It’s not just that you had an affair. You betrayed me on so many levels.
You lied constantly. You treated me like dirt in order to rationalize your behavior. You risked exposing me and my baby to STDs (you will never know how humiliating it is to have a male technician give you an AIDS test when you’re 8 months pregnant). You put me in the position that I not only had to listen to your girlfriend cry and rant over the phone, but I had to listen to your family tell me that it was my fault, as I obviously wasn’t taking care of your needs (insensitive idiots, how are they going to say that to a woman who just had a baby). I was forced to swallow my pride and beg for social assistance, because you encouraged me into quitting my 35k a year job the year before to stay home with the children until they started school.
You made me look like the bad person to our kids, because I am the one who packed them up and turned their lives upside down. And, you told them what you did and that you were so sorry, and that I wouldn’t forgive you. I think that this was more selfish than having an affair. How could you put that on children who have been hurt enough, just so you can once again get what YOU want.
And, we’re not talking about a mistake here. A simple one nighter. You left me to handle our family alone all year while you fucked around. And for what? Not for love, that’s for sure. You dumped her immediately in order to work on getting me back. You shouldn’t have bothered. I do not want someone who lacks in character. You are disloyal, dishonorable, a liar, a cheat, weak and selfish. If you really cared about me, you would stop causing me pain and respect that it is over.
Have you not learned anything? Put aside YOUR needs for once. That is what got you into trouble in the first place. Your children want and need you. They have forgiven you, and they still love you. Stop disregarding them except when it suits your needs. If you were really the changed person that you proclaim yourself to be, you would pay your child support so your children would no longer have to live in poverty.
—The one who is still paying the price for your mistake
This article appears in Sep 17-23, 2009.
I hope evrything works out for you an your kids. you seem like a great mom and I hope that he smartens up and does the right thing. Keep on keeping on.
A family destroyed by the man’s inability to appreciate what he has until he throws it away. It happens so often that it has become a cliche. But, regardless of how many times we have heard this story, we should not be insensitive to their pain. It is like kicking them in the teeth when they are down. It is adding insult on top injury.
Yes, I am talking about the tag.
You didn’t pick up on this man’s vibe before you had the babies? I’ve seen this a million times before and the ones who ultimately pay are the children. Why would you let anyone talk you out of giving up a $35,000 a year job? Your earnings are your independence and I would say you made some pretty bad choices here – you bought the bullshit and now the public’s tax money is paying to support you. Do yourself a favour and get back into the workforce if you can and make this fucking prick financially responsible for the fruit of his loins.
I wish you all the best now that you’ve gotten rid of the “cancer” in your midst. You and your children will come out of this ok in time, but he will just keep spiraling downward. Live and learn, but depend only on yourself in the future :).
TTFN what rock did you crawl out from under?
No rock – I’ve lived long enough to know that everyone has choices and, unfortunately, some people make stupid ones and having children with a dud is one of them. There’s two sides to every story and we have one. What about the other side or are we supposed to take every word the OP has written as gospel truth? I find that situations like this are not cut and dried, often it takes two people to mess up a relationship – it’s the kids I pity – the repercussions of this will last a lifetime.
TTFN, There may be two sides to this story, but his side is still in the WRONG. Instead of blaming her for him cheating on her, he should have just left her and started a relationship with someone else. You dont say “It’s your fault I cheated” because the fault lies ONLY with the cheater. If she wasnt enough, he should have moved on and supported his children financially like a grown man, not string her along like a juvenile who wants his cake and everyone elses too. Her choices were to trust a man she loved, thats not stupid. We cant all have super spidey senses like you.
I don’t have spidey sense, I have many years of observation and this is simply an opinion and not written in stone. Yeah, I feel sorry for this OP to a point because we all get sucked in by people at one time to another. Giving up her income was just plain fucking stupid, no matter if cheater boy was the nicest guy on earth. I dropped three zygots and never once thought about quitting work because, from a young age, I knew never to take anything for granted, especially other people. I saw my aunt left penniless with four young boys and no insurance when her hubby dropped dead at 45. It was a lesson in learning to be self-sufficent that I never forgot.
TTFN, I normally love your comments but I think you sound especially bitter and nasty on this one. So…we’re all supposed to be adept at predicting if, when and under what circumstances our relationships will end, huh? And if we don’t, we’re fools? At your age you really oughta know that even for a good judge of charecter, it’s not always possible to predict if and when someone will dissapoint you in life. I seem to remember numerous comments by you TTFN, slamming some of your own exes. Whie you were at it, why didn’t you bother to inform us of your own mistakes in those relationships??? Maybe there are two sides to this story, but for me, the OP’s ex’s side is automatically cancelled out because nobody who sinks low enough to use their kids as pawns in a war between grown-ups is worth listening to.
I made lots of mistakes but quitting a good paying job wasn’t one of them. If I sound bitter, it’s only because there’s one more welfare mother I (and you) have to pay for.
Definitely two sides to the story and we are only hearing this woman’s obviously very biased, likely exaggerated, and angry side to it. There is likely at least several years of a story here, yet we are only seeing this one part and one side neatly wrapped up into five paragraphs, with several posters already drawing definite conclusions (ohh yes, of course it’s just another example of how horrible us men are. How convenient). Of course he was in the wrong for cheating and it sounds like he was not a good person at all, but who knows what she was doing, too. Who knows what stress he was under and what may have pushed him. It seems that whenever it’s the other way around and a woman cheats, people tend to feel sympathy for her because the guy must have been doing something wrong, he wasn’t fulfilling her emotional needs, he was a bad person, she’s the real victim, etc. etc., but whenever a man cheats, he’s a complete jerk who should be shot (which may very well be true, mind you). He will get absolutely no sympathy and no one to ever consider his side of the story. Gotta love these double standards – basically, if you’re a guy, you will ALWAYS be in the wrong!
