To the north end front porch drug dealers and roving packs of leering military trainees—go fuck yourselves (or each other please). You really should be arrested for the shit you say to me while I jog by. Next time imagine I’m your mom or your sister—have a self-aware moment, and realize you are representing the scum of the earth. When you’re alone, you say nothing. When you have a few shitheads with you, you get rapey. WTF? -Pissed Off
This article appears in May 22-28, 2014.
maybe they are the buzz cut wigger brigade and op thinks that means they are military.
or maybe they are.
if they are roving, leering and harassing they are not presenting well.
but I would bet they are just wiggers.
Sorry Ivan, Stad’s a hop skip and a jump from the north end so they’re probably among them. Also from what i’ve seen working with the navy, it was probably less the drug dealers and more the military (lasting dealers don’t draw police complaint like attention on themselves). Come on Ivan, just cause you’re a vet or… something doesn’t mean military can’t be assholes. There was probably a few wiggers tho, dem white boyz iz craaazy!
Not a vet, Haz. Just a wannabe. And you’re probably correct. Young men in groups can be assholes. “Single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints” is as true today as when Kipling wrote it but there’s never any excuse for harrassing somebody else. Sexual assault is as vile a crime when it’s committed by a member of the military as when by a fratboy, an anarchist or a sex slaver from Preston. In fact, when military people cross the line I take a harder line because,a) it IS vile, b)It’s a betrayal of the honourable men it’s been my privilege to know and c) it fuels the existing prejudices of those who dismiss all servicemen as brainwashed, rape crazed kill-bots. I’ve heard all the marxist-feminist horseshit rhetoric before (not saying that’s where you are coming from). I have no time for it.
So, I’ll repeat myself. I hope the Op stays safe. But she can stick her progressive bigotry where it will do most good.
I don’t see the bigotry in op’s comments. if the guys are military then saying they are military is identification, not bigotry.
being military doesn’t give them a pass.
‘representing scum of the earth’ makes no sense at all unless you read it as the street slang version of ‘representing’. instead of what us old folks would interpret it.
There is a specific subset of people for whom the word “military” is more than a mere identifier of occupation. In the same way that for some “black” is more than just an attempt to verbally describe skin tone. It evokes a whole universe of stereotypes, almost all of them negative. The nod, the wink, the sigh – “Oh one of those people. Well what can you expect…” Learn the code, the jargon, the catchphrases and you begin to see it for what it is. Even when you are wrong, you don’t bother caring anymore.
In this, I suppose I am much like my friend Bro Tim. If we occasionally defend our “tribe” past the point of reason, it’s because we have seen and heard so much absurdity spoken about ourselves and our lives, heard it go go unchallenged, by those who should know better.
So it goes.
gee whiz ivan, that sounds like what ‘feminazis’ say too
D’OH!
I so hate it when you’re right.
funny, I consider myself a little to the left.
actually I am a little to the right of ayn rand in some things and an anarchist for everything else.
for myself anyway. everyone else should be penned up.
Jesus, I’m like that indian guy on the big bag theory when it comes to talking to pretty ladies, I couldn’t imagine saying pervy things to a random stranger. I’m not immune to the beautiful shape of a nice ass in jogging pants, don’t get me wrong, I will check them out like most other guys. But to actually SAY something like that to another person is just weird and gross.
I’m a MAOist because when I ask The Countess to name the 20th century dictator who killed the most people she always gets it right.
Also, her favorite species of monkey is the “MA-CAAAQUE”
and her favorite CTV journalist is John Vennevally-“RAO”
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/lawson-vows-a…
The Canadian Military doesn’t condone sexual assault, but only when the rapists are not the men of the CFs and not done to women of the CF by said men of the CF..
Why so down on drug dealers? One of my favorite people is my weed dealer. Not just because he has weed, although that’s a part of it, but because he’s been a friend since my school days.
