So I just read an article about how the music industry is trying to levy fees from gymnastic clubs whenever they practice or use music. The article talks about charging the clubs a fee of $2.14 per member per year for use of the music (not a lot at first glance but multiply that by a 1000 members and you’ve got a hefty bill). Also they’re asking for a portion of ticket sales from competitions for using that same music.
What’s next music industry? Charging people who play music at a house party because there’s more than the owner listening to it? Levy a fee of $2 per partyer and send the bill in the mail?
It’s just stupid and ridiculous!
I understand the need to charge music downloads but after the music is purchased, the music should be allowed to be shared with the rest of the world!
Consider it free publicity, music industry! Something like that is more valuable than the stupid $2 fee you’re trying to get from these struggling gymnast clubs. A fee that is only making you look greedy.
—Share the Music with the World!
This article appears in Nov 26 – Dec 2, 2009.
Answer – gyms stop playing music. Most of the time it’s crappy dance music they play that I gotta drown out with Ministry, or Rage Against the Machine, or Black Flag on my headphones in order to get myself in workout mode. Just because it works for you in your lame spin class doesn’t mean everyone else wants to hear it.
OP, musicians are getting screwed “every which way but loose.” Nobody is asking for a royalty from your home stereo. Oh, you have a commercial use for the music? Oh, you’re making money from the commercial use of said music? Oh, you can’t run your business (earn REVENUE) without music? Oh, you’re featuring music in competitions that earn you money, new clients, ad revenue and is performed for the paying public? PAY UP!!! The composer’s day has not come and gone, it’s just starting to come round now. In my opinion dance studios can stick to the music afforded by public domain, they can hire their own composers or, and this is brilliant, they can pay for what they USE! SOCAN is about 60 years LATE in getting this right. They should be commended for finally doing their job!
Having to pay for a resource you require to run your business should not be a foreign concept. Did you whine and cry and scream that you have to PAY for a bank account in order to process payments? Did you whine and cry and scream that you had to pay for the calculator to add up your bank deposit correctly? Do you cry about the rent required to have a facility to run a business out of? You probably did but not because you think it’s not fair, it’s a necessary expense! Now, close the business, close the bank account, give FREE dance lessons to the kids in your living room and you can operate without paying to license the music.
OP do you know what it takes to write a song? Do you know what sort of expense is incurred in the recording and release of a single? How about a whole CD? According to you the musician should incur ALL expenses having the revenue of a single sale in mind. This is a formula that leads to a world without music. Now STFU and be GRATEFUL a VERY CHEAP means has been provided for you to have something other than Happy Birthday to choreograph to.
Expecting to use anything for free to earn revenue for you… now that’s just “stupid and ridiculous.” NOTHING is free. Time to grow up. Time to PAY UP.
The most ridiculous part of that story…is some asshole actually thinks people go to a gymnastics show to listen to the music being played !!! DUH…people go to see the athletes. Sure some of them use music in their routines, it is a part of the TIMING !!! not the actual ‘show’
I wonder if their next move will be to put a music tax on bus & mass transit travellers ?
After all people who have their ipod’s & other musical devices cranked when their using them, can be heard by others sitting around them.
So IMO its time that Metro Transit bans all musical devices from the buses, because there’s no way you’ll be able to charge the passengers..it’ll be impossible to police !
But you could charge the venue (the warm bus c/w seating ) for allowing it 😉
Grow up you assholes, they’re children & they’re not earning any money from the use of their music…& I say that because they (usually) have to buy it (the damn CD) just to get the one song they wish to use…so doesn’t that fall under use of purchased product ? Or are you now expecting those of us who purchase a Cd to start sending in a royalty payment every time I play it ?
I don’t personally download music off the net…but I do have the capability to do so…& I’m starting to think this might be the way to go , because I’m vindictive like that.
SO BACK THE FUCK OFF !
Hey, there’s no licensing required to run a metronome or a drum machine but there IS an expense to purchase said drum machine or metronome. Yet, gymnastics routines using a metronome for “timing” just don’t stand apart from the rest do they? Sorta like watching a horror movie with no creepy music. The music is as much a part of the routine as the gymnast is. It adds value therefor it’s HAS value. Capitalism anybody?
