About a month ago, this guy I met a couple of times (at a couple of parties and at dinner with mutual friends) asked me out on a date. I didn’t find him attractive and felt like turning him down, but I accepted because looks aren’t everything and he seemed like a nice guy with a good head on his shoulders.
We met at a decent restaurant and it went well despite my lack of physical attraction towards him. The bill was about $80 for both of our meals and the drinks. I was going to offer to pay for my part, unless he decided he would cover the entire thing. I mean, HE asked ME out, so I kinda thought he was going to pay. He looked at the bill and cringed, then told me he’s kinda broke at the moment.
HE FUCKING ASKED ME TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING!
I wanted to lose it on him, but I didn’t and relectantly paid for it. Then I ended the date early. I didn’t even get a thank-you from him! Two days later, he called me and asked if I wanted to go out again, I told him only if he was to pay this time since I paid the previous time. Again, he tells me he’s still kinda broke. So I flat-out said no. Enraged, I told my friends (some of them knew the guy) exactly what happened. You would not fucking believe this: they got mad at me for rejecting him, said I shouldn’t NOT date him because he didn’t have money!
EXCUSE ME, but he asked me out when he knew damn fucking well he didn’t have the cash! Even after I stress this to them, I’M the one who gets ragged on! They even accused me of not going on further dates because he wasn’t good-looking, even after I told them I ‘looked past that’ and later found out he didn’t have much else going for him anyway. Then some of his friends sent me angry facebook messages, telling me off for rejecting him, told me I should be grateful that he asked me out in the first place, told me to “get over myself”! I told them and my own ‘friends’ that I think I deserve better.
Dear friends and acquaintances: It’s nice to know you think so highly of me!—Excuse me for having standards & respect for myself!
This article appears in Apr 1-7, 2010.
Didn’t you realize that if a guy is nice, it doesn’t matter if he has absolutely nothing else on the plate? You should be willing to pay for everything, get on your back, and marry him, if he so desires…
Keep your standards. You need them in this city.
Your so-called friends are a bunch of puckered assholes who should mind their own fucking business.
Yeh this guys a loser, consider yourself lucky you found out sooner rather than later… For shits sake gentlemen, if you ask a girl out, you pay… simple as that… Forget all this equality bs, even if they offer…
This guy and his friends haven’t got a clue. Time for new friends, and fast!
Why are people today so baffled by basic concepts of decent human interaction?
MANY young people, especially students don’t have much money. That is NORMAL.
But that doesn’t mean you can’t have a social life.
Here are some sample scripts, for a guy or girl:
“Hey, it’s really fun talking to you. Let’s continue this over coffee. I am a bit broke right now, so I can’t treat today, but I would enjoy spending a bit of time with you.” [For those of you not hip to the slang of your grandparents’ generation, this used to be called “going dutch.”]
or maybe, sometime:
“Hey, I this is fun. I’d like to treat you to lunch/dinner/dessert. Can’t be any place too fancy, but they make a good pizza at . . . “
or the other person could reply:
“That sounds great. I’m a little broke myself, so I understand, so I can’t treat this time either, but if we both chip in we could go to . . .”
Get it? It is about relaxing with the other person so they can both ENJOY themselves. Give and take. MUTUAL respect.
It’s not about “Take me to the most expensive place and by the way you are paying” or “I have no money so will you buy me stuff.” And it is DEFINITELY not about “I’m buying you dinner so you will have sex with me.” It’s about BEING NICE to each other. (And yes, THAT is what can actually lead to sex.)
Sheesh, kids! Get it together! Maybe all those 1950s teens who used to hang out at the ol’ “malt shop” or the “sock hop” had a thing or two figured out after all!
Oh, and even IF the guy IS the best looking person in the world, or the richest, or the nicest, but you really just DON’T want to see him again for whatever reason . . . well geez THAT IS YOUR RIGHT! That’s WHY people date—to find out if they want to BE WITH a person or not.
Christ, it sounds like your friends are ready to arrange a non-consensual marriage for you! I recommend you get better friends.