And for the record, as someone who served, the military is definitely not immune to the passing inappropriate comment or the catcall. I remember being thoroughly ashamed by some of the things the boys used to say when there was a group of us, especially when we were 8 beers deep in a buzz-on. Not every member of the forces is a “hero” or, for the matter, even a good person. There’s a well known military jail in Edmonton full of murderers, rapists, theives, drug dealers and everything in between and, there are lots more that haven’t been caught. Not to mention that soldier’s have been accused of some of the most disgusting torture/interrogation tactics ever thought of. To make a blanket statement that everyone in the military is some sort of morally superior person to revered by all is just nonsense!!!
Legitimate bitch for calling out these idiots although there were some generalizations going on here. A lone woman is not in a very good position to get into a verbal battle with these guys so this forum is a good place to let off some steam.
SHITMD: Col. Russel Williams. ’nuff said.
And how many civilians are rapists and serial killers? A hell of a lot more than what is in the CF. ’nuff said.
Blanket positive stereotypes are as inaccurate and intellectually wrong as blanket negative ones. But the negative stereotypes are a lot more toxic. Say “Somalia” and those who can remember will think of a 16 year old infiltrator tortured to death. They will think of entire regiment of neo-nazis and white supremacists, despite the fact that Matt McKay, the only confirmed neo-nazi in the Airborne had nothing to do with the killing of Shidane Arone. Despite the fact that Clayton Matchee, who actually did torture Arone was a full-blooded Cree from Saskatchewan. They’ll forget the fact that the whistle-blower, Kyle Brown (half aboriginal) served the most jail time at our detention barracks in Edmonton for taking part in the beating. They certainly will never have been told about the four soldiers who received our highest award for peacetime bravery for attempting to save a Somali woman from a shark attack. They will never have heard the story of the Airborne medic who labored to save and comfort a dying Somali child who was shredded while playing with one of his brother’s hand grenades, and whose mother dropped him at the Canadian compound and walked away. The school and clinic built by our soldiers in their “off-time” – forget it.
No, they aren’t all heroes. But when the OP asked her abusers to think of their mothers, sisters, daughters, All I could think of was someones Dad. Mine. And he is not scum of the earth
Nuff said.
THE “MILITARY CULTURE”
“To the north end font porch drug dealers and roving packs of leering military trainees – go fuck yourself (or each other please)”. Pissed Off
“On the other hand, tying military men in with drug dealers as representing scum of the earth tells me you are a cunt.” Ivan Sonofabitch (05/28, 1048AM)
“I do not accept from any quarter the notion that sexual misconduct is simply part of our military culture.” Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Tom Lawson (“Military sex assault review delay decried,” The Gazette, May 28, 2014)
General Lawson was replying to a parliamentary committee convened Tuesday to investigate “explosive allegations” made by l’Actualité and Maclean’s magazines that sexual assaults in the military were not being properly dealt with. Whether this is so or not is an empirical question but the more interesting one is philosophical, i.e., what is to be understood by the phrase “military culture.” What is its nature? What characteristics does it possess? I see several.
Tribal Exclusivity: Like any bonding group of males, whether a football team or an army, its members see themselves as belonging to an exclusive group which simultaneously demonizes their enemies while barring any criticism from any outsider as being ill-informed at best or mendacious and malevolent at worst. In the military culture no criticism of the tribe is permitted whether from without or within. Conformity is the watchword.
Misogyny: There is no female equivalent of that “band of brothers.” Females, by definition, are outliers, even those purportedly of the tribal in-group who are so only on sufferance, only in a diminished sense. For the military culture is nothing if not strongly traditional in its views of the opposite sex. The female does not fit the configuration of the military culture any more than it would a female football team. Female members of the military are an anomaly. Technically they are members of the in-group tribe but in reality they are not. Where not viewed with suspicion they – particularly outlier females – are viewed with contempt.
