes that he was teaching, same results.

    The school board doesn’t give a shit about education, they care about money.

    Fuck that still burns me when I think about it. I never did get a math 11 credit, opting instead for Math 12 foundations. Good thing I didn’t want to go to university. As far as I’m concerned, had that guy not been forced upon us, I’d have a math 11 credit and a higher overall high school average. Does this make ANY sense to ANYONE?

  21. i should add that the boy had some shitty young teachers too. his advanced french immersion teacher in grade eleven could barely speak the language

  22. don’t get me started on french immersion, PG, perfect example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. Under no circumstances should an English speaking person try to teach another English speaking person French. The French these kids learn sounds like shit. They’d be better to spend 3 or 4 months in Quebec.
    They might as well stop teaching french in our schools cuz no one ever learns anything in that class.

  23. the immersion teachers in elementary school were all french acadians. my son is bi-lingual and so is my pa. he had to learn because he worked for the feds, so he speaks polite government french^^if nothing else it was good for the boy’s brain but so was violin and math

  24. I think the solution isn’t to just get rid of 40 teachers — it’s attrition and a mandatory retirement age.

    And blaming universities is bullshit. Students who choose to take a BEd should be doing their research and going in well aware that there probably won’t be a job for them when they graduate. Take some personal fucking responsibility ffs.

  25. I don’t have a problem with expecting our younger generation to read the writing on the walls and not enroll in b.ed programs, but c’mon, its just a revenue generator for the Mount et al, surely they have some sense of decency?

  26. I don’t know why we have so many school boards our province isn’t that big, wasn’t the HRM school board fired or suspended a few years ago and run by one guy? Top heavy money wasting

  27. ASSESSING TEACHERS (RSVPs II)

    A brief review:

    lolcat (4:09PM) commented, “All I read was a bitch with no solutions and a bitch about the other’s bitch having no solutions.”

    Here are some “solutions,” lolcat. After a Bachelor’s Degree in the appropriate discipline – not all disciplines are “appropriate” – a formal examination session in the following areas:

    Session I: An extended (2-3 hour) written examination asking the following questions:

    1. What do you understand by the word
    “education?”
    2. What do you understand by the word “teaching?”
    3. What do you understand by the word “learning?”
    4. Why do you love your subject?
    5. What is your philosophy of education?

    Session II: An oral interview to discuss the answers given in Session I. In addition to formal academic answers, the personality of the teacher will also be assessed. Does he have a passion for teaching? His subject? His students? What are his ideals?

    Session III: A two-year probationary period to obtain a temporary permit. (Regular observation by veteran teachers.) Periodic observation to follow for five years to obtain a permanent teaching certificate (also to be reviewed periodically).

    : Tommyjules (5:53PM) – “I’m sure we can all agree. I think you can tell if a teacher is reaching (read teaching) her students effectively after spending a few moments in the classroom, certainly after a full day.”

    Sorry, Tommy, we can’t all agree. There are too many variables which we won’t go into here. Well, Tommy, maybe YOU can make the determination but for the rest of us, not so much. (I think the school boards could use someone like you, Tommy. Why not give them a ring?)

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  28. Nicely put ,smile&wave, the job can be done by a couple of decent secretaries & 1 administrator with an assistant.
    But you can’t support all the cronies of the Good Ole Boy’s Club of Nova Scotia doing something like that ! ! ! ! !

  29. I dunno, I’m usually pro union, BUT, one downfall is certainly the issue that apathy can creep in the higher up someone gets on the seniority chain and when the cuts come around, the best people aren’t always left.

    It’s a double edge’d sword, really.

    I still think attrition and mandatory retirement ages are the key. Especially from a PR standpoint. Attrition lessens the ‘perception’ that people are losing their jobs (because they really aren’t — they’re just not being replaced — loss of the job, not the employee).

    And more ability on the boards to get rid of teachers with poor evaluations. And I think student feedback should be taken into account too.

