Dear university planning on raising international student fees, international students already pay almost 3 times what Canadian students do, regardless of academia, on top of having restricted access to most funding. I had been told that international fees were higher because of government funding from taxes that the permanent residents payed and foreigners didn’t, which is understandable. How is it then that when government funding lowers, international fees still increase? Are the two events unconnected and conveniently happening at the same time? International students are not just being milked for money because the university cannot do so to Canadian passport holders, right? Does it make any sense for students to pay another TEN percent for improvements in minor services and social events when classes that they have been waiting to take are not offered because of budget cuts? I don’t like paying more for less education and being milked out of $4000 a term for no clear reason. —Sad International Student
This article appears in Apr 14-20, 2011.
You pay three times as much because you don’t pay taxes in this country. Canadian students come from families who do pay taxes and/or pay taxes themselves and those taxes go towards funding our education. Why should we be spending our tax dollars to educate those who don’t contribute to the tax base?
As for the increase in tuition: it costs more to educate your ass these days. And since you don’t pay taxes here (income taxes), you haven’t earned the right to take advantage of any funded education in this country.
Sorry if I sound harsh, but I really don’t see why my income tax should be funding YOUR education. Maybe you should get your government to send over some funds and then maybe your tuition rates will go down for international students.
I have no sympathy for you, OP. Suck it up or go someplace else.
Also: tuition is going up for domestic students too. So STFU.
We should do the same thing to the Southern Ontario students but we don’t.
Also, you fucking tool: I paid $4k/term when I went to Acadia back in 2004 and I was a domestic student.
Wanna know what my American friend paid/term there? Almost 10k.
So stfux2
You’re racist trash kitty. You stfu
It’s because they need to find money somewhere and domestic students protest any time their rates are raised … maybe get some of your international friends together and cause a fuss? That seems to work. Then they’ll get the money from something else which will inconvenience another group of people and so on and so on.
Racist? WTF? Where did she say anything about race?
Obviously I’m racist because I don’t think Canadian tax dollars should be spent on people from other countries who decide to come here to go to school.
*eyeroll*
Tuition rates are going up for Canadian students too. It’s not just foreign students.
Also, I’m guessing “bitch lover” is the OP and doesn’t like to hear the truth. Do you REALLY expect the Canadian tax payer to fund part of your education when you’ve contributed NOTHING to the tax base? The fund of money that pays a large portion of what it costs to educate us Canadian students? Trust me, we’ve paid and will pay our share in that funding — through the tax dollars we’ve paid and will pay.
How’s about we all go over to where you’re from, and demand your government pay part of our educational costs.
No? Don’t like that idea?
Thought so.
If you don’t like the tuition rates in Canada, go someplace else to get your education. No one’s forcing you to come here and pay what you’re paying for your education. I don’t care if you’re american, british, indian, african, asian, arab or whatever. How can you honestly justify not paying into a tax base and then expecting to benefit from said tax base?
What are taxes?
ossifer timothy, meet ossifer titty. she puts new meaning in the saying,”busted”. and they also make cool air bags in an accident. oh yeah, about the bitch, it sucks.
Me always liked PK even if she were wrong but on this she is right on. WTG girl… er lady… er miss… er ms… er woman.
awww shucks, BT! You’re makin’ me blush!
the big ones are blushing http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/…
What taxes do international students not pay that Canadians do, PK? My understanding is as follows:
Income tax: They, as in international students, do. (if they have any income in Canada, and they do have to claim their oversea income on income tax form) HST/GST/PST: They do. (Tourists can get some of that back, under some conditions.) Property tax: They usually don’t have properties in Canada. Pension etc.: They usually don’t pay into it because they aren’t eligible to receive it. Health care premiums: Depends on the province, but they usually pay to the institution “international students health and dental plan fee” type fees which cover basic medical.
What am I missing? 🙁 Is there some kind of secret tax I don’t know about??? This “international students don’t pay taxes” always boggles my mind, and I think PK might have the answer.
OP, don’t like the tuition rates for international students…then go the fuck home and study at one of the universities in your own country. Hope you weren’t one of those ass clowns protesting in Victoria Park recently.
Why don’t you go the fuck home! Jebus!
Nobody would want him, Donk. France would even pretend it didn’t know him and they the gayest country in the world.
notsonewt: when international students come to Canada, they generally are restricted from working off campus. You do get international students working, but most don’t pay income taxes because their incomes are lower than the basic personal amount given the student allowance. In fact, students can make 15-20-ish thousand a year before paying taxes, and no on campus job is going to pay that much. And if they DO pay taxes, they’ll end up getting it all back when they file a return.
