I’ve had enough of all these right wing, born again, jesus-loves-me-more-than-you-na-na-na-na-boo-boo types. Face it: we live in an open, liberal country where we are not guided by a book only a portion of the population takes as anything more than a work of fiction, and where everyone, regardless of race, religion, or opion are equal. go ahead and have your opinions- but argue them constructively, and be open enough to admit that others may have different, yet equally valid ones. no matter how you campaign and brow beat and try, we will never return to ‘the good old days’ when white christian men ran the country and everyone else didn’t have a say. have your opinion- we’re all entitled to one, even you. but allow others to have one as well.
This article appears in Jul 3-9, 2008.
I think his jokes were really about Western organized religion, but he oversimplified because he knows the general public doesn’t know the difference between sincere, mystical, contemplative, transcendent spirituality and hokey Western Christian once-a-week-and-on-holidays idol worship.
Totally agreed. Hmmm I’ll just copy and paste my post from another thread:”So-called Christians rarely seem to understand that Jesus was a total live-and-let-live hippie type. That is exactly why he was so persecuted by the conservative majority (the same segment of society who now use his name to bash the very people he tried to protect.) For the record, I do believe there was a charismatic leader named Jesus (or Jesua or whatever the Aramaic name would have been). I don’t believe he was the son of the ghost-in-the-sky-god Yahweh.”
I’m with you, Jammie. If Jesus were around today (and how do we know he’s not), people like Bill O’Reilly,Ann Coulter, Stockwell Day, and any other run of the mill judgemental “jesus loves me more than you” fucktard would be persecuting his ass like he was a cross-dressing Taliban sympathizer, and crucifying the living SHIT out of him.
I’m with you, Jammie. If Jesus were around today (and how do we know he’s not), people like Bill O’Reilly,Ann Coulter, Stockwell Day, and any other run of the mill judgemental “jesus loves me more than you” fucktard would be persecuting his ass like he was a cross-dressing Taliban sympathizer, and crucifying the living SHIT out of him.
What I find most annoying about listening to these groups is that they have a very basic and limited understanding of the Christian theology. Most born agains come to faith at a time in their life when they are looking for answers (and forgiveness) and evangelical churches are very good at catering to these individuals’ needs. The unfortunate part is that most of these churches are good at teaching a very simple message that gets people “saved” but do little to teach the finer points of the theology and teach their parishoners how to live their lives exuding the same love and forgiveness they so eagerly embraced when they were saved.Instead these churches tend to teach that the “world” is in a fallen state which sets up an “us” (the saved) versus “them” (the unsaved) mentality, often giving the “saved” a sense of superiority because they are now on the winning team. I would like to point out that this qualifies as the sin of Pride, which is the one Lucifer himself was guilty of. Anyway, it just upsets me that the biggest and loudest voices from the Christian community these days seems to be those spewing twisted and hacked up theology. When you identify yourself with a particular religion, you become an ambassador for that belief system, so try and not be a hypocrite, you just ruin it for everyone else. I think religion is an important part of human cultures and serves many positive functions. Unfortunately, like any human intstitution, there are going to be people who abuse their power and influence to serve selfish human desires.
Yeah! And what is it with the evangelical hair-do anyway? Do they all get the same wig when they convert? Um HELLO! Ken called, he wants his plastic helmet back!
The late great George Carlin said it best:http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
George Carlin is funny, but he is not a theologian. He intentionally misrepresents church dogma or focuses on the folly of the church to make jokes, which, again, are very funny. But his reasoning on why religion is wrong is no more convincing than the “born again’s” reasoning why religion is right. I think Carlin was a great comedian, probably a decent human being and rightly called bullshit on all hypocracy certain religious people put out there. But I don’t think I would hold him as an authority on religion or alter any of my spiritual beliefs on his jokes.
What gets me about “Christians” is, to be Christian one makes a Christ-like attempt at life. “To be like Christ” is what Christian really means. Yet we all look outside of ourselves for a ‘savior’. The second coming of Christ is through us! Stop looking skyward for Him and start looking inward! ‘Seek and ye shall find’.
People have to realize that in Canada we have freedom of religon. Any relgion and any belief. If Christians feel they must go door to door or people to people to sell their belief then fine, but I can also choose not to accept you.
I got to go along with OP. What can you say about groups of people who glorify the fact that another group of people nailed a poor guy to a cross because he said it would be cool if everyone was nice to each other. I suspect we need more spirituality and less religion.As to being “born again” the first time was traumatic enough for me.