  30. wheeliep and MM:- I think if you reread the posts you will find the assertion was not that younger is necessarily better, but that to assume the opposite is also not true. I think the points being made by lolcats and the original poster were more to the effect that bad is bad, get rid of the bad and take in the good..not take in new bad…how you measure that, be it art or passion, is as arbitrary as seniority. I use ambiguous terms here as it strikes me that MM is not fully reading posts but focusing on ambiguity he finds in them instead of the general ideas. I also think lolcats was right in implying that for the most part you seem to have been trolling in your first comment

  31. I agree with the OP on one point: the teachers should not have had to demean themselves to beg (in vain, as it turns out) to keep their positions with the school board. If there was an oversupply of teachers before, such an exercise will surely bring that to an end, and the school board will be pegged as arbitrarily unprofessional and as immature as some students in their selection process. It would have been better simply to cut the positions, citing lack of seniority as the reason, and be done with it.

    As sad as the loss of a job can be, it is the reality of education in an environment that no longer respects institutional learning. Schools, particularly at the secondary level, are becoming more and more mere instruments of social control in which learning is stymied on all sides. The “good students” are doing most of their learning away from the classroom, through either independent study and research or via experiences in the real world; these are the kids who want to do well, and should be the ones the schools focus on.

  32. there really isn’t teachers anymore, just high paid baby sitters. and if you look at some of the shit that goes on in said schools, you will note that they aren’t paid enough.

  33. ASSESSING TEACHERS (RSVPs III)

    : Pretty Kitty (May 6, 8:40PM) – The claim that one big downfall of the union is “certainly” the issue that apathy can creep in the higher up one goes in the seniority chain is incoherent. There is no connection between the two points, the union on the one hand and apathy on the other.

    :afsad (9:08PM) – Advises me to reread Retidder’s bitch and I will find that his assertion was not that the younger teachers are better. I think you should reread the bitch again yourself afsad. In particular, reread Retidder’ second paragraph which I quoted in my initial post. What does that tell you, afsad?

    – Your claim that how you assess teachers, be it art or passion, “is as arbitrary as seniority.” Afsad, why not reread the first part of my last post, the one dealing with, um, teacher assessment. Of course, you give not a shred of evidence in support of your claim which, as a consequence, is little better than verbal flatulence.

    – You claim that I “seem to have been trolling in your first comment.” Sorry afsad, but as it happens you are just wrong. I know, of course, that doesn’t influence you in the least. Do you have any grounds for making the assertion about my “trolling”or was it just off the top of your head like the rest of them?

    : HalKell (11:52PM) – Schools, according to HalKell, are just “instruments of social control in which learning is stymied on all sides.” This does get boring but I have to ask HalKell if he has a shred of evidence in support of his claim? No, I didn’t think so.

    – The “good students” according to HalKell “are doing most of their learning away from classrooms, through either independent study and research or via experience with the real world.”
    Here we go again. As with afsad, do you have a shred of evidence to support that claim HalKell or, like the others, it it just off the top of your head? No, I didn’t think so.

    – HalKell speaks of the “real world.” He doesn’t realize that the world of education by which we become truly human IS the “real world.” One wonders how many times we will have to hear this “real world” argument. Many more times, one supposes.

    : Life Sucks (May 7, 7:25AM) – Read your post again Sucks. It is incoherent. It makes no sense.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  34. “: Pretty Kitty (May 6, 8:40PM) – The claim that one big downfall of the union is “certainly” the issue that apathy can creep in the higher up one goes in the seniority chain is incoherent. There is no connection between the two points, the union on the one hand and apathy on the other.”

    I disagree. WHY is there no connection? I’m interested in hearing your points.

  35. The same people making these arguments are the same ones that belong to a UNION.
    The government is not making the decision about who is getting canned. The school boards are also not making those decisions. You are in a union, which means you have a collective bargaining agreement with the school board, which means your union has bargained for these terms of employment.
    Quit your complaining. You chose to invest $40K+ in yourself. You should have done more research before doing so. There are no jobs and education students have been told that for years.
    You wouldn’t throw $40K on an investment in the stock market without doing your share of research, so why did you choose to spend all this time and money on an education that obviously isn’t giving you the payback you had hoped for (not that you were told you were going to get).

