4 of us went out to a club downtown on Saturday night.
We arrived at 1 am and paid full cover. We went out for a smoke at 140am and they refused to let us back in. We also couldn’t leave because we had our jackets in the coat check. We had bracelets, and ticket stub for the jackets. We weren’t drunk at all very quiet and polite.
I just don’t understand how or why they are allowed to do this? I know they have a ‘sketchy’ past, but how can we stop this bullshit? It’s a bar, and not even a good one, i can’t believe people go to this bar more than once.
This article appears in May 1-7, 2008.
I love this. Great Bitch. However, the reason this shit happens is because this bar scene in this city has determined that selling drinks for ridiculously low prices isnt the way to make money. They make money in the clubs by charging $5 cover. While this shit goes on in other clubs, they care about the patrons there. Here, the doormen are gorrillas (with the mentality of them too in many cases). Seeing an opportunity with a by-law that on the surface appeared to screw the bars, actually can generate a few more bucks in cover when you step out. I know it is rude, but ROAR (right of admission reserved) they dont have to let you in. Now, if the smoking bylaw was amended that they could build a little fenced in smoking area with a heater, this would never happen. Silly Nova Scotian Law makers ruled that would be a hazard and it would be an eyesore seeing little wooden fenced in areas on the sidewalks downtown, thusly giving the kibosh to the obvious solution to the problem. This was something that couldnt have be forseen many years ago when these clubs opened. The reason that people continue to go is this….. as long as drinks are cheap, ($2.50 for a drink in a nightclub of a city this size at the biggest night and most modern nightclubs is a HUGE steal), people could careless about the entertainment in this city. The masses flock to the cheap drinks. While the DJ’s at this club might feel great they work the big clubs, they dont have to be any good. Cheap drinks forever rules this city.
I would take your complaint to the Better Business Bureau, this could technically be argued to be Fraud…they charged you for access to their establishment, you paid…you were not violating any of the rules, yet they barred you access for which you have legally paid for, not to mention the fact that your property was still inside the establishment and you had proof of both your payment for access and tickets for your property (coats). If at the very least this could be a hassle that costs them money, if even only a bit.
The Homie.. What are you going on about, I found none of what you posted made sense nor was it related to the topic, nor do i believe you should sit there and justify the actions of these morons! Personally i have had nothing but horrible experiences in clubs here in Halifax recently. I have no idea what clubs aside from palace and dome that offer $1 drinks.. which they’re not allowed to do anymore as far as i remember, but most places have drinks for $5 and more.. Cover now is $7 most places. It’s false advertisement about the clubs everywhere you go, specially one in particular that was advertised here in the coast about having beds and what not. We actually went to check it out, paid $7 cover and it was empty, no beds, and construction was still going on. On top of all of that, they refused to refund us the cover even though we were only in there for 5 minutes. The better business bureau on the other hand are a useless bunch of children. In fact, any HRM position that’s supposed to be helping the public is (Tenancy board, HRM Services, planning and municipal works), i deal with a few on a daily basis, I end up finding most of the information i need myself without their help. There’s only 1 way for these morons to learn, is for people to stop going to these clubs!. There should not be a cover charge, I buy you’re fucking martini’s for $10, it has a shot of liqueur in it.. since when a fuckin shot is $10!!!.. I like the taste of martinis, and i don’t drink them because of status, but we have a bunch of morons in halifax that made it that way! If you’ve never been to other places in Canada, I can assure you that it’s cheaper to go out in DOWNTOWN TORONTO than it is in Halifax. At least in Toronto, a lot of places don’t have cover and their drinks are pretty reasonable.
Coyotex…if you read what i put, you will see that actually the bar is in the right in a technical sense. The technicality is for you to smoke, you left the establishment. If it went to court, that is what they argue. It happened elsewhere, and would end up being the case here. I cite Kitchener as an example of this. At first they were not allowed to build smoking areas. So one has to leave the club to smoke, after a fight ensued, the bar didnt allow anyone back in, EVEN IF YOU WERE NOT IN THE FIGHT. I forget exactly what happened to the woman (some medical shit in her purse or whatever, she couldnt get to it) but she took the club to court. The club won as it sited the law as being the problem in this case. If the law would allow these clubs to build inclosed (but outside) fenced in areas that connect to a door SEPERATE to the entrance, smokers wouldnt have to leave the premises to smoke. I told you the history of the law in my previous post, how the bar owners come to the conclusion they dont have let you back in. I also included how the law is flawed in this province (until recently it was a municipality issue in most provinces). I also showed you why the bar owners mentality about how they treat customers.
