A certain Power Company is spraying toxic herbicides on the trees along the routes of their power poles and lines. This is happening in Lunenburg County, in Halifax County and other counties… They are using the herbicide Tordon 101. This is a combination of 2, 4-D and Picloram. Both of these herbicides have dire consequences to humans, animals, birds and fish that come into contact with it. It will also contaminate our precious ground water…
2,4-D is one of the chemicals the defoliant Agent Orange is composed of.
“Despite industry efforts claiming the safety of this chemical, there is a large body of evidence indicating major health effects from cancer to immunosuppression, reproductive damage to neurotoxicity. The teratogenic, neurotoxic, immunosuppressive, cytotoxic and hepatoxic effects of 2,4-D have been well documented.
The report by the Ontario College of Physicians linked 2,4-D exposure during pregnancy and childhood to a two-fold increase in the incidence of leukemia, and in their study they also found links to sterility, respiratory problems, atrophy and non-hodgkins lymphoma.”
The following organizations support the banning of 2,4-D:
Agent Orange Association of Canada
Canadian Cancer Society
Canadian Medical Association
Canadian Public Health Association
Ontario College of Family Physicians
Ontario Public Health Association
Registered Nurses Association of Ontario
Childrens Hospital of Eastern Ontario
Humane Society of Canada
Ottawa Humane Society
The Eastern Shore succeeded in stopping spraying in their area by protesting.
They do have an alternative they can cut the trees and brush that encroach on the power lines. This would be safer for everyone, especially the workers doing the spraying or cutting…
Call today, and tell them how you feel about being poisoned.
This is worse than paying way too much for unreliable power.
—woods mama
This article appears in Jun 25 – Jul 1, 2009.
These are the same deadly toxins that were sprayed at Gagetown along with Agent Orange, with disasterous results for those exposed to it!!! DO NOT under any circumstances pick any berries growing in the cleared areas. They will be deadly!!!
A couple of years ago I called the power company to ask if the berries in these cleared areas were safe and was told that a year after spraying they would be safe. WRONG!!! These toxins remain in the environment for decades after use!!! They end up in the table water supplies! They need to be banned from use NOW!
You also might want to contact the NS Enviro Clinic in Fall River…they already have all the research/documentation on what this does to peoples’ health and assisted an NPO in bringing the matter to the HRM which is why we cannot use any herbicides here….. contact Anne at 860-0057….
The person to contact at N.S. Power is:
Robert Young (902) 456-1820
I have lost 2 family members to cancer & I have been in a battle with lymphoma for 11 years because of those same chemicals that we were exposed to in Gagetown,please for the sake of your health & your families stop this poisoning before it’s too late !!
I’m surprised that there is anyone over 40 still living considering all the dangers out there. Groan.
Jesus Christ, is it even okay to go outside anymore? And am I allowed to eat food? Can someone please tell me what in the fuck will NOT kill me these days?
Gagetown Victim: I share your grief. Our family was victimized in 1960’s Gagetown too by chemical exposure to these deadly toxins that were used as well as Agent Orange!
Everyone else: Obviously this isn’t about which foods may kill you! This is about purposeful poisoning for the sake of convenience. When you have lost a family member after helplessly watching them suffer horribly for years because our government chooses convenience over human lives then you might understand how important this issue really is. Rest in peace Dad…
Maybe instead of whining about it on the internets, you should go out and actually do something something about it, eh?
The mixture in Agent Orange, etc were much denser (many more parts per million) and for a different purpose than what is used commercially.
Sorry to hear about the family losses…..{ roses}
I have worked steadily as an Agent Orange activist since 2004 and have compiled vast amounts of medical journal literature on the subject of Agent Orange and others of the ‘Rainbow Spectrum’ of chemical defolients, including Tordon 101 and Picloram. I know of what I speak.
These toxins are deadly no matter what the chemical companies spout about their dilution and safety. Medical science has proven this time and time again. The scientific facts are where the proof lies.
The Gagetown victims know the truth…as they bury their dead. Tordon 101 and Picloram were used at Gagetown, not just Agent Orange, all with deadly results.
