Can I bitch about the Coast’s own bitch forum? I’ve been reading it, and an awful lot of it is people bitching about each other, or attacking each other is maybe more accurate. I mean almost the whole recent comments section along the side there is taken up by people deciding whether Jane is this person, or Jane is this other Jane, or whatnot. Who could possibly care?
I get that this thing isn’t moderated, but is it monitored at all? And shouldn’t the monitor be weeding out all this masturbatory crap?
I know if you print this I’ll be accused of being someone I’m not, just so a bunch of people I’ve never met can get their jollies by judging me and telling me all about myself.
But I hope you do print it, so maybe we can get a dialogue going about ways to improve the Coast’s forum.
This article appears in Apr 10-16, 2008.
For the most part, you all will have to police yourself here, but I’ve learned a bit of how to manage things, so I’ll delete the worst of them, as I see them. That’s the best I can do at present, as I simply don’t have time to be on this forum 24/7.
if you dont like it, read the paper version..
Dear Hesitant,I totally agree with you. I mentioned this a few times about commenting on the original post, but some people just like to spew vibal diarrehea that goes nowhere. I do enjoy reading feedback that pertains to the subject that is mentioned.Ducking for an attack!
I agree with OP, too — a spirited debate among participants is one thing, but self-indulgence on the part of some of the regulars is quickly reducing this forum to “masturbatory crap,” as the OP put it.Sorry, guys, but it’s true. No offence intended to anyone in particular, but it is true.
I for one, would like to go on record and say that I enjoy the masturbatory crap. It all part of the game… Unlike the real world, where political correctness has really gone too far, here is a place where you can speak your mind, say your piece, and where necessary tell someone to GFY. You stand or fall based on your words alone… If you make a statement, you better prepared to back it up, if called upon to do so.. And that sounds like a level playing field to me… If you expose your self (as some have done) as someone pretending to be someone or something that they’re not, than you can pretty much expect to be caught on it… And punished accordingly… As far I know, and strongly suspect, nobody is “required” to read here, or post here. It is purely for entertainment and exchange of ideas. Unlike the real world no one here can ever get really hurt… But if you do, I hasten to add, it is probably your own fault…It only takes a quick look to get the flavor of what this is all about… And if it is not for you, move on.. If you like it, as I did alamost right away, take some time to get to know who the various players are, old and new, regular posters and occasionals… It really is a pretty intersting group of people… Some smarter tahn others, some stronger personalities than others, some quick tempers, and some more easy going… I can tell some people give a lot of thought to what they write… Some people (like me today) are just banging on the keys as the ideas come through the head… But it doesn’t matter who you are… It what you say that counts…If this forum became a heavily moderated, rule laden, kindergarten, I would be the first one to pull the plug… This place already works great. Don’t fuck it up by trying to fix it…
Floyd, I agree with you, too. But I don’t think the OP was asking for a heavily moderated, rule laden forum, or for political correctness. I get the impression OP’s problem is with people spending so much time “attacking each other,” rather than commenting on the topics, and I tend to think the OP has a point on that score.OP, could you sign in and clarify for us?
Hey guys, it’s me, Joe Hesitant. I’m all for debate on the Coast’s Bitch forum, except when you guys start sniping at each other on a personal level. I don’t want a bunch of rules, or a moderated forum. But, come on, some of you must be spending hours every day going over who is secretly who, whether this person is really that person, what stupid things this person said that proves he’s really that person, and on and on. It all gets a bit childish, you know? Is this the best use of a wide-open, unmoderated forum like this? Don’t you guys — I’m talking to the people who devote most of their comments to attacking other posters — have anything better to do with your time?I know, I know: if I don’t like it, I don’t have to read it. But I *want* to read the Coast’s Bitch forum, because I think it has a lot to say. I just want you guys who keep turning it into your own little ego-fests to maybe shut up and stop attacking each other. And, by the way, the whole “if you don’t like it, or if you don’t agree with me, you can go away” mentality? You guys say that all the time, to people who disagree with you, and it’s really weak.
Mort I think the salting post is the only posting I witnessed you doing that…you have some pretty solid contributions to this forum and I don’t think anyone is going to hold it against you, matter of fact I think everyone should not hold anything against the mentioned group, as long as the behavior is corrected then there is no need to continue any grudges as it will lead us all back to this same situation.
