I just got hired permanent full-time in the department I’ve worked in since April 2007…2.5 years. Sounds great, right?
HR started me at the beginning of the salary scale for my job because according to their employment equity hiring formula, I would need two full years of full-time directly related experience to meet the criteria for the next salary step. I worked in the exact position as a full time casual for 5 months before my permanent hire, at the same desk since January, and my full-time experience there totals 1 year 5 months. I worked there part-time when I wasn’t full time, so my total experience is ridiculously close to 2 years full time. Still, they start me at the same level as someone they hired who’d never worked there because of their employment equity program. The job description was even written around the things that I have taken on since I started working there that were not formerly part of the job. Because of this, I take home less money now (with pension and other deductions) than I did as a casual.
I have to thank my direct manager and the director of my department for fighting for me to get the salary I deserve, but it was no use. Employment equity is great if it works for you, but for so many of us, it works against us. Here’s to better luck next time, I guess. At least I’m working…gotta think of it that way.
—The Working Poor
This article appears in Oct 8-14, 2009.
I’ve never heard of the employment equity program, but it sounds like something that makes a company seem like it doesn’t need to be unionized – when in fact it does not have to treat it’s long term employees fairly.
At least you’re hired permanent full-time. If it’s like my job, you should get raises every year to eventually pay you more than what you were ever paid.
in today’s world, being employed is great, but if not, then you are basically fucked. no money, no home, food, etc., just thank your lucky stars you have a job bud.
At least you have a job… period!
at least you have a job period?!?!??!
WTF???
cry me a fuckin river here, I hate these lazy assholes around here who think it’s so impossible to get a job, it seems like people actually believe there are no jobs here, just today there are ten pages of want ads in the herald, tonnes at the job banks and 127 jobs listed in the coast alone!!
get off your asses and stop expecting the free ride. I’ve had my shitty jobs but there over and done with now, I didn’t just go and give up because my parents couldn’t send me to college, where there’s a will there’s a way and if everyone here keeps the attitude alive that you’re lucky to just be employed the employers are going to continue to take advantage of you.
MAYBE THE EMPLOYER IS ACTUALLY LUCKY TO HAVE YOU THERE TO HELP THEIR BUSINESS MAKE MONEY.
it’s a two way street and it’s up to you which way you want to go.
Dear “first and last,” first, do I know you?
Second, do you know me, or my situation? Probably not.
Lastly, I don’t feel like I need to or should bother explaining myself. I suppose you do make a fair comment though because there really isn’t much of an excuse for laziness. Seriously looking for work for months but not being able to find anyhing in your field and having to resort back to shitty minimum wage jobs just to get by while other people who haven’t worked nearly as hard with far less education have better jobs, though, really fucking sucks. I’m crying my river now…
For the record, it’s not hard to find a job in the HRM. It’s hard to find a job that pays fairly in the HRM. I’ve been offered positions in HRM that equate to less than what I earned fresh out of university a forever-ago. I’d rather sling beer than sell out my talents.
Kay is absolutely right on this point and it is worth paying attention to. This is an issue dear to my heart and one that is NOT given proper attention in high school or university.
Those of you who read my rants a while back regarding people who undersell their skills in the design business should especially pay attention to this issue. KNOW YOUR WORTH. There is NOTHING more important in your career than being paid a fair rate for the work you do.
I saw an ad a few months ago for an “intermediate” level professional position at a FEDERALLY-FUNDED organization, requiring a four-year degreee PLUS extra training in a sub-specialty—so 6 to 8 years of school PLUS 3-5 YEARS OF PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE—in exchange for a generous salary of (choke) ****$25,000****—which would NOT increase incrementally each year because it was a so-called CONTRACT job to be perpetually renewed at the same 1980s salary . . . forever.
[Take note that a person could become a Lawer or Engineer or Architect in less time.]
This job was NOT at a struggling small business—this was an institution with NATIONAL significance and they hoped to get a skilled person for entry-level wages???
I just laughed—THEIR loss, not mine! I am too busy doing PAID work to volunteer—for the Federal Government no less!!!!
I do believe that many of the salaries in this region tend to be low BECAUSE of that “being thankful to have a job” trap—AND many people do not know how to negotiate for higher pay. Some people still believe that they are a “good person” if they agree to work for less pay than their colleagues.