These deadly chemical toxins have no place on a healthy planet, without which, we all die! But let’s just bury our heads in the sand and continue to poison Mother Earth and see where that gets us! For a so-called intelligent species we sure do make some idiotic choices!
People have been trying to fight the Government on these issues regarding Agent Orange & other disease causing chemicals for many years,they have held rallies,sent petitions,wrote countless letters ,there has been mention of this on the News and in Papers.The people who have lost family members because of the poisons sprayed in Gagetown will never give up the fight untill there is a full public inquiry.Those of you that don’t understand what the big deal is need to educate yourself on this issue.Go to the website for “The Gagetown Movie” Canada’s dirty secret & watch the trailor and listen to the people that were interviewed,maybe it will help you see the dangers thousands of soldiers & their families were subjected to without being aware of it.
Wow, just like every other activist out there. You wait until something like Agent Orange becomes detailed on the news, and then all of a sudden, you lay claim to years of activism. What a load. As far as the “Gagetown Movie” is concerned, why should I watch a film shot by some sycophantic Spielberg wannabe, with what would be absolutely no balance. It’s not that I don’t feel for the people who have affected by this; I do. In fact, I had family who died of cancer who lived in the Gagetown, and I’ve often thought of that as the cause. I, however, have moved on instead of becoming just another victim.
After so many years of trying to educate people about these products, I am pleased to see others speaking out. Herbicide, Pesticide, Insecticide are all names that are describing the act of killing. Check the definition of the suffix, CIDE at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-cide
The victims of Gagetown were also told, from 1956 until present that the chemicals were safe because they were sold commercially yet many died due to their exposure. A human made chemical that kills living plants or insects can do damage to humans too, it only makes COMMON SENSE. The thing is that there are other ways to accomplish what these chemicals were manufactured to do and we just have to open our minds to accept change. Today’s science is teaching us that change is needed because our world and our LIVES are to important for us to refuse change.
webmaster@agentorangecanada.com
“Maybe instead of whining about it on the internets, you should go out and actually do something something about it, eh?”
Gosh fever, if the OP has even losers like you redonion and bro tim, maybe not thinking about, but at least commenting, ‘on the internets’, then I guess that’s doing something… Apparently unlike what YOU would do:
“In fact, I had family who died of cancer who lived in the Gagetown, and I’ve often thought of that as the cause. I, however, have moved on instead of becoming just another victim.” How very progressive of you to just move on. Just like the rats on a sinking ship.
Getting the info out about, and stopping the spraying will save many living things, including humans, from unnecessary pain. Let’s make our voices heard b4 it’s too late to stop this blasphemy.
Thank you to all who have educated me on this topic…I had no idea…. keep on keeping on with your activism….it is people like yourselves that ARE the subjects for change…
I love quotes and all apply….
‘In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.’
George Orwell
‘Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has’. Margaret Meade (1901-1978)
‘The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments’. William H. Borah
‘I have expressed an opinion on public issues whenever they appeared to me so bad and unfortunate the silence would have made me feel guilty of complicity’. Albert Einstein ( p35- Ideas and Opinions)
“A human made chemical that kills living plants or insects can do damage to humans too, it only makes COMMON SENSE”
Actually, it doesn’t make common sense. Not all life is the same, and plants and animals have very different biology. If agent orange caused my leaves to fall off, you might be right.
Antibiotics and fungicides come to mind when thinking about chemicals that kill some life (bacteria and fungi) but not humans.
I’m not saying herbicides don’t have an effect on humans because some surely do. I’m just pointing out that they don’t have to.
And I forget who said it but:
“People who quote others to make their arguments can’t think for themselves”
“Dr” Fever…your ignorance on this subject is belittling to yourself and the many thousands of Gagetown victims who suffered horribly for decades before dying of their illnesses.
My years of activism began when this tragedy became public knowledge in 2004. This is not a “load”, as you so cleverly articulate! This is real.
You know nothing of the years of hard work that I and others have contributed, at our own expense, to try to bring justice to those who were so wronged, since learning of the rainbow spectrum of defolients used at Gagetown, including tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin aka TCDD aka Agent Orange! It is not about moving on, it is about government responsibility and accountability.
You appear to know nothing of the suffering of the victims, many of whom devoted decades of their lives to serve their country and protect the freedom of us all, even your freedom to dis what happened to them!