  36. ASSESSING TEACHERS (RSVPs IV)

    : Pretty Kitty (10:51AM) – disagrees with my claim that her assertion to the effect that the higher up one goes in the seniority chain as a result of the teachers’ union contract the greater the incidence of apathy in its members, is incoherent.

    Try this:

    1. A greater incidence of heart attacks among older teachers has been noted.
    2. These teachers are union members.
    3. Therefore, the union is the cause of a greater incidence of heart attacks among older teachers.

    But chain of reasoning is incoherent. There is no causal connection between union membership and the increased incidence of heart attacks. In the same way, there is no causal connection between union membership and apathy among older teachers.

    : WTF (11:53AM) writes “The same people making these arguments are the same ones that belong to a UNION.”

    But WTF is simply wrong. The people making the arguments (i.e. Retidder) do not belong to a teachers’ union until they have signed a contract with a school board and are working classroom teachers.

    (One wonders why WTF has capitalized the word “UNION.” Is he a union-hater? If so, why? Does WTF have reasons for his position?)

    Next.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  37. They were not FORCED to plead for their jobs at the school board meeting. This is an ancient right in the Education Act and the NSTU convinced the 44 teachers to exercise that right and waste too many hours at a board meeting. Other school board employees have no such right and this section of the legislation should be abolished.
    The NSTU never complains or offers sympathy when non-teaching staff are laid off. These are the first teacher layoffs in Metro in more than 30 years and perhaps longer. In previous budgets other staff were laid off almost every year to save the jobs of over-paid and over-pensioned members of the NSTU.
    The chickens finally came home to roost.

  38. ASSESSING TEACHERS: (RSVPs V)

    There are several forms of incoherence, from faulty logical reasoning (see my previous post) to that which possesses no reasoning at all. “joeblow’s” (May 7, 4:20PM) post is of the second sort. Ther absence of any sort of rational thought makes it necessary to look at his post piecemeal.

    : In reference to the laid off teachers, he writes: “They were not FORCED to plead for their jobs at the school board meeting.” Who said that they were joe? What are you talking about?

    : In reference to the laid-off teachers pleading for their jobs, joe writes: “This is an ancient right in the Education Act and the NSTU convinced the 44 teachers to exercise that right and waste too many hours at a board meeting.” What is this “ancient right” you are talking about, joe? To what article of the Education Act do you refer? Give the number. While the NSTU might have recommended that the teachers plead for their jobs, it never needed to “convince” them. Do you have any evidence to support this claim, joe? Further, why would the NSTU need to “convince” the teachers to plead their case? So as “not” – I assume joe means “not” – “to waste too many hours at a board meeting?” Would that be the reason, joe? Does that make any sense to you at all?
    It doesn’t make any sense to me either, joe.

    : “Other school board employees have no such right and this section of the legislation should be abolished.” There’s a very simple reason they don’t have that right joe. They don’t belong to the teachers’ union. You’ve got to try and understand that, joe. Other school board employees and teachers are – are you sitting down, joe? -are NOT THE SAME THING.

    : The NSTU “never complains or offers sympathy when non-teaching staff are laid off.” I don’t know about the “sympathy” part joe (and neither do you) but the reason they don’t complain is the same as the one given above: non-teaching staff are not part of the teachers’ union. Struggle to understand that one, joe.

    : Other non-teaching staff “were laid off almost every year to save the jobs of over-paid and over-pensioned members of the NSTU.” That’s called “faulty-logic incoherence,” joe. Those non-teachig staff were not laid off to save the jobs of the members of the NSTU. There’s no connection, joe. The non-teaching staff were laid off because there was – wait for this joe – a surplus of non-teaching staff. The budgets of the non-teaching staff and the teachers – wait for this one too, joe – are separate. And why are the teachers “over-paid and over-pensioned,” joe. On what basis do you make that assertion joe? Come on, joe, tell us what the teachers SHOULD be getting for their pay and their pensions. And don’t forget to support your assertions, joe.

    I think I can guess why joe is upset about the teachers’ pay and pensions. He was a member of the non-teaching staff and was laid off. Am I right about this, joe?