More, the sun don’t shine where your head is today. It should be and IS assumed the music on your iPod was obtained legally and all licenses and copyrights satisfied by the publisher, not you, the individual customer or end-user. If it’s sitting in a store waiting to be purchased the licensing fees and are already paid and the retailer legally allowed to sell it. Now, if Metro Transit has a certain informative video that plays to their customers over and over again and that production contains music then Metro is responsible for licensing THAT music.
It’s not the kid’s money the musicians are after. It’s the parents who have enough disposable income to see their children enjoy dance lessons. They’re willing to pay for dance lessons without music? I thought not. They’re not looking to collect a royalty every time the kids need to rehearse their routine; instead, a blanketing license is issued for a nominal fee. What’s not fair about that?
Do you give away YOUR expensive products over and over again for nothing? All should expect composers to be just as vindictive as you are when somebody or everybody rips them off.
I think there is a distinction to be made between commercial use and general use.
If you legitimately purchase a piece of music, there are certain uses that fall under the category of normal use.
Listening at home, in your car, transfering to your digital device, playing the music as part of a private party, wedding or dance etc., as background at work, at school, or as accompaniement to an amateur sport or recreational event are all normal, expected, legal uses.
If however, a commercial sport/entertainment organization like the NHL or NBA is using music as part of their advertising or audience experience, (or if you decide that your own playlist should be “broadcast” as an internet radio station) then absolutely musicians should be paid appropriate fees for commercial use.
It wouldn’t make sense to limit music listening to only each individual purchaser of the CD or MP3. How would any music ever get heard or promoted or sold if you weren’t allowed to let anyone else know about it?
For events where other people hear the music you play, but you do not make any money, music producers get free advertising and are making more money because of you, so maybe THEY should be paying YOU.
The same applies to the gym scenario, except that the gym also benefits, but maybe it’s a wash, and no-one should owe anyone.
Here’s the real issue, though: the music industry just doesn’t understand the concept of competition. If they had their way, and people were charged for every little use of their music, then people would listen to LESS MUSIC, or at least less of THEIR MUSIC. People would have more reason to go straight to the source and go straight to artists for music—for much cheaper, or even free, depending on the artist—since the music industry’s value was mostly in it’s distribution and advertising muscle, and that is mattering less and less these days. They should be careful what they wish for. They may find themselves tossed out on their asses.
Back to this specific example: If I’m a gym owner and my costs from a supplier go up, I look into other suppliers.
Any public place where you are having music (live covers, or pre-recorded) as part of the entertainment, there’s a SOCAN fee.
A friend of mine got married and hired a live band. The place she rented for the reception charged her the SOCAN fee, but the band had already paid it, and tried to recoup it from the bride and groom after the fact. The hall wouldn’t budge even though it was proven that the fee’d already been paid, because SOCAN insisted since the hall was where the performance was, regardless of whether the band had taken care of it, the hall was responsible as well.
Suck it up, OP, people who compose and perform songs should get paid for their work. Gid knows the record companies get more of the profits than the artists do. Let ’em get there $50 royalty cheque every month. It’s not like they make billions for each time you play the song on your iPod.
Just as artists should get paid every time you view their work? Idiotic SOCAN.
Good point, Pip Squeak. But paintings sell for significantly more than music, and the “physical art” industry isn’t run by greedy conglomerates, as a rule.
The music has been paid for. That’s the end of it. SOCAN has no right to continued fees and on top of that ticket sales.
You should have learned from Metallica vs Napster what happens when you try to fuck over the end user. These are non-profit organizations that are of great service to this country’s children. SOCAN just stepped into a world of shit with this one.
Do you expect plumbers, carpenters, vending machine companies, etc to give their goods and services for free to non-profit organizations? For some reason people think it’s their God given right to download music and videos for free and worse use them commercially. I do part time work in the entertainment field where pre-recorded music is used. Where one time the music is bought (and all the good entertainers bought it) is now being flooded by those who use illegal downloads or buy illegal hard drives with tens to hundreds of thousands pieces of music and going in and charging a small fraction of what a show should be. Now is this fair to those who have paid to play?
And yes every store, mall, bar, or anywhere else that plays music pay or should pay SOCAN fees. Those fees are the responsibility of the store or venue and not the entertainer.
The music was paid for, so the service wasn’t rendered free now was it? Idiot.
What part of public performance do you not understand?
Or commercial use.
