I’m going to get flamed for this, but fuck it. I’m jealous of the U.S’s stance on “Open/Concealed Carry”.
With all the bullshit that goes on in this city, (muggings, shootings, attempted rapes, “gang” related activity) I’m pretty pissed off at the lack of police response for crimes.
I barely even feel safe walking around Highfield on a weekday night, let alone Halifax on a weekend. Everyone’s heard of someone getting stabbed, or shot at, or raped, or have their house broken into to find some fucking weirdo watching them sleep.
I wish we had “carry” laws similar to the U.S. Complete an application, get exhaustive background checks, have an interview with someone in the police department, take some courses to prove you can handle a weapon, and then have the PRIVILEGE to carry said weapon. (Mind you, anyone who lawfully uses any weapon in self-defense would have to prove that they were just in using it to prevent grievous bodily harm to themselves or others).
I know a lot of you will say, “blah blah, guns aren’t the answer, guns are evil, etc, etc.” but that’s another argument. We need a system set in place so that every citizen can at least defend themselves in SOME manner. A firearm is a deterrent, whether open or concealed. Criminals can carry anytime/anything they want, but the average John can’t even carry a KNIFE without getting harassed by law enforcement.
I have been robbed before, and it is not fun. I didn’t even bother to call the HRP, because frankly, they don’t do shit all. Ask any officer, and they’ll mention “reasonable force.” If a criminal is stabbing you to death, you’re only allowed to use an equal amount of force to end the confrontation. Or, you can just run away. I, for one, would NEVER argue with any combination of numbers such as: .357, .44, 9×19, etc.
If all these criminals can carry weapons without a goddamn care in the world, then we should be able to as well. Hell, it’s a right of ours as well to “keep and bear arms”. So legal gun owners are criminal scum too, right? Just ask the Liberals.
—Walking around, half-cocked
This article appears in Aug 11-17, 2011.
Yep, that’s working really well for them. There’s no gun or knife crimes in the US, right?
Get a clue, carrying weapons doesn’t solve anything.
Tommy?
No, I believe the gun laws are fine, we just need a better-trained police force to deal with gangs and the illegal gun trade. Maybe we need a federal police force for this alone.
With all the bitches on here about messed-up coffees, angry stroller moms, incompetent drivers, obnoxious neighbours and annoying bus riders, do you really want any these people packing heat? Background check or not.
granted, highfield is a great place to take a walk at night if you feel like getting raped or mugged, but thats due to packing many low income (generally less educated) people into a small area that is under policed. giving those same people carry permits would lead to many more bad decisions than are already being made there.
but in general the violent crime is far more likely to be perpetrated by bad people on other bad people. While it isnt acceptable and we need a solution, the average law abiding citizen is in very little danger on the streets of HRM as long as them make wise decisions about when and where to walk.
introducing legally carried firearms introduces a level of hysteria that is great for media ratings, but bad for the morale of our city. I would rather have much stiffer penalties for those found guilty of carrying said firearms and committing these offenses, especially young offenders who commit crime with impunity knowing there is little to no consequences. That type of “permission” is breeding generations of psychopaths that we are now having to deal with as adults.
i agree there o.p., if you had an open weapon, little bastards would think twice about fucking with you.in truth, i’m actually bonded and licensed to carry a firearm, open or concealed. was part of my job at pinkerton’s security.
plus being in the forces never hurt either.my choice i well known on here, the magnum ams .44 automag. that baby will stop an elephant dead in it’s tracks. what it does to humans, well you can just fucking imagine.
there should be an open carry law, like in some parts of the staes, yes. like nevada, and a few more. there is too fucking much drug shit around, and the little wannabes, need a lesson in getting an aim on things, them being the target, of course. i lobbie long and hard back in the 90’s, for open weapons for personal protection, but the police forces, said folks were safe then, and had no need of one on them. things have changed a lot since then, and some days, i just carry one of mine, for the fuck of it.
the deal here is, if you wanna fuck with me, then behold your ass in a hospital. sound harsh, maybe so, but you get fucked up, before i do.and a little hand to hand doesn’t hurt either, except, if yu are on the recieving end. and would love that to be mandatory, for all women.
flame on people, but know this. i will never be the victem, of some little asshole, with a sideways gun.