Everyone should know the true market value of their skills.
This recession won’t last forever so be ready.
It sounds like you’re working for the government, which means you are a member of the NSGEU. I would approach your union representative and discuss the situation with them, if you have a case the union will take up the fight on your behalf. You pay the dues so you might as well take advantage of the benefits of being a unionized worker.
Hear hear RubyJane!!
I wonder if the regional demographic of the managerial work force has anything to do with it (aged). I have an American education and I’m generally considered ‘aggressive’ in negotiating for wage. There is no place this “life skill” seems to go more unappreciated than in the HRM. Is it because of the “old way” of doing things not vacating with the times in the region? Like, fall-off-your-chair-grateful for a $1/hr raise (that is legislated) or the privilege of paying into a benefits package… ooo, ahhh! Mom used to show up a half hour early, take lunch at her desk and be sure to be the last to leave the office and the first to arrive the next day oh so grateful to her generous employer who has such control of your life. Times are changing. As soon as the greater workforce is of the mind, “you get what you pay for” we’ll see increased wages because I argue my mom makes me look bad when on a daily basis I simply show up on ready and on time or when I take my half hour lunch in peace.
what are you saying, Fat? That jobs are hard to find in the HRM and when you got one it pays fairly? Your fucked in the head. Why is every post you make designed to stop meanful dialogue? You’re not even entertaining anymore. Just very *yawn* very *yawn again* predictable.
Look in a mirror… buddy, vanity is a sin. piss off now
Nobody’s forcing anyone to work a job for a crap wage. Employers tend to lowball because that’s what they do. On the other side of the coin there’s Google-like companies that treat you well but expect you to not have a life.
If you like the job but not the wage I suggest A) Go though the interview process anyway and if you get it tell them how much you expect to make. B) Work for a year and then tell them how much it will cost to keep you.
The truth is if you actually are good at your job and the employer knows you are not easily replaced they will generally play ball. On the other hand if there is a line up of people with the same skills behind you then why should they pay you some high salary?
my fucked in the head, kay?
our NS education system cannot be that bad compared to your American system now 😀
There have been some very interesting studies comparing the work attitudes (rights and responsibilities) of the “Big 3” demographics in the workplace right now: Baby-boomers, Generation x, and Generation Y.
Setting aside the issue of whether or not these sweeping generalizations are valid for all people in certain age groups, it is worth noting that some very clear patterns are in play.
Boomers are very much the “go-in-early-and-stay-late” generation—so much so, that as today’s managers they have a real problem with the concept of overtime pay for overtime work, and work-life balance for their employees, especially employees with children. Their generation had many things easy—lots of opportunities and a fast track to high-paying, prestigious positions. BUT: the women joined the workforce in the 60s and 70s had to fight for many of these opportunities, and many of them succeeded but at great personal cost. We are still seeing some of the fallout from that era in the lives of Gen-X and Gen-Y people today.
Generation-X has been (falsely, I believe) branded the “slacker” generation. I don’t believe the slackness was so much by choice as it was A) a rejection of certain baby-boomer attitudes and B) a result of a disintegrating economic situation that has been with us since the oldest Gen-Xers have reached employment age. People in their 50’s now are STILL waiting (after waiting thru the 70s, 80s, and 90s) for the highest-echelon jobs to be vacated by the boomers—many of whom have no intention of retiring any time soon . . . oh yeah, and many of us are really, really, really good at holding grudges and getting all cynical about anything and everything so in many ways we are our own worst enemy when it comes to taking advantage of what opportunities do come along.
Generation Y: my FAVOURITE generation at my workplace, really. Ernest, informed, confident, personable, hilarious . . . and very very aware of their worth and their rights in the workplace. Come in on a weekend? Sure, they’re always happly to help out . . . but NOT if they are already committed to something else in their busy lives. I’m 40 and I totally admire the ease with which they seem to transition between school, work and real life. I feel bad that they have had to deal with this recession just as their careers were getting started, but I have no doubt that they will be doing just fine once everything picks up again.