Dogma, without having that chat or having an agreement in place with EACH copyright holder the copyright holder is not privileged to have a choice about whether they should PAY to be heard or BE PAID to be heard. You said, “the music industry just doesn’t understand the concept of competition” I ACTUALLY had to pick myself up off the floor after reading that. But you touch on some valid points like approaching a composer on your own. You’d be surprised how cheaply a licensed can be obtained or how easily an up-and-comer can be persuaded to market themselves for free. The point is you NEED to have that conversation. Most do not. Most presume to rip off the music and are actually complaining when they’re caught stealing.
Gidgit, it’s up to the VENUE to ensure licensing has been obtained for each copy written work showcased at said VENUE. I have yet to work with a cover band (I’ve worked with lots) who make regular submissions to SOCAN since the venues they play are generally required to submit for a blanketing license similar to what’s being proposed for the gym/dance clubs. Had said band actually obtained the required licensing said document would suffice in satisfying copyright law but since that NEVER happens… (most cover bands don’t know a SOCAN from their g-string)
Pip Squeak, it’s not a “per view” license that’s needed. It’s a “per print” license for the mechanical reproduction of art similar to the licensing requirements for manufacturers reproducing CD’s (and CD art).
Buying a CD and taking it to work to entertain your customers with background music is a violation of copyright (it’s no longer “personal entertainment”). Legally you can subscribe to, for example, satellite radio, and allow your customers to enjoy your “for business use” subscription or “license” or avoid the cost all together by piping in live radio. No, you may not record your favourite radio show and re-broadcast it at your place of business since you didn’t not obtain permission/licensing to make the copy in the first place. Make sense?
An artist is an artist is an artist and ALL of them who dare to share their work get ripped off regularly. This is an EXCELLENT move by SOCAN if not just to create awareness and educate the public. Starting by educating little ballerina’s is a fantastic way to ensure the lesson gets through to the masses.
Who says they deserve that fee? Does the plumber or carpenter deserve a fee everytime you have a party and somebody walks up your stairs or flushes your toilet? Yeah, right.
They were paid fair and square, and deserve nothing else, especially from struggling parents, kids, and non-profit organizations. Period.
Anybody who thinks this was a wise move by SOCAN had better go back to school and take a course in ethics and PR.
Besides, if your music sucks so bad that you need SOCAN to steal from the poor to survive, then you deserve nothing anyway.
I think I know someone who downloads for free.
I will now. And that’s not free either Einstein. We are charged a tax for blank media, so downloading is paid for by me, and it’s now my right.
Last time I checked, SOCAN helped Canadian music artists get financial backing in an increasingly American led industry. Anything that they do to help Canadian acts get going, the better.
SOCAN sucks who says you deserve what you make?
Many factors go into what I make. But one thing is for sure. After I have completed my job and have been paid, I have no right to continued stipends.
Ethics and PR??? Are you kidding me??? SOCAN exists BECAUSE businesses, ESPECIALLY non-profits, operate with a lack of ethics. SOCAN IS a non-profit! You’re not going to win this one. Nobody with even an ounce of ethics require musicians to pedal their wares for free. And hey, you go ahead and pay somebody to compose and record your song, you publish it and you can play it till the cows come home. You can even give copies away for free as your party guests crowd around your one-time-fee-to-tune-of-about-$25k kitchen island you paid a carpenter to create for you. Asshole.
Oh and your thinking to justify your illegal copying and downloading is flawed by how royalties from blanketing licenses works. If your music was played only once in a serious sample for determining share of license fees collected you, as a composer, get sweet fuck all according to the curve. So, if you were nice enough to let the composer know you’ve downloaded their work and burned it onto taxed media then the composer could register a single “play” and submit it to SOCAN to ensure their share of the blanketing fee on media is divied up correctly. Since you do no such thing (because it’s ILLEGAL) the rich get richer and the little guy gets ripped off yet again.
Not going to win? lmfao, I won before this started monkey.
So SOCAN taking money from the least able to pay is ethical? And a kid’s afterschool dance routine are the big bad wolf, while SOCAN are Knights in White Satin? lol, try again Einstein.
The music was paid for. End of story. You can’t rationalize that it wasn’t.
Nobody cares what share the artists get from the levy. Fact is, it is charged, and that’s all they are entitled to.