What you say is sadly true, qpmzwonxeibcruv, I’ve seen so many of my male buddies demonized by crazy women who appeared like fucking angels in court. I’ve known men who cheated because their wives hated sex and, to be honest, I can’t fucking blame them. Of course, it all works both ways. I’d rather hear both sides of the story than just take OP’s post at face value. What would Mr. Cheater say?
He sounds like a sex addict. Go look it up. These people are crazy cunning. There’s usually almost no signs until things have been going on past the point of no return.
And Gawd help ya if you side with the guy! Hey, it doesn’t matter if this woman was nuts, emotionally fucked up or just a plain bitch to live with. You’ll be torn limb by limb by the feminist police and your pieces distributed to the crows. Playing devil’s advocate is risky business.
If you aren’t happy in a relationship then have the balls or the titties or whatever appendage you need to just leave BEFORE you cheat. There is no valid reason or excuse to cheat, no matter how shitty your partner is. Any guy or girl who wants to cheat, for whatever reason, is an immature selfish coward if they don’t break things off with the other person first.
Miles, I’m not saying that there is ever a good reason to cheat, but I think you are oversimplifying a little bit. Things are very rarely black and white.
Especially when children are involved.
I think TTFN is right on the money here.
I feel very, very sorry for the OP left in this terrible situation, and I sincerely hope that she can get her family life back to some semblance of stability, but I have to say, in 2009, it frustrates me to no end that stuff like this still goes on.
I don’t believe in demonizing either men or women, but this is a classic case of:
1. One person (in this case the guy) ignorant of the LIFETIME COMMITTMENT involved in caring for children. Sorry “deadbeat dad”, children have RIGHTS that supersede any and all of your “feelings.” You are responsible for being the kids’ dad FOREVER, regardless of how you feel about it.
2. The other person (in this case the girl) was too blind to see all the signs in advance. While I know that SOME people do change for the worse after marriage and kids, most assholes (and bitches) are CLEARLY recognizable from the get-go. And we girls are often all too willing to be “charmed” by jerks and losers we think are “fun” or “dangerous.”
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen women throwing thenselves at and pining over the worst asshole guys, and paying no attention to all the nice, decent guys who have no time or energy to compete with all that bullshit.
I wonder how many of this girl’s friends/family told her the guy was an asshole BEFORE she got into this doomed relationship. And how many times did this girl “defend” the guy with all the usual excuses? [ “He’s really a great guy, you just don’t understand him, I am the only one who can love him . . .” blah blah blah.
It IS the responsiblity of women to choose NOT reward asshole behaviour by having relationships with—and HAVING CHILDREN WITH—immature and idiotic guys who have no sense of what love, commitment and responsibility—in other words being a MAN—is all about.
And for God’s sake ladies—don’t even THINK about walking away from a high-paying job. If you must work part-time, then fine, but don’t disappear completely from the workforce in this day and age with good jobs so hard to come by.
I think the OP has a right to be pissed.
* 8 mths prego and had to take a std test = pissed
* family blaming her for not taking care of his need after giving birth = pissed
* having to start over, on welfare (she don’t sound happy about that), alone with kids = pissed
* having the kids manipulated into thinking its her fault = pissed
* not sure why she didn’t just hang up on the girlfriend, but girlfriend calling the house = pissed
He might have had his reasons for doing what he did but she has a right to be pissed.
Jennier, I don’t think I am oversimplifying. I understand that there are “grey” areas when it comes to infidelity…in fact, I would argue it’s all grey area. However, cheating on people is something that teenagers with no relationship experience do. I expect adults to behave differently. If not, they are, as I said, immature, selfish and cowardly. Give me a reason or example where someone who cheats is not at least one of these three by not telling their partner before they cheat.
Now, I’m not saying cheaters are evil or anything, and I’m not saying that it’s an unforgivable act. What I am saying is that people most often cheat when there are fundamental problems with a relationship. Instead of dealing with those problems like grown-ups they create more problems by cheating.
In regards to cheaters. If they cheated in a previous relationship, the chances are they’ll cheat in yours.
I think its funny when someone who helpped to brake up a relationship by sleeping with a married person gets so upset when it that person cheats on them. what did they expect. lol
It doesn’t sound like OP is the type to make excuses for or defend a guy who turns out to be an asshole. Nor does she sound like a woman blinded by love. If she were this type, she would have forgiven him. I mean, in the long run, it would have made her life easier to give into the pressure from family, kids and society in general. It seems that she refused the easier life, because it was more important to have stability (in the long run).
Also, she was fairly controlled and civilized in spite of the immense hurt and anger that she must feel, so I don’t think that she is some bitch who deserves the shabby treatment she got. I mean, I think that she could have really tore him up, but she stayed focused, for the most part, in order to make him see that he is still not being responsible.
If we give him the benefit of doubt, we could assume that he wanted her to stay home with the kids for their benefit. But, in light of the fact that he had been cheating almost since she agreed to stay home, it seems more likely that he did it so he would not have to be tied down with the kid stuff. How could she know this? She doesn’t say anything negative about him in any other context except that he is selfish–to the point that he manipulates to get what he wants, even after he already learned that such behaviour hurt others.
As well, obviously she paid into her taxes, just like everyone else. That she had to eventually use the resources that her taxes went to is unfortunate, but that IS why she paid them. Are you telling me that you will not use U.I. or disability if you lose your job or get sick?
HKM…men don’t have a monopoly on that sort of behavior, seems to be pretty evenly spread out amongst the sexes. Idiots abound in all walks of life and wearing every type of shoe.
