So apparantly a certain radio station had a morning show about hospitality staff and tips.
I listened a bit while driving to work and from what I gathered, we have by far the worst restaurant owners in the world.
A lot of wait staff called in about this problem and actually i’m still shocked and appalled that this is happening.
In restaurants and bars now, owners will take 3% of the employees pay check of any amount of food and beverage they sell. So as a consumer, I pay $5 for a drink, and in terms, the waiter/bar tender who actually brought me that drink, pays 3% of that $5 that i just finished paying, from his/her own pocket, to pay for the drink she SERVED, not bought, no SERVED. So technically, this particular drink was just bought twice, by someone who bought it and drank it, and by someone who just served it.
It’s not 3% of the tips they make, it’s not 3% that will go towards paid vacation. No it’s money that the restaurant or bar takes from employees for selling their drink. They base that on the amount of food and beverage they sell.
Now if that’s not thievery and illegal, i have no idea what is!
This article appears in May 8-14, 2008.
There must be more to this story than ‘wait staff works for minimum wage minus 3%’ since that’s illegal. Fill us in. I wonder if there’s confusion between wages and tips here even though you say these isn’t. It’s common for a 15% tip to be shared with the kitchen, bar and hosts. So tell us more, fill us in!
I was thinking there must be more to this as well…my bf is a line cook and I know a lot of servers and I have actually never heard of this…I’m curious now though to know more.
The show was about tipping servers. The point there (for 3% taken from the pay) was if someone does not tip the server, then 3% of the bill was taken from her pay for his/her share of that tip. Seems unfair, but if you suck ass and provide a bad service then it is a form of punishment and incentive for improving your hospitality skills.
Insanity and likely illegal since it is minimum wage these restaurant owners pay their wait staff. Did you know, in most European countries the tip is included with the price of the meal and not dictated by the generosity of the patron. When Europeans travel in Canada nobody tells them to tip their wait staff because things are different here. Restaurant owners cannot ASSUME the food, staff and service deserves a 15% tip and receives it from each and every patron. To penalize the paycheque of one person involved in the team that delivers the service (which is why servers are happy to share tips) is nuts.
This has been going on for sooooooooooo long, I worked at one resturant, 3 % of SALES went to the owners, 2% of sales went to kitchen and bussers…plus if a customer paid the tip on a credit card we also had to pay for the credit card fee on the tip (3% of the tip)Where I work now, they we don’t have to pay the owners! We do have to pay a % of sales to the Kitchen and a % to our bussers so it does suck when a customer doesn’t tip because we then have to pay out of our own pocket. I do understand people who don’t tip for crappy service and I don’t blame them. But there are some cheap bastards out there and it costs us money when they don’t tip.It is a SLEAZY practice to pay the owners but many many places in the HRM do it. Some places will not start paying you until you get your first table, i.e. if you are scheduled for 5 pm but you don’t get a table until 6:00 you don’t get paid until 6:00…you just volunteered your first hour.No bitches about my spelling please.
It’s called tipping out. The money is supposed to be divided up and given to the back of house employees (cooks, dishwashers, bussers, etc). It happens in most restaurants. If you did it as a percentage of tips, suddenly the wait staff would be reporting no tips. It’s not an HRM thing, it happens everywhere.
I agree La Dee Da about tiping out the back of the house and bussers/bar tenders…I do not agree that 3% of SALES go to the owner/operator!
Hello, I’m the original poster here.Honestly Kay, having a 2 hour radio show with 75% of the callers wait staff who complained about the same thing is confirmation enough for me. I heard some places doing that but what i was always told it was their tips. But now, due to the owners being such sleeze bags, they’re taking it out of their paycheck regardless!Jenn, I would greatly appreciate it if you can actually ask your friends and see how that work. If i can get in touch with a lot of people who actually called in, i’d like to investigate this further and take it to CBC. I’d love to get these restaurant owners exposed.Fred, are you one of those restaurant owners, you sure sound like one. If someone sux ass at that particular job, you let them go, you don’t steel from them. If it was the case, i guess a lot of the wait serving staff in halifax i guess suck at their job now don’t they!!
Yaright, man i have no idea how you still work in the service industry. I’m personally not going out much anymore due to this. I just can’t stand by and support restaurants and bars that literally steal from their employees. Places like you mentioned, the % of sales, and not paying you until you get your first table, should be shut down. They shouldn’t be allowed to run a business, nor should they be allowed to have a license for that matter. Yaright, i’d love to know where you work. I want to do a full investigation on this, i’d like to get the media involved. I don’t think i’ll rest until i actually get something done about this. I have no idea how i can get more information about this and know what restaurants do this or how to interview their staff!