Thanks, Christopher. I appreciate your sense of fair play, which is something else that is sorely lacking in way too many of the postings here.
Uhhh did some posts just get removed or what? Where did the posts referencing the Salt the damn driveway go? people noticed Mort had engaged in the hecklers…but that he was sorry and that he was owning up to what he had done…?!?!?
No thanks needed Mort, I think everyone is one the same page with just wanting LTWWB to return to it’s roots. Everyone can unknowingly step off the path and get lost (Myself included)…it happens, part of being human really and I meant what I said, you do have some pretty darn solid contributions to discussions here.
I’m glad to see some names on this thread full of such constructive comments rather than the usual hate-the-bitchers bitching these posts usually are about. I tend to agree that a lot of the substance has been lost lately and replaced with a lot of banter that is probably only entertaining to a few. The main point I would like to add here, and it is not meant to be inflammatory in any way, but over the last few weeks, with the exception of mortimer and floyd, I have not noticed many of the other names on this thread posting comments to the main bitches. I think threads can stay on topic if commenters keep them there. However, if people are not posting because they can’t sift through the “crap’ then there is definately a problem here. If that is the case, I apologize for my part in it. I personally enjoy both the trash talk and the good debate aspects of this site and would like to find a way for everyone to get along to make this site better. I find a lot of the “childishness” (fun) happens out of boredom when the new bitches are not worth bitching about. It should also be noted that The salt the driveway bitch was taken over to be a dedicated mud-slinging page, but it hasn’t worked out because it gets lost as new posts come up. A dedicated thread for that kind of heckling and horseplay might help this situation a bit. Let’s keep the ideas and comments coming so we can hopefully figure out a resolution to this problem, that hopefully does not have to resort to banning people. As floyd said, there is a very diverse and interesting population on here, and I think everyone is needed to keep this on-line community vibrant (and colourful).
Nice. I just posted my opinion and it was deleted. Glad to see freedom of speech is still around.
I’ve been following along reading most of the proverbial garbage that has been shit all over this forum namely by matt and his little side-kicks. Although, before I get sprayed with this same shit I will agree that they sometimes do submit some strong valid opinions and arguments. I also don’t think that they should be banned from the forum because everyone has this own flavour and style that makes this forum interesting. However, as of late, it had been nothing but “Ginger bashing” and condemning anyone who disagrees with the regular posse of being the ever so popular “Ginger” or “Jane”. If you don’t like them, then why wouldn’t you just ignore her? Or did you just like ridiculing her for the fun of it until she went away? Early on in life people learn that provoking something (or someone) and paying any attention to it will only irritate it and cause it to become more annoying. Much like a pimple, the more you pick and squeeze at it the bigger and uglier it gets. Just leave it alone and it will be gone in a couple of days. So why don’t you just treat these annoying posters like a pimple and ignore them and they will eventually get bored and leave. Sure, this is the “bitch section” or so named “love the way we bitch”, but not “love the way we bitch at each other” as I’m sure has been mentioned before. If you have an intelligent opinion or argument then hit the submit button, but if you’re just going to use uneducated and unintelligent banter, such as calling someone a “retard” or a “fag” or telling them to “go fuck off somewhere” (as is commonly used by matt who I’m only using because he is a prime example), for your argument then maybe you should re-read what you just wrote and think about how immature and child-like you sound.
Okay, i think we’re getting a little dramatic here. This is just a message board. Noone is suffering, noone is dying. New bitches are still commented on, and you can still debate about whatever you like. The Ginger thing was annoying, but there was a little entertainment in it as well. There will always be flaming on an open forum..no big deal. This site is fine the way it is, and if you’re getting that upset over something this trivial, i suggest you find a new problem.
Actualy Qwerty, I think this forum would be more productive and discussion would go much further without the likes of you around. Just my humble opinion and all, being a sellout yuppy myself.Honestly, if you have something to contribute please do, but leave your apparent social interaction issues at the front door.
I should just point out that majority of the people who posted on this bitch…agree with the OP (if you haven’t noticed). And I’m not upset, I’m simply stating my opinion, I’m going to cry over the fact that you and matt don’t agree with me. Try saying something intelligent and worth reading the next time you post.