I don’t know for sure, but I’m fairly certain that a) the U.S. has a higher crime rate than Canada and b) our Constitution doesn’t have anything in it about the right to bear arms.
http://coobs.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/f…
Huh. I basically disagree with everything OB says. KBA’s pretty much got it bang on.
Wasn’t me troodon. You can get a license for a firearm, even a handgun (although maybe not for much longer) but it’s tough to get a permit to carry it, concealed or otherwise. I believe you have to be “grandfathered in”.
I dunno where I stand on this issue..
I can say that I don’t feel in any way unsafe walking around Highfield, even at night. The last guy who got shot, that pizza guy/dope man, was from out of town and thought he could come to the North End of Dartmouth and step on people’s toes, so he got shot.
Not exactly random innocents. Also, there is plenty of Police around.
I agree and disagree OP.
The good news is you are aloud to keep guns in your house, so you can protect your home and your family without any fears of catching a charge.
If you really want to push your luck, and you have a car, you can always keep it in the trunk, if you get pulled over and they find it you can say you’re on your way to the shooting range, but I wouldn’t advise it. If it’s after business hours you’d be SOL.
The comment portion of my brain seems to be out of order.
I have to ask, what would Bernard Hugo Goetz do?
if you dont feel safe walk around with a baseball bat. they are leagal to carry all the time.
tommyjules902: you will always be able to get a restricted firearms license. U need them for some shooting competitions
tommyjules902: also firearms in your house are not allowed to get stored in a way that they can be quicikly accessed and loaded to stop an intruder. If you had your firearm setup for this it would be illeaglly storing a firearm. There are a lot of strict rules on the storing and transporting of firearms.
You have to have the action open, with a trigger lock in place. If you have a case it has to be in it with a chain through the trigger guard and attached to the wall of the case. Also the case has to be bolted to the floor. With the ammo store away from the firearms.
It takes a little time to get the stored firearm open loaded, and ready to fire.
guns are not weapons or comfort totems. They are tools, at least thats what i was always told growing up. also i was taught never to point a firearm at a human.
It’s not the guns I’d worry about – it’d be the fucktards pulling the trigger.
I think we should start a petition to bring back the HA. That will smarten these stupid street punks that think shooting sideways is supacool. They’ll find them all in Newfoundland with double taps to the back of the head. Problem solved!!!
If I were paranoid or afraid walking around at night – or day – I’d just carry a box cutter with me.
Despite what I said about feeling safe here, my friend Dave did get killed right around the corner, on the catwalk. He was beaten to death. The gun’s aren’t really the problem.
It’s kinda fucked when you think about it though because if Dave would have been armed those fuckin scumbags would be maybe dead instead of walking around free, and Dave might be alive.
Just sayin..
There are too myths about what it would be like to have Conceal and Carry. In Florida, the conceal and carry permit holders are statistically several times less likely to use a handgun in a crime than the average Florida resident ( including non firearms bearing citizens).
Does that shock you? It shouldn’t. All CCW permits holders are properly trained and have to pass a criminal records check from the police. The whole process makes them the cream of the crop when it comes to responsible, law abiding citizens.
THIS city though?? really? Did you move here from the suburbs of Absolutely Nowhere?
Yes, because the United States doesn’t have murders, rapes, robberies, etc… *yawn*
It’s not the Canadian way.
“It’s not the Canadian way.”
IMO, self defense is a natural right, not one that is Canadian or American. If or when a victim is faced with lethal force, it is completely natural to want to preserve and defend your well being.
Handguns are a wonderfully humane way to stop violence, because while one hand points the handgun at the criminal, the other hand is free to call 911. Don’t make me hold a rifle or a baseball bat with two hands, you won’t like the results.
Remember that incident in the US a few years back, some poor schmuck goes door to door trick or treating at Halloween and kaboom, he gets one right in the melon from some paranoid homeowner?
Now, if we substituted Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Sponsor my School trip, ANY politician then I’m in.
OP, why the hell would you be walking in Highfield Park? That place is a write-off and contains the poor and scum of HRM.