The law doesn’t dictate to steal from the patrons.What happened here was pure theft. There was no fight, nor was there a serious condition. These people were given tickets, they were given stamps based on the fact that if they needed to step outside for a minute, they could get back in, like every bar does and advertises. When they advertise they do that, then they take your money, you leave for a few minutes and they refuse to let you back in, even though they told you YOU COULD LEAVE AND COME BACK BECAUSE NOW YOU PAID YOUR COVER AND GOT A STAMP, that’s called theft my friend.
I hate to say it again, But I agree with Homie, yes they paid and their stuff was inside BUT maybe the fire codes and regulations made the numbers go aganist them and thats why they weren’t permitted back in, they didn’t NEED to go out for a smoke!!
Jenn, if that’s the case, how can they justify crossing that limit to begin with? They clearly knew they were beyond fire code capacity. They shouldn’t have allowed many that many people to be in there to start with! Why did it come down to them 3 or 4!!!!
They could have had a lot of people come in during the 40 minutes the OP was inside they said they got there at 1 and went outside at 140 and I’M a smoker and have been refused to be let back in I’m not saying it’s right but we can’t always assume it’s because they were trying to rip the patrons off!!
Any reason why they wouldn’t let you back in Jenn?
while i agree seems wrong and like theft, if you read the regulations at the entry of the bar….. they technically warn you that they are not responsible for your shit when you leave the property. That is the risk you take. It happens, but you can actually read that for yourself. It sounds like a silly technicality, but if you tried to understand what i put down about how this could have been avoided by amending the law as it exists now, you would get what i was saying. I know it aint right, but it is within a bar’s discretion to not allow you back in when you leave the property, even for a smoke.
The Homie, I’m sorry i just fail to see how this “they technically warn you that they are not responsible for your shit when you leave the property” has anything to do with them being refused entry after paying cover and not given a good reason why, yet they would have been allowed in had they paid! If they paid the cover again, they would have been allowed in, so that negates the whole fire code argument. The bar isn’t responsible for your personal belongings is a completely different topic than the one at hand, so there’s no argument there!
Coyotex…they told me they were filled to capacity and I was outside for probably like 10-15 minutes…my fault…and they went and got my coat outta coat check for me!!
yet they would have been allowed in had they paid! If they paid the cover again, they would have been allowed in,WHERE DID YOU SEE the OP said anything like this??
once you pay cover, that money covers your one entrance through the door. At that point, you leaving, even for a smoke, is still leaving the property. I know it sounds shitty and almost scandolus on the part of the bar, but in a legal sense, you did leave the premises. It might seem that it goes without saying that you should be allowed back in to continue your night, but that isnt the case legally. To smoke you must LEAVE the premises, at that point, it becomes the discretion of the bar to allow you back in. Common sense, and courtesy (and good customer relations) to let you back in, but to make a point, they dont have to. They can be making a point to you to deter your kind (the OP) in this case, they may be making a point to whoever made this stupid bylaw, that they want to make enclosed smoking areas. If enough people complain about this, than lawmakers would have to look at changing this. That is what happened in a city near me.
Coyotex, in the history of LTWWB, Homie has never been wrong. His arguments will get longer and more prone to reference things he already made “points” about until you get bored and leave, which looks like what is about to happen, at which point, he will continue making more “points” even though everyone has left, and when he is finally finished, he will reference the “points” he made in this argument in other posts, forever and ever amen.
qwerty,i hate to tell you this, but it says this on the entrance OF EVERYNIGHT CLUB. If you choose to ignore this, that is your choice. Hardly my opinon.
Homie, I hate to tell you this, but I’m not commenting on what you’re saying. I’m commenting on your supremely annoying patterns.
Call it annoying, but like i pointed out, without going into depth, people are going to think one thing. If people do not point this shit out, then we go on as a society not understand what happened. Now, if the OP takes into account what i have said, then he/she would understand what happened, and direct her complaints to the correct people. I am for change of this bylaw and allow bars to build a seperate area to smoke. It appears others have given up the trying to fight and just stay on point. This includes Floyd, lori and a few others. When you are mature enough to keep this as conversation and you not get upset how others post, i will get back to you.