“Honestly, if you have something to contribute please do, but leave your apparent social interaction issues at the front door.” -love it
whoops…I mean “not going to cry over…” (I’ll correct myself before you go get all excited).
matt, qwerty and poop are childish assholes, especially matt, who irritated me right from the start with his semi-literate verbal rants and qwerty and poop as his retarded Greek Chorus. I used to post on this board until these 3 stooges took it over with their utter crap about Ginger/Jane/Whoever.
Ok and here we are provided yet another prime example, I do not see how Mort and I have “instigated” you by bringing up our very valid concerns. No if we don’t like we don’t have to “just leave” as you so eloquently pointed out, further proving our point. We can have an open discussion about it with anyone that wants to, and if YOU don’t like then how about bringing something more credible to the table other than your suggestion to just leave.
This thread was started to rid the board of flaming. Isn’t it a little contradictory that a few of you are now using it to flame some of the posters? Think about it.
You are all being mean!!!!I’m telling….
We’re not flaming you poop…we’re just stating the obvious facts. You brought those on yourself.
No..i’m pretty sure you’re flaming. That’s okay though, because i’m a big girl and i can handle it. I just wanted to point out that you’re contradicting yourself. It didn’t take very long.
“You brought those on yourself.” – Carl, you’ve really got me trembling..i mean, what will the prepercussions of my actions be!??Petrified.
Matt, I’d like to see some proof for your “Shadowiskideboomboom = Jane” accusation? (proof that actually makes sense…)
matt = paranoid asshole
Like I said…I’m only re-stating things that you actually did. If anything you’re flaming yourself.
Ugh, the jane thing was a joke. It’s ALWAYS a joke. That’s the joke. It’s kind of a running gag. Sheesh.
Yep, flaming oneself is the new rage. All the kids are doing it.
So I’m being attacked by a bunch of people who are here to bitch about attacking people. I heart irony.Matt, don’t you recognize your old adversary from back in the day? That’s Elbee.
Isn’t it funny how when someone disses matt, he screams and points that the poster is a Jane or a Ginger? This would be so funny if it weren’t so pathetic. No, I’m not Jane or Ginger, just a former poster who is fed up with the antics of 3 pinheads with too much time on their hands.
This is getting funnier by the minute, qwerty.
I think there should be two forums: One for people with no sense of humor, and another looser, more enjoyable board. It’s apparent that certain people just cannot comprehend a joke. Loosen up your buttcheeks and laugh. It’s easy, i promise.
Sorry, my previous post said “expect” when it should be “except.” Whoopsy.Also, could we discuss the distinction between flaming and legitimate critical commentary? It appears some of the posters here fail to understand there is a distinction, and (perhaps by accident) they use one form of expression when they should be using the other.
“At least when we were flaming they woudl get people reading, look what you turned it into, not us.”Did I not already point out that majority of people who posted to this bitch (excluded your little posse) agree with the OP? So, it appears that your flaming isn’t as wanted as you may think.
Can I just say that I really appreciate the comments of everyone who addressed my original post? I am glad to see there is a community of posters who enjoy engaging in a lively debate without resorting to name-calling or cowardly misdirection.Can I also suggest that perhaps the best way for us to explain to the small group of regulars who prefer to waste our time with the ol’ “is this person really that person” game, and other masturbatory pursuits, is simply to ignore them? Why don’t we let them talk amongst themselves, while we pursue this rather interesting discussion (if I do say so myself, being the OP) of the nature of reasoned debate?
Which is why a dedicated thread for trash talk might be appropriate. That is the only real suggestion I have seen made on this thread which was supposed to be about finding a way to make this forum enjoyable for everyone. Anyone else have anyother reasonable suggestions? Elbee…good to know you didn’t disappear all together…I liked reading your posts though.
Miles, I agree completely. In fact (toot-toot) I made that very suggestion myself, back on April Fool’s Day. Allowing the folks who want to spend their time bashing each other, and name-calling, and whatnot to rant back and forth in their own thread would allow the rest of us to get on with our own discussions. Mr. Bousquet, is this something the Coast can do? I am sure a lot of readers would be grateful.
Joe, i’d love to know where this “community of posters who enjoy engaging in a lively debate without resorting to name-calling or cowardly misdirection” is. All i’ve seen here is one giant pile of contradictory shit. You’ve done nothing but start a shitstorm, but hey, way to go. You’re a real saint..i just hope you can hear me from your cozy little nook way up in the web nazi’s butt.