And CPP and EI deductions have nothing to do with paying income taxes and don’t contribute to the tax base at all.
Also: I highly doubt someone on a student visa in canada has to pay the canadian government income taxes on monies they make outside of Canada. Remember, these people are here on a student visa, which means they aren’t entitled to work off campus and once their study period is over they have to leave. They’re not here to live, they’re here to study and that’s it.
Are you REALLY suggesting, notsonewt, that YOUR income tax dollars should go to fund the education of international students? Subsidizing people who don’t contribute much if anything to the tax base to go to school would totally fuck our post secondary education resources for everyone — international and domestic students. We just don’t have the funding to do so. And I don’t think we should, either, even if we did have the money. I mean, do you think one of the cultural bureaus in the middle east is going to pay for you to take classes over there? I highly doubt it. Because you’re not a citizen or permanent resident and therefore not entitled to take advantage of their national resources.
And I know this isn’t the case for every international student, but I’ve known MANY and almost all of them were from privileged families who had no problem funding their education. As well, a few Middle Eastern countries will fully fund the education of their citizens at international universities. I work at a university in HRM and I deal with embassies all the time who fund the education of its citizens at the school i work at as a portion of my job description involves working with student accounts.
I honestly don’t feel one bit bad for international students.
Ob, one little question. Why don’t they have a voice? In spite of what some think, we are not a dictatorship. They have the right to protest any increases in their tuition as any other student. They can take pieces of bristol board, use markers to write their slogans with, attach them to sticks, and march on campus, province house and pretty much anywhere else they like. And as PK says, I doubt that any live anywhere close to the pverty line.
Whoa PK, I did not suggest anything at all. I just simply asked a question as to whether there is a specific type of tax that international students do not pay but Canadians do. That’s all, nothing more. The international student debate is nice and old, but one thing is for sure…now they can apply for a work permit to work off-campus part time during the Fall/Winter, and full time during the Spring/Summer months. I don’t know if all international students get all the income taxes back from filing a return, because that’s case-by-case.
But enrolments are down at public schools in many places in Canada, and that means universities need international students to stay afloat. They just want more and more every year, and international students are perfect scapegoats because Canadians can easily point their fingers at them for “taking away seats from Canadians” and “not paying taxes”.
Another thing is, many international students plan to stay in Canada to work and eventually immigrate (and become Canadians). Sure, some of them would go back home because their governments are sponsoring them and they would be thrown into jail if they don’t go back etc., but I just don’t get how you can work at a university and yet despise a certain group of students like you do. Maybe you should start a petition to remove all international students from campus if you have problem with “your tax dollars” going to educating them.
I personally don’t mind “my tax dollars” going towards educating international students. Actually, I have been one myself, and saw many of my friends struggle when we were not allowed to work off-campus (many were from poor countries and lived with bare minimum while in Canada). I have heard my fair share of “if you have any complaints about this country, just leave” type of commentaries too, and they are definitely hurtful when all we are trying to do is get some decent education to have a chance at a good life.
Now that I have immigrated, I pay all sorts of taxes. I try and be a productive member of this Canadian “society”. I just don’t get how people have such huge issue with international students saying “too much is too much” when they already pay triple, quadruple, etc. the Canadian price tag for the same education. I really don’t know why there is so much hate, especially coming from a staff at a university dealing with student accounts…that’s kind of worrisome.
I need to sleep now…so that’s all 🙂 Nothing personal, just stating what i know.
FYI: international students only pay roughly double at Dal and SMU. Pretty sure same goes for Acadia.
And if they’re working p/t during the fall and f/t during the summer they’re likely not making more than their basic personal amount and thus, either not paying taxes (you can check off that little box) OR they’re getting it back when they file a return.
Many do stay, and that’s fine, but many don’t. They get their education and leave, which is of no benefit to Canada.
Foreign students who’s first language isn’t english often come to canada to study in english and improve their language skills. Compared to other english speaking countries (namely the US), Canadian tuition, even at the international student rate, is pretty inexpensive. Americans are happy to come here and pay double because it’s still cheaper and the education is just as good. I have a friend who just completed an MA in international business/finance from Harvard after going to Acadia. He’s American and his parents were more than happy to send him here as opposed to a more expensive american school. And he ended up getting into Harvard… so the education must be pretty decent here.