Perhaps if it happened to one of your parents you would have more insight into how truly horrible these toxins affect the human body. Obviously you are not a real doctor or you would:
a) have more compassion, and
b) have access to medical literature that proves without a doubt the deadliness of defolients upon humans and laboratory test species before spouting your insulting diatribe.
Hey Oceanlady, you should look up the virtues of nicotine since you know so much about pesticides. Look it up and then come back here and ask the doctor why all smokers do not drop dead when they light up… before spewing more of your own “diatribe.”
Oceanlady, can you provide links to your scientific data that says these things are deadly to humans? I’m curious and having a hard time tracking them down. Thanks.
if it kills the dandelions and chinch bugs who gives a big, fat, toxic, festering, fiddle playing, fuckadoodle-doo
Miles from home: My scientific data was obtained through many, many hours of research at the Dal medical library searching out all the available data in journals of medicine and medical textbooks on the subject.
Kay: I am failing to make the connection between nicotine which people choose knowing the dangers and deadly toxic defolients whose victims were not given a choice. Nicotine MAY kill some users. TCDD et al WILL kill all who are exposed to it. Your argument lacks any kind of merit.
Nicotine is one of the most effective natural pesticides on the planet… one of the deadliest poisons out there! Back to Dal with you, Oceanlady.
Nicotine used to be the preferred way to kill kings too. What are they teaching you there?
So, since you seem to be the expert here Oceanlady, can you explain to me, specifically, what the problem is with the defoliant NS power is spraying? Also, aside from the spraying of Agent Orange in Gagetown in the 1960’s, what compounds specifically were soldiers exposed to in the 80’s after dioxins were supposedly removed from the defoliants?
Finally, the news reports I have found relating to the Gagetown situation do not indicate the types or numbers of health problems faced by soldiers other than those who were directly handling the herbicides containing the dioxins.
I guess I would like some actual evidence that the
herbicides being sprayed by NS power pose a real health risk when used in the way they are using them.
Also, if there are one or two articles that you think are the most significant, I can track them down if you have any or all of the article title, authors, publication date and journal. Again, I’m curious, but the articles I find are not definitive with respect to linking pircloram or 2,4-D to human health problems.
The problem is using what is known now for judging what happened way back when, whether alcohol, tobacco, herbicides, radiation, etc.
yes “bro Tim” you are so right… but it is doubly terrible that the Government & Companies will not learn along with us as science learns.. I have to ask why anyone is till telling people that the chemicals will not hurt them?
“Miles” you can check http://www.agentorangecanada.com or even a google search ‘dioxin and human health’ for some information that might help you understand some of the chemical problems, you can find some information from scientist…
Discussion is good…
Kay: I was referring to the toxic effects of defoliants used at Gagetown, of which nicotine is not included. My post was about these defoliants, your original post was about the effects of nicotine upon smokers, not it’s use as a defoliant, to which I failed to draw a comparison.
Miles from home: There is so much medical literature supporting links between the chemicals used at Gagetown, surely some of it is available online? It is hard to choose one or two when there is so much available concerning the effects upon the various organs of the human body. For cardiovascular effects try:
-Cardiovascular Toxicol.2001;1(4):285-98.
Dioxin exposure is an environmental risk factor for ischemic heart disease.
PMID: 12213967
-Cardiovascular Toxicology
Daniel Acosta, Jr. PhD
-Cardiovasc Toxicol. 2003;3(4):299-310
Increase in cardiovascular pathology in female Sprague-Dawley rats following chronic treatment with 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin and 3,3′,4,4′,5-pentachlorobiphenyl
PMID:14734827
I don’t profess to be an expert on the subject, but I’ve read vast amounts of medical literature and recognize that the toxicity of these chemicals upon humans and other species is real.
Actually, what I find amusing, is this: this whole thing will disappear when the “victims” receive government money. It’s exactly what happened during the tainted blood scandal. Everything is terrible until the government makes a 12000 dollar deposit into your account, and when they do, everything is quite alright. You and Mcgayle sound like people who have just stepped into university and you’ve read a book or two, and all of a sudden, you’re not only an expert, and you can spew a bunch of quotes. You’re a part of a “movement”. It’s bullshit. All I’m saying is that most of the people that are effected by it are only concerned about money and will shut up as soon as they get their “apology”.