I guess what I don’t get Raoul, is if there are so many people out there that want to post without the trash talk then if they all posted, the debate should drown out the flames. Where are these people on the the other comment threads? Go through the last 2-3 pages of bitches and you will see that a lot of those lurking regulars have lots of room to post on threads that have not “degenerated”. Why are they not posting? Do they need someone to start them off? If they have so many useful and productive things to say, they should start saying them!!! If you are right, there are lots of people out there ready to respond in intelligent ways
Mortimer, if you took a break from kissing ass maybe you’d see that you’re just as guilty of spewing a lot of the useless shit you’re accusing other people of. And here you are trying to fuel the fire with the name game. Give it a rest buddy.
*all chanting*DEDICATED THREAD! DEDICATED THREAD!
Pay attention, poop. We covered this hours ago. I did contribute to the spewing some anti-Ginger foolishness on the “pave the sidewalk” thread, but then I backed away from all that. I owned up to that earlier, on this thread. As for the name game, you’re playing that, you and your friends. Not me.
the coast could also open up a “ltwwb” chat room or something along those lines…. or a facecrack page
Miles 🙂
Mortimer + Jane = Ginger.
Sorry Mortimer. I didn’t realize were a reformed asshat. My mistake.
lalala, I’d never get any work done if this was real time. I am anti-chat room.
It’s wonderous what a little sweeping out can do – thank you, Cyber Gawd. Oh my cripes, I can hear the birdies singing.
Elbee, i LOVE your icon, and that movie. 🙂
Yes, Web Nazi, thank you very much. Now it’s possible to follow the thread of the OP’s original post.
Thanks, poop. Reflects my 60s beliefs which I sold sometime in the 80s.
The only verbal bashing and attacks I can see are coming from the very people that this bitch was created to point out. I see people trying to have a discussion on how to improve the situation and I see a very specific group of people proving the very points they are attacking people for bringing up.”You’ve done nothing but start a shitstorm” How did we do that poop? Did we make up complete fabrications of the truth, did we call you an asshat for owning up to your part in the childishness? There are people on here trying to start a shitstorm but all they are doing is proving the OP statements as right.You ask where are all the people trying to have a valid discussion? I think you have been too busy furthering your own entertainment and stroking your bruised inner-self to notice that other than you and your “gang” everyone else is trying to figure out a way to show how unfair you are being to everyone else without you becoming too offended and attacking everyone. Too late obviously
Miles, I wasn’t inferring that there are a large number of people just waiting to post but after re-reading the post I understand how it could be interpreted that way. My point was that I have noticed a number, I don’t know how many exactly, of long time posters that are not contributing as regularly as they once did and that would include myself. Some of those people have posted here, on this thread, so it’s obvious there are others that feel the same way I do.For starters I don’t post on threads that do not interest me. Furthermore, why bother when a good thread (and I’m not saying all threads) goes to shit. I have no interest in scrolling through the self absorbed tripe to make a comment that will only get buried in the next round of insults.I’d rather just move on
Looks like a bunch of comments have been deleted. Gotta love copy and paste baby:I read this post this morning when there was about a dozen comments that had a lot of great input on both sides of the arguement. Look how it has evolved once the rubber knife gang got a hold of it. It’s gone to shit just like many other recent threads and that’s probably why some long time posters (myself included) have somewhat bailed.When did love the way we bitch become love the way we burn? I have noticed myself how many former regulars are no longer posting here. Ironically many of you have posted on this thread so it seems obvious that we are still out there waiting patiently for this to subside; only it hasn’t.Why can’t people be challenged on their opinion through rational discussion? It’s cool to have a forum where you can disagree with someone on local issues and have a good back and forth about it. Maybe some people don’t have the life experience to be articulate about it but their opinion is not any less valid than anybody else. It’s the name calling and constant conspiracy theories that are bogging everything down. More often than not someone resorting to name calling simply doesn’t have anything more to offer on the subject at hand … again, just my opinion.I think a dedicated thread for insults is a great idea. At least if someone wants to venture in there you know what the deal is and it might open up the other threads for some discussion without sifting through all the garbage.