This is pretty much standard practice in restaurants and bars throughout HRM (though not all).At the end of the night 3% of gross sales goes to the “kitchen” and 1.5% goes to the “bar”…though servers turn this money in to the MoD, not to the respective staff working that night. In return the kitchen and bar staff get a bonus payment with their bi-weekly pay. I have done the math enough times and am aware of what the bonus situation is in each place I worked to know that a lot of money disappears. Further, most servers must pay for their own uniforms even though when one is mandated to wear a uniform it is the owner’s responsibility to pay for said uniforms. There is also the bi-weekly deduction for breakage, whether you drop a plate, glass, etc or not.We also paid for:- mandatory occupational training (WHMIS, Food Safety, etc);- were not paid for staff meetings;- twice yearly staff meetings also entailed everyone staying afterward to thoroughly clean the restaurant…without pay;- if a customer changed their mind after an order was placed, or a server made a mistake ring the order in, the server had to pay for the meal;- if someone dined and dashed the server was on the hook for the full cost of the food and beverages plus tip outs;- hosting and bussing staff were not a part of the bonus pay out, so servers tipped them out individually at the end of shift.Minimum wage is standard. There is no medical or dental. There are no bonuses. Shifts can be cancelled after you arrive at work, without remuneration. There is an expectation servers will arrive 30 minutes early, remain off the clock until their designated start, but do back-of-house work because they are in uniform. Not doing so means potentially losing work.Did I like serving? Generally yes. Most customers are good people. My co-workers have generally been good people (including supervisors and managers). I am a foodie. I worked hard. I made decent tips for being pleasant, knowledgeable, and as capable as any given night allowed.Did I feel like owners took advantage of their staff – all staff – and flouted laws and decency? Absolutely.
Well said three! we don’t get paid for staff meetings, but we are NOT expected to clean the resturant!…Meetings are usually once every three or four months for a hour or so, so it isn’t so bad. We do have to buy our uniforms but the resturant will buy them back (depending on the shape of them) We do not usually have to pay for our mistakes and NEVER pay if it was the customer who changed their mind or didn’t like the dish. We do have to pay if someone dines and dashes.We don’t have to tip out separately as everyone is included (kitchen bussers etc)I do like my job, and so far I think it is the fairest in the city regarding rules and tip out.
If you don’t like tipping out, or paying for your uniform, or whatever, go find another job. There are help wanted signs all over the city, in a number of different industries. Life is too short to waste in a job you hate.
Tip out in my bf’s restaurant is at the end of the night/shift the servers leave a percentage of their tips from their shift and it’s supposed to be split between the “back of the house” I guess things are different from place to place….
Frannie…I don’t think anyone said they hated their job here…we are just talking about tip out practices and such…guess you didn’t have anything to contribute eh?
I worked at one waterfront restaurant that expected its staff to tip out 5 per cent at the end of a shift. But that’s not it. They also hosted a number of private functions and for those, each server received $10. Bartenders got nothing if there was an open bar. I once worked an open bar there and sold over $5,000 worth of booze and didn’t make a cent. Now this same place would, of course, charge the client a 15 per cent grat on the bill. Each server would get their $10 and the owners would keep the rest. Big bucks for them. They would also resell booze that had been left over from a customer that brought their own. This was my first bartending gig. I was shocked to learn in subsequent jobs that I would get my share of the 15 per cent grat charged to clients.Restaurant owners are ripping staff off everywhere. Three per cent tipout is nothing.
I should clarify a point or two. When I worked as a server, I did not have a problem with tipping out. My co-workers helped to create a successful and pleasant experience for my guests and guests were considerate with their tips.I liked tipping best when it was a percentage of my tips for the evening and not my gross sales. I preferred it went directly to the people for whom it was intended at the end of the evening. Most servers were very fair in their tip outs and most tended to tip more than required. The three way relationship between kitchen, floor, and bar is critical to success and this is understood by good servers.What causes me to object are the owners taking the money directly and doling it out because the full amount does not make it to the kitchen or bar. Based on past calculations, my estimate is 40-50% actually makes it to the kitchen and bar.My other objection is the owners offsetting the cost of doing business to their employees. It is illegal to charge for uniforms, deduct breakage fees, make employees pay for restaurant mandated training, and have employees work off the clock and/or attend mandatory meetings and cleaning session without remuneration.