I’m not talking about smoking it! OMG, how can I spell it out to you any clearer? Nicotine is one of the deadliest substances on the planet and is commonly used the world over as pesticide. If you can’t see how that’s relevant I really can’t help you but you insist on going on about toxicity that kills. I’m telling you a relatively minute amount of nicotine KILLS. Period. (Holy cow are you thick!) Doesn’t it make you wonder why human beings don’t drop dead when inhaling it? Opening minds isn’t my forte today, obviously. Oh well.
Thanks for the info Sandy and Oceanlady. I have also found a lot of literature and web resources about Dioxins.
I think the link that I am missing is between the herbicides used today by NS power (Tordon 101) and those containing dioxins. I agree that it is very clear that dioxins, which were contaminants in Agent Orange have obvious and severe negative health effects in humans. I am not convinced that the same is true for 2,4-D or picloram (the components of Tordon 101) which is what the OP is about.
The DND website, the manufacturer of Tordon 101 and Health Canada all suggest that this herbicide does not pose significant health risk to humans. Health Canada just re-evaluated (Jan 2009) the data on picloram and the consensus is that it is not a health risk. I appreciate the bias from Dow Chemicals as well as the DND website. I am more trusting of Health Canada’s findings (although they are a bit dated now (1990). I am not convinced by the information on the agent orange Canada website, perhaps because it is presented with a strong bias and the information is non-scientific in nature. There are significant statistics that are missing.
I find the list of medical concerns of service members to be anecdotal. How many service members were exposed? What % had negative health effects? How do these numbers compare to people with no exposure? etc. etc.
The agent orange Canada website points to the health risks of dioxins and agent orange but essentially presumes that the other agents must also be harmful. It provides limited evidence that any adverse health effects could be due to anything other than the dioxins in agent orange. Perhaps this is because no one has bothered to do a proper study to document the health of those exposed?
I am not trying to be contrary. I find this to be an important issue. But, with the information I have found, I am not certain that Tordon 101 poses a serious human health risk. I also don’t think there are definitive studies that say is does NOT pose a health risk either, so it is good to have this discussion. Either way, people should be aware of what NS power is spraying near their homes, and if there are safe and economical alternatives, they should be used.
>>>”Hey Oceanlady, you should look up the virtues of nicotine since you know so much about pesticides. Look it up and then come back here and ask the doctor why all smokers do not drop dead when they light up… before spewing more of your own “diatribe.””<<< The above are your words Kay…where you clearly are talking of smoking nicotine. (Holy cow indeed!) The subject of this thread is defoliants used by the power company as well as the ones used at Gagetown. My concern, from a personal point of view, is the various toxins used at Gagetown, their effects upon the human body, the fact that the power company uses some of the same and concern that berries found growing on power lines not be consumed under any circumstances because of the carcinogenic risks associated with them. It is nice of you to inform us all of the effects of nicotine as a herbicide but since it has not been used in the above mentioned capacities I fail to see your point regarding such, which you led with a comment about smokers. (See 1st paragraph above)
For the post that insinuates this is just about money & that once money is received from the Government everything will be okay.Can you put a price tag on your fathers life an uncle and a younger sister ? Can you put a price on what it’s worth to deal with an aggressive Lymphoma ? The drugs used to fight the Lymphoma causing renal failure & a heart condition? Our Government owes its soldiers & their families much more than money.How do you feel about the Americans spraying these poisons on Vietnam? The sickness and deformed children that these poisons caused? Do you honestly think that money can stop the suffering?Perhaps you should consider politics ,I think Harper & Thompson could use your help in trying to bury this subject.
I’m not trying to bury the subject, and let’s not bring Vietnam into this. Not only is that a different country, it was a different government. I’m just saying that 90 per cent of the people who are so-called victims will end up taking government shut-up money and walk away. There’s alot to be said about that. It happened with the tainted blood scandal (which, in all honesty, is far worse than the Gagetown situation) as well as the residential schools tragedy. I’m not putting a price tag on the lives of their families. It would appear that the opposite is true.