I agree, DER. I am noticing more and more fathers raising their families alone. The ‘Me’ generation was aptly named, it appears.
OP: I sincerely empathize with you and hope that it all works out for you in the long run. From the way you composed your bitch, you seem like a very intelligent woman (despite leaving a $35k/yr job) who was treated very poorly and deserves better. I hope that you get all the support you need to raise your kids and teach them how to be good people. Whatever you do though, please don’t turn into one of those evil mothers who use their kids to hurt their ex the way their ex hurt them.
RubyJane: You make some very good points and from my own observations I can tell you this. Guys want a girl who is a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom. Girls want a guy who is a badboy in public but sensitive and sweet at home. It’s a paradox that leads to countless bad relationships and break-ups. But, people are people and that is one fact that will never change.
I really don’t care who screwed who, who caused what, or he said/ she said…means SWEET F^(# ALL !
What really is unbelievable is you haven’t dragged his sorry ass into court & got your children the money THEY ARE OWED ! That’s the real problem here…the KIDS & they’re doing without. I know a dead beat dad who I work with & he was laughing about it last year…he stopped laughing when they showed up & took his license. He really lost his smug grin…when they refused to allow him to get his license renewed when he started paying…until he paid all of the back money owed .
You say your children are supposedly important to you, or was that B.S. ?
If they are important & you are actually getting or trying to get assistance, those people will help you & they’ll be happy to shove a barbed wire broom handle right up his pooper, ok it won’t be physically painful but they will garnish his wages, seize his license & if he continues to be an ass long enough they’ll put him away to “help clarify his thoughts”
So you can still have a happy ending, you just have to be telling the truth & he’s screwed !
It just takes a bit of time & if you really care about your children, call tomorrow.
HKM, my dad was one of those single fathers who had to raise my sister and me on his own after my mom went a bit wacky. As a single father, he received absolutely no support and was actually criticized by many people for “stealing” us from my mom, apparently our “rightful owner,” even though she was in absolutely no state to look after even herself let alone kids. He was completely disowned by Mom’s family who still hold a grudge against him to this very day despite even Mom being able to understand and forgive him. There was even a newspaper article written about our family situation, claiming that the family court system is systematically biased and sexist against women because of this one case where the father got custody rather than the mother. This was also while he was struggling with a small business of his own and minimal family support as most of his family lived in other parts of the country (in addition to having to deal with the hatred of Mom’s side of the family who mostly live here). Yet, unlike a lot of single moms, he didn’t play victim whining and complaining about how horribly unfair life was for him and his family because of my mom. He just got on with raising us like he was supposed to. Anyway, I suppose everyone has their side of the story and every situation is different, but that’s my experience for the record.
PS: Nothing against my mom by the way, I love both my parents and think they’re great, just in very different ways.
It is a heartbreaking situation, really.
Upon re-reading the original letter, I think the rest of the guy’s family sounds absolutely psycho—THEY are the ones defending and making excuses for some asshole abandoning his wife and children.
I did not mean to hurt your feelings, OP, I hope you will forgive me.
But I do think that you should get every penny of support your children are owed, and sever all contact with that asshole ex and his inbred family as soon as possible, and start rebuilding a good life for yourself surrounded by people who know how to love and support family and friends.
Doesn’t matter now many times you read her post, it was written for readers to see only the bad of the father. Did you notice that she takes no fault whatsoever?
I wonder what would have happened if she left the children in the care of the father, while she got on her feet and not subjected them to poverty. Maybe it wasn’t an option, I don’t know, but I doubt we’ll hear his perspective. For all we know she could have emotionally left the relationship long before he stepped out.
TTFN, I wouldn’t ever let someone convince me to give up my well-paying job either; if she was going to do it, it should only have been because it felt like the right thing for her- not her husband. It was a huge personal decision she she should never have allowed someone else to make. But at the same time, people DO leave well-paying jobs in order to take care of their children- that’s not irresponsible unless you can’t afford to do it. What makes you think the OP is on the dole, anyway? I’m gave up my own well-paying job to stay home with my baby right now and I’m not sponging off anybody. I plan on keeping it this way until he’s 3, at which point he can begin daycare and I can go back to work part-time…until he’s school age, at which point I’ll return full-time. What’s so wrong with that?
I hope the best for the OP, hope she can regain her independence through work and learns something from this whole sordid experience – NEVER DEPEND ON ANYONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF. I was married to a cheater myself but I always had my own bank account ‘just in case’. And did it come in handy when we split. I’ll betcha, however, you won’t get suckered like this again. Unless you need a man to complete your life. Complete your relationship with yourself first and all good things will follow.
Hey, Ruby Jane, you said it so much better than I could. Kudos to you with the tip of my imaginery top hat.
Balls,
The post is written by a person who was betrayed by another person. It is about that other person still acting in the same way that caused the first person to be hurt. It just so happens that there are children involved, and the first person is trying to protect the children. I mean, isn’t she basically saying, go live your life, but don’t forget that you still have a responsibility. (All to often it is all or nothing for some people–if they cannot have the adult relationship, they don’t want the rest of it.) As More said, who did what to who for whatever reason is not the point anymore (unless it is still happening). The point is that the father does have a responsibility to his children–both their mental and physical well-being must be looked to, even if that means that sacrifices must be made. The father is not sacrificing anything. He is still doing what suits his needs.