Kill Brindi, the swarming attacks in this city are taking on legendary status. We need to take back the streets. Our politicians are obviously more worried about cashing in with developers than the safety of its citizenry.
I always maintained that it will take one of our elected officials getting attacked before something is done.
Silly me, when I saw “conceal and carry” I thought this was about carrying beer around openly.
——-If all these criminals can carry weapons without a goddamn care in the world, then we should be able to as well——-
Actually, we ARE able to carry guns like the criminals do “without a goddamn care in thebworld”- Illegally.
You make it sound like criminals are allowed to carry guns by law, and law-abiding citizens aren’t.
I don’t think we need more guns on the street, legal or not. Some shit goes down and you think you’re Dirty Harry and pull your pistol out, and bullets start flying?
Fuck. You.
If handguns aren’t useful in the possession of properly trained and screened people…..if the mere presence of a handgun on our streets is a risk to us, then
for all those that agree with these statements, I suggest you start a campaign to disarm our police.
“it will take one of our elected officials getting attacked before something is done.”
I believe that Slawn Doan has already a sexual harrasment grievance with the Canadian Human Rights Commissars allegeing that the “Male members (snigger) of Council have repeatedly exposed her to ‘boy germs’ and sung the ‘Sittin’ in a tree’ song on numerous inappropriate occasions.”
Conceal and carry is a much a deterrent to violent crime as the death penalty is; which is to say, none. Since various levels of government seem to be unable to keep irresponsible morons from operating motor vehicles I would seriously question the ability of any bureaucracy to keep handguns out of the hands of some chucklehead.
the bureaucracy currently isn’t keeping handguns out of the hands of some chucklehead.
I think the point is, many law abiding responsible citizens are sick and tired of being labeled a chucklehead when it simply isn’t true.
Trust me, I grew up on “Dirty Harry”, “Death Wish” and “Taxi Driver”. I’m no squishy liberal. I’d love to see some aggrieved citizen put a couple of shouldabeen abortions in the ground and get off. But it doesn’t happen. And the odds are that, invariably, some innocent party gets hurt and/or a firearm winds up in the hands of scumbags. Because, unless you are a S.W.A.T. officer, or special forces operator from J.T.F. 2 or Seal Team 6 – who fires more live ammunition in a month than most lifers do in their career – you’re just a keen hobbyist.
Besides, as someone said earlier it’s not the Canadian way. It IS the Canadian way to make victims out of perpetrators, place the fault on society, and reduce policing powers to the point that all they can really do is notify your next of kin. And that sucks ass.
I totally agree OP. Even some northern states like Connecticut have open carry legislation.
Not that it will ever happen here – we have a few generations now of people well trained by government to think that the government should be the only ones allowed to protect the public. Because they do such a good job in all of the other facets of our daily lives.
Because the population at large can’t be trusted to do it for themselves.
What are we trusted to do for ourselves here, really? lol. Not much. We even need the government to set gas prices for us, for fuck sakes.
No wonder the Americans are so hard against “socialism” – because sooner or later, it does end up trampling the rights of citizens and taking away their choices.
Look at Britain during the riots. People running to their local gardening store to find shovels to defend themselves with, lol. Poor fuckers. And there are MANY in this country who won’t stop until Canada is JUST LIKE THE UK. Big brother staring at you from thousands of cameras located on every street corner and intersection, and a populace unable (and brain-washed over generations) against wanting to defend themselves.
Fucking sick. I hate the conservatives for a lot of reasons in this country, but honestly, I am glad they are there to guarantee gun rights.
And I remember reading they will be revisiting legislation re: self defense, so things may get easier for those who shoot intruders. The sooner the better! Go ahead, make my day motherfuckers!
Guyute: the problem with that is…………if you pulled a gun on a swarm of kids you would have to be prepared to actually shoot someone. They might run away, but more likely that mob mentality will have them start approaching you and mocking you till you have the choice of shooting, or having them take it away from you and quite possibly shoot you with it. then you are dead and there is a gun in the hands of kids who dont fear confrontation.
People think of guns as a deterrent but that only works if you are really prepared to shoot someone and they know it. I dont know many law abiding citizens who are mentally prepared to shoot a kid.