No person or establishment can offer a stamp or braclet or ticket for the purposes and intent of allowing patrons to step outside for a smoke and then refuse to allow the patron re-entrance after doing just that. That is fraud any way you look at it. Oh and posting a sign indicating your “rules” does NOT read NOT excuse or remove legal responsibility or liability.
unfortunately chris…. the law doesnt agree with you. Once you step off the premises, you are considred out of the building. It may seem fraudulent, but its too bad for you that the law is on the side of the bar. To me and you it is a scam the bar runs, but tell a cop, tell the better business folks, explain that you had to step out of the premises, to smoke and they didnt allow you back in. I bet you do not win this. Can you tell me the law that says they have to allow someone that has left the premises back in? Its private property pal. Your bit about the sign doesnt apply. They can take your cover, have you walk in and then throw you out for absolutley no reason. Its private property. Bad business, but still private proprty.
Homie’s actually right on this one. You pay cover to go in, but once you leave the establishment – be it for 60 seconds or 60 minutes – you have no “right” to re-enter. You’ve left the bar. For many years I worked at one of the busiest establishments in the city where we constantly had a line-up and we had to be very careful how many patrons we had in the place at one time – the fire marshall was always on our case. When you pay your cover charge, it’s to get through the doors one time, it doesn’t mean you can come and go as you please. It may not seem “fair”, but that’s the way it is. It’s not “fraud” what-so-ever.
P.S. Most of our bouncers weren’t jerks – if you told them you were going outside for 5 minutes to have a smoke/get some fresh air, they were pretty reasonable. It doesn’t hurt to check with the doormen before you leave, just to make sure you’ll be able to get back in.
Wow, that’s awesome mentality”Homie’s actually right on this one. You pay cover to go in, but once you leave the establishment – be it for 60 seconds or 60 minutes – you have no “right” to re-enter. You’ve left the bar. For many years I worked at one of the busiest establishments in the city where we constantly had a line-up and we had to be very careful how many patrons we had in the place at one time – the fire marshall was always on our case. When you pay your cover charge, it’s to get through the doors one time, it doesn’t mean you can come and go as you please. It may not seem “fair”, but that’s the way it is. It’s not “fraud” what-so-ever.”So you guys don’t see anything wrong with bars letting you in, and you forgot something in your car, or what have you, and them refusing to let you back in because they would prefer that you paid another $7 again. If you pay they’ll let you in to spend more money in their establishment. Man it’s soooo easy to take advantage of haligonians it’s not even funny. That’s why everyone takes advantage of Canadians! specially US!!! Next thing you know, due to that mentality, it will be $20, 40, or even $50 to get into a club! we’ll see what you say then, remember the time you used to pay $2 to watch a movie.. i didn’t even mind paying $5 to watch a movie. Now it’s close to $50 to go to a movie!
I agree Coyotex, it’s fucking bullshit. People let themselves be trampled on, and as long as we allow it, it will continue.
Why do they bother to give you a bracelet then … and when they do feel so inclined to let you back in they look to make sure you have a bracelet so you don’t have to pay again. I’d have to say, Homie, your wrong about that “you pay to get in once but once you leave you pay again”. If you buy a ticket for something at the Metro Centre and go for a smoke they don’t charge you again to get in because they’re filling the place on ticket sales as they do with bracelets to get into a bar. That’s how they keep track of the amount of people in the bar.
As I mentioned, Coyotex, most of the doormen at the establishment where I worked weren’t unreasonable. If you said to them “Look, I forgot my wallet in the car and I have to run back and get it”, they would absolutely let you back in. However, we had all kinds of people who left our bar, went to another one for an hour, then wanted to come back. They always tried to pull the “But I’ve only been gone 5 minutes” argument. With the number of people we had coming and going each night, it was impossible for them to keep track of who had gone out for just a minute or two.And you know what? We’d all love to pay $2 to see a movie, but that’s just not the way the world works. It’s called inflation. Sure, the cost of living (i.e. seeing a movie) goes up, but so do salaries, minimum wage, etc. We’re all making a lot more money now when we were in the days when movies cost $2. To grumble about having to pay more now than you did 15 years (or more) ago is ridiculous.
I’m not a smoker, but I do think the Metro Centre has a designated smoking area outside. If you go to a show at the MC, you can’t leave and come back, unless you’re going to that designated (and supervised, if I’m not mistaken?) smoking area.
Coyotex, no one here is arguing that what the bar did was right, or a good thing to do, or that we agree with their tactics. All they’re saying is that the bar can do whatever they want based on rules and laws. Sure it sucks, but they can do it. We can bitch, but they can still do it. So go and don’t expect to be let back in if you leave, or don’t go at all.