It sounds as if they have already been to family court, as she said that he needs to pay his child support. It sound like they would not be living in poverty if he would honor his part of the agreement. I mean, his payments would be based on his income after his (reasonable) expenses, and he would have signed an agreement, so unless he lost his job, everything still holds the same. She would budget according to what he pays so that she can make the money cover all of the needs of the children. If he skips a payment, she cannot pay the bills or buy groceries. Then she must, once again, apply to assistance, and that takes time, I would assume. Especially if he stalls her saying that he will be sending it. Meanwhile, the groceries are depleting and bills are stacking up. It is a very stressful situation on top of the responsibility of raising a family alone. But, she is not just talking about money here. She is talking about the children’s emotional well-being. She is trying to make him see that he is doing to the children what he did to her. She learned that it was folly to entrust her emotions to him, but the children do not have that ability–yet. She is warning him, so I doubt that she is slandering him to her children. It sounds like she wants him to change so that the children can benefit from their father’s love and attention.
Also, if the father had no problem with losing her 35k a year job, then they must have been in the financial position to afford to support their family on his income. That they are no longer together only changes things financially when it must be consider that he needs to also pay for additional accommodations. Outside of that, his responsibilities remain exactly the same. It seems that it is hard for the person who is not knee deep in kids to remember this.
TTFN, you are recommending that she never trust her partner fully again. I suspect that you are right, unfortunately. Between being consume by the needs of the children and being burned by her partner, I suspect she won’t be rushing into to a new relationship anytime soon.
TTFN callin’ it how it is… love that!
“beg for social assistance”.. that didn’t happen.
The OP doesn’t tell us how the relationship began but $10 says she was on the giving end of his infidelity at that time. Live and learn… it takes a whole lot of TESTOSTERONE and a willing partner to make a man want to screw around. That and his experience with honesty and fidelity. Perhaps wedding vows taken BEFORE dipping the stick isn’t such a bad thing, eh? If they were married, this bitch would read all together different.
Kay, it only makes that sense that we think with whatever is in our heads. Generally, what is in our heads comes from our own experience (whether it be from real life or what we have accepted as true through reading or listening). That you have decided (from all of the possibilities) that she cheated with a cheater in order to get him in the first place makes me suspect that you are speaking from experience. (I mean, this thought never occurred to me.) First, not every one is like you. Second, not everyone thinks like you. Third, this is what people mean when they ask you to step outside of the box. The box being your limited mind which binds you, so that you are unable to understand anything about others that is not within your own experience. It would be better for you simply to say, ‘I don’t know why that happened’ or, at least, for you to assume the best, then for you to make such nasty assumptions. Your blanket statements are hurtful, generally, and they are certainly rarely helpful. And, it makes you appear intellectually stunted and unkind.
As well, regardless of whether a paper was signed or not, as far as I am concerned (and Canadian law is concerned), as soon as they made a commitment to each other and, especially, started their family together, they were just as married as any paper stating that they were married could proclaim. The existence or not of any paper would not make any this situation read any differently. Most couples that do not marry but do live a married life do it this way for financial reasons. It used to be more feasible (tax wise) to not marry. Which is not to say that they did not marry, only that, it doesn’t make a difference here. You have to ask yourself why you even brought this up (when no one else did).
An AIDS test is a simple blood test. What’s so embarrassing about that? The technician probably didn’t even look at the requisition form to see what it was for…
You may be right, Jennie. But, that she felt this way only emphasizes her humiliation at being forced into such a position. I mean, STDs are generally associated with sexually promiscuous people. That she had to be tested put her into the position of being judged accordingly–whether it was fair or not. Yet, she put herself in that position, regardless of her discomfort, in order to insure that her unborn baby was not endangered by her partner’s promiscuous behaviour.
This, by the way, shows that her partner did not run around because he was not ‘getting any’. Not only did he impregnate her within the time span of his affair, but they must have been still having sex or else she would not have felt the need to put herself through a series of humiliating (to her) STD tests.
It’s actually routine to screen ALL pregnant women for STDs. It’s not to be judgemental, it’s to make sure if the mother does have something it doesn’t get passed on to the baby during birth.
It’s nothing to be embarrassed about.
HKM, your thinking is WRONG WRONG WRONG on this one. I’m usually the one encouraging bitches to “think outside the box.” I agree presumption is usually the enemy however, and you’re right, within my own experience people who accuse you of stealing (and you didn’t) are themselves thieves. People who accuse you of cheating (and you didn’t) are themselves cheating. People who think you are lying (and you are not) are typically grand liars themselves. So it’s not such a leap to think the cheater has been cheating and lying his whole adult life and it’s rather comical, even likely, to correctly surmise the OP was once his ‘mistress’. At risk of showing my age… the leopard doesn’t change it’s spots.
Here’s a good one.. I brought up marriage while nobody else did because… of the tiny box I live in? Give your head a shake, HKM. You’re being obtuse. Badly.
I brought up the marriage factor because marriage is NOT a piece of paper. Marriage is an institution and a public event. Most of us who make promises with the community looking on will stick to those promises within the same supportive community. Not always, obviously, but “marriage” versus “boyfriend” are two different animals. Ask anybody who’s avoided walking down the isle but still enjoys a “significant other” and have children result from the relationship. Ask the children how different marriage is when compared to a boyfriend they happen to call Dad.
FYI a married couple pays LESS taxes than two individuals. Care to do the math again?
It’s only one perspective we’re reading.
“first person is trying to protect the children.” Maybe she isn’t the best mom and he is trying to get them out of that situation.
“The father is not sacrificing anything. “ You know that, or is that what you read from her post.
“It sounds as if they have already been to family court” I question that.
“She is trying to make him see that he is doing to the children what he did to her.” So if she had left the children in care of the father she would have lost her pawns.
“he needs to also pay for additional accommodations.” I highly doubt it’s as easy as you make it seem. He would still have the same bills to pay but you don’t know if they were saving the same amount as the second roof would cost.
Maybe she was only after his money from the beginning.
She’s a grown woman airing her dirty laundry on a bitch web site. For all we know he could be going for full custody of the children soon, and she is being coached to play the victim role.