I wanted to point out human beings are not at the top of the food chain for nothin’… the smoking example would represent exposure (inhaling); nicotine is the formidable, (comparable?) deadly substance in the analogy. The point is there are few substances, in minute quantities and limited exposure, that can wipe out an entire human being.
Eat your Wheaties and, like the sign says, stay off the grass is my advice but I’ll admit I’m poorly educated on whatever a defoliant is. I’m sure it kills everything nicotine kills. There’s a natural alternative to propose. Why not take the nugget and run with it?
Dr Fever, let’s not forget the line ups for the Shelburne Fiasco. Giving out money without ascertaining if there was any merit to the Complainant’s claim.
Don’t eat the red berries
I ated the purple berries. They taste like burning.
Miles (from home) (and anyone else defending use of the defoliant),
I appreciate your digging for truth, but:
We use a ‘innocent until proven guilty’ system when it comes to people.
We use a ‘guilty until proven innocent’ system when it comes to drugs and some foods.
Do you think you are advocating the right system for noxious chemicals?
“Miles” following the path, starting with Tordon 101 and leading to Picloram which contains a contamant known as Hexachlorobenzene might help….
It can also be noted that the Chemical Companies do not have to list all the ingredients when labelling their products but only list what they choose as ACTIVE ingredients and leave off the inert ingredients. The watchdogs of our Government and that of the US are also forbidden by law to reveal the inert ingredients (trade secrets). So you can see how contaminants contained can be inert and therefore not listed…
The active ingredients of Tordon 101 are listed as Picloram + 2,4D
Picloram has been shown to carry a contaminant, Hexachlorobenzene
2,4D has been banned in many communities and now in some Provinces…
There are so many questions because we are dealing with LARGE companies and in Canada many of those that worked within the Canadian Health Canada/PMRA (Pest Management Regulatory Agency) came from the ‘Chemical Company World’ or have since become leaders within the ‘Chemical Company World’ so I must ask, Are we being protected from ‘dirty chemicals? or Are we being lead by Chemical Companies?
I have been gathering information for a long while and therefore others are right to say I could be bias and that is OK. I am just pleased that some are more interested in educating themselves because that is the only way to learn.
Miles said
And I forget who said it but:
“People who quote others to make their arguments can’t think for themselves”
If you were to use a cost-benefit scale it would show that to waste my time typing something someone else already said would make me a fool…..interesting that you could read my posts and think I am incapable of thinking and worse of all you had to slip it in at the end of your post like some lil school girl who has no friends…
I realize it may have happened too fast for you…but I have no argument here because it is intuitively obvious what side any intelligent evolved person would be sitting on….The quotes were posted because they fit…..nothing more complicated than that….
You seem to have me confused for others…I could not care less which of you supported any thing I said so to try to debate anything with most of you would be a pathetic waste of my time…..your opinions for the most part, mean nothing to me as well
..I only respect my peers which eliminates most of you anyway and to seek respect from folks lower than me on the phylogenetic scale would be an act of biological regression, the antithesis of evolution.
Again stop being a pussy..if you dont like my posts..ignore them
I’m not exactly defending the use of the defoliant. I am defending the use of good science to whether or not something is safe. If the alternative to NS power using herbicides is manual cutting which is more expensive, we will see that expense on our already too-high electrical bills.
I also agree that a guilty until proven innocent approach is a good idea when it comes to food and drug and chemical safety. I think that approach is pretty much in place however given the regulatory bodies involved in monitoring and studying these things before and after they hit the market.
Sandy, thank you again for the info, sorry if I can be a little obtuse at times. My understanding is that Hexachlorobenzene is no longer a contaminant in Tordon 101 (this info is also on the Agent Orange website). So, while it seems clear that the Gagetown situation is a serious one with very real potential and known health risks, I am not as convinced about the NS power spraying situation. I am obviously concerned though and would promote caution when using any herbicide this widely. The effects (or lack thereof) of these chemicals on humans and animals and the environment should be well-documented before they are approved for widespread use.