Aggression: Whether on the playing field or the battle field aggression is the order of the day. The culture of any bonding group of males arises directly as an aspect of that group’s purpose. In the case of the military that purpose is the winning of wars, whether offensive or defensive is irrelevant. A fundamental ingredient of the military culture is the primacy, even the glorification, of aggression, of force. Now in abeyance, smoldering beneath the surface, now in full fighting panoply, aggression and the military culture are two sides of the same coin. The military culture and aggression are correlative concepts.
Unquestioning Loyalty and Obedience: The military culture places all behaviour not reducible to loyalty and obedience to in-group orders as being beyond the realm of significance, even of interest. In other words, to be effective, the military culture demands unquestioning obedience. You must not criticize orders! You must be obedient! Your loyalty must be beyond reproach! Of course, those areas not falling under the imperatives of unquestioning loyalty and obedience – one thinks of the arts, of philosophy and the like – are considered effeminate and so little more than matters of ridicule. The military culture demands one-dimensionality among its members, a quality possessed in spades by those aspiring to membership in the tribe.
So Pissed Off was right to complain about the those roving bands of leering military trainees. They aspired to embody those qualities enshrined in the military culture. Of course, Ivan’s response to Pissed Off – “you are a cunt” – was itself entirely in conformity with the mentality of that military culture. The outlier female, it must be remembered, is is little more than an object of tribal contempt.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Cheerio!
Montrealman is still obviously in the throes of PTSD after being harrassed by some VanDoos lounging on the porch of a Longueil brownstone:
“Hey, Chollo, you wan buy some aqua velva?”
“Tabarnac, Esai, Je wan smell votre poonanny!”
The whippets boldly replied, Think of your regimental mascot, Batisse le Goat” as MM tearfully retreated to his home.
Keen-eyed readers who know me, will of course, recognize that in positing an alternate world where whippets speak, and francophone soldiers deal narcotics while speaking in the patois of a Latino street gang, I am employing some rather Swiftian satire and mean no disrespect to soldiers of one of the nations proudest and storied regiments.
Montrealman remains, a pants wetting girly-man, and probably a closet ginger, as well.
Thank you.
Maybe I’m just crazy for being so fearless (and maybe this is going to get me in trouble one of these days), but I’d probably just tell them to go fuck themselves, call them wankers and keep on jogging, no matter who they are.
That’s if I jogged, of course. LOL
I don’t really think that the fact that they are military give the cause for their piggish behaviour — it’s the pack mentality, which anyone is susceptible to having. Jog past a porch full of drunk boys by SMU or Dal and you might get the same thing, for example. Hell, look at what happens sometimes when teenage girls get together. That’s probably the only group I wouldn’t say shit to: nothing scarier than a pack of teenage girls.
People, for some reason, get more and more courage when they’re in a group setting and will sometimes do and say things they’d never have the balls to say and do on their own. Kind of like the courage some get to be assholes on the internet.
yes. kitty. any group gets ‘brave’. but you know what’s funny (not ha-ha funny unfortunately)
is that in general, groups people become braver about being assholes, but more cowardly about doing something good. a solitary person may stop to help someone, some creature in distress, but a pack of people turns a collective blind eye.
perhaps we should ban any gathering of more than 3.
and oh lord, those packs of teenage girls. brutal.
So tell ’em to suck your dick, OP.
Molly — it’s actually a psychological phenomena I read about in one of my psych courses. I can’t remember the name, but it basically says that the bigger the crowd, the less likely someone is to help when someone is in distress.
It’s fucked up.
I think if just ONE person steps up that others will follow. just one. bloody biblical sounding.
Kitty Genovese, 1964.
For women, I have a serious question. Is it more frightening being verbally harrassed by a group, or an individual? Which situation, both unacceptable, holds the higher risk. I have my own theory but I’d like to know yours.
RSVPS
: Ivan Sonofabitch (05/29, 11:31AM)
“Montrealman remains, a pants-wetting girly man, and probably a closet ginger as well.”