So yeah, the inter-generational stuff is pretty interesting, and it has a lot to do with how different kinds of people interact in the workplace, a lot of which is magnified when combined with other local and historical realities that we deal with in this part of the country.
Kay, in answer to your question, I do see a huge generational shift happening here on the East Coast. You weren’t here 20 years ago, so you don’t see how much has improved. Obviously, there are still many things that need attention, but I have total faith in the abilities and attitudes I see taking shape now. There are still a lot of “old school” types making a lot of the key decsions, but the younger generation is much more savvy about just about everything.
Kay, quit your whining. Your only life skill is being a bukkake model.
I took this hit as well… started on a term with potential for full time.
Worked 3 months and then started with a lower salary because now you have to pay for “benefits”, etc…
if you hang in there and show em what you’re worth, at the year point you can demonstrate what you’ve done in your position and your willingness to stay if they are willing to pay accordingly. If you can’t present a good case after a year, perhaps they started you where you should have been in the first place.
in your case, where you’ve been there so long, I’d cut it to 6 months and say, “look, I can do everything I was doing before quite easily! Pay me more”.
Government ‘workers’ are over paid, over benefited and too numerous……until the next provincial budget when a hiring freeze will kick in and pen pushers, policy analysts and other wasters of space will no longer be hired nor needed. And we could do with a lot less mouth puppet grads from MSVU.
It must be hell having a job where me and others have to pay for your pension plan, your LTD, your medical plan, your dental plan, your counselling plan and your 6 month cash payout when you retire at 55…..ain’t life awful.
HR has no control over what you get paid; neither does compensation. As a Federal employee you are subject to the PSEA and the relative Collective Agreement (which gives you an annual raise btw) not to mention that you given that you have been employeed for over 6 months, you receive full health beneifits including dental and over 9 hours a month of sick leave PLUS two to three weeks vacation annually.
Jai is correct; you should speak to your union representative. In my opinion, nothing will come of it as everyone is subject to the same policies. Your casual time does not count toward your equity program. You’ll see the incremental increase soon. Be happy you are an indeterminate employee.
P.S. you just received a salary increase on June 21, 2009 and will receive another increase in a years time…
In response to Jowblow…
Government employees pay their own benefits and pensions. They take HUGE hits in terms of taxes. They pay:
Income Taxes
CPP
EI
Superannuation
Union Dues
Charitable Donations (taken off of each pay cheque)
Death Benefits
Disability Insurance
etc.
Don’t make the argument that “I’m so tired of paying your (insert ridiculous claim here)”
You don’t.
On my most recent pay cheque I have a total of 560 dollars in deductions.
Easy Going Gal, how do we conclude the OP is a government worker? Why, because YOU work for gov’t? We can’t fraw such a conclusion just because there’s an employment equity policy put in place by the company. We should also not conclude that government policy is paved in stone when it comes to retaining a work force. Do NOT succumb to the idea that government is “Daddy for Adults” and should not be challenged. You’re all so quick to challenge a church that would presume to tell you how to live and work and feel. Why are you so quick to embrace a government that would do the same?
What compels a paycheque deduction for Charitable Donations (which is also a tax write-off)? Certainly no law and certainly no legal nor enforceable company policy.
There may be company policy which dictates the employee purchase a modicum health benefits but, no doubt, there’s an option for the very minimum of coverage. Realize group benefits are very costly but much less costly than individual plans. Premiums are often grossly subsidized by the employer qualifying it as an “benefit” of employment.
I can deduce that kay because I am in HR in a government department and understand the policies and information the OB has put forth. Because I am in HR for a goverment department, I also know much, much more about the policies in question than you do. So in this instance..keep your ill-informed mouth shut.
Nobody is ‘forced’ to make charitable donations, they are made by the employee. I simply stated that they are one of many items that come off of the pay cheque.
And no, you don’t have to have the TOP health benefits package; it’s up to you to decide which Level you prefer. But I chose the lowest one and I still pay a lot for it.
kay, it’s very obvious that you either work for the private sector and/or you have absolutely no idea how employment with the government works. Speaking as someone who has been is involved in the hiring process for two Fed. Government departments, I’d have to say that my knowledge on the subject trumps yours. I’d stop with the “I know everything” BS now b/c I just called you on it.