Basically, you better go back to Metallica vs the People to see what a disasterous move this is. History doesn’t lie.
The “least able to pay” don’t sign their kids up for dance lessons or gymnastic programs outside of the public school system. Those same organizations must pay for a particular kind of space to operate in. Why don’t you go yell at their landlords for having no ethics in charging rent?
The music was paid for. NOT the end of story., The music license that was paid for was NOT for commercial use.
History? HISTORY? History says it’s time you all pay up. Einstein could have told you that and he was born a COMMUNIST!
Kay, I realize it’s up to the venue, however, SOME cover bands actually *do* know “SOCAN from their g-string” because they are *GASP* members.
Just because a band makes the bulk of their money playing covers and aren’t therefore required to deal with SOCAN, many of them are members to cover off things like original music, which might not make them any money *now*, but hopefully will in the future…
Hey Kay, maybe you should get away from computer (off your fat ass if you will) and take a look at who SOCAN is really going after. Many of these groups are within the public school system and not for profit, so drop the dumb-ass argument about it being something else that it is not.
Work was paid for. No other fees are deserved, certainly not for non profit organizations. C’est tout. That’s it, that’s all. The plumber has no right for commercial use of his work. Musicians are no group deserving of any special status aside from the rest of us.
History says SOCAN will pay for this bigtime.;)
LOL, you’re too easy SS. You’re speaking on a subject I know very well. Oh, and the ass is FAR from fat. Here’s a tidbit to brighten your day. This is an excerpt from a popular music publishers’s website with regard to obtaining licensing for any of their songs:
How NOT to clear music…
“…4. Don’t expect approval on a request just because you’re a bona fide good-deed-doing charity. Many of our clients get dozens of charitable requests per week and they cannot all be approved.”
If you paid your carpenter to build you a deck and instead they built you a fence would you say you paid for a deck? No. You didn’t. THIS is the difference between “commercial use” and “personal use”. Get it now?
Oh fatty fatty fat fat. All you know is how to blather BS. lol
Here’s a tidbit from the real world.:
“You were paid for the music, and you deserve nothing else, and you aren’t going to get it.”
Nobody cares about SOCAN’s position. Get it now?;)
Holy fuck you are stupid. If I paid a carpenter to build me a deck, and he built it, and then showed up next week asking for more money because other people were using it, do you think he’s going to get any money? That’s the difference between getting what you deserve and stealing from people? Get it now?;)
SOCAN will regret this bigtime.
SS, schools do not pay SOCAN fees because they are exempt as are libraries under the Copyright Act of Canada. Try reading it.
Tim Hardy of SOCAN’s Dartmouth office:
“…there are no exceptions for non-profit organizations.”
Try reading that. No exceptions – schools or not.
Again read the fucking act.
Again. Read the fucking quote from SOCAN.;)
A school is NOT a NON-PROFIT organization. Ergo they do not come under the pervue of SOCAN.
SOCAN says no exceptions for any non-profit organization. But hey, there’s a simple solution here. Take your shitty Canadian music – 99% of it so bad that they need to steal from the least able to pay to sell it – and shove it up your ass. There. You suck, you are thieves, and you can go to hell for your money-grubbing.
I would normally pay to support local music, but not anymore. Rip, share and download. Nice move SOCAN, hope your members are happy.:)
Actually, I have less of a problem with this than with the blank medium tax. Now THAT is retarded. I would trade one for the other in a flash.
With this issue, I’m not weighing in on whether music corps should be able to do it, but rather that maybe they shouldn’t, for their own sake.
I know I’ll be spending a lot more time on YouTube and http://www.newgrounds.com if the price of ‘owning music’ gets out of hand.
SOCAN fees must be paid by anyone who uses music to enhance their business. This is the rule. It’s not so hard to understand.
Not-for-profit groups are not a business, nor is it commercial use. Not hard to understand.;)
“SOCAN licences only apply for the public performances and telecommunication to the public of copyright-protected musical works contained within SOCAN’s repertoire.”
Which means that if it’s not in their list, they don’t charge. So just use public-domain , or non-SOCAN registered music in public places, and voila – no SOCAN fees.