MY LAST POSTI just noticed that some relevant but provocative comments I posted here last night have been deleted… i.e CENSORED… They were moderately inflammatory I suppose, but pale in comparison to a lot of what I have read here… I thought when the web nazi said we will have to police ourselves that would be good enough… But obviously it wasn’t. so the crybabies get their way… Congratu-fucking-lationsI have never once read anything on this site that was shocking or hurtful… I have read others comment that their posts have been deleted, but did not appreciate the feeling of emptiness that it caused, until now… 2112 all over again…To qwert, poop, matt, miles and others who believe in the idea of one voice per person, and ONE PERSON per voice… Rock on and keep up the good fight… Cause I am done and OUT OF HERE.
Hi Christopher. Good to see you’re still alive and well.
Yup. One of my comments was deleted (on the “Move Over” bitch about polite merging). And it wasn’t remotely inflamatory. What is going on here? I don’t care that my comment was deleted. What bothers me is that someone else might make an interesting and valid comment, and that it might be arbitrarily deleted before I get a chance to read it.
Floyd!? Qwerty?!? NOOOOO!!!!!!!Say it ain’t so…..Maybe there is just a glitch in the Matirx!!! Maybe? Please!?That’s it, a glitch, that’s all…it’s cool guys. (Denial is still stage 1 right?)
Hey poopy: Alive but not so well…fighting off the flu right now :(I know we lock horns lots but I also know we have on the occasion been able to communicate without warring…I want to propose something here to you.I know you have good points to add to discussions…I have seen it, and I know that sometimes people just piss you off…me too! I want to ask you to make a pact with me., a pact to ease up a bit. I have already eased up my “right-wing burn the criminals at the stake regardless of what law was broken” rants and all I ask is that you chill and help matt chill too, because I know he can add intelligent and some pretty solid points of view to this forum but can also be very easily distracted with flame wars.I know it can be so easy sometimes and some people practically set themselves up for it…but lets turn a new page and bring this back to debate rather than two groups of people standing 3 feet away from each other hurling rocks.
Floyd, sorry to see you’re leaving. Just to clarify, if the Coast deletes comments after they have been posted, that’s not censorship. Censorship is preventing a book from being published, a movie from being made, a comment from being posted. It is the unilateral decision that ideas should not be put before the public. If your comments were posted, then you haven’t been censored. Your ideas were put before the public. They may have been removed afterwars, but they weren’t censored beforehand. Naturally I’m not saying your comments should have been removed. I’m talking about the notion of censorship, and not implying anything about your own posts.Perhaps you could hang around and continue to add to the dialogue?
Christopher: I don’t intend to lock horns with you..you’re alright, sometimes we disagree, sometimes we don’t. That’s the point here. I’ll admit, i can get carried away and things get off topic, and if i thought i was seriously damaging anyone’s self esteem by doing so, i wouldn’t go there. I’m all for debate..but i still stand by the idea of one off-topic thread, so those who don’t want to be involved can avoid that type of conversation. I don’t like the idea of a moderated forum..i think a lot of people would agree that “free speech” is what keeps it interesting here.
Am I wrong to think that this forum was originally intended to be “Love the Way We Bitch (about things going on in our community)” and not “Love the Way We Bitch (about each other)”?I’m just asking. I’ve been seeing some of the comments posted on other threads from people who don’t like it that some of their posts have been deleted. Could it be that the Coast is just trying to get the whole forum back on track, and focused?
I never had a problem with qwerty or poop until matt showed up. It was like the playground bully showing up and ruining everything as far as I was concerned. That’s why I bailed. I don’t need to be insulted or told what a loser I am, especially by someone who knows absolutely nothing about me, other than I (according to matt) posted far more than HE liked. After a fair period of harrassment, I became an observer rather than a contributor and what I observed in the following weeks was appalling – that this moronic blowhard could drive so many posters away was mind-blowing, posters who had constructive things to say, who didn’t have to resort to tearing someone to shreds for the sake of adding some kind of excitement to their existence. I honestly believe matt gets off on all this conflict while most of us here would much rather agree to disagree and address the original post. There’s nothing wrong with bantering and teasing but, over the last while, the taunts have not only crossed the line but played double dutch with it.