It IS the Canadian way. 1 in 3 residents owns a gun in this country, which means most likely, the average household in this country with 3 people, has a gun in it. It may not be a handgun, most likely a hunting rifle, but to say gun ownership and self defense isn’t Canadian is ludicrous.
KBA, why has that never happened with an armed police officer?
First, apologies for the length of this post but this is something I have an opinion about. Second, Great Value, to answer your question, police are taught to protect their weapon at all times. It’s one of the first things that is taught to you when going through police training, how to protect your weapon when in close quarters or subduing someone. ALWAYS protect your weapon. This training goes hand-in-hand with their firearms training where they, to echo KBA’s comment, are taught that if they draw their weapon, they had better be prepared to use it. Their weapons are meant as a last line of defence, (sometimes, it’s the only line, depending on the circumstances) This coupled with the fact that most, if not all police forces in Canada enforce strict policies with regards to their officers drawing their weapon, (full reports must be completed as to the circumstances, reasoning, real or perceived threat, witnesses, etc. each and everytime a weapon is unholstered in the line of duty), all act as a system of checks in balances. It HAS happened where police will have their weapon taken from them but the prevelence of this is low compared to the potential of it happening in a largely untrained, undisiplined population. Do you honestly think that a citizen would file a report just for unholstering their weapon? Do you think the average person would have the presence of mind to rationally, comprehensively and immediately determine intent and potential deadly threat and then make a split second decision to potentially end someone’s life in self defence based on that threat? I don’t care if this person is screened a dozen times or deemed to be a responsible person, unless they have received the same police training, I say no, they wouldn’t be able to do it, instead, making a rash and knee-jerk reaction and either killing an innocent person or getting killed themselves. The reason being, police training takes months, in some cases, years to complete. A large portion of this training is firearms related. Not just in proficency and techniques either, but also in reasoning, psychological effects and circumstances involved in a weapons related incident. They are trained to perform this decision making process, taking in everything they see, prioritizing elements based on threat and need for deadly force, all within a split second and they practice this over and over again through-out their careers. This is not something you can teach the average citizen in a 2 week safety course. This training is ongoing.
I’m not saying police don’t screw up or make bad decisions. They are only human afterall. But because they are so extensively trained and drilled, and because they have a system of accountability in place, the chance of something going wrong are incredibly less compared to some vigilante/survivalist who watched too many Dirty Harry and Death Wish movies and feels it’s his “right” to carry a gun. Not only that, but if an officer actually DOES shoot someone, there is a huge support net in place to help them deal with what happened. Counselling, support, testing, etc. This is not available to the average joe so, if heaven forbid, they DID shoot someone, they would be left to their own devices to cope with it. (And make no mistake, pulling the trigger affects you! It can seriously mess you up). So now we’d be left with a gun-toting person whose mental state is now seriously compromised with no means of help or support. Not a great combo in my book.
The last thing we need are conceal and carry laws here. It doesn’t work and it’s been proven. It’s like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. You want to affect some change, lobby to have more police and untie their hands when it comes to dealing these punk fucks. As Ivan said, for too long the criminals are being made out to be the victims. Police do their job and arrest the bad guy only to have him back on the street in 24 hours because of lax laws or some stupid technicality. If you want a more immediate solution, loosen control on restricted, (not prohibited) intermediate weapons like pepper spray and ASP batons.
Yes that’s right – give the government MORE powers because we aren’t safe enough yet lol – now THAT’S DANGEROUS…
When gun control advocates peddle their oft-failed schemes as solutions, they avoid mentioning details of three other school shootings where armed intervention saved lives:
• In Pearl, Miss., assistant principal Joel Myrick stopped triple murderer Luke Woodham using a handgun from his car.
• In Edinboro, Pa., the 14-year-old who killed a teacher at an off-campus dance was captured by shotgun-wielding James Strand.
• At Virginia’s Appalachian School of Law, student Tracy Bridges used his pistol to detain murderer Peter Odighizuwa.
Beyond anecdotes, researchers John Lott and William Landes, then at Yale and the University of Chicago, respectively, studied multiple victim public shootings. Data from 1976 to 1995 showed the number of shootings in states with concealed handgun laws declined by 84 percent, deaths plummeted by 90 percent and injuries by 82.5 percent.