If you’ll excuse me, I am going to get out my phonograph, and re-record my “Tommy Dorsey’s Clambake Seven” collection for use in the office…
gidgit… gotchya loud and clear but you know what I mean. Most cover bands do NOT register performance with SOCAN other than performance of their own material with a SOCAN registered broadcaster. Most VENUE’s don’t even pay into it! Imagine what would happen if open-mic nighter’s registered performances. The sign-up sheet, if there is one, actually serves as royalty-free performance protection for the venue (on the originals) but even the venues don’t seem to know that so you know what I mean when I mention the proverbial g-string?
I look around and the local musicians are the ones least able to afford anything, SS. Their kids are hackin’ it out on some beat up old guitar not lacing up ballet shoes. Musicians are some of the most skilled and most practiced yet under-paid of our population.
I think you’d feel better paying the MODEST fee if you looked into the cost of production… and that’s AFTER somebody writes a song, which can take years. Did it take YEARS to imagine that deck? Did the Jones want a deck just like it? But you created it! It came from YOUR imagination! You can’t hide it and still enjoy it so what do you do to protect your design? You copyright your design then charge a licensing fee BEFORE Jones gets to build it, that’s what! Smarten up! SS, you’re like the Jones’ who just copied the dam thing willy-nilly. Eventually somebody will notice and you’ll get your ass sued whether you thought to resell the design to the Abbot’s down the street or not.
Get it now? Come up with your own or be prepared to pay… just like EVERYTHING else. Geesh!
Oh, and not-for-profit groups ARE a business and they do run a budget to cover operating expenses like, say, the coordinator’s salary or for a Windows license or say a license for music. Holy cow man. Stop being obtuse and LEARN something from all your bitching. Yikes!
“SOCAN licenses only apply for the public performances and telecommunication to the public of copyright-protected musical works contained within SOCAN’s repertoire.”
Which means that if it’s not in their list they are simply not entitled to collect on the royalty. This does not mean you are not violating copyright law by not seeking permission or license to use the music for ANY reason. The moment a work is created in Canada it is covered under copyright law. SOCAN registration (collects the royalty and) only helps to prove the date of creation should there be a challenge. If it’s not specifically public domain it’s specifically somebody else’s intellectual property requiring express permission to use in any way.
Better go to a NFP organization and see what kind of gear they use Kay.
Nobody forced musicians to be musicians. They have no special right to continuously leech off society just because they make music. They created it and they got paid. That’s all you get. That’s right – I already paid.
So if my neighbors look at my deck and build one like it, now they owe me!? chaa….lol
NFP do not make a profit. They are not a business that creates employment from their finances, so charging them as if they are making money is a dead argument. And very bad ethically and PR wise when you go after kids. Die SOCAN die.
Totally get you, Kay, IME, though, most cover bands I have worked with have been SOCAN registered.
And you’re right – in what other industry (than the arts) can you continue to gain experience, and end up getting paid LESS after 20 years in your chosen field than you did when you started? Ask a Canadian musician who hasn’t made it big yet… 🙂
Hey, you get paid what you are worth. If I stop working after 20 years, I kinda deserve not to get paid……regardless of what I have already done. You do something, you get paid. Once you have been paid, you better do something else in this life, ’cause life ain’t no charity for the greedy.
I’m guessing you’re not musically inclined, dude. 🙂
I’m not saying it’s right, just saying that seeing as how creative people who choose to attempt to make aliving from their talents generally get cornholed by the world, how does it hurt to let them make $0.15 a year from the gym playing their songs on CD? It’s not like this is a billion dollar fee, and it’s supposed to PROTECT artists, not make a shitload of cash.
And by the way, if you stop working after 20 years, you DO still get paid, by OAS and CPP – two options not available to artists unless they have “regular” jobs as well.
I am very musically inclined. Both my kids are members of SOCANS. And they know it’s not right to go after non-profit organizations. The kind of organizations that they fund-raise for in order to be able to attend events. It’s not just .15 cents. Do the math, and teh numbers are substantial to organizations that operate on fumes. PLUS, they want a fucking cut of any gate proceeds!!!! Sleaze.
Artists pay into those same programs as well.;)
The 15 cents comment was about what the songwriter or artist gets, not SOCAN.
NFP’s DO provide jobs. You don’t think the good people at, for example, Feed Nova Scotia go to work 40 hours a week for nothing, do you?… where did this dingbat come from anyway?