It’s a one sided view, but feel free to continue to man bash HKM.
Oh, and Kay, ‘beg for social assistance’ is how she perceived it. Obviously she was not happy about having to ask for financial help–especially since her partner could afford to support the children before she left him. I assume she feels, financially, his obligations are the same, and that she should not have to ask for the tax payers help.
It also appears that she is saying that since she has a newborn and now no maternity leave to depend on, she IS dependent on him. I suspect that she will put the kids in daycare and find another job as soon as she can, regardless of the reasons that made her put aside her job to opt for the children in the first place. I mean, it may be better for the children for her to raise them herself for the first 5 years, instead of strangers doing it for her, but the immediate need of her children (shelter and food) is more pressing.
‘beg for social assistance’… this phrase alone tells us how much of the rest of the story is exaggerated. Since she’s qualified for social assistance she won’t even have to pony up for a lawyer to deal with support issues and the child support gained will go to reduce her monthly benefit. My advice to the OP is to date another kind of man during her “self improvement” years sucking on the welfare tit and see if she can’t emerge lucky or educated rather than chasing yet another baby-daddy and teaching her children to do the same.
Food for thought… I’ll bet the concept of marriage is more appealing to the OP now that there’s no “alimony” to pursue from her not-husband and the support awarded will be based on his income, or lack of it.
Kay wrote: “Marriage is an institution and a public event. Most of us who make promises with the community looking on will stick to those promises within the same supportive community.”
Are you on drugs? Have you not read the statistics on divorce? While not every divorce is the subject of infidelity, many are. Just because YOU abide by your vows and believe marriage to be important doesn’t mean other people do. That’s sad to say and I wish it was different but c’mon… be realistic. If this couple was married the situation would be different…as in, they would be filing for divorce. P.S. I have family members who have been together for over ten years, never married, kids involved and they couldn’t be happier.
I agree that there are two sides to every story and we have only heard one which in my opinion is biased based on the high level of emotion involved. Given that, this doesn’t discount the simplistic version of the story:
They have kids together and he cheated and now she’s struggling. Regardless of who is at fault, I think we should all be sympathetic to the kids who have had no say in the matter but will be dramatically effected by the choices of their parents.
Kay, is English your first language? I mean, you don’t seem to read very well. The ‘thinking outside of the box’ point was in a whole different argument (and paragraph).
And Balls, what is with the whole, maybe this and maybe that thing. If she is saying, we have a family, and regardless of what has happened, you have to continue to care for them, then there is no need to create all of the scenarios that you are creating. Your arguments are moot. The bottom line is:
Be responsible for your children. (There should be no arguments here.)
That she used a public forum to say this, I presume, simply means that she wanted to warn others and/or that she wanted to send all deadbeat/separated parents a message. Whether she is supported or not with her personal side of the story, the message is still clear:
Be responsible for your children.
I actually agree to an extent with TTFN on this one – maybe its just the way I was raised, but I would never put myself in a situation where I couldn’t “afford” to leave … I also wouldn’t have 3 kids based on the assumption that my husband and I would “always be together” if I knew that I couldn’t provide for them myself. Sadly, this type of thing happens all of the time, and while the OP has certainly been wronged in the worst way, IMO she didn’t do enought to cover her ass before she got into the marriage. That being said, I hope she takes him the cleaners for every cent he owes in support to those kids.
By “think outside the box” Kay means “think inside my box”.
I, for one, don’t want to be inside Kay’s box.
HKM, there you go being obtuse again. You’re really good at it *rolls eyes*
“Dead beat dad,” that’s the guy who doesn’t pay child support. Where does it say that in the OP? It doesn’t. Better reel in the box-size. It ain’t workin’ for ya. And obviously English is not YOUR first language since you felt compelled to ask me. See how that works, HKM? Like magic.
Easy Going Gal, if marriage isn’t “all that” then why are gays trying so hard for their right to do it? One does not have to be “on drugs” to know motive has everything to do with the success of marriage. We used to force our children to marry if they were caught having sex or worse, conceived a child. We did this thinking about security for the new babies. We used to prearrange spouses for our children. Add those motives to the stats on divorce rate and what you have left are people who married each other because they wanted to announce and gain public support for their intentions, similar to the motives of the gay community toward marriage. Put that in your pipe.
Wait…that sounds dirty. I take that back.
Also, What’s wrong with one person in a partnership quitting work to stay home and raise kids? As long as it’s what the person quitting work wants to do, it makes sense to me. At lest until the kids are in school and you can go back to work part time or whatever. Parenting is a full-time job on its own and I think we’d be better off if more people took the time to do it right.
You just nailed it on the head, Miles. Parenting IS a full time job and one parent SHOULD stay home to raise the babies. Marriage is a very good foundation for making such decisions. The lack of marriage in making these same decisions results in exactly this bitch, “He lied to me and now I’m screwed.” At least you’ve got the lie in writing in the form of a marriage certificate and all the privileges that go with it should you keep your legs shut until the promises become facts.
You know, I rarely respond to Kay. It seems a waste of time and energy. As well, I truly suspect that Kay is not a real person, nor is the person who writes through her a woman. Yet, the opinions expressed by Kay can be useful. I mean, she is like a human’s most negative alter-ego. She can be depended on to express the shittiest possible thought. I think that when many people see their worst thought expressed through Kay, it enables them to reject it and to make the response that they do make much more thought out, fair and kind.
So, I guess that I have to say, ‘Thanks Kay’ (whoever and whatever you are). But, that does not mean that I will continue to waste my time.
By the way, arguing with Kay is like arguing with Life Sucks. I wonder…
From a legal standpoint that’s probably true Kay. But from a commitment standpoint, couples don’t need marriage to be faithful and marriage doesn’t guarantee fidelity.