See my “Unquestioning Loyalty and Obedience” above, particularly in respect to what the military culture considers to be effeminate and the object of ridicule. Oh well, at least he didn’t call me a “cunt.”
: ‘Pretty Monstercock5000’ Kitty (12:52PM)
You are, of course, right about the “pack mentality” but the bitch was about the military, i.e., where that pack mentality is most commonly found. You must try and keep your eye on the ball. No, not their balls, just the ball.
: Good dog Molly (1:26PM)
Well yes, those packs of teenage girls can be brutal but that was never the issue. If you remember it was the military where very few packs of teenage girls are to be found. You must try to keep your eye on the ball. Since the packs of teenage girls have no balls this should not be a distraction for you.
: T.T. Fonebone (1:36PM)
“Pissed Off” is a female. She doesn’t have a dick. I think we’re losing the thread here completely.
: ‘Pretty Monstercock5000’ Kitty (2:04PM)
It would be helpful if you could remember the name psychological phenomenon but it is irrelevant to the matter at hand. Interesting but irrelevant.
: Good dog Molly (2:23PM)
Yes, it is rather biblical sounding but, unfortunately, beside the point.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
<<<< Good dog (digression! ) Molly aka Holden Caulfield's classmate, whose name I don't remember but whose faults I emulate
ivan, each category has it’s dangers.
most times, a group of cat-calling fellows can be dismissed as fairly innocuous. it depends on their WORDS. if its a lot of moaning, clutching their heads in agony and saying ‘oh baby you’re killing me’ as you walk by in your saucy little strapless number I wouldn’t get upset.
if they yell out “you stuck up cunt I’m gonna fuck you with my swiss army knife’ that’s entirely different.
a solitary guy who follows you into your apt elevator/laundry room whispering ‘hey hey’ is a VERY dangerous situation. the words seem harmless enough but his intent is awful. he is a predator.
a solitary guy in a crowded bar – the situation should be safe enough, but if he says ‘you stuck up cunt, what are you? a dyke’ is again, dangerous. he will try to follow you when you leave. he has RESENTMENT towards females.
I have found that so many guys who are quick to call themselves ‘nice guys’ are the worst. they seethe with resentment because they consider themselves nice if they don’t smack you around, and are furious if you don’t respond to that ‘nice treatment’.
actual ‘nice guys’ don’t toot their own horn. their words and actions speak. we have several examples here. and my boys of course. and my ex husbands, who are all peaches, every one.
RSVP
:Good Dog Molly (05/29, 4.02PM)
Does that mean I have escaped your wrath of thrashing me with your cane within inches of my life the next time you see me. For awhile there, I thought it best to sell all possessions and move to Tahiti to escape, hmm, wonder if they have internet there or shall I get my homing pigeons geared up.
I was just thinking about you my dear. trying to find a suitable punishment for all your hair comments lately. I swear I have lost even more. i would sprinkle flour ’round my bed to try to catch your footprints stealing my remaining hairs to add to your own luxurious locks but i fear someone would make that damned ‘wet spot’ joke.
Wow, really hit a nerve with Bro Tim and Ivan… I’m sure your friends/relatives in the forces are great people. My grandfather is an upstanding guy and he is a retired sailor. He’s pretty much my hero. But I grew up on military bases and can certainly say that in my experience, a lot of the soldiers are assholes. A LOT of domestic violence and violence in general. PMQs are like glorified trailer parks.
“And how many civilians are rapists and serial killers? A hell of a lot more than what is in the CF.” Well given the fact that only a fraction of the Canadian population are members of the forces, I would say that is an accurate statement. But it’s also a very misleading one.
And just for the fuckin hell of it…nuff said.
By the way I have nothing against military personelle. But I don’t hold them to the same, almost super-human, regard as the two of you do. I have much more respect for military men and women than I do for police officers – by a LONG shot.
You need to work on your upper body – honey, you got a set of 5 lb dumbells to take on your jaunt? I takes a setta concrete bricks wit me. If any dem mafuckas step outta line, hoist a brick to dey gums.