Yes, safe conclusion SS have never created anything unique that’s of value to anybody. It’d sure be a different tune playin’ if SS discovered they were willed some Beatles tune out of MJ’s estate then watch how quickly things would change.
The only sleeze are those who think they should get something for nothing. If you are so aggrieved by SOCAN’s methods and who they can collect from then do something useful and contact your MP to have the Copyright Act changed.
rehearsing at a gymnastic school isn’t a public performance.
I should know I set up & do live acts…& have done so for years. Its one of the reasons I don’t have any downloaded Cd’s or Movies by anyone, except for those I have purchased. If I throw a party at my house All the Socan people supporters here, & out there will be sucking wind for a long bloody time, before anyone gets another nickle out of me.
THe total lack of common sense here on this subject by some is staggering. I would also like to point out, to help low budget or no budget shows, I have donated on more than 1 occassion this year & every year for at least the last 7years, not only free technition time to help with set up & tear downs, as well as doing free show calls. I’ve supplied & delivered free equipment as well. Which is often requested through the film co-op or the community college in conjunction with PS Production Services, Tour Tech East &/or William F Whites ltd. I would also like to mention that many other professional Techs I know have done the same… its called ‘growing the industry’…maybe if these guy’s at Socan could try to gather 99 clicks…they would some day have a clue (because you need 99 clicks for each & every clue you got)
As I read that story again, I personally believe click #1 is still eluding all of them !
Kay you stupid fat pig. You are so fucking stupid, you can’t even keep on the subject. We aren’t talking about feed NS are we. Get it now?
We are talking about volunteers who operate these NPFs. Get it now?
Volunteers don’t get paid. Get it now fatty?
SOCANS and their members deserve fuck all for being greedy sucks who can’t make a living except by extorting the needy. Fuck them. They are going to pay for this.
Bro Tim you are so right. The sleaze here who expect to get something for nothing are SOCANS members, who got paid for their work, yet that isn’t good enough – they demand more than other members of society from kids. Well they’ll get less than that now…..
fatty? I think one has to be at least 100lbs to qualify for this endearment. Another safe conclusion derived from “projection” (classic psychology) is SS has some serious SERIOUS weight issues. I can’t relate nor am I feeling sorry for this idiot save for how stressful life must be when your capacity for learning is nil.
SS, you can blather on all you want but the bottom line is if you take it and use it and it ain’t yours you’re gonna pay up whether the musician “needs” money in your opinion or not. Look up “intellectual property”. The definition may be a good start.
Why don’t you tell your wanna-be-rock-star kids how when they spend their own money (or will it be your money?) on recording, producing, mastering, reproduction, distribution, advertising dollars (about $8k per song per radio station) and throw in a single $30k promotional video and another $20k to get it broadcast THAT… when Mom buys their CD ONCE (your kid will see about $8 after the distributor see their cut) that it’s Mom’s RIGHT to use it for commercial purposes (as in, to generate revenue), run a BUSINESS completely dependent on the use of that music, make millions (or just a decent living) off of it and the kid is entitled to… $8…. from mom. No royalties. No SOCAN payments. Just $8 in retail earnings to offset exorbitant costs.
You’re fucked in the head, SS.
I recently turned down a position offered by a certain not-for-profit because I haven’t worked for $40k/yr for over 10 years now. Not enough money. Too bad. So sad. I did, however, offer my time to occasionally volunteer since I believe in their cause.
I can’t believe how obtuse you are, SS. I guess that’s what happens when you have to excuse your very wide self every time you need to squeeze that very wide ass through a set of double-wide doors. Sorry. I just can’t relate… What’s your excuse? Can’t afford to go to the gym? LOL
Actually, I can imagine the kind of life you lead thinking someone should only have to pay once to enjoy proprietary technology or make use of the intellectual property. Have you driven a Ford lately? Has your neighbour? You EACH paid for the privilege of driving a Ford. By your logic it should have been enough that the intellectual property rights belonging to the designer of the car was paid a stipend upon the FIRST sale of the car.. and that should be enough. Why aren’t you crying to Ford about charging for the rights to proprietary technology on EACH sale, greedy bastards!