Miles, thanks for the comic relief. I needed it = )
hkm, you are saying “if she”, “I presume” your arguments are just as moot because you don’t know. I’m telling you there is probably more to it then what you assume.
Here we go with the gays again. I for one don’t understand how someone can actively promote heterosexual marriage when many straight people are marrying for money, insurance, and numerous other vile reasons that marriage isn’t supposed to be, and then turn around and oppose gay marriage (which by the way they are fighting so hard for because they just want to be treated equally kay).
Sorry, off the subject… In my opinion (which I don’t claim to be RIGHT as other posters do *cough Kay cough*) marriage has lost its meaning. It’s sad because it had value in the past and meant something, but over the years people have taken it and dragged it through the mud. I also believe that two people can be happy together and live a “married life” without the ceremony. That’s all marriage is now is a ceremony. It hasn’t stopped people from cheating on their spouse, abusing their spouse or children, or any other awful act. Marriage also doesn’t guarentee happiness. So while it may work for you kay, and many others, it doesn’t hold that value to me (and many others).
Might I reitterate that my previous post involved sympathy for the kids…something you completely avoided. The mother and the father in this situation likely both made mistakes (like everyone does); the unfortunate thing is that the children will be the ones who suffer the most. What is so hard to understand about that?
True enough, Miles. But we’re talking about laying out foundations for best possible outcomes that are consistent with our expectations. Marriage goes a long way in planning for children.
HKM, don’t bother. You’re much too “mcgayle” for me. Be a good bitch now and try adding to the post the next time you want to hit the submit button. Anyone who has been around LTWWB for a while knows kay’s ALL girl. Envision me as a man if you like to be wrong all the time.. and you do. There’s no help for it, I guess.
The prospect of losing HALF your assets can go a long way in terms of fidelity, Easy *cough* Going *cough* Gal *gag*
If you are suggesting that people choose not to cheat so that they wont lose half of their assets you are more dillusional that I thought. I’m done “arguing” with you kay. Might I suggest that if you want people to take you seriously that you may want to hold back on the personal insults, they make you look petty and therefore detract from your posts.
HKM I think your posts are very well thought our and articulate. I look forward to reading your posts because I can tell you take the time to think through the Bitch, not just read it and start typing away. I don’t comment often so I appreciate people who take the time to engage in critical thinking =)
YES! Balls, I am saying that I DON’T know, and I can never know, which is why I always try to be careful to insert qualifiers such as ‘if’ and “I presume’. I take the text that IS presented to me, I look for what seems to be the most important point, and I try to eliminate anything that distracts from it. Sometimes, I do not understand what is being said, so then, I will create scenerios (to figure it out) or ask questions. But, I did not feel that there was need to do that here. The point seemed cut and dried to me: Be responsible for your children. Yes, there were sub-points: Think of the consequences before you act; Learn from your mistakes; etc.. But, I CHOSE to focus on what I feel was the most immediate and important point: Be responsible to your children.
“I truly suspect that Kay is not a real person, nor is the person who writes through her a woman.”
Why do you think that Kay is not a woman, HKM? Nothing to do with Kay her/himself necessarily, just wondering how you came up with that hypothesis.
“I look for what seems to be the most important point, and I try to eliminate anything that distracts from it.”
OK HKM, mind explaining your first post here:
“A family destroyed by the man’s inability to appreciate what he has until he throws it away. It happens so often that it has become a cliche.”
It seems to me that you have a real issue with men in general!
“But, I did not feel that there was need to do that here.” When you only hear one perspective you should.
qpmzwonxeibcruv,
It is simply that she responses to female issues in a consistently aggressive masculine way. I am not saying that she thinks like a man, as I find that there are not many males here who would respond as aggressively (and sometimes as misogynistically) as she does. That is not to say that a woman can not think misogynistically, only that in combination with her aggressiveness, it is usually only found in the most distasteful (to women) of men.
As well, it appears that women frequently argue with and criticize Kay. This is unusual, as you may note as a man that women tend to band together and support one another when it comes to female issues. This is not generally the case with Kay. It is as if she is on the outside looking in. Which leads me to suspect that she is. I wonder if she is on the outside because she does not know how to be on the inside. I wonder if this is because she does not belong on the inside of women’s issues because she is not a woman. I mean, there is something about Kay that often rubs women the wrong way– to the point that I equate her with Life Sucks (and I don’t think that I am the first person to do this).
Naw…Kay’s pretty consistent with her beleifs and opinions…she’s inconsistant with personal details, but that’s all part of being anonymous. I think she’s pretty much who she says she is..she’s just grumpy sometimes.
There’s a reason why HKM can’t post for a day on LTWWB without alluding to “misogynistic” thinking on the part of others. Think about that (more “magic” at work here, folks.) HKM, you’re horribly predictable.
Why is the gender of the bitch relevant? At all? I’d like to think people can be pragmatic and react to issues based on the simple merits of the issue rather than learned beliefs. In fact, it is. If not there would be two comments on this bitch that sum it up, one from a chick and one from a guy. This is not the world we live in, HKM. Sorry to burst your bubble on how a woman “should” feel concerning women’s issues. Stop trying so hard to be a girl and just be yourself striving for original thought derived from fact.
“it appears that women frequently argue with and criticize Kay”… somebody should tell Miles, Fat and PDG that they type like girls?!?!! Oh, and HKM, Life Sucks is a MAN LOL Stop pretending to be something you’re not but take it a step further and stop making like people should be something they’re not. Truth is a bitch, I know.
Hkm as much as you’d like to think woman are victims first. Note that woman can be aggressive. They have roles as military personal, ceos, politicians…. Do you think these women got these high stress jobs by being passive?