Coyotex, i said i agree with you that it sucks. However it is you that is misinterpreting reality with the uthopian thought that what we THINK should be the case, isnt the case. The fact that you refuse to accept the legal interpretation of how they can get away with it, is your problem. Like i said, the bar can do it, because the government didnt allow them to build a fenced in enclosure at a seperate entrance like they wanted to do. That way, on a newly created tecnhicality, you wouldnt be leaving the property.Qwerty, you can stand up all you like, but the bars arent the people to direct your anger to. Like Jennie said, there are many that take advantage of the “wrist band” thing. If they change doormen at the front, there is no way of him knowing who went out for a smoke and who went up the street for half hour. I agree that shit like this sucks, but the problem was the government refusing to allow them to build.
Lots of people would come to our bar early, before the crowds, to get a stamp (we didn’t use bracelets). Then they’d come back 2 or 3 hours later when there was a line of 50-100 people, and expect to waltz right in.
bracelets had 2 uses at first. They were used at clubs in the states that allowed 19-21 year olds in clubs with 21 and up. Anyone caught with an alcoholic beverage without a bracelet was tossed. The other use was that the bracelets are numbered and colored, should a fire marshal require a headcount, it is easier for the bar to show exactly who was in the club and who wasnt in the club should a major situation arise. An example that came to mind was in toronto at Palazzo, a shooting erupted in the club (so much for metal detectors) but when the rush of people came outside, people were volunteering to be witnesses. Since they didnt have the bracelets on, the police knew they were not eyewitnesses. Silly gang shit.
Wow Coyotex, good thing you have a guy like Homie to interpret reality for you!What a friend we have in Homie…
I didn’t ask about the history of bracelet’s …
Don’t make this into something it’s not Homie. It isn’t about smokers or the new smoking by-laws, it’s about jerk bouncers, bad business policy and naive patrons. It’s not only smokers who are affected by this situation, they may make up the majority of people who leave a bar temporarily, but it is not really a smoking issue and the by-laws are not to blame. The problem is letting people who leave back in, not even to collect their belongings. Bars could make an effort to accomodate these people, but they don’t bother because there is another pleeb around to take their spot on the dance floor. Bars don’t have to exercise their right to refuse entry for no good reason, but they do. That is the only thing at issue here. IMHO.
the history, is still the same reasons they are being given out for
miles, i am agreeing with you that they are being dicks. I know it is bad busines. But it is the truth. It is how they can do this and justify it in a legal manner. I know it is a horrible practice, and a reason that i dont even bother trying to go out for a smoke. I have seen this happen first hand at the club on argyle accross from the grand parade….. (but no names) and i was stunned as the chick was who i wanted to pick up. The goons were being complete fools about it too. Picking and selecting people to go past the line and shit. I knew it was wrong. However, i spent my whole life working at nightclubs. You hear them tell these people that are threatening legal action to look at the sign. It is a shitty thing to do, but its private property. They get away with it. Some how they try to justify it. I know it is wrong to me and you, but in a legal sense….. not much we can do. And yes, it is the err with the bylaw that is at fault. The Dome wanted to build a 8 foot high wood fence outside the doors by the glass windows. That way people could go in and out, but no patrons from the outside could scale the fence and not get caught. The province said they couldnt build those on the side walks like they build the patios.
Homie, nobody is disagreeing whether they are within their legal right. The issue is something else. Let it go already!
ok miles, what does the club do about keeping track of numbers….. if they have multiple entrances? What does the club do if they change the doorman out front and 30 people are smoking…. how are they to know if that person with the bracelet jsut went out, or like one of the people that jennie described that fuck off for a couple of hours?dont for a second dont think i dont agree with you they are being dicks, but this could be solved in an easy simple manner so that the roid monkeys do not have this power. Simple problem, simple solution.
my message to qwerty…………..
Is that morse code?
it means that you just dont get it, standing up to the bouncers is pointless. They will win EVERYTIME. People need to get something done about this, to take this silly power that prevents smokers from getting cheesed. The bylaw amendment is the easiest way. Getting kocked out or banned from a club when you plead or argue isnt the way.
I disagree Homie. Not all bouncers are dumb, unreasonable jerks. If you simply say to them “Look, is it cool if we leave to go have a smoke and come right back”, chances are there isn’t going to be an issue.