The two called their findings “dramatic,” concluding: “[T]he only policy factor to have a consistently significant influence on multiple victim public shootings is the passage of concealed handgun laws.”
Criminals don’t obey laws
Like North Carolina, Virginia prohibits guns on campuses. But policies purporting to create “gun-free” zones actually increase victimization, found the researchers: “States with the fewest gun free zones have the greatest reductions [in] killings, injuries, and attacks.”Indeed, of eight major school rampages tracked by The New York Times, six occurred after enactment of the federal “Gun Free School Zones Act” in 1996.
Said Lott, “Gun prohibitionists concede that banning guns around schools has not quite worked as intended — but their response has been to call for more regulation of guns. Yet what might appear to be the most obvious policy may actually cost lives. When gun-control laws are passed, it is law-abiding citizens, not would-be criminals, who adhere to them.”
dartmouthy thats all great……………but thats in the US where restricted gun ownership is rampant….. most criminals arnt killing each other with long guns, they are using handguns and assault style weapons.
In Canada, in spite of the media visualizations to the contrary, handguns and assault weapons are not as common here. especially in HRM. In order for those stats to have meaning in canada you have to look at canadian stats.
Marc lepine would have to be our most notorious school killer, and that was in 1989. sure there have been a few other small incidents over the years, but nothing like the mass killings experienced in the US.
either its because canadians dont have access to the same weaponry, or more likely, because we have a different mentality than the US.
If we as Canadians have a different mentality, then why would you want to try and bring in a US style mentality towards guns and personal protection.
We are approx 10% of the population of the US…………show me that we have 10% of the gun crime of the US…. 10% of the murders etc. If indeed we are at that point, then you have a valid point and sign me up.
I really dont know what the stats are, i would love someone to post them, then we can make informed opinions rather than over-reacting to our admittedly unfortunate rise in gun related crimes in HRM.
No where did I say to give the government MORE power. I beleive I said for the gov’t to give more power to the POLICE and to loosen restrictions on intermediate weapons like pepper spray, ASP batons and tasers for the general public.
“either its because canadians dont have access to the same weaponry, or more likely, because we have a different mentality than the US.”
Or it is because they have 320 million people to our 34 million people, and it’s just that more likely.
The police are the government’s enforcers avast – one in the same
i you had read the entire post i did address the difference in population and asked you to find empirical evidence that our gun-involved crime rates are the same per-capita as the united states. if the US rates are the same as canada per capita then absolutely i think you are correct.
I await your post with the statistics.
cheers
I seem to remember reading about a man in Dartmouth who accidentally shot (and killed?) his son.
There would be a lot more of that happening.
Don’t even pretend there wouldn’t be.
This is a cut and paste from a firearms instructor that I have shared discussions with:
I got thinking about the insistence of the anti-gun folks that we don’t want to be like the AMERICANS, with no gun control, and blood running in the streets! I had read that murder was so high in American ghettoes that it skewed national figures, as (obviously) there could be social causes for murder in those circumstances………SOOOOOO
I went looking to isolate two populations, as close as possible in population make-up, culture, etc, with the ONLY difference being gun control laws. I settled on the west, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in Canada, and the three American states that border them, Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. These seemed to be the best examples, as they are the two areas of Canada and the United States that are the most alike in population culture, etc., yet most different in gun legislation.
Let me lay it out for you.
In Canada, before you buy a long gun, you must pass a safety course, undergo an investigation, get references including your spouse, obtain a license, and register the firearm. Most military semi-autos are prohibited. Semi-auto rifles can only have magazines with 5 rounds
In these states, if you want the semi-auto version of the American military M-16, you walk into the gun store, put down your cash, buy the piece and as many 30 round magazines as you like. You wait a federally-mandated 7 days, and go get your rifle. No license, no registration, no course, any rifle is OK.
In Canada, the vast majority of handguns are prohibited. If you want a handgun, you must either be a collector, or a target shooter. Self-defense is NOT allowed. You must have a long gun license (see above), pass ANOTHER course, and register your pistol. You must belong to a gun club, and you are ONLY allowed to transfer the weapon back and forth from the club to home, it must be trigger locked, and in a locked case.