Something is missing from this story, I dont believe your friends would do that to you if what your saying is true. Or you have really terrible judgement when choosing your friends.
o.p., you should have looked me up. i always pay for the entertainment. and if you wanna play later, hey, that’s fine by me. i do not expect a female to jump in the sack before the night is over. it would be nice, but i don’t expect it to happen. and there are a lot of good guys out there, just hoping to meet a nice person too.don’t let one rotten apple, fuck up your nights out. try again, and if same thing happens, then just walk out the door, let the dude sweat it out.
What a classy piece this guy is. The fair way is 50/50 at all times. This is the 21st century…why should the man be expected to pay for everything.
IF your story accurately depicts what happened OP, then you’re completely in the right.
But like sham wow said, there may be more to this than meets the eye… I’ve never met anyone who’s as big a douche as this guy (and your “friends”) seem to be.
Well, maybe there are more sides to this story, but I think we have all had a shitty “friend” at one time or another, so I am willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt.
Thanks, this story made me laugh. So nice to have a chuckle over lunch.
Your friends are fucking idiots. See about finding some new ones.
I second nevermind and sham wow.
OP, it is possible to date and spend little to no money on it. Also, you should have just said flat out no the second time, none of this “I’ll only go out on a date with you again if you pay for everything this time” bargaining bullshit, and you aren’t even attracted to him. What is that? You shouldn’t have let him sucker you into paying for everything so easily in the first place. He fucked it up, no second chances! Grow some balls OP and learn to say NO.
If this guy was the ‘catch’ that your friends seem to think he is, he would have mentioned up front about his financial situation so that you could budget the evenings meal/entertainment accordingly. Leaving until bill time was a douche move. Why did he even pick up the bill in the first place if he had no intention of paying?
The guys an idiotstick. Next.
You need to find new friends.
Men have been paying for, on average, about 75% of things in relationships for years now, and it used to be closer to 100%! With all this “equality” that women supposedly want, shouldn’t they have to pay for a few things from time to time? It’s either all or nothing, ladies! You can’t have the best of both worlds.
And YES, chick I’m currently maybe kind of seeing, I’m talking to YOU TOO! Don’t look at me like I have two heads when I (*GASP*) ask that YOU pay for something for once. Despite the fact you make more than twice as much as I currently do, I STILL pay for about 75% of everything. Bullshit! 50-50 would be fine, though I’m sure if I made more than you I would be expected to pay for just about everything. I know that makeup and nice clothes can get mighty expensive.
Yes, I did read the Bitch, I’m just going off on a bit of a maybe somewhat sexist tangent.
Ohh, and OP, I’m still kind of maybe available too – at least I hope so!
Look around at your friends. How many of your girlfriends, especially the single parents, have some masculine looking leach attached to them soaking up every penny of disposable income without ever holding down a job or contributing their fair share? The number is way too high and it’s probably because of this sort of attitude. Just because a women becomes educated and self sustaining is not to say she’s now “the man”. Women need to learn from the OP and keep the bar held for the “SO” as high as they keep their own bar of standards. There’s NO virtue in sacrifice for a “boyfriend” and, financially, what comes around does NOT go around, not when you’re dating an obvious leach and especially not when the sex is good or he’s a “really nice guy”. (the “hungry” man is usually very nice while he’s still got an appetite)
As for your friends not being supportive of your position but all for the leach you definitely need new friends who would place your best interest in front of some guy’s itty bitty feewings and non-existent bank account.
I once compalined of poor treatment and lack of support from those in my circle. They thought I was pickin’ a fight. Plan for POOR confrontation skills in keeping Nova Scotian “friends” is what I learned.
I have found that there are plenty of users and losers in both sexes.
I have a girl friend who just recently dumped a guy who thought it was great fun to sponge off her VERY SMALL entry-level salary, and make all kinds of excuses for why every possible job was “beneath” him—it was OK for HER to do “boring” work, but not good enough for him. He also used to whine and complain whenever she had to work overtime. Also, he was an “ACTOR” (50 years old) who refused to take the “small” roles that existed in NS, and who would not move to a bigger city where there were actually more acting roles available. AND he would nag my friend that she should:
1) Get a better paying job
2) NOT go to school/training that would allow her to make more money, because it would “interfere with their time together.”