I am less concerned with the apparent bias mentioned with the associations of chemical companies and Canadian regulatory agencies. It is important to be skeptical when you see a conflict of interest like that, but at the same time it makes sense that you might want your inspectors to have experience in the “Chemical Company World” doesn’t it? Are they not the most qualified to understand what a chemical company might be trying to get away with? Also, without knowing how the regulatory industry works, it’s hard to comment on how great the potential for corruption in the system is. I may have to look into it more. However, I generally feel that Health Canada has a good track record for looking out for the interests of Canadian Health over corporate interests. Remember these are the guys who do all the product recalls and was one of the first to ban BPA in baby bottles. To me, they seem to act appropriately according to the scientific evidence. I am sure there are times when they drop the ball too.
Also, I didn’t mean to imply that your bias was necessarily a bad thing, it’s just noticeable, especially the Agent Orange website which has a very clear agenda. It’s not a source where I would expect a balanced argument, it’s the source I expect to make the strongest case against the use herbicides…and with respect to the Gagetown situation, it does that fairly well.
mcgayle, we’re so not worthy of your bitches. There’s none among us who could hold a candle to your prowess for debate *insert major eye roll*
BTW, your selective ignorance and penchant for trollism is showing, you twit. Indeed, it’s pathetic.
mcgayle….that was a joke. The funny part being that I was quoting someone who said quoting people makes you stupid. It was a self-deprecating joke too that poked fun at both of us.
But, as a wise person once said:
“…stop being a pussy..if you dont like my posts..ignore them”
Does anybody here understand what an inert substance does? It does nothing. It’s a stable substance. No interactions. For example, gold. If it’s inert, it’s not making you sick and it certainly doesn’t kill anything.
Anyway, I proposed a safe alternative and none of you addressed it at all. You’re just looking for fight. You’re not interested in solving the problem. You should go work for government. You’d fit right in.
Kay I think the issue was that the things they are calling “inert” may not actually be inert. They are labeling it that way so they don’t have to report the component to Health Canada or whichever body regulates their use.
And nobody is talking about your “safe alternative” for several reasons (assuming nicotine is your safe alternative).
1) You pretty much just came up with the idea here and didn’t really try to sell it as a safe alternative. You just said nicotine kills stuff.
2) You provided no real argument or evidence to suggest nicotine would be an effective or cost effective alternative to spraying or cutting.
3) It’s nicotine. We know it is also very toxic to humans, more so than the herbicides used. It doesn’t really sound like a safe alternative to me.
4) No one brought it up because they didn’t want to fight with you, not because they were looking for a fight.
5) If nicotine is such a potent herbicide, how do tobacco plants survive? Nicotine is toxic to people and insects, not plants. Which also speaks to one of my original points that things that are toxic to one life-form are not necessarily toxic to all.
Nicotine is used the world over as a natural pesticide. You’re all hot on this issue why not look up practices that have been going on for centuries?
Do you ever wonder how a blow fish survives while producing the world’s deadliest toxin inside its body? Transfer that same logic onto the tobacco plant. I’m pretty sure blow fish toxin can kill other fish. In fact, I’m pretty sure that’s what it’s for.
I’m not going to claim to be an expert on pesticide use but I do know tobacco is good for more than smoking and is often used on organic farms.
I’m not looking for a fight. I’m looking to open minds and cast light where maybe there was once none. Take it or leave it. Stereotypes do not become you, Miles.
I should also point out, I’ve referenced nicotine as a pesticide. I have no idea if it would function well as an herbicide (a shovel works pretty good). Also, to conclude the toxin is produced by a plant and therefore cannot become so toxic as to kill another kind plant is flawed logic. (ref, blow fish killing other fish with their toxin)
kay, I’m aware of the flawed logic in #5 but I included it as just another argument against the use of nicotine as an herbicide. It’s the last because it’s the weakest. Either way, in this case, it’s probably true. Nicotine is produced by the plant as an insecticide, not to kill competitor plants (which does happen in nature).
Anyway, I wasn’t trying to bust your hump, just address your accusation that people were ignoring your nicotine comment because we are not interested in solutions or looking for a fight. I just let you know why I didn’t pick up on your Nicotine comment. I didn’t think it was a good idea for the reasons listed and so I didn’t respond.
Also, using nicotine as a pesticide is a bad idea too, since it is also toxic to humans.
Miles, I appreciate your explanation, thank you……
okay you are not a pussy 😉