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  39. Just to make sure things are clear, these were union members who were laid off.

    montrealman – makes some valid points but I wish he would not water them down by attacking another point on the grounds it is to ambiguous or lacking citation. Sure they did not cite article 21 of the collective agreement, or something to that effect ,but that does not negate the point they are making. A better rebuttal, if you want to go that route, would be for you to back up why they are wrong with a relevant citation. I get the impression you post here a lot, but it comes of slightly hypocritical and weak to tear an argument down for lack of citation, or ambiguity and then to use it yourself.

  40. ASSESSING TEACHERS (RVPs VI)

    Compared to “Rt” (10:14AM) “joeblow” is looking pretty good. I hadn’t realized that there was a still lower level of incoherence based on the absence of rational thought than joe’s post but now I know better. But my main question is how I got from making “some valid points” to being “hypocritical and weak.”

    Just “to make things clear” Rt wants us to know that the teachers who were laid off were union members. Yes, Rt I knew that, but I’m mot sure about you. Actually there are three groups in play: (1) “Retidder’s” graduating student teachers who can’t find jobs; (2) joeblow’s union teachers who were laid off, and (3) joeblow’s non-teaching staff who, naturally, were not union members. Got that, Rt? I wonder.

    Rt states that I make some valid points “but not water them down by attacking another point on the grounds that it is ambiguous and lacking citation.” For the record, Rt, it was joeblow and not me who raised the issue of citation in the Education Act, not me. Since he raised the point Rt, I just asked for the citation in the Act. That is not ambiguous, Rt. It is a straight question. Further, how is this “watering my valid points down?” Can you explain that to me Rt?

    – Rt writes that “lack of citation does not negate the point they are making.” But just what is that point, Rt? And who are “they?” Are you referring to joeblow? Then why use “they?” I’m in the dark reading your stuff Rt, and that’s because you are.

    -A “better rebuttal” according to Rt would be for me “to look up why this is wrong with a relevant citation?” In spite of the fact that, according to Rt, if their (joeblow’s?) lack of a citation does not negate the point they are making, why should the lack of a citation negate the point I am making? And, Rt, what IS wrong anyway? Do you have any idea? Again, what IS the point they (joeblow?) are making? What are you trying (but failing) to say? Rt, you are a very confused bunny.

    – Rt wants us to know that he “has the impression that I post quite often” on this site. Gee, Rt, I have that “impression” too. But what Rt is really saying here folks is that it isn’t my posting that is the noteworthy point. It is Rt’s egocentric “impression” that I am. You see, what’s important here is what’s going on inside Rt’s head.

    – Rt offers his final confusion. It seems that I’m “slightly hypocritical and weak to tear an argument down for lack of a citation, or ambiguity and use it yourself.” First, I didn’t tear joeblow’s argument down for lack of a citation, Rt. Read my post again to yourself. (Try not to move your lips.) Do you see other points I made, Rt? Now, explain to me, Rt, how I used joeblow’s lack of a citation or ambiguity myself? Come on, Rt, explain that assertion. Stand and deliver, boy. Can’t do it? Didn’t think so, Rt.

    : To “The Parasite” (aka Hugo Phurst) – How would you know?

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  41. MM- I like how you ask and answer your own questions when you seemingly are offended/annoyed/ just in a huff. 🙂

    Really i think this bitch is dead. It was a bitch, not a thesis to be defended. I will support this assertion with the location of the section it was found in…see title and urban dictionary definition of bitching.

    Regardless of all the squabbling that it initiated it sucks that anybody has to be fired, it sucks that the process was what it was, and it sucks that there is not a better system in place.

    For the sake of MM: yes I know why they have been let go. do you? probably not. yes i know the process they went through. do you? no. do I know the system. yes. do you? maybe the gist. did i just ask and answer my own questions? yes 🙂 did i quantify sucking? no…. do 99% of bitch readers need a bitch containing paragraphs of detailed supporting material? I would suggest, no. How can I say this? because i know 99% of readers of course 😉

    I think ppl might have taken your comments and their frequency as possible trolling is the fact you seem to enter into dialog in a perceived adversarial, and possibly pompous manner. how can i say that? jedi kills. MM chill out a little and slow down your hunt for bitches to tear apart, it clogs up this crap up 🙂 does it? yes. who am i to say this? see previous answer. This best part of these comments was the video of the kittens being bashed together.