Do you see the terrible situation that was unfolding here?
I have also known women of the classic “golddigger” variety, and I have no respect for them either. A woman who sleeps with a man for money is a woman who sleeps with a man for money.
Real life is so much easier when there is PARTNERSHIP. The “heavy lifting” (child care, parent care, household maintenance, supporting one another through crisis) is hard—but made a lot easier when you don’t have to do it all alone.
Partnership involves sincere effort, and it also involves give and take. Both my husband and I make good salaries, but he has been in the workforce 10 years longer than me. He is also in a technical field. Thus, he makes considerably more money than I do. We go 50-50 wherever possible, but there are some areas where this would be impossible. I simply do not have the cash to go 50-50 on a 700,000 house, for example. (So we DON’T live in a 700,000 house, trust me!)
We STRIVE for equality and fairness, but still, yes, there are times when I, with the lower income, fall short of what I would like to be able to contribute.
We also have a LOT of romance in our life too. He treats me to surprises from time to time, and I treat him. Again, it’s not about “owing” but rather a give and take to show our appreciation for each other. And because we LIKE spending time together and DOING things together.
Relationships based on exploitation are no good for anyone. Fortunately, many women today ARE taking responsibility for their fair share. In some cases, they are doing more than their fair share.
The “princess” game is for idiots, and guys are completely right not to indulge that behavior, or allow themselves to fall into that trap.
But in the case of a first date—which is supposed to be about developing a romantic connection, is it not?—it is “gentlemanly” for the inviter to offer to pay for dinner for the invitee. And it is “ladylike” to:
1) Not insist on “being taken” to the most expensive place in town.
2) Not order the most expensive thing on the menu
3) Make a sincere offer to pay, at least for half, or offer to treat next time (esp if the date is going well.)
4) Graciously accept the offer if the gentleman still insists, and not make a big uncomfortable scene about the bill.
And for the gentleman, it is respectful, and in your favour, to not pressure the lady into taking things to the next level unless both feel it is the right time for that.
BOTH people have to bring something to the table. BOTH people have to be honest with themselves and eachother. BOTH people are deserving of respect and responsible for treating the other with respect. BOTH are responsible for maintaining their integrity, and not allowing the other to treat them like a doormat.
A little kindness and respect goes a long, long way.
Well, from what you’re saying OP, it sounds pretty unfair… he should have been upfront because he’s broke.
That being said, there’s no reason why you couldn’t do something for the second date. Why not have a coffee date where you bring your own coffee in a reusable mug and sit outside and chat? Or, you could bring a DVD to his place and watch a movie. Or you could just go for a walk, go to the library, play a board game, make pizza together etc. There are lots of things to do when you’re broke. You could have just told him how you felt about the first date, and still gone out with him and had a good time.
As for your friends, there’s got to be a reason that they acted that way. Perhaps it was the way you expressed yourself? Sometimes friends disagree with you because you deserve to be disagreed with… one way or another, you’re always going to have some disagreements when you date friends of friends. Your friends will always have to choose sides, and it sucks, but you have to deal with it.
The first thing I noticed (besides the fact that you were extremely open minded about going on a “date” with a guy you perceived no attraction to) was “We met at a decent restaurant”.
Who chose said restaurant? $80 for two people is not 12 year old scotch and 5 course meal, but neither is it first-date prices for someone you’re barely willing to “date”.
My guess is, you picked the trendy place YOU wanted to go without bothering to find out anything about your companion other than you *assumed* he was going to pay.
I am so glad I’m no longer on the market having gals like *you* determine what guys think of *me*. This story reeks of “I am going to make myself look good so people take my side”.
Just sayin’.
I should have been more brief.
It is rude for anyone, male or female, to say something along the lines of “Can we go to dinner and can you pay?”
I always believe that human interactions are more pleasant when we use things called “the social graces.”
Sounds like the guy here is just a rube. The girl doesn’t like him anyway, so she should be the one to say that it’s time for both to move on.
And I still believe that it is possible for the OP to have friends who don’t get what’s going on here. SOME friends can be clueless, and sometimes they give advice that you should ignore.