Not every woman fells in to your generalizations. Some are strong / independent and don’t need the mob mentality to let there thoughts known, even if they know they will be perceived as a bitch.
Kay if truth is a bitch then what’s your excuse/problem?
Miles, you’ve just attained hero status in my bitch book, which is FAR removed from the chapter on sheep… thought you should know. *golf clap*
NGF, just call me bitch. I don’t mind. LOL
“A family destroyed by the man’s inability to appreciate what he has until he throws it away. It happens so often that it has become a cliche.”
That was my personal observation (summary) of her post. My response to the most important point she made followed later in the thread. Although, you are right to point out that I used sexist language here. I wasn’t my intention to imply that only men are guilty of the above quote. I used the words ‘man’ and ‘he’ because, as far as this post was concerned, it was a man who gave into an impulse that later destroyed his family. I will try to keep in mind, in the future, to make it more general so that I will not cause a misunderstanding.
Balls, I agree with you, in most cases. But, here I felt that it didn’t matter what perspective was taken, the point remains the same. Unless you are arguing:
If the woman did something to cause the man to act as he did, then he should not have to help the woman to raise the children financially and emotionally.
Since it is highly unlikely that this is your argument, I don’t see what the circumstances have to do with her demand that he take care of his family.
BIG BELLY LAUGH… passive people are pathetic.
Okay, I admit it. Today I’m a troll. Cross the bridge if you dare.
I must be missing something.
I’ve read and re-read the original post 10 times, and nowhere does the OP say whether or not she is/was married.
Why are we all assuming she isn’t?
Balls, once again, I agree with you. I think that the problem here is caused by our interpretation of the word ‘aggression’. The Free Dictionary (online) defines aggression as such:
aggression
n.
1. The act of initiating hostilities or invasion.
2. The practice or habit of launching attacks.
3. Hostile or destructive behavior or actions.
In the context that I used it (in reference to Kay’s manner), this is obviously my meaning.
Kay, “BIG BELLY LAUGH… passive people are pathetic.”
See what I am saying?
Informative responses HKM, thank you for explaining and responding in a civilized manner.
I don’t think kay is a man to be honest, just because she tends to think differently than most other posters and rattle a few cages. I knew this one woman, for example, who claimed to hate all women, calling them “a bunch of cunts and bitches,” and she especially hated feminists. She only had male friends and chose to keep it that way. Hardly supportive of her fellow women at all! On the other side, there are plenty of male feminists and men who don’t like men. Bottom and very basic line: everybody’s different! I know I sure as hell am.
“I’ve read and re-read the original post 10 times.”
Jeez Jennie, I thought I had no life!
Kidding, kidding – we both have no life, hahah.
Oh, and by the way, yes, I am biased. Of course, I am biased. Everyone is biased. But, I try hard not to let my biases dictate my responses. I try very hard to remain impersonal and practical. And, that does not mean that I am always successful, only that I am aware that I should always try. But, I am also aware that I have all you good people to keep me honest = )
Thanks for the definition. So your thoughts are that these actions are only by men, which I think is a narrow view of people. So women in the military are there only to bring peace to the world, and none joined to kick some ass. Is that a practical view?
I am exhausted = ). Before I sign off, I just wanted to thank those people who gave me such nice compliments. Sometimes my self confidence is contrary to what I project, so it was good to hear that some people do not feel that I am wasting their time with my often too long responses. Thanks = )
I am so done in, Balls. Please ask me about my sexist biases another time, and I will surely respond = ) Cheers!
I didn’t know Kay was passive….
That’s 2 for 2, LOL
Gotta LTWWB
Being inside Kay’s box, mmhm. Sounds eerie. I wonder what IS inside Kay’s box. I wonder if it’s something like Pandora’s box, but when you open it, it instead turns into a black hole, or another dimension…interesting.
Hey Kay, only narcissists refer to themselves in the third person. Oh but wait a second…silly me; that’s exactly what you are!!! And What the fuck does “all girl” mean?? You often refer to yourself as “all-girl.” Do you mean anatomically?? Or do you skip around wearing a pink frilly dress and white patent leather shoes each day?? What is “all-girl”??? I’d swear you get your little nauseating little one-liners and phrases from the people you watch on the Rick lake show. Gross. You are so, so, so gross.
narcissists AND sock puppets refer to themselves in the third person, Scoob. “All girl” means there’s no mistaking me for a boy. It also means I’m secure in my femininity. Are you gonna be okay, Scooby? Should I call someone for you?
I cannot resist = )
It appears that Kay, or her puppetmaster, has confessed. She says, after being accused of speaking in the third person, that only narcissists and puppets do this.
Is this not what I said of her–that she might be a puppet (through which someone else is speaking)?
Oh, and I think it is strange that she constantly feels a need to tell people that she is all woman (and other such statements that constantly try to let people know that she is not only a woman, but that she is all woman). I don’t think that I have read any other woman here who feels the need to constantly, if at all, state that they are not only a woman but they are all woman.
In fact, the only place I have ever heard this type of titty pounding (thanks Dino
= ) is in a country song.
♪ You ain’t woman enough to take my man ♪
*yawn* bring on the weekend.
It’s barely hump day Kay…still lots of week left.
Always with the tags. Jeebus.
Usually your tags are apt, relevant and even funny. But, rarely are they insensitive. As well. I think that this was more about a deadbeat Dad rather than about a breakup. And since you have used the tag ‘deadbeat Dad’ before, your blase labeling startled me.