Religion was created by man to control (and fleece) man and, IMHO, evil. The Bible is a fucking fairy tale and anyone who believes that shit is feeble-minded. Goerge Carlin had it right on the money.
See, it’s comments like that that get my goat. TTFN, are you really saying that the almost 5 billion people who associate themselves with some form of religion are feeble minded? That is a terrible insult to any religious community and to humanity at large. Athiests are just as likely to be “feeble minded” and manipulated by humans trying to take advantage of other humans. Religion does not have a monopoly on manipulation. Turn on your TV and take a look at how the secular world is using the same manipulation techniqes as religion to influence your thoughts and actions. It’s just people being people, you don’t need the fairy tale to make humans into sheep.
OhmyGawd, who has the time to list all the reasons why religion is a steaming pile of excrement? All the wars it has caused? All the supression of women’s rights? All the indulgences that were paid to forgive sins? All the women who bore children because they were forbidden to use birth control? All the big glorious cathedrals in villages with impoverished shacks? All the women today walking around in burkas and deferring to their all powerful spouses who can kill them on the whim? All the polygymist wives who are controlled by a bunch of righteous assholes? Don’t even get me started, pal. People turn to religion because it’s easier to cope with the idea of heaven or hell than it is to manage the idea of nothingness after we die. And, by the way, I am not an atheist – I believe there is something much bigger than we are but there isn’t a religion in the world that can explain it. So piss off.
TTFN I believe the original poster was referring to Christianity but seeing how you brought up other worldly religions…the taliban is gone from Afganistan and the women are still wearing hijab and burkas as for the power to men what were the women doing in the early part of this century in canada and usa when their property was signed over to men upon marriage?! Why do women still take their husband’s name when they marry in this country? In the bible itself : St Paul says “the man is the head of the house as Christ is the church” St. Paul also recommened that men remain celebate to be closer to Christ also a Christian woman according to St. Paul who doesn’t pray should shave her head if not cover it. So TTFN did you shave your head yet, Canada is considered a Christian country. Secondly Why not attack the nuns for wearing habbit? Why just attack Muslim women??
Also TTFN I think that not accepting religion gives one a chance to go through life following their own rules. man made rules aren’t going to be around for you in the end. You can’t even deny that Canada was founded on Christian values. I think you are a lost soul.
TTFN, Sorry to piss you off. I should know better than to bring up such a touchy topic in a public forum. I apologize to everyone, I just got a little carried away with all the big unresolvable issues being tackled on here lately. I’ll bow out of this and gladly go back to my policy of not discussing religion. But, TTFN, if you reread my post I hope you will see that I don’t disagree with you about religion, I just (respectfully) disagree with the notion that “anyone who believes that shit is feeble-minded”. Some of history’s most enlightened and progressive human beings were influenced by a variety of world faiths. Now, as requested, I shall humbly piss off.
Ummmmm TTFN? When you figure out exactly what it is Gingy is trying to say to you, would you mind translating for me please? It’s beyond comprehension for me…
Religion is the opiate of the masses… (I forget who said this first, but needless to say… it wasn’t me)
It was Karl Marx. Look how great people turn out when you get rid of religion in communist societies like Soviet Russia and China. Yup, no human rights violations or wars there. Just people being nice to each other.
Miles, I thought if anyone knew that one right off it would be you… But while we can certainly blame a lot of the problems of the world ON religion,,, is it fair to blame the failure of Communism on the LACK of religion..??
Absolutley not Floyd, and that is my point. You can always count on people to behave like people. Some good, some bad. Religion and politics suffer equally from human ambition. I think the failure of communism is that it requires an entire group of human beings to be moral, just and fair. If that is not a system that invites someone with selfish ambition to exploit it, I don’t know what is.
Agreed… But I think somehow that religion suffers a worse abuse of power than even politics,,, if only for the atrocities that have occurred throughout history in the NAME of religion…
I agree Floyd – religion zones in on and fully exploits people’s most fundamental fears.
Agreed Floyd. Politics has also evolved to safeguard against power abusers through electoral systems and limits on terms in office and power to overturn governments. Most modern political systems are bottom-up structures where the masses dictate policy through representation (ideally anyway :P). The representaives work for the people, not the leader. Religions are steeped in traditions from times when monarchs and emperors ruled in a top-down manner. For example, popes make decisions that are then distributed throught to the masses using the bishops/priests (etc) as representatives of the church head, not the body. It doesn’t take an evil genius to figure out how to abuse a system like that, especially when you can invoke the will of the divine to further add to your authority.