  42. ewokwha: you ain’t said nuthin’ that hasn’t been said before.

    Trying to get those points across with MM is like banging your head against a concrete wall over and over again.

    Just ignore ‘im, dude. I generally do! 😛

  43. ASSESSING TEACHERS: (RSVPs VII)

    : RichieCanuk (2:20PM) – Sure have, dum dum.

    : ewokwha (2:21PM) – I’m glad you like how I ask and answer my own questions ewokwha. Somebody’s got to give the answers. But no, I’m not offended, annoyed or in a huff, ewokwha. A little bored, as a matter of fact. See why in the next paragraph.

    – Since I was replying to “Retidder,” “joeblow” and “Rt,” ewokwha, your song and dance about your knowledge about why the teachers were laid off and your deep knowledge of the workings of the union was totally irrelevant to the topic. You do understand that, don’t you ewokwha? Read the previous sentence over slowly to yourself, ewokwha, and try not to move your lips.

    – However, I did like your conclusion to the effect that I should chill out and slow down my hunt for bitches to tear apart, ewokwha. Particularly the last part when you wrote, “it clogs up this crap up.” Very eloquent, ewokwha, very eloquent.

    Don’t write back, ewokwha. Take your own advice and chill out.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  44. yeah good work MM, applause I read in awe…i am so glad you have the time to proof read and write really long winded responses, these chumps are just amateur. I especially like how you put who everyone your refined wit…troll…ha, just jealous me thinks. I agree with everything you say, especially the stuff that makes your arguments sound more intelligent and tends to make fun of other posts…that is the best part of debating these bitches right? don’t hate a hater
    hurrah

  45. I hope you can ignore my spelling and grammar and what not seeing as we will be buddies 🙂

  46. ASSESSING TEACHERS: (RSVP VIII)

    Oh dear, there’s more but without any increment in knowledge. Let’s start with “Pretty Kitty.”

    She writes to Rt, “just ignore ‘im, dude. I generally do.” Well, Pretty Kitty, you don’t. Scroll back. I previously explained how you went down the the “logical reasoning hole” – the heart attacks and the old union teachers and all that – but I guess it never registered. Shame on you, Pretty Kitty.

    : hurrah (5:22PM) – Your post was incomprehensible. Start composing again.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  47. Sméagol – How would I not know?

    To create a good philosophy you should renounce metaphysics but be a good mathematician. – Bertrand Russell

  48. I generally do, MM. Sometimes something you write catches my eye, but for the most part I skim or gloss over the long posts on here, unless they come from certain posters. *shrug*

    I’m not on here for anything but fun and sometimes certain posts by certain people are just buzz kills 🙁

  49. ASSESSING TEACHERS (RSVPs VII)

    : “The Parasite” (aka Hugo Phurst) (May 8, 8:04PM)

    Any reference (title and page) for the Russell quote? No, I didn’t think so. That’s called misrepresentation. You should be sued.

    : Pretty Kitty (May 9, 7:05AM)

    So you ignore long posts except for “certain posters.” Hmm, let me guess. That wouldn’t be Tommy by any chance, would it? It’s pretty obvious.

    I’m on this site for fun as well. It’s just that it seems that we define “fun” differently. For me, fun needn’t be mindless. Oh yes, in addition I always – yes, always – reply to criticism.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  50. Hahahahaha….

    Lolz, smeghead – when have you ever posted ‘title and page’?
    At least I get my quotes right.

    Misrepresentation? How so?

    clamor lacrimis mihi fluvium baby paupercula

  51. It seems, MM, I haven’t quite recovered from my “academia burn out”… I was in a very competitive academic program for a number of years and, well, burnt out. I used to be as passionate as you when it came to arguing such things and I just haven’t gotten that spark back. I’m sure it’ll come back one day. I can argue the shit out of anything, but, I just haven’t had that little exciting feeling I used to get in the pit of my stomach while having a great debate with one of my many brilliant profs and peers…. I just don’t have it in me right now.