You know what’s funny, Tim. I was just wondering to myself if it was possible that someone at the Coast created Kay. This thought occurred to me after Kay used the same response that you used last week– *yawn*
Then I thought, no, that is just too way out there. Mostly because I cannot imagine anyone with an educated background being able to write Kay. I mean, she is just to scattered/out of focus. I cannot see an experienced writer being able to maintain her writing style. The urge to clarify/write clearly would be too great, I would think.
Anyway, after dismissing this thought, who pops on but Tim. Very weird = P
I got bored with that graphic design thingy over there so I thought I check in and see what was going on over here.
Wow!
Actually, I would like to add one personal observation on the marriage issue if I may . . . and I assure you that I am very familiar with the divorce/abandonment/abuse statistics on that point . . . Social Services background again, blah, blah, blah . . .
OK. Marriage. Not a cure-all, and not something created “magically” by a mere “piece of paper”, but I’m in favour, of some kind of legal, public, witnessed “something” and way more than I used to be. Here’s why:
It forces the issue of commitment, one way or the other. And I think you might as well know where you stand on that issue BEFORE getting entangled in a messy emotional soap opera that involves not only two grown-ups with broken hearts but children who may be severely traumatized.
And THAT matters to me because I see far too many girls (older and younger) willing to play the “no strings attached” game when many clearly do not want to.
If two people really want to play “no strings attached”, fine. Honestly, it’s their business and I wouldn’t presume to interfere in private lives.
But I DO know several female friends who PRETENDED it was all fine, but who deeply yearned to be in a committed relationship, and were (actually still are) indulging the guys in their oh-so-important “special” need “not to be tied down” (at age 35, 40, 45 . . .) waiting for him to “change his mind” —and experiencing disastrous results when—surprise! he didn’t.
I know one acquaintance who is undoubtledly going to be dumped for a younger, hotter, fertile woman by her “not-ready-for committment” partner (age 45) the very second she is past all possiblility of childbearing. She “feels” that Mr. Unsettled Delicate Genius will commit when he’s “ready.”
Okaaaay . . . MAYBE he will (we’re all still waiting) . . . but when this fantasy comes crashing down it’s going to be a sad, sad day and nothing is going to make that one any better. No marriage (with him) and no children (of her own) even though those two things are all that she has been hoping for . . . for 20 years!
I know I’m generalizing here, but I believe that the tired old “no strings attached” game is much more potentially damaging for girls than for guys. Guys can enjoy it, and can walk away without getting hurt. Girls seem to suffer more lasting emotional burden that doesn’t seem to go away. And if (god forbid) an “accident” happens, the lifetime emotional, physcial and financial consequences can be catastrophic. (See original letter.)
Add to that the fact that “no strings attached” conusmes valuable time that could be spent with a person who WANTS to be with you, as well as the emotional baggage that can seriously get in the way later when you want to have a quality relationship with a real partner.
I believe that women would gain a tremendous amount of power if they would be honest about their commitment needs from the start, and stop playing into the “no strings attached” game if they don’t want to.
Let’s just call it truth in advertising. Be honest, and don’t settle for “no strings attached” in hopes of “winning the guy over.” Have the commitment talk early—and don’t be afraid of the M-word—MARRIAGE—if that is what you are looking for. If a person who wants to have sex with you doesn’t even LIKE you enough to even treat you like a half-decent friend, then I have to say that you are wasting your time, your precious, fleeting, YOUTHFUL time for nothing . . . or worse.
I have yet to see “no strings attached” turn into a story with a happy ending.
Look, we all have personal dramas, mostly tragedies, a few comedies– sometimes it takes a few years to figure out which is which. Regardless, they’re utterly boring to anyone besides ourselves.
But what do I know? I listen to morons on the bus every day, telling who’s ever on the other end of the cellphone which corner they’re turning, and relating whatever moronic conversation they had earlier with whatever moronic friend.
It’s the Facebook generation, and apparently all our narcissistic thoughts, no matter how inane, are public.
I don’t like it at all. Therefore, the tag.
“Look, we all have personal dramas…they’re utterly boring to anyone besides ourselves.”
I think that if this were true, you and I would not be having this debate right now. Certainly, we would not be using this forum to have it, as the LTWWB is all about people sharing their dramas with other people who actually care enough to read them. And, not only do they read other people’s dramas, but they take the time to comment on what is shared–sometimes quite passionately.
It would be quite satisfying for you if you could actually tell these people on the bus what is in your mind after having heard their side of the conversation, wouldn’t it? Just imagine it. But, of course, good manners dictate that we cannot rant and rave at them about how stupid and obnoxious they are. But, at the Coast, we can do this. Through our anonymity we do not have to fear being judged to be unmannerly. We can say anything (almost). Unfortunately, you do not have that luxury as your posts/tags are not anonymous. Only through an pseudonym can you use bad manners and not be judged personally (or as a representative of the Coast). But, I am sure that you are already aware of this = )
I don’t use sockpuppets, if that’s what you’r accusing me of.
Bitch away. That’s what it’s here for. But don’t complain that you get called out on your tediousness.
I am not accusing you of anything, Tim. I spoke of coincidence only. In fact, I said that I dismissed the thought.
Anyway…
thanks for the heads up about my tedious writing style. Coming from the editor of a newspaper, it must be true. (Blush) I will try to write in a more ? way in the future.
Sounds like Tim may be having a bit of a bad day! Let’s all head up to 5567 Cunard Street right now to give him a big hug. I’m on my way.
Since HKM’s been called out her tediousness, I’m just hoping I won’t get called out on my… being here all the time-ness.
qpmzwonxeibcruv, you can be quite cuddly at times–like a puppy = )
Are we not all just puppets?
Some things should just remain private, is all I’m saying.
Like in-depth conversations about feces?
HKM, show them your tits.
Just what I need…more humiliation = p
But, it’d shut them down = )
(Thanks for making me laugh, Dino)
🙂