Like I said, I tend to overcompensate, because of all the horse shit I’ve heard over the years. Doesn’t mean the lousy ones get a pass. Clayton Matchee and Russell Williams can suck cocks in hell. And I know exactly what you mean about P.M.Q.s The little base I lived on in Grade 12 and Uni was a regular goddamned Peyton Place. A couple of young soldiers had a tidy little drug-dealing operation going and dealt to most of the base youth. Parties at their P.M.Q.,underage drinking, underage sex. – (AND I WASN’T INVITED – CAN YA BELIEVE IT!) At least one Senior N.C.O. had to listen as his beneath the age of consent daughter gave a statement about her activities and her most pertinent concern was that whichever soldier she was banging pull out prior to ejaculation. The lone M.P. Sergeant fancied himself a regular Popeye Doyle. He caught one of the base teens in a compromising activity (embarrassing but not illegal) and then tried to recruit him as a C.I. Frig, I was never so glad to get out of there.
So, I’ll own up to over-reacting to the original bitch and possibly reading more into it than was intended, but I’ll leave with another Kipling reference –
“We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you”
’nuff said, mos def >: )
Thanks Molly – pretty much what I was thinking. A group of harassers could just be a pack of self-reinforcing morons, arseing around for their own benefit without thought for the effect on the unwilling target. But, then again, a group can turn on a very ugly dime and do something truly hideous.
The lone harasser, especial if removed from a social situation is even more terrifying, because he has already crossed the line of unacceptable conduct.
Glad I’m one of those “nice guys” who occasionally acts just dickish enough so people know I’m not just putting it on.
Montrealman – I would have called you the c-word but then my comment would have been expunged and I would have a sad.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2…
PK & GDM it’s called Diffusion of Responsibility.
I’m on my out the door so I’ll post a proper reply later.
Don’t worry Loulou, I’ll deal with you too.
RSVP
:Good Dog Molly (05/29, 4.57PM)
I’m beginning to think that I should modify a chastity belt to put on my head to protect my hair from wayward scissors that may relieve me of my beautiful tresses and locks before we meet again. In the meantime, I think of this song when it comes to my locks. The fleas have to have some place to live
youtu.be/u9sXoUhXobE
basil, excellent article and the comments are enlightening. in so many ways.
thanks hugo, I recall that now. looking forward to your reply on that
ivan/mm do I have to stop calling people wieners?
klyde…or boll weevils???
RSVP
: Ivan Sonofabitch (10:00AM)
You might be right about the unconscious part as just this morning on my Philosophy of Education Blog I was in the process of engaging one Morwenna Griffiths of the University of Edinburgh on the issue of what I have called “The New Feminism”.
She chaired a special edition of The Journal of Philosophy of Education of Great Britain (May, 2014) entitled “Re-Imagining Relationships in Education: Ethics, Politics and Practices” in which she shamelessly hijacked Rousseau’s “Emile” in the service of her hidden agenda, that of advancing “The New Feminism” which, unlike the old variety which sought to raise up the female to be the equal of the male on the basis of purported “masculinist” criteria – rationalism, individual autonomy, and so on – now seeks to establish a feminist identity on the grounds of a feminist construction of “educational relationships”.
I will certainly take your counsel under advisement.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
You must have scored some serious ontological points against the lovely and fragrant Miss Griffiths.
She appears to have had our previous comments bowdlerized.
they let my ‘wiener’ stand.
Cue: Mr. Meaty does amusing double take.
I was wondering who would be first to bite at that dangling bit there.
RSVP
: Ivan Sonofabitch (05/30, 6:12PM)
So it seems, but she missed my quoting your introducing the term on this thread in the run-up to my masterful “The ‘Military Culture'” (Montrealman 05/29, 10:05AM).
Do you think Morwenna will rectify the oversight?
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Well, as long as she doesn’t tamper with the post where I outed you as a pants-wetting, girly man and closeted ginger, then academic freedom will continue to reign.