So sensible NN. You almost make it sound easy.
Last time I went out on a date the guy paid for dinner and I paid for drinks afterwards. Seemed pretty fair to me.
I think the issue here is the restaurant you went to. 80 bucks for 2 meals is kind of expensive — so why did he either pick it out, OR if he didn’t say something like “why don’t we try *insert cheaper restaurant here*?” Most [reasonable] people would probably get the hint if the alternate restaurant is quite a bit cheaper. And it’s a lot better than having to cop out on an expensive meal. What if you had’ve been broke too? 80 bucks worth of dish washing can be murder on the digits.
You know, this reminds me:
Back in the 90s, when I was much younger and more naive than today, I got involved with a guy who was all wrong for me. He had many redeeming qualities, and we had certain things in common, but really we were just not compatible, and I knew early on that there were serious problems in our relationship.
It started out as friends, and I was actually quite interested at the beginning, BUT I had serious misgivings—I LIKED him as a person, but my gut feeling was telling me that it really should not go further.
Well, I got talking about it with my roommates, and they were all convinced that I was just being closed-minded, etc. and that really “who was I to be so picky” when he seemed like a perfectly good guy (not for them, mind you, but for me—THANKS A LOT, “friend!”) and how I should really give people more of a chance.
So, I took the chance, and we dated for a few months, and everything got weirder and weirder and less and less healthy and it turned into the worst possible breakup in the world. He ended up stalking me for a while (not fun) and even last year there was an “incident” that was an extremely unpleasant reminder of all that stuff from decades ago.
Oddly enough, I recently ran into this “friend” who happened to ask about that guy, and also mentioned “My god, why did you ever get involved with someone like him? We all hated him, you know.” Well, nice to know that now, I guess.
Moral of the story: LISTEN to those alarm bells when you hear them. TRUST yourself, and DON’T take advice from your friends if what they are telling you just doesn’t seem right!
I have a friend who once told me to dump a chick because she was all wrong for me. Myself and all of my other friends at the time thought she was being rude. Then it turned out she was right. All of my girlfriends since then have been screened by this friend.
All my girlfriends since then? You mean she gave each one a thumbs up and you still ended up single again? and again. Hmm…
Well, some of them got thumbs down too. She did approve of my last girlfriend though. Good thing too because I married her. (Sorry HKM, but I already have someone to share my Star Wars sheets with).
hey hkm maybe miles has a hot brother^^tho i am sure not as witty or as much fun as the original
Are you kidding paingirl? I get all my best material from him. Except he’s kinda broke right now, so he might not be able to pay for dinner.
And like that we’re back on topic.
but does he have any funny cat stories?
What a great bunch of friends, not. If I ask someone out, I pay. If they ask me, they pay, unless we say beforehand that it is Dutch. It’s that simple.
Just go with the “you ask, you pay” senario… Who can bitch about that?… well lets find out:
It really is that simple, guys. You ask her out, it’s a date, you pay. He’s a flake. Your friends sound like right proper douchebags. End of story.
With friends like you got…you dont need any enemies !
But as far as I’m concerned, your one of those people who constantly get friends mixed up with acquaintances … & that is your fault, not anyone else’s for not being able to tell the difference.
Here a simple way to figure it out.
A good aquaintance is the kind of person who’ll come down to the local jail in the middle of the night & bail you out !
That OP is a good acquaintance.
A friend, the friend will be in jail with you !
So now you know the difference, if you can’t trust your friend to come over to your house & then help you hide the body of the person you just killed, they’re not your friend, they’re just an acquaintance- Cheers.
This story reeks of fishiness. If it is an accurate portrayal of what really happened, then yeah that’s kind of cheap, but why the fuck would you even consider going on a second date with the guy if you didn’t even like him before the first date?!?
I agree with a lot of what nobody is saying, but I tend to think the person who asks the person out for the “first” date should pay. Nothing to do with sexes, if a guy asks a girl out, he pay. If a girl asks a guy out, she pay.
I think that’s a pretty fair agreement, but that’s just me.