Another thing you should get your head around, SOCAN collects “performance royalties”. That’s it! That’s all. They have NOTHING to do with retail sales. Look at the math I’ve provided above, investigate it so you know the $8/CD to the writer figure is accurate then add up the amount they wouldn’t receive in royalties without radio play… that is, sweet fuck all. You propose the “greedy sucks who can’t make a living” make a living off of $8. You’re completely fucked in the head and I’m exceedingly grateful greater minds than yours are involved in the law-making process and govern the board at SOCAN.
Hey, they’re polling for an opinion survey right now. Go make yourself useful. Even SOCAN board members enjoy a good chuckle from time to time.
Denial is truth fatty. Too bad. So sad. You talk to much…;)
If I bought the music, it’s mine, and I’ll do as i want and pay no more, whether the sleazeball musician/goon squad likes it or not. Actually, now i won’t even pay for it. Fuuuuuuuuuuck them.
I’m not here to subsidize whining artists who suck so bad that they can’t make a living without stealing from kids. It’s not my fault they picked a loser way to get through life by leaching off the least able to pay.
The only place you volunteered for was the food bank….;)
SOCANS is a for profit organization as opposed to kids volunteer run groups. These sleaze merchants are making money off this. This is like the relationship between cops and the war on drugs. It gives them something to do, because they can’t do anything else.
SOCAN may get a chuckle, but the people will have the last laugh over this one, and it will be at the artists expense….wise move.
No need to babble on, see Metallica for a lesson in humility. FTW fatty, FTW.:)
You’ve never “bought” music. You’ve only ever purchased a license for personal use. The license you buy for $24.95 at your local HMV is NOT the license required for COMMERCIAL use nor did the license you bought at HMV pay ANY KIND of royalty. Does it really pain you to know the writer got about $8 of your retail purchase?
I wonder how you feel being forced to purchase a license for each copy of Windows you plan to run. Hey, you paid for it once all ready, didn’t you? *rolls eyes*
If you’d like to experience what “buying music” is all about check out Wixxen publishing who “bought” the commercial rights to many popular artist’s music. One license in particular, “The Best” made popular by Tina Turner (no, she doesn’t own the song, just a license to with it what she wants) cost them $1M fat green backs to earn the rights you think these non-profits should have for FREE. You’re nuts! Out of your mind! There’s no help for you or your babbling. Give up!
Oh and there’s no denying a size 1 pair of jeans are baggy on me these days, SS. Go eat a cupcake or something and cheer up. This is just the way the world works. People work, you enjoy their intellectual property, you pay. Simple.
Hey, the artist could have simply registered their song as a performance after hearing it at a competition and the club would get a bill from SOCAN if not served for a court appearance. Be GRATEFUL SOCAN protects your little ballerina’s and gymnasts.
No. I bought the music, and that’s all that you get. Doesn’t pain me one bit. Don’t like the rate of pay, go get a job. Don’t pick on little kids. Leeches.
This isn’t free use. The music was paid for. That’s all you get.
pffft. Let’s see SOCAN start dragging these kids into court. You’ll find out how much those laws are really worth. ole:)
I’d be surpised if many artists actually support this approach by SOCANS, fucking over kids.
Go get a job? OMG!
What if the writer doesn’t want THEIR music associated with a bunch of gay little boys all wrapped up in tights? Who are you to make that association corporately and publicly and without permission yet legally? And then make money off it of? Fuck off. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Besides, it’s $2 measly bucks. WHO’S being greedy now? Why not pool the money together this year so the NFP can PAY an ON STAFF composer who creates for them, royalty-free forever and ever? fuckface. Go create a job in the arts or something!
While you munch away why not look up “operating expenses” and see where wages fall on an NFP income statement? And then see what kind of facilities qualify for federal funding and then fuck off some more and then some more.
SOCAN… there’s no S on the end of this trademark which is also protected from idiots doing stupid things with other people’s intellectual property commercially, publicly, in order to earn money, blah blah blah. You’re daft… I give up.
“with a bunch of gay little boys all wrapped up in tights?” Nice sentiment from SOCANS. Real nice. And you wonder where the respect has gone.
Non-profits organizations don’t make money off kids shows fatty. They just barely survive. And if the artist doesn’t want their music being used after it has been paid for, too fucking bad. Sing in the shower.;)
Once I buy it, I own it. That’s the deal.
Pay an on staff composer? lmfao. You really are dumb fatty. The only people who could afford that are SOCANS sleaze who are living off little kids like leeches.