Honestly, I think the students who are bitching about this issue are really just uneducated on the issue. No reasonable person could expect a country of which they are not citizens of to pick up a large portion of the tab on their education, unless their government was sending some funding over here.
man, they let anyone into harvard…
http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads…
though it is tough to believe when you’re walking around sporting your bling…
http://youwillbeeaten.files.wordpress.com/…
“And as PK says, I doubt that any live anywhere close to the poverty line.”
I think that’s a huge misconception that foreign students are “loaded”. People will only notice the ones they want to notice. It’s not a secret that international students fund a good portion of university costs … and the universities know that. Canada at this population growth rate would fail without immigration and foreign students who choose to stay here … so either get to fucking or accept it as it is. So what, you have to pay taxes for someone else to get an education … I’m ok with that. I dunno, I just see it as “fair” I get to live a “nice uninterrupted youth” the most I can do is “give something” in return. You’ll have the ones who abuse the system, but … you win some you lose some.
I realize my view on the matter will not be a popular one, but remaining insular is not the way to aid the growth of humanity (cliche, I know). This attitude of … “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is yours” will never do anything to help developing countries, and reduce poverty etc.
… and simply saying “go back to where you came from” will never help anyone, including yourselves. That is a phrase I HATE more than anything! It boils my blood! People assume others come here to mooch off the system, when I have 2 parents working professional jobs for your (our) country. That phrase is more hurtful than you understand. It nullifies everything someone has done in a second, and frankly is used too easily!
I think it is good to keep a watchful eye on what it happening within your government and country etc, but do not just check your humanity at the door when you decide to sit down and negotiate.
Hay, I’m not saying anything about immigration and telling immigrants to go back where they came from. I’ve studied HR economies and I know that we NEED immigrants.
All I’m saying is, tuition for international students is what it is because they don’t contribute to the income tax base. I can see just about any logical argument, even if it’s contrary to mine, but I just don’t see how anyone can rationalize paying to educate people who haven’t contributed.
I’ve been to three universities, and spent over 10 years in the university system and I’ve met A LOT of people, including international students, many of whom I worked with in on campus jobs, and I have yet to meet a poor international student (that wasn’t a refugee — but they’re in a completely different catagory, in my opinion). Heck I WORK at a university right now and deal with international students on a regular basis, and I seriously have yet to meet a poor one.
Also: middle eastern countries are really great with funding their citizens’ education. They’ll even fully fund LSAT and GMAT prep courses! They feel it’s important for their citizens to get educated in english so they can come back to their countries and help grow their economies by being able to interact with english speaking countries who are major market players.
Sure a lot stay, but a lot don’t. And it’s not always that easy to get a visa to stay after you’ve graduated. You likely have to secure a job and then have them sponsor your visa application, and sometimes it’s hard for foreigners to get positions when they’re up against citizens (in other places like the EU, EU citizens have to be chosen first and then foreign citizens can be chosen only if you can prove there aren’t any EU citizens capable of doing the work — that’s why EU citizenship is so coveted).
I think international students are awesome – I’ve made many great friends with people from other countries that I still keep in contact today after many years of them being back home or in other provinces, but coming to Canada to study is a choice. The tuition is what it is, and if you don’t like it, you can always choose to study elsewhere. I’m NOT saying “go back where you came from,” I’m simply stating my loathe for people who make DECISIONS and the bitch about them when they knew full well what they were getting themselves into (or should’ve — ignorance is never a valid excuse).
I know you didn’t say that. It wasn’t directed specifically towards you. Also I don’t want tuition lowered, it is where it is for a reason.
Eh, I’m over this anyway.
Next.
zZz, I thought you might have meant these guys:
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.as…
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.as…
I would like to know how many people who are educated here actually stay here… because if people aren’t staying in the country after their studies, then we really are funding an unfair portion of their education. It’s obvious we need immigrants to stay afloat, but as the Canadian population declines and it takes more international students to fill schools, it’s obvious they’re going to have to start charging international students more.
Look for example at the baby boomers who will be reaching 65 very soon. As they retire, there is less of a tax base available to fund their care etc – so there is obviously going to be much less going towards education. What are we going to do? Personally, I don’t think that universities can sustain themselves, at least in the way they have been able to.
It’s unfortunate for you OP. I feel like you have a right to complain, but I don’t know how much support you’ll really get – why aren’t you attending university in your own country? Why aren’t you fighting for affordable quality university in your own country? Why can’t your government help you with your education?
I didn’t like tuition raises either, and I went to one of the most expensive undergraduate schools in Canada (Mount Allison). I’ll be paying them for a long time with my student loans, but in the long run it’s up to you to decide whether it’s worth it.