Oh I agree with having a side-line topic where it’s a free-for-all, and I also agree that this forum shouldn’t be moderated.What’s with the non-offensive posts disappearing eh? My only objective was for some of the really off topic and out of line comments to be reeled back in a bit…there is free speech and then there is abuse of free speech or just abuse.When you and matt are chill and inputing awesome points…things tend to stay on track more. It’s not that you two are ring-leaders or anything, but there are some that follow your lead, they emulate you two more so than anyone else and then the comments start to feed off of each other and things take a definitive slide after that.Sometimes you and matt’s powers are needed to bring someone who IS out-of-line back into the subject and at those times I do support a little bashing or flaming, but you have to admit that there are times when your superpowers have been over-used. ; )
If you are right joe, then it is becoming a moderated forum, and that is not what a lot of people want. Like the Web Nazi said, we have to police ourselves a bit…I think we are all adult enough to do that, we just need to figure out what people want….and some people so want to have this be a fun place and a place with a little bit of all-in-good-fun mud slinging. Sure, that mud slinging isn’t always in good fun and it’s pissing people off…but no reason to change the whole format of the bitch section.
Miles: While I agree that it started out as “all in good fun” the past two weeks or so things have gotten way out of proportion and I think the statement “you all just have to police yourselves” might have been a warning…now we are witnessing what happens when we don’t police some of the more out-of-line comments. Now they are going to do it themselves and it is not going to be pretty because we forced them to that point after they gave the LLWB community repeated opportunities to stop.
Well put, Ellbee. On their own Qwery and poop can be very constructive contributors, and even matt chimes in with some good points now and then (see his comments on the capital punishment thread, they’re well put and well thought out). But you’re right: matt did behave much too often like a playground bully, a ringleader. You can tell when he’s being the bully: his posts are full of spelling errors and gibberish. When he’s putting forth reasoned comments, he’s writing like an adult who has something to say. Matt, if you’re reading this, this is not intended as an attack on you, a flame, or anything like that. It is intended as constructive criticism. You really do contribute, from time to time, some solid perspective to this forum. But not nearly as much as you used to. As Smithers once said about Monty Burns, you crossed the line between everyday villainy and cartoonish super-villainy. This forum needs a dissenting voice, someone who injects a strong opinion, even (and especially) a controversial, right-angle opinion that makes us all think in a new direction. You’re good at that, when you’re not launching verbal attacks at people who disagree with you.Remember, it’s your right to disagree with people, and it’s equally their right to disagree with you. This can be done with well-chosen words and thoughts, and not with insults.
Me again. I just wanna say that I feel like we’ve all made some real progress here today. (Jeez, that sounds cheerleadery — sorry.)It’s very encouraging. Maybe we can police ourselves, if we all agree to behave like adults. (Now I sound like my mother.)
Still waiting to hear in from Tim about the deleted posts….if a lot of innocent stuff is getting taken down, maybe it’s not something intentional.
It’s true though, I think we have made progress towards a better LTWWB!I feel all rosy inside…though that just may be the flu fever kicking into high gear…ugh I hate being sick!
I agree, this is probably the best thread I’ve contributed to in quite some time. A lot of articulate well thought out responses.Grrrrrr, I feel the need to bitch about something!
wow.. the more you read this post, the more you realize how right the original OP was!
Dear Web Nazi. Would you please be so kind as to enlighten us as to exactly what kinds of posts are acceptable in this Brave New World of Bitchery, so that we will not waste our time writiing carefully worded responses that will be deleted a few moments later? Thanks.
Ok, big news… Lynn and NMH are friends in real life :-)This is Lynn talking, not NMH…I wanted to respond to this thread and the talk of censorship and deleted posts. Since I flamed ex-haligonian for being the “r-word” since I apparently can’t say that word here, my account has been frozen for the past 2 days and I can no longer log in and post comments- talk about censorship! I guess Tim feels as though challenging people who make “r-word” comments has no place on this fourm. That is why I am using NMH’s account.So, I am taking this opportunity to say goodbye to you all and its been a real pleasure (as well as fun procrastination) debating with everyone- agreements and disageements. I have no use for a website blog that appears to be run by a real nazi- probably for the best since I procrastinate way too much here anyway. It’ll be really fun to see how long it takes “Tim” to delete this one! Oh and Tim, don’t bother about deleting NMH’s account too- I won’t be using it again!Bt the way Ellbee… its nice to see you back here!
to clarify there are 2 janes i am way to lazy to change my name when i post so jane d’oh is me and will be posted as is
to clarify there are 2 janes i am way to lazy to change my name when i post so jane d’oh is me and will be posted as is