Hey fatty, go ask kid’s program volunteers how much they get paid, then go eat another box of KFC. Then go eat some more.
SOCANS – Sleazy Operation Cheats All Nova Scotia. Get it now fatty.
I sure hope you stand up and speak when SOCAN is listening. Like I said, we all need a good chuckle from time to time. Like charging $2.14 per kid per year is going to change enrollment stats. Give us all a break and pny up your toonie for a year. It’s fucking pocket change. Your single moms spend more than that EACH DAY for coffee! Besides, didn’t anybody tell you? There’s a recession going on! Prices are going up. SUCK IT UP or plan to dance to Happy Birthday and other public domain works over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Dirtbag. The kids would be ashamed to have you speak for them, tights or no tights. YUCK
Fuck SOCANS, I go straight to the source – the people who make the laws. Like I said, we’ll see who has the last laugh. Pocket change! If you bothered to look around, people are living off foodbanks, and can’t afford transportation, heat and clothes, and now SOCANS wants to pile on with their sleazy greed and burn the kids. Nice. The people SOCANS represent had better be prepared to SUCK IT UP, because they are the people we are now going to download, or just not listen to until they fade away into the compost heap. Fatty. The kids know who the bad guy here is – six simple letters:
S O C A N S
Pound sand fuckers.
Wow. I wonder what the kids learn when they stop at the food bank and then Tim Hortons on the way to dance lessons?
SOCAN eats uneducated peons like you for supper.
Get real. Grow up.
A friend of mine worked for SOCAN for a while a few years back. Although he got a neat company car and travelled the province a fair bit…he was a bit of a ‘collections’ officer.
Including $20 monthly for any business that wants to pipe licensed music to customers on hold!
SOCAN may sound good in theory…but these days there are just so many artists, it’s almost impossible to estimate what’s being played, and how often…
With digital music, there must be a way to track who’s listening to what…and not just charge blanket fees and give it all to Bryan Adams and Avril Lavigne…
The kids don’t go to Tim Horton’s. If you got off your fat ass to see how people lived you might stop saying stupid shit fatty.
SOCANS doesn’t eat anything for lunch. They whine like little babies. But hey fatty, you know who gets eaten for lunch? Dumb ass musicians who allow SOCANS to screw over kids groups.;)
See The People vs Metallica for a lesson in the real world.
I am grown up. I am reality. Deal with it.
Hey “grown up” (SS)…. this is reality. It’s $2 a year! GET OVER IT. You’re not going to convince anybody $2/yr is exorbitant and you’ll certainly not convince the musicians to commercially license their works for nothing like you think they should. $2 isn’t going to break the bank. Period. I can find $2 worth of recyclables in about 30 minutes of rooting through YOUR recycling. People have options! Chill out! If your kid needs dance lessons or gymnastic training so bad when you haven’t got food in the fridge then there’s something wrong and it’s not an extra $2/yr at the root of this kind of problem.
Frosty… SOCAN has always paid out based on a curve derived from a wide sample. The only things that offset that curve are specifically registered performances and actual play-lists submitted by broadcasters (as far as I know). This is actually why it’s important an artist’s permission is obtained BEFORE broadcasting performances… so they (can refuse or) know to register the performance.
And Frosty, can you tell SS here how your buddy wasn’t a volunteer while WORKING for SOCAN, a NFP BUSINESS? Teaching this idiot anything is like pulling teeth but I’m sure SOCAN board members would appreciate people NOT whining from the SIDE of their head.
I don’t care if it’s 10 cents. They don’t deserve it. Nor do they deserve a portion of gate sales from operations that rely on donations to stay afloat and provide kids with activities. That’s how out of the loop you are. There’s something wrong when SOCANS is waging a war on children by trying to shut down their activities and steal their money after they paid for the music. People have options? Time to step into the real world fatty. It’s sleaze like this that fucks over the poorest people, all to applause from the artist crowd. Well, you’ve got another thing coming – and I ain’t paying for use of that either.;)
SOCANS is paying people to travel the province and try to shut down kids programs. It’s no different than the war on drugs. Who do you think pays for the free cars, motel rooms, dinners for these jerks to run around the province doing this – the kids they steal from – it’s a business for them. A for profit thievery – aka SOCANS. They stay in business by leeching off the poor and kids. Nice group of people.