*loud ripping sound emits from her chest as her heart begins to split down the middle*
Wait…
did you say Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek sheets?! Do you also have Star Wars action figures lining the walls of your rec room?
*hemorrhaging slows*
Last time I heard you talking about your significant other, you called her your girlfriend. Hey, is that why you disappeared for awhile…to get married?
Miles got married? Whoa, when did THAT happen (last I remember you were referring to her as your gf)? If it was recent, congrats 🙂
My wife and I go 50/50 on somethings. If I ask her to go out for dinner, it is only right that I pay no matter what the cost. Now only if I can get her to go 69/69 with her.
I mean with me. Cripes with her, she snap her spine.
I thank those of you who supported me, as you see where I’m coming from, though some of you accuse me of being the bad guy.
Gidget, your ‘guess’ is wrong… I didn’t suggest the place. Him and I went through some choices, then he suggested the spot that we went to, said he likes that place, so I agreed. Yes, it was an expensive, trendy place…and as I originally stated, I was willing to pay my part unless he offered to pay for all of it (since he initiated the date).
And to clear things up more:
–My portion of the bill was only about $30, including the main course (seafood dish, no appetizers) and 2 glasses of red wine. HE was the one who jacked up the bill with his huge meal, appetizers, 4 large draught and dessert!
–As for my friends and his friends, I honestly don’t know why they turned on me. All I know is that he was talking to some of them, and I believe he spewwed bullshit to them, and that bullshit was enough to turn people against me…
Nevermind, sadly some people are as douchy as this, and I have had the pleasure of having them in my life.
And for the rest of you: I don’t agree with getting the man to pay everytime, however when I’m asked out by the guy, I’ll get extremely offended and pissed off he asked me to pay for everything, WHEN IT WAS HIS IDEA!
Guys, don’t ask us women out on dates (that cost money) if you’re broke! Is that so much to ask?
OB, you should have just walked out when he asked for you to pay.
No look of disgust, no words; just up and out the door.
i see hidden messages in kays post and in NN posts and Q’s post i sure hope whoever there targeted at gets them i’m sure he does
What’s with this “He who asks you out shall pay for the whole fucking thing” bullshit? While I would do this for something like her birthday, I’ve always believed in you pay for what you eat. It’s worked well for me so far, no complaints.
Second, why the hell would he suggest an expensive restaurant for a first date or for any date if he’s broke? Sounds like an idiot to me. 80 dollar dinner is an anniversary date, not the first fucking one.
Third, you say you looked past his unattractive features yet you felt the need to mention his looks in your second sentence. I’d say his broke ass pretty much sped up the obvious future result. If you’re not attracted to the person physically at all, it’s probably not going to work.
Hey Rocky Raccoon!
There are no hidden messages in my posts, I assure you.
I am surprised, however, that no one has figured out that I’m just the same old me posting under a new name. I guess I thought it would be obvious.
I had to change my identity really quickly because some people at work were getting too close to figuring out who I was. I had to make things a little less obvious.
But other than that, no hidden messages!
♪ Goodbye Ruby Tuesday, who could hang a name on you?
When you change with ev’ry new day
Still I’m gonna miss you ♪
: )
One of my very favourite songs . . .
*wiping away tear*
Is his name Gian P by any chance? lol He is a loser. Your right OP.
Well, time for another change, huh? = p
Maybe something mysterious, intelligent and powerful like M (James Bond) = )
(Although, you have a much warmer nature than M = )
I think you are probably closer to professor Rose (Barbara Streisand) in This Mirror Has Two Faces–after she gains confidence = )
Who needs daytime soaps when you have LTWWB? 😉 Is it time for my resurrection scene yet?
BTW, congrats Miles.
Lotus blossoms thrown regretfully upon his watery porcelain grave, as outraged mourners cried out, Why was the plug pulled on the wee little plastic diver guy? But wait…is that his head appearing from up out of the hair clogged drain? It is! It’s the Plastic Diver Guy resurrected!
I told you he wasn’t gone for good. If he could escape certain death when he got lodged in Jr.’s butt, a sewage hole couldn’t finish him.
going fishing for a few days. all you bitchers behave while i’m gone, or will have to delete all your bad posts when i get back.remember to olice yourselves accordingly. this thing won’t work, if you don’t want it to. have a good one people, i’m outta here.