By the way, the governments hiring practices is challenged all the time… it even has it’s own Tribunal dedicated to ensuring that employee rights are fulfilled. Your fascination with “Sheep” doesn’t apply here.
NOT so Easy Going Gal, your knowledge of the inner workings of government HR policy is VERY obvious in that you PRESUME the OP is addressing YOUR employer. Perhaps it’s YOUR lack of knowledge of the private sector posing a problem since you PRESUME no other organization besides our government even knows what an employment equity program is let alone adopts policy to adhere to one. Unless you’re the OP… are you?
Maybe you should tell JC here what my “fascination with sheep” might be. Tell us all, smartypantz.
easy going gal, got any extra government jobs that need filling? i’ll work 3 days a week,and start at only 50k yearly.
kay, I assume that the OB (which I am not) is speaking of a government department due to the terminology (s)he uses (casual, department, etc.) but also because of the actual policy (s)he is referring to. Government departments hire using this employment equity policy and therefore I made the assumption. Perhaps I am incorrect but I don’t believe I am. By the way, I have family members who have been employeed in the private and public sector as HR Generalists for over 20 years. I have had several conversations with them regarding the differing policies our employers use so I’m not as ignorant as you wish I was. I realize that it is just your attempt to make me look as ill-informed as you. Sorry you were not successful.
In reference to your “sheep” fascination:
You have an obvious love for using that word. I’ve noted this over the past several months as your insult of choice. Perhaps you should remove the tin-foil hat; not everyone is out to get you. While I agree the government (provincial and federal) is not perfect, perhaps you should take stock of the privileges you currently enjoy and the benefits and services provided to you by said government before you make your paranoia, hate-filled rants. Are you ever happy/satisfied? I’m assuming your going to go into a “don’t be a sheep; question everything” speel so please regard that question as a rhetorical one.
Life sucks. I wish I could get you a job like that but unfortunately, I’m not responsible for making that decision. I understand why many people want to criticize government employees; I used to be one of them. I also realize that many times it is because people wish they had a government paying job. I wish the benefits of the government job extended to everyone; it’s too bad that that is not the case.
Easy going gal – you don’t pay for the full costs of your pension plan and the other benefits. Check your plan details because I strongly believe you will find that me and other taxpayers are paying about 50% of the costs of the pension plan and almost the same percentage of the other benefits. As for the 6 months cash benefit upon retirement, on top of the pension, the taxpayer is on the hook for 100% of the cost.
Check the public accounts for the amount this adds to the liabilities of all three levels of government – in Toronto it is up to $400 million.
Yes, it would be nice if all workers had the same level of benefits but your pay check would not stretch as far as it does. You rely on all those low paid people for your cheap clothes etc.
I am sure if half the pen pushers across Canada suddenly died we would barely notice it except for more room on the road, on transit and in the bars and restaurants. In my dreams.
I find these types of arguments weak because the same can be reversed. For instance; you say that you pay half of my pension well… I pay taxes like everyone else. So let’s say I rarely if ever, go to the hospital.. I am still paying for health care. I’m not mad about that.
I think the general idea is that government employees provide a service to the public and therefore the public is taxed as a result, regardless of whether or not they actually use them. Similar to the health-care example I stated above.
You can be upset about that all you like, it’s your right, what bothers me is the negative attitudes toward ALL government employees. As if I am purposefully taking something away from the general public or trying to cause harm. I beleive a lot of the time the anger towards “the government” is misdirected. A person who works for the Federal Government in a clerical position has no say in the things that the public gets upset about. I see all the time people who work in customer service saying “I’m sorry I don’t make the rules, I just follow them” well guess what, same goes for government employees. A front-end employee with SC can only do such much to help you get EI benefits, beyond that, complain to the politicians.
Easy Going Gal is absolutely correct Kay, I have a worked government job for a few years prior to my present public sector IT job and the terms the OB used directly infer (to me) that they work in a government job…and from the sounds of things…it’s the Workers Compensation Board. I couldn’t believe the ridiculous policies and procedures there, not to mention the asshat bureaucracy that was ripe there. Many good people work there, don’t get me wrong…but there is an undercurrent culture there that just made me sick.