Yes and its not just Christianity either…Its been asserted by people a lot smarter than me, that Islam is undergoing a worldwide expansion, not the likes of which has been seen since the Crusades…I don’t think that fundamentally any of the western religions are better or worse than any other,,, but you look at some of tactics that are used to forward the interests of those behind the power of Islam today, its damn frightening…
I think the problem isn’t neccessary religion (although I think faith is far far superior to religion, and comes with fewer ties and problems attached) but fanatasism. Whether it’s christian, musleum, jewish, whatever- when people get so carried away with a I have the only path to god attitude, and believe anyone who doesn’t follow their faith in the exact same way is wrong and must be changed or face the consequences they believe to exist, that’s the problem.So ginger says canada was formed on christianity- I disagree. it was formed on the idea that this was a country that would have multiple religions, a cultural quilt. and if it was founded by people who happened to be christian? a)they were fleeing persecution, which I think is the real foundation we’re built on and b)that was centuries ago! long long ago we moved towards an accepting society. so yeah, YOU may believe that unless YOU do certain things in certain ways YOU will go to hell, but not everyone does. and it’s frightening when people use that as an excuse to enact laws, wage wars, or create social policy to support their own individual way of worship. SO you view your faith a certain way? cudos. but it doesn’t mean someone else isn’t just as valid, or just as right. it’s this oppsession with being RIGHT that leads to opinions like TTFN- so many peopel bickering over the idiotic nuances and forgetting the overarching themes. If we gave up on that bickering, people like ginger wouldn’t be able to use the bible and her faith as the philosophical-gavel, closing the case on things like homosexuality, or abortion, to name two recent topics of discussion here. and that freaks people out- it would mean they’d have to think for themselves, interpret what they think their definition of god means for them, without that tender cloying blanket of someone else doing it for them. but isn’t that really the only way to true relationship with the divine? You pity me as a fallen soul ginger? I pity you as someone who is so bogged down with man’s interpretation of the divine that you’ll never know true divinity or grace. ps I’m not religious at all, just as a disclaimer- mostly because I feel the presence of something bigger than me MORE when I’m smelling the ocean after a good rainstorm than listening to some moron in a funny robe yammering on about jesus.
I’m sorry, Miles (hangs head shamefully), my piss off remark was not necessary – you’re one of my favourite posters. (kisses your Birkenstocks) I grew up in a very repressed Catholic home in the 1960s and couldn’t quit buy the package although I tried. I gagged and spit out the host at my First Holy Communion (no lie) – that kind of told me something. It sucked then and it sucks now. If you put enough fear in people, they’ll buy any form of ‘redemption’. Just keep that fiery ole hell away. It is a touchy topic, as we’ve obviously demonstrated here. You’re right – people are just being people and seeking diversion is in the nature of the beast, whatever form it may take. (cyberhugs Miles awkwardly).
Well, Gingie-Pooh, aboriginal people would beg to differ with your Christians-were-here-first argument. Weak, weak, weak. Lost soul? Naw, I like to think I’m a work in progress.
TTFN even the aboriginals have a faith/religon if you will. They are certianly not lost people. In fact I respect them highly. I don’t respect people sitting on the religous fence oh i’m atheist. That is just a pure excuse not to follow a belief, whether its christianity, islam,hinduism, budism, etc
I love that you can say you respect them, and say in the same breath that they have a religion / faith “if you will”. Yup, that’s respect.
Atheism is NOT sitting on the fence. It is taking a very strong position and stating a firm belief.Agnosticism is sitting on the fence.
and ginger, there is a big difference between having faith and following a religion. you can have faith and not follow any particular religion. I think many people who aren’t religious do believe in something greater, but are just sick of all the fuckery attached to organized religion- fuckery created and purpetrated by people like you.
TTFN, no worries, religion is always a personal and emotional topic, and I totally understand your feelings towards the Catholic church and religion. I happily backed off when I crossed a line with you because I like you, your posts and I respect your opinions. Cyber-hugs all around 🙂
‘Even the aboriginals have a faith/religon if you will. They are certianly not lost people’ – what that fuck are you talking about Gingy-Pooh? You were the one jawing about lost people. In fact, judging from your opinions, I’d say you’re the only one who’s lost around here.
I’m with you, Hedgy. Personally, I’ve always followed the teachings of the Cosmic Muffin, spinning around the universe on his Plate of Parables. We worship five days a week at the altar of Tim Hortons.