Remember: catch and RELEASE = p
Screw that !
Catch, clean & EAT ! ! !
have fun…I’m hoping to get out on Sunday, with my girlfriend…& before someone says it, it is actually her idea !
I referring to salmon…
I can’t seem to hook anything but salmon! I want to eat fish, but, instead of trout, salmon keep taking my bait. Time to change bait, I guess.
You mean fish don’t just come in tin cans?
Maybe that’s were I went wrong…I should have been using a magnet for bait = p
God Speed Lifer. Hope you come home with a full creel and an empty cooler. And take your crossbow; Montrealman might be trolling the woods for unwary canoers
And LS has a real purdy mouth…with those luscious red lips.
Ya something’s up. At the start when he said ”I’m kind of broke” why didn’t you offer to just pay your half, and not the whole thing? Maybe he was waiting to see if you’d pay your way. But since you paid it all, you feel he now owes you something? Saying flat out No to the second date because he wouldn’t be spending money (he owes you) your not open to any type of date?
Guys, just because some women make good money, does not mean that they have any urge to spend it on anyone but themselves.
Your friends are right OP.
Usually I’m slapped for being so direct so no hidden messages in my posts. That’s quite a paranoid imagination you there, Rocky Racoon. Your life must be very interesting if not stressful.
I think NN is the kitty. Always likes the kitty even when we argue on LTWWB she’s a sweety
Nope, I only have one account that I’ve ever posted from, kay. I can’t help it if I’m a likeable gal *beams*
That’s too funny…and ironic, eh Ruby?
NN=Ruby Jane, who else is that long winded?
Yep, Mr. B—I just wrote you a note over on the other discussion.
: )
I am indeed long-winded (and working on that!)—but not meaning to decieve.
Just had to change the ID quickly so I could continue to play here without getting found out!
I’ll be back to my old self when the coast is clear.
heehee “coast” is clear ^_^
really? WTF is this? Why? What did I do now? Grudge much and what for now? *rolls eyes*
Ruby, Kitty… two likeable gals! What can I say? I was wrong. I can be wrong. It’s okay, isn’t it?
It sure is = )
*shrug* I wasn’t picking any grudge, kay, just simply replying to your thought that I might be NN. It’s all good.
kitty, the grudge question was about WTF is wrong with that racoon guy? Sounds like Fat on steriods… with a full dozen eggs to be throwing at passers by. He’s awful… and smells bad too.
I’m SO much happier knowing there not a chance the racoon lives in my new town. ZING! I’m so happy I can’t even get mad LOL
I’ve been out of touch for a while but that that last comment mean you’re on to greener pastures Kay? Best of luck! Hope you’re happier and the people are friendlier. Glad to see you’re still around though.
Actually, Kay, if Rocky Racoon keeps this up, I might just like to tag along with you to your new home.
He has added a most bizarre and unpleasant randomness to what had previously been a mostly fun and relaxed conversation.
Miles… wow! THANK YOU! Leaving LTWWB behind leaves a big hole me even when I don’t have a “good bitch on”… so I don’t. Fine line between love and hate, huh? You’ll notice my aggression has become a little kinder and more tolerant… just… like… that. Amazing what affect smiling, happy people can have on a grumpy bitch. I love my new home. You would too NN… much cheaper cost of living to boot! Head west fellow bitches, head west and find happiness AND a little change back from your buck!
Ah, yes, Kay I do miss some of the things from “Out West” from time to time. But, I have roots here now, and will be merely a visitor to my old home now and then.
And, you know, I will miss you around here too.
Really, I do hope that your move to greener pastures (new career as well?) goes fabulously for you.
You will check in from time to time, won’t you, to make sure things don’t get too dull on the ol’ bitch board?
I just can’t help myself, NN! LOL Thanks!
Took the career and business with me. Charities in my new town are pretty happy about that as are my new employees… even the ones I haven’t actually hired yet but this is sounding like we love the way we love *gag*
Bitch on!! LOL