No, I could absolutely contribute. I worked as both a server and a bartender at a few different places when I was going to school. In all but one we tipped 3% to the kitchen, bar, etc. I had no problem with that as we were all making the same crappy wage, yet I was making good tips and they weren’t. At the other place we tipped the bartender only, and it was at our discretion. I didn’t mean to sound like a jerk. I eventually left the industry because there were things I didn’t like – long hours on my feet, late nights, etc. My suggestion to someone who isn’t happy about having to pay for broken plates, attend staff meetings off the clock (which BTW I have to do and I’m a salaried “professional”) or whatever else should do the same.
La Dee Da, to put it in prespective, let’s say you work at a high end restaurant, where a meal costs about $20, plenty of those around this city. Let’s say you have a total of about $600 sales in food and drinks, but your tips are let’s say only $10, let’s just say you had a pretty bad shift and ran into a few cheap tables!. the restaurant will take from you 3-5% of $600 rather than $10, even though the $600 just went to the restaurant. They are double charging for meals. They’re charging that client for that meal they ordered, in terms they’re also charging you 5% of the price of the meal the client ordered. If you for any second think that this is fair, or anyone out there thinks even the tips should of wait staff should be touched. I think there’s something wrong with whomever doesn’t see this as wrong!The tips are based on the hospitable person that served me and not based on whether i like the food or not. If I like the food, I’ll come again, if I don’t like the service, I’ll make it known, but that doesn’t stop me from going back. What i was informed of today completely changed my outlook on how restaurants and bars are treating their staff and i will for sure limit my outings to places that it’s guaranteed the servers tips are just than and not being stolen by the owner.
Coyotex do you actually work in the service industry?
Frannie, let me answer that for you… Coyotex likes to pretend that he knows what hes talking about, but he doesn’t… Anybody who thinks that a high-end restaurant meal costs about $20 doesn’t have a clue… But here IS a clue for you Coyo…Any restaurant that has a drive-thru, probably isn’t all that high-end…
If people start to blow the lid off this and tell which Restaurants have this practice the servers are going to lose more than 3%, because less people are going to go there. Once I find out about a place that adds the 15% to the bill, I never return and tell the people I know never to go there either. There getting to be quite a few Restaurants between here and New York that add the 15%, fucking thieves.
Here is a question for coyotex,when you go to a “high end restaraunt” what are you more likely to remember 6 months down the road, the terrrific meal you paid an arm and a leg for or good service?” The meal stands out most of the time. Most of the time when someone recommends you with a place, because the food was terrific. I have never been recommended to a place with bad food but great service. You might get great food, bad service recommendations, but more than not, just the food is mentioned. Now, the people in the back, they might make more per hour, but if the customer loved the food, had the greatest time of his life and tipped a hundred…… why the fuck should the server get all of that tip? The server is nothing (in terms of a assuring the product ordered is delicious), she is merely the person that carries it from a – b. So that being the case, why is it so wrong for a system to be set up so that the real hero in a “high-end dining experience,” gets a small portion of the tips?After having a friend in the kitchen at some fancy assed places. I was appaulled to hear that many of the waitresses, walked away with more than triple what he makes per night. Although the waitresses did lots of the work, without a good reputation for good food, them waitresses arent pulling in them big bucks. These systems have drawbacks. If the manadatory money wasnt taken off the nights sales, then the bar backs and the cooks could get screwed. This way ensures, there is some sorta standard to help the behinds the scenes staff and not allow greedy waitresses to say they “hardly made anything”. Of course this leaves it in the hands of the managers/owners.Meh, tough call here.
no one is saying they don’t want to tip the back of the house staff! If it wasn’t for there great food we wouldn’t have any customers. We want to tip them out! Same as the dishwasher and the bussers if it wasn’t for them we couldn’t do our job. We don’t want to tip out the OWNER/OPERATOR of the resturant!
Here is one thing that many people do not realize, being an owner of a business, you are supposed to pay yourself like you do an employee. That would qualify them as manager. Shitty, and scandolous, but true either way. Yaright, how do you suppose a system be implemented, that didnt screw the back room staff? Asking waitresses to be fair about what they made will have just as many cheats as you do managers. Actually, im thinking you might get more. If you get a student waitress that needs to pay a bill or what not, strong chance her tip out isnt going to be exactly what it is supposed to. Its unfortunate that somewhere in this transaction, there is someone that could cheat the system. You will have as many waitstaff that will scam as you do managers, that will scam. I have worked in some clubs where the bartender made $500, which is more than the dj (now that is fucked that a bartender makes more than the entertainment, even though the entertainment is the only person that is DIRECTLY involved with every single person in the bar) and only tipped out the bar back a twenty. The system is so fucked up, that everyone can have a legit complaint. Fix it one way, then someone else gets scammed.