If you want a handgun in any of these states, it is exactly the same as the process for buying a military “assault” rifle in the Sates, as laid out above. No license, no registration, no course, no NOTHING. NO handguns are prohibited.
In Canada, getting a license to carry a handgun is practically impossible.
In these states, the gov’t MUST give you a license to carry a handgun for self-defense if you don’t have a criminal record.
Just to make it clear, here are the ratings for the states given by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: Montana (F), North Dakota (D), Minnesota ( C-)
Believe me, Canada would get an A+++ from Sarah Brady.
So, Canada is a wonderful, peaceful place where everyone is safe and happy, but step across the border and you trip over bodies and fall into the mess of blood, guts and expended shell casings, right?
Well, maybe not.
MURDER RATES
————————2000…2001…2002…2003…2004
Manitoba———— 2.61…2.95…3.12…3.70… 4.27 (per 100,000)
(2002 – 1,151,000)—–30…..34……36…..43….. 49 (murders)
Saskatchewan——2.58…2.70… 2.71…4.12…3.92
(2002 – 1,000,000)…. 26…. 27….. 27…..41…..39
Alberta—————1.96…2.29… 2.25…2.03…2.69
(2002 – 3,056,000)…. 60…..70……69…..62 …. 82
Montana………….1.80…3.80….1.80…3.30…3 .20
(2003 – 917,000)…….17…..35……17……30…..29
North Dakota…….0.60…1.10… 0.80….1.90…1.40
(2003 – 633,000)……..4…….7…….5……12…….9
Minnesota……….3.10… 2.40… 2.20… 2.50…2.20
(2003 – 5,059,000)..157…..121…..111….126….111
HERE’S THE SHOCKER!
MURDER RATES PER 100,000
———————————-2000…2001…2002…2003…2004
Canada West—————–2.22—-2.52—-2.54—2.80—-3.26 (per 100,000)
Population 5,207,000……..116…. 131…..132….146….170 (murders)
USA Northwest—————2.69—-2.47—-2.01—2.54—-2.25
Population 6,609,000……..178…. 163……133….168…..149
GUN CONTROL IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!
BTW Figuring this out took me HOURS………….Canadian stats are from Stats Canada, American Stats on population are from —
American Stats on murder rates are from —
Facts on state gun laws are from —
Math concerned is by ME.
Edited to say: DAMN, I had those all set out in coherent tables, but all spacing disappeared when I submitted it……..so (being computer illiterate) I’ve used spacers……sorry about that)
nice researching gv
Yes, I am very impressed GV and this is from a gun control advocate. However, I do tend to agree with Avast0, if Joe Blow was to own a gun, I would like to see him get the kind of training a police officer would get. But that isn’t going to happen!
A gun is a very specialized piece of machinery that should only be in the possession of highly-trained people IMO. Yes criminals have guns. As long as guns are manufactured, they always will to some degree. That segment of society has no respect for our laws. The rest of society, law-abiding to semi-law-abiding, needs laws that duly punish those who commit a crime with a gun. We need better laws not armaments for the average joe.
I don’t have enough confidence in the competence of the general populace to want that.
I certainly don’t want to live in Dodge City, that wouldn’t make me feel any safer.
Your stats on the murder rates are interesting. Are the murders all gun related?
I’m all for reform in our training programs, that is a whole hell of a lot more reasonable than the pompous assumption that a law abiding citizen can not be trusted.
Sorry I hope I didn’t come across as “antipolice” because I’m not. Its got to be one of the most difficult and probably thankless and disturbing jobs there is. Thank goodness we have these people who take all of this training and do their best. I just don’t think that should negate a law abiding educated and regulated gun owner from defending himself realistically in a situation of do or die – which will hopefully never happen.
Anyway just wanted to clarify that lol. Nice stats great value!
good point. policing and self defense are two separate issues covered by two separate laws.
You don’t need to be a fully trained police officer to carry a conceal firearm. it is unreasonable to assume that everyone that has a concealed firearm will be faced with the need to control unruly crowds.
it wont be taken out except in a gun range or if you are faced with a 300lb rapist that has every intention of beating you close to death then leaving you without help to die.