Okay so nowhere did the OP say they work for the government. Way to assume, folks. Especially you bitter ones who assumed they had a good salary and benefits paid by taxpayers.
Thank you, Bawls. Did you have 6 generations of family not work in HR to arrive at that conclusion? LOL
Easy Going Gal, one should expect to find the kay who loves the way we bitch hanging on this blog. The kay who loves the way we love, well, she’d be posting in the wrong section now, wouldn’t she?
Every time I argue for tolerance for the homeless or drug addicted, there’s an argument. If I throw in a one-liner intended to cause a chuckle, someone calls my kid a bastard and once in a while I take the bait. I mean, there’s no stance that doesn’t solicit hateful “sheep like” behavior from the bitches. There’s no help for it except to call it what it is and now, here you are bitching about that too. What’s a bitch to bitch about if that’s not a valid bitch?… bitch?
Back to the OB… thanks again Bawls. I’m just dumbfounded gov’t workers think they don’t actually work for a private corporation with all the same objectives (which sometimes include employment equity policy) as the private sector businesses do. Yeah, most people don’t know it but Revenue Canada is a private corporation. Put that in your pipe when you think I’m paranoid about the role of government in our daily lives.
Food for thought… how many public sector jobs still offer a pension that’s not an RRSP contribution but, you know, get paid to do nothing kind of pension like what ‘retired’ politicians or long-standing gov’t workers get from tax payers. It’s not common yet our government likes to pay pensions. hmmm
Did anyone hear/read anything?….. Nah didn’t think so.
Kay, like Easy Going Girl and Der?, I assumed that the OP is working for the provincial government because of the language they used when describing their employment situation. To me words and phrases such as department, division, director of division, casual, permanent hire, and employment equity all lead me to believe that the OP is talking about a position within the Provincial Government. Perhaps, I am wrong but I doubt it. You really need to stop being such a hateful troll.
It doesn’t matter where she works–it is the principle of the thing.
She has worked there too long to be treated, on any level, as a new employee.
That her workplace re-shaped her job description using her past performance as a model indicates that they know her value. Forcing her to start at ground level in order to save some money is an insult and it is unethical.
I actually agree with Kay’s first comment. Anyone can find a job in HRM, but finding a job that pays fairly is…rough.
Entry level in my field pays about 25-35 grand (absolute bottom and average top) in non government. But, if I relocate to Quebec, Ontario, BC, Alberta, especially and even the states my absolute bottom starting salary would be 40K.
Problem *is* for some fields, the market is saturated and employers can get away with wanting 2-4 years experience for a VERY entry level job with ridiculous expectations and a shitty ass salary. Go to other markets and it’s less saturated.
Also, there are some fields that are hard to find positions in because there are so many of us out there. I don’t think it makes one lazy if they can’t necessarily find a job in their field…I mean, I went to school for 8+ years to do something specific, so I wouldn’t exactly say I’m being lazy for holding out for something in my field that pays decently.
Which is why I’m going where the money is and moving away, which for some people trained in some things is a sad fact of life.
I feel your pain kitty… starting here is around 38K for my position (though you get shit on quite regularly and have extremely high standards along with a STEEP learning curve of the environment). I’ve taken my lumps and worked up a bit… but nowheres near the job postings I’ve seen in Ontario and out west at 98K a year.
before I get the whole “Well then move” crowd going, I have been considering though there’s a lot going on right now to consider… none of which concern any of you so I’m not going to speil on it…
just noting how underpaid people can be around here.
Unfortunately, not everyone can just up and move to where the jobs (or better paying jobs) are for various reasons.
I’m going while I still can: I’m young and single and have no real obligations to this area besides a few family ties, however said ties aren’t enough to break an opportunity for relocation for work. Some people don’t have this luxury.
I’m not sure where this fits into everything but, I know many people who are moving TO Halifax for work. Perhaps it’s just the fields these people are in that allow them to find employment here. I moved here 6 months ago for work however, that might not be saying much as anything is better than Cape Breton when you are looking for employment opportunities *thumbs down* But, speaking as a person whose entire immediate family relocated to Fort McMoney for work, I sympathize with you Pritty Kitty. Good luck on the job hunt; I hope a great opportunity will bring you back to Halifax!