hey homie…I 100% agree that waitstaff MUST tip out bussers, kitchen/back of the house staff a % out of SALES. That eliminates that ungratefull waitstaff from lying about tips. It is paying out of my tips to the owner/operator. It is like paying for your hourly rate, that is the only part I don’t like. As said some places charge 3% of sales to to the owner.
yeah, the owner/operator part sucks, but like explained, they are considered employees of their own establishments. In many high end places, the waitstaff makes more than 2-3 times than the managers once tips are tossed in. This system sucks hard the more you think about it, but it cant be uniform because some restaraunts, the owner is the manager, and in some places there is an actual manager. The rules of taking that extra for a manager, really cant change from place to place. Its a tough one for anyone to enforce, because everyone has a stake in this.
I think, for the most part, that Homie nailed a core problem with the entire system, if not the human population as a whole, and that is honesty.In places I have worked, where tipping was based on a percentage of the evening’s take, the tips were given directly to the bar and kitchen. Those servers (male and female) who were consistently light with the tips were pretty much called out. They were leaned on by staffers and if it was a persistent problem – where tip outs did not correspond to ring offs – supervisors and/or managers got involved. In 15+ years of off and on serving, I only witnessed one case where the person did not fall in line…and she was let go.The objection lodged by the OP was owners taking a cut of the tips. The supporting posts also cited this as the issue. If the money is intended and collected for the kitchen and bar it should go to the kitchen and bar. For the record:- I have no quibbles with owners paying themselves (which they do)- eating and drinking for free (as well as their families and friends)- not tipping (though we still paid out 3% and 1.5% respectively for the food and drinks rung in and which were then voided after servers cashed out)- receiving benefits or any of the other perqs that went with being proprietor.The objection is the 50% of tips that disappeared and never made it into the hands of those intended. And I think we can all be certain that they don’t declare this money at tax time.I have worked in Quebec, Ontario, and NS, and by far servers here have more taken from them by owners and have less opportunity to challenge the working conditions than any where else. I once raised a number of issues with my manager at the last place I worked, and while he was sympathetic, he told me to keep quiet or the boss would fire me on the spot.- receiving promo goods
OK, well i have only this to say.Obviously whoever made comments about the high end restaurant comment i made is a moron and haven’t been to a high-end restaurant. I’m sick and tired of you fuckers and your insulting attitude. Best thing for you, unintelligent bitches, is to crawl back into the pile of shit you crawl out of because you’re obviously what’s wrong with society today. I’m sorry about what’s happening to you yaright.. I think it’s not fair. and I appreciate anyone who agreed with my point, being that it’s theft to re-charge your staff for the meal a client ordered, and not what a high-end restaurant is, or whether i worked in the industry, which has nothing to do with anything, like Frannie suggested. Please, if you have nothing to say, don’t blabber because you want to be KNOWN. Fuck you, I don’t want to know who you are, nor am I interesting in your moronic attitude or comments. Either contribute to the subject or go fuck yourself somewhere else! I’m done, I have no respect for any of you out there, and after this, YES, i think i’m waaaayyy better!.. now back tp you fuckers!!!!!
its is apparent that coyotex doesnt see why the system was set up that way. They arent recharging anyone, they are trying to make a fair system so that managers and kitchen help and managers all get tipped fairly. If you expect the waitstaff to do it, you will see clear examples of the same scamming. Waitresses will be scamming the back staff, by claiming they didnt make that much in tips, or they had a cheap customer. Unfortunately, coyotex refuses that there errors in the system as it is now, is better for the kitchen help than expecting waitstaff to work on the honor system.
Cotex, just because a few people called you out on a few of your inane remarks, is no reason to go postal…I hear KFC is looking for some talented induhviduals… Sounds like something that should be right up your alley… And at $20 for a bucket of dirty bird, I’m sure that will be high-end enough for you…
Coyotex the reason I asked if you worked in the service industry is because it was quite clear you have no idea what you’re talking about. Restaurant owners aren’t re-charging for meals, as you keep putting it. They’re participating in the tip-out system, fair or not.
I’m not going to read through 31 responses so sue me if I’m repeating anything but….3% or whatever it is depending on food/drink goes to “Tip Pool” which covers such things as ‘dine and dash’, a weekly cash bonus (when I was in the kitchen it was 60 cents for every hour) to the dishwashers/kitchen staff who don’t get tips directly, and to cover staff drinkfests/parties/afterwork orgies. Pabst Blue Ribbon!