Was I being pompous GV? I’m talking about the general populace as a whole. What other weapon does the average joe have? The automobile. I don’t think every Tom, Dick and Harry should be behind the wheel either. That’s more of what I was driving at. Same thing only times one hundred with a firearm.
good job in the research that looks like it took a while to complete.
what i would like to see is some overall stats for the whole country so here is what i found.
Gun Crimes In The United States
In 2007, guns took the lives of 31,224 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.1
69,863 Americans were treated in hospital emergency department for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2007.2
In 2007, nearly 70% of all murders nationwide were committed with a firearm.38
In 2007, 385,178 total firearm crimes were committed, including 11,512 murders, 190,514 robberies, and 183,153 aggravated assaults.39
cited from: http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun…
In Canada:
Police reported 8,105 victims of firearm-related violent crime in 2006, representing a rate of 27.5 per 100,000 population. Robbery (49%) and assault (29%) were the most common violations, accounting for about three-quarters of the total number of firearm-related violent victimizations.
There were 190 homicides committed with a firearm in 2006, accounting for 31% of the total number of homicides. The rate of 0.6 victims per 100,000 population was 16% lower than in 2005 and the same as the previous 10-year average.
Also in rebuttal to GVs data:
Rates of firearm violence highest in the west
Generally speaking, violent crime rates tend to be higher in western Canada than in the central or eastern part of the country. The 2006 rates of firearm-related violent crime mirrored this pattern, with Saskatchewan (38.5) and Manitoba (37.7) reporting rates that were two to three times higher than those in Newfoundland and Labrador (11.4), Prince Edward Island (12.3) and New Brunswick (15.6) (Chart 6). The rates of firearm-related violence in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut were substantially higher than those in the provinces.
Cited from: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008…
so if we were to look at the per capita rates of gun related violence and death, the US has more than 5x per capita gun murders than canada.
Id say those stats make it pretty clear that gun control does for the most part work.
Are you kidding me? Try living in the States and you’ll see how gun violence there is. If you take two cities of comparable sizes such as Toronto & Houston, you will see that the amount of gun violence in Houston FAR outweighs what’s going on in Toronto.
How many homicides in Toronto vs Houston? Of those, how many were gun related? Do you see the violence taking place in Mexico? Where do you think the majority of those guns are coming from? Not Canada, that’s for sure.
Of the places that allow for carrying of concealed weapons & all that, do you think their crime rates have gone down? Definitely not. If allowing people to carry guns is a deterrent, then explain to me why the US had 11,346 gun homicides in 2005? (From US National Institute of Justice). Further from them:
In 2005, 11,346 persons were killed by firearm violence and 477,040 persons were victims of a crime committed with a firearm. Most murders in the United States are committed with firearms, especially handguns.
In 2006, firearms were used in 68 percent of murders, 42 percent of robbery offenses and 22 percent of aggravated assaults nationwide.
So, does that make you feel even safer if you’re armed? Imagine the toll it takes when that many people are killed from crime, suicides, accidents, etc… Then take in to account all the injuries.
Darthmouthy, mentioned several cases in which armed intervention prevented a shooting spree, yet fails to mention how many armed shooting sprees take place every day in the US. For example:
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/man-goes-on-sh…
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2009/mar/11/alab…
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/update-mic…
Then let’s not forget about all the shooting rampages that have taken place at American schools.
As of Dec 6, 2010, the CDC reports:
EVERY DAY (on average)
– 268 people in America, 47 of them children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, and police intervention.
– 86 people die from gun violence, 35 of them murdered.
– Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence.
– Every day, 183 people are shot, but survive their gun injuries.
– Every day, 38 children and teens are shot, but survive their gun injuries.
“How a politician stands on the gun control tells you how he or she views you as an individual; as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of.”
not my words but they express my opinion oh so eloquently
troodon, I think comments like
“the average citizen should not be allowed to vote”
or
“the average citizen should not be trusted”
are views that are so fundamentally fucked up, I just don’t even know what to say about them.
Am I making any sense here? you dont have to agree.
Not my quotes. My quote would be more like “The average citizen should not be trusted.. to perform brain surgery”. “The average citizen should not trusted.. to run a nuclear power plant”. Silly, I understand but they are disciplines that require specialized training, years of it. These citizens are highly-trained and not “average”. Not “average” when it comes to these skills.