Dear Kitty,
Clearly, you are the one who is uneducated in the matter.
International students’ education IS NOT paid for by your taxes which, as i said, IS UNDERSTANDABLE and the declared reason for differential fees.
$4000 is only the differential fee, not entire term tuition, which ranges from 7500/semester-15000ish. In most cases, the differential fee, alone, is higher than the cost of classes themselves.
What has just recently happened is that there has been a budget cut, which we are all familiar with, of government support by 4% and a consequence increase in students fees by 3%, which, to international students, was applied to the differential fees as well as tuition, regardless of their education not being funded by the government and the equivalent money already being charged in the fees.
However, the university felt they needed more money, since the deficit was still of -1.5% (information given by the head of the board governors of Dalhousie today). This deficit couldn’t be covered with money from regular students and the solution was to simply use international students to get more money. They have to justify it as something that would be applied to international students in order to have it approved by the government. So, coveniently, after they hear the news of the cuts, they decide that they want to add “improvements” to international students services and the ISES office so that that extra fee can be charged. However, the proposed changes are meaningless and unwanted by the student body: the list of things include ridiculous things such as e-newsletter (free-internet based advertising), more bulletin boards across campus and increase in social events, which should not be the focus when the quality of the education itself is being affected by the cuts.
Today, in the meeting of the board of governors, where such things are decided, it was expressed, in a rather condescending tone, that they do not have to ask STUDENTS about their decisions, that the choices are made by them, not by the people affected by those choices– which was said in almost those exact words. A rather revolting speech that referred not just to international students, but all.
Thus, students who, like me, hold high GPAs, have been living in the country for years, studying, working, paying taxes, contributing to the economy and insisting in
loving, caring and wanting to be a part of this country are turned into cash-cows because of the kind of attitude you just showed: we don’t have a voice because we don’t have citizenship, therefore, you don’t care if it is just or not.
To the contrary of what you were thinking, it is international students who are paying/will be paying even more for most services for all students because we have no say in the matter.
Afterall, if there is injustice, those suffering it should just leave and it is no one’s concern, right? If that had been the mentality, none of the diverse communities that exist in this country nowadays, nor any minority who had ever been oppressed, would have thrived.
As you recognize, it is essential for the development of this country to welcome immigrants. Attitudes like the one you have just brought forth, supported by events such as the fees increase, push away its potential hard-working new-citizens, who would have already lived and been educated in the country. After all, who wants to be in a place where they are judged, abused and not heard, regardless of their will to contribute to the country, on the basis of where they were born? Would it be different if the immigration office issued me a permanent-resident paper tomorrow?
Indeed, many students will be leaving the country: the university will lose A LOT of its money and a lot of its potential future working citizens. Most students come here because they believe this is a better place to be, that there will be better opportunities, better education, that this will be the multicultural land it advertise itself as. Most of them are not trying to steal the beautiful superior education of Canada away to their countries but want to be a part of this.
It is people like you and situations like this that tells us we are not wanted here.
“Suck it of leave,” as you say it… is that what should have been the answer to slaves whose owners knew they would starve to death and have no place in society if they tried to run away? Or the answer to the abused wife who could not leave her husband because she wouldn’t be able to support herself because there was no room for her in the workforce?
It really is a matter of principles, or the lack thereof, dear angry kitty.
Sincerely,
The Sad Disappointed Student who posted the bitch.
I’m not angry, Lux. I could actually care less about this issue. I just like to argue points.
To be honest, the whole issue of tuition and education costs is about at the bottom of my priority list at this point in my life.
People will always go to university which means there will always be tuition paid, which, therefore, means my salary and my job are pretty secure. *shrug*
I really don’t understand why people always feel so disenfranchised by others … I’ll never get it. To me education is not an option. Where there is a will there is a way. Simply learning the cost is not enough to keep one away … because once again education is not an option, it is a must. Therefore saying to students “you don’t like it, don’t come here” is unfair and frankly kind of insulting. If these are the costs, these are the costs and international students should be able to argue with costs because it is a high rate to pay. Still though people will pay it, leave and go back to work in their countries as professionals, or stay here and work, supporting you and potentially the people they left behind. This place does not exist on some other planet with problems entirely separate, acting as such, in my mind is wrong.
… but meh. This is a losing conversation. Lux articulated it a lot better than I could.
PK/others may not be coming right out and saying “Suck it or leave,” but there is this weird undertone in the logic that points toward that feeling.
Ah well.