  52. mm – to quote the bitch “To then make them appear before you and beg for their jobs knowing full well your minds are already made up is degrading and wrong.”

    and

    CBC reported the Education Act allowed an appearance before the board. I accepted that rather than consult the Act.
    The board also allows presentations if a person asks to speak and complies with the deadline for requests to speak.

  53. mm – read and comprehend clause 34 of the Education Act

    :http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/educ…

    As for your other scribblings I am happy to inform you that in the past I had extensive discussions re school board budgets and the employment implications of budget decisions. If you care to read the most recent information emanating from the department you may discern why teaching staff layoffs are on the table. Read carefully.

  54. I’m going to call all of you violins as you are so being played.

    I give MM credit, as he sure knows how to push your buttons.

  55. ASSESSING TEACHERS (RSVPs X)

    A correction: My last post should have been numbered IX instead of VII. Make the correction with indelible ink on your computer screens now.

    :Pretty Kitty (10:06AM) – I was sadened to learn about your “academia burn out.” You are missing a lot of fun not spanking the cognitively-challenged Redneck Strutters. Maybe Tommy can
    re-ignite the spark. Put a couple moves on him at the next summit.

    :Orgasmatron (10:43AM) – You should have gone with the “big long anecdote” about a teacher you once had.

    : joeblow (12:37PM) – Retidder’s bitch was all about age and the contrast betweem the young stars and the old duds.

    – Any teacher can appeal what he deems to be an “unfair dismissal” by means of a presentation before the Board. That was never the question. It is not the same thing, however, as “begging for their jobs.”

    – You might have noted that my “scribblings” were about TEACHER ASSESSMENT and not budget cuts which you seem to suppose was my focus. joeblow, you’ve got try try and focus your mind. Read my previous sentence to yourself, take note of the capital letters, and try not to move your lips.

    :Mathew Luthor (1:39PM) – Violins don’t have buttons.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  56. ASSESSING TEACHERS (RSVPs XI)

    : Mathew Luthor (May 9, 5:02PM)

    How did we get from TEACHER ASSESSMENT to violin buttons?

    Anyway, it was news to me. Learn something every day. However, the picture is unclear about the button’s position on the violin – top, bottom, sides? – as well as its function. What does it do? Finally, does one push it, pull it, pluck it or suck it? Maybe one just strokes it. Do you stroke your violin button, Mathew? Write back with details.

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

  57. Yeah, ML, tell us how you stroke your violin button 😉

    Oh MM, I’ll get the spark back… some day. *lesigh*

  58. Morning all.
    Actuall PK, it was smeghead that made the association between violins and buttons, from two statements by ML. Violins was in one sentence, buttons in the other. So unless ML was using a mixed-metaphor…, but then again, I never really expect much from annie, especially comprehension.

    BTW – have you noticed that montremoleman, never answers a direct question?

  59. Oh PK, I don’t have a button to share, but you can have my bow…

    When I was in India, I bought a violin that was handmade by a “magicman” from half a coconut, paper, a whittled stick and picture hanging wire.

    I have pixs of me playing it in front of a beautiful 19th century hotel in Mysore.

  60. “Oh PK, I don’t have a button to share, but you can have my bow…”

    That better be a metaphor, mister! Because colour me disappointed if it’s not! *wink* *wink*

  61. lol – Ivan 😉
    I can’t think of annie as being that good lookng, more like this =)
    http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2009/…

    hurrah – “Your post was incomprehensible” – No it wasn’t, I understand it perfectly 🙂
    You’ll have to remember that montremoleman has limited reading and comprehension skills.

    ML – pics required 😛

  62. : Bjmcsc (May 28: 12:40AM) – Do unions really suck, Bj? How do you know? Can you give one, that’s ONE good reason? No, Bj, I didn’t think so. Solidarity forever, Bj, except, of course, for scabs like you,

    A pleasure as always.

    Cheerio!

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