Yes, there are probably thousands of people with the natural aptitude and maturity to handle firearms, tens of thousands but there are millions of people in this country and I would not want anyone other than those with those attributes to have the legal right to carry a gun.
I understand what you are saying but disagree on a few points. I think the average penis can be trusted not to be a rapist. I think the average trigger finger can be trusted not to become a murderer. Is it my background that is different? I didnt grow up around halifax, do haligonians have a low regard for the humanity of their neighbors?
GV,
Basically you’re trying to carry on the American motto of “If the citizens are armed to the teeth, then the government should fear them”, correct? That would make it less of a police state and more freedoms for the people, yes?
If that’s the case, then why is that the lovely War on Terrorism has resulted in less freedom, more government bureaucracy and even more government control in the USA? Prime example would be the Department of Homeland Security. They’ve made travel more restrictive and have aggressive policies in which you’re basically guilty until proven innocent. Then we have the case of the CIA and how it treated prisoners of war (Guantanamo Bay, and Hotel California are a couple of examples).
The US Government broke its own laws in treating prisoners (Iraq & Afghanistan) and even the FBI is involved in warrantless searches:
http://www.freedom-won.net/tag/warrantless…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte…
They & now the Conservative Gov are trying to pass laws in which your ISP will be forced to log your activity and hand it over to the police if they think you’re a suspicious person. Even if you have not committed a crime or done anything wrong. If the wind blows in the wrong direction, you will be targeted. Keep an eye on the Harper government in the up coming months. They want to rush through a “Comprehensive Crime Bill”. In that bill will be buried, a section on warrantless web tracing. If you’re not familiar with it, here are some stories:
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2011/…
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/polit…
http://iheartfreedom.ca/personal-freedoms/…
Everyday, more and more Americans are losing their Constitutional rights in the all encompassing “War on Terrorism”. Some of my examples should demonstrate that citizens being armed does not mean they won’t be ruled over. So far, luckily in Canada, the governments have listened to the people and not followed every single step that the USA has. At least Chretien had it right to not get involved in the US led invasion of Iraq.
I have more confidence in the penis than the finger.
Troodon, if you grew up in east central LA , then i could understand if you felt that whenever a riot breaks out it is a bad idea for citizens to have firearms because many otherwise law abiding citizens became very violent and unruly….YOU MIGHT WANT TO BLAME THE EASE OF ACCESS TO FIREARMS.
But, I don’t. Because I have lived in several mining towns in Canada where violence has hit a picket line. And, where the majority of the workforce participate in firearm sports like skeet and hunting. Do they respond the same way as the LA rioters? Nope! Do they go running to their pick up trucks and pull out their ‘evil’ firearms and magically transform into hideous criminals that once were law abiding citizens? Nope!
Why is this so? It defies logic. It defies the universal truth that the mere ACCESS to firearms can turn violent situations into hellish situations.
Maybe……maybe…….access to firearms isnt the driving force to firearms violence, no?
Maybe, just maybe, the general populous in canada doesnt need to be trained like police officers to be trusted?
Imo, the reason why canadians can be trusted with firearms is our culture. When we buy and use firearms it is within a culture of hunting, or farming, or just basic self defense from animals while out camping.
In the US they buy firearms with the culture that they are going to use it to defend, to protest, the enforce, and govern.
“Imo, the reason why canadians can be trusted with firearms is our culture. When we buy and use firearms it is within a culture of hunting, or farming, or just basic self defense from animals while out camping.”
That’s great. The Harper Feds are doing away with the long gun registry and rifles basically cover those things you mentioned. So, other than that, the gun laws really don’t need to change do they? I mean from your perspective.
You are pretty much correct. The destruction of the long gun registry matters me. As system that doesnt blame duck hunters and skeet shooters(LONG GUNS) for the transgressions of the criminal bastards that rape, murder and steal…..this matters to me.
But, you are correct, my interest in Conceal and carry laws arent that serious. Except on an academic level where i will argue up and down that properly trained and screen citizens with ccw permits don’t cause the sort of mahem that the gun phobic crowd would insist on.
You’ve got my vote GV 😉