You really should take Klyde up on his offer to go for coffee. He’s a very nice gentleman and not the sort to take undue liberties with a retired academic.
It’s not him I was worried about.
RSVP
:Montrealman (05/31, 2.50PM)
” It’s not him I was worried about”
I’m sitting here thinking just what could that statement mean. Is there an underlying cause for such concern? Should that statement be of concern to me that I should be wary of MM? NAH, I can hold my own.
Could it be that it would be an overwhelming experience for MM sipping away on exquisite java as he sits next to a golden haired Adonis that turns people’s eyes, out of pure admiration or simple jealousy. A little of both I believe.
Or could it be that all sensible conversations would take a back seat to having our eyes (Marty Feldman style)bulging out from our heads as we have mental meltdowns from mind’s eyeing magnificent labia. Surely I’m of the opinion that it would be a win-win situation in any scenario, albeit a little red-faced on our parts.
The fact that I’m typing away is proof that having coffee with Ivan was not only a pleasure but his words of wisdom had merit to say that cannibalism is now just a fact of history. We have evolved from the ancient rituals of head hunting Borneo tribes to become somewhat civilized until one walks along SGR and see that a few still remain and we have to revisit our philosophy on that matter. Where did we go wrong with society to still have them here? Are there any remedies we can do to reintegrate the bums and hipsters into mainstream society and be productive members again? Is that even possible?
I now turn the keyboard over to you MM as I smell coffee brewing at Timmie’s.
Although they made it to final 4 and lost I still say ” GO HABS GO”
RSVP
: Klyde (06/01, 7:10AM)
Let me reply to your thoughtful points seriatim:
1. I can confidently state that there is no reason to be wary of me but I’m not so sure of Ivan. However, if you lock the washroom door on entering, I think you might succeed in avoiding his unwanted, lewd attentions.
2. Yes, you’re right, it’s combination of both.
3. I’m not sure about your claim that we would have “mental meltdowns” from mind’s eyeing magnificent labia. The phrase suggests an admixture of lust which, in my case at least, is misplaced since I view them purely as objects of reflective, aesthetic contemplation. This, of course, may not be the same in your case.
4. I found your assertion to the effect that Ivan’s claim that “cannibalism is now just a fact of history” constituted “words of wisdom” odd. Why are they words of wisdom? Far from offering any insight into a form of social practice, the claim is trivial to the point of being completely empty. One might make the case that the same applies to Ivan himself.
In the same way, I found your connection between the ancient rituals of headhunting Borneo tribes, on the one hand, and the bums and hipsters on SGR on the other, elusive. It was not compelling. Of course, I could be missing something since it has been some time since I last encountered the bums and hipsters on SGR. Have they become more aggressive, more violent and given themselves over to headhunting and cannibalism? If that is so, why don’t you try to convince Ivan to soon take a stroll down SGR?
However, your question as to what to do with them is apt. In my view, Ivan should be sent out to confront them with his “words of wisdom.” Only then will there be any hope of reintegrating them into mainstream society and be productive members once again.
GO KINGS GO!
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Klyde, my brother, that is some of the best writing I have seen here. You, sir, are a steely eyed missile-man and have earned thr right to fill your boots with good German beer in the halls of Valhalla.
MM really doesn’t know what he’s missing.
Coming back from Barstucks this morning I heard a very familiar turboprop drone, high up in the sky, looked up and saw a pair of C-130 Herkybirds, which made me think of this vid.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Ikj1hZDnw
Happy Sunday everyone – A glorious day for a Summit.
RSVP
:Ivan Sonofabitch (06/01, 10.15AM)
That video was deeply touching and heartfelt, caused a tear to shed watching. I can’t stress enough of the importance for all to stand behind those that serve for our country and to honor those that died to protect our freedoms that we sometimes take for granted.
Do they serve Tim’s finest java in the halls of Valhalla?