. . . _ _ _ . . . Please Help! I’m sick of this thread!
you know what im saying…. in know there is many decent bouncers, but the downtown core doesnt really have a majority of them. I find it disgusting when they high five and shit after a dust up.and they pitch someone head first out the doors. Yes, there is good doormen tho.
you know what im saying…. in know there is many decent bouncers, but the downtown core doesnt really have a majority of them. I find it disgusting when they high five and shit after a dust up.and they pitch someone head first out the doors. Yes, there is good doormen tho.
Does anyone know where we can get another dead horse for Homie here? There’s not much meat left on this one…
It only took me 15 minutes to place a few phone calls to determine that the province is clean out of dead horses….apparently there has been an unusual run on them the last little while.
Tomorrow’s news:”The sudden increase of the import of dead horses into Nova Scotia has left many experts scratching their heads.”
What with world food and gas prices on the rise, the impact is bound to be felt in the dead horse sector too. I think I might start investing in the sleeping dog sector. Perhaps the one’s we should be letting lie would make reasonable flogging surrogates….but I would never advocate cruelty to animals.
Excellent points Miles, all of them, but I fear we have done the unthinkable and strayed off topic. Let us return now to the point the OP was making about the history of the original 2 uses of bracelets.*grumbling* Now where the hell did I leave that sleeping dog?? There you are!
Jennie, Yes. Next time you get a stamp, ask why you’re getting a stamp. I don’t see why anyone would stamp your hand for any other reason! I certainly don’t like ink so i tell them i’ll get it stamped if i want to leave! If I don’t leave the bar, I clearly don’t need a stamp. Unless of course they changed that and now they’re resorting to saying no you have to get a stamp but that does nothing and we’ll still charge you if you try to get back in, which is horrible and i completely disagree with that mentality. The last time i was out at a club was about a month ago or so i believe, at most 2 months ago. It’s not ensuring that you paid for cover and not trying to get in without paying because there’s always always always a bouncer at the door watching who pays and who doesn’t. So that negates that ideology. When it comes down to it, I think a lot of us here agree that Clubs in halifax are becoming terrible. Too much theft and disrespect going on and I personally don’t see the whole concept of “let me pay you some money to be allowed to enter your establishment to buy more products that you sell”. It’s kind of like paying to enter halifax shopping center or Micmac mall. Same concept eventually. Plenty of nicer pubs and places that offer almost the same as some of the clubs do here and they don’t have cover!
I bet you werent drunk… hahahaha tell me another one…
Miles Wrote: “Don’t make this into something it’s not Homie. It isn’t about smokers or the new smoking by-laws, it’s about jerk bouncers, bad business policy and naive patrons. It’s not only smokers who are affected by this situation, they may make up the majority of people who leave a bar temporarily, but it is not really a smoking issue and the by-laws are not to blame. The problem is letting people who leave back in, not even to collect their belongings. Bars could make an effort to accomodate these people, but they don’t bother because there is another pleeb around to take their spot on the dance floor. Bars don’t have to exercise their right to refuse entry for no good reason, but they do. That is the only thing at issue here. IMHO.”Thanks for clarifying, There’s no by-law that allows bars to say: “Hey, you paid cover, we’re going to give you this bracelet, stamp, whatever, so that in-case you stepped out temporarily, we’ll let you back in” This is exactly what they tell you when you pay your cover. When their actions are the opposite of what they say, that’s when we have a problem. And no it’s not only the smokers who have a problem with that. It happened to people i know. It happened to me at P*****CO, which i refuse to go to and don’t recommend it to anyone what so ever due to the terrible staff there who think they work for GOD or something!!!
I just want to clarify, Coyotex – when you’ve paid cover charge at a bar, you’re been told you will be able to come and go as you please?
Sorry coyotex, there is no bylaw saying that they can give this to you and what not, but there is a list of rules that tell you that they reserve the right of entry. Your interpretation of why you got the stamp or bracelet really doesnt matter. Curious, do you even realize that you have actually left the premises when you smoke? If you have, then you should see the rules. It is a courtesy for them to let you back in. It isnt law. Can you show me anywhere it says that your bracelet means you are assured you get back in
Stupid sleeping dog!!!
Dear Homie:STFUGod, you’re irritating.
I would say 95% of the time patrons leave the bar to have a smoke, then go back in without a problem. It’s not like this is happening all the time. (I don’t smoke, but I have friends who do and they’ve never had an issue coming back in after they’ve gone out for a smoke) The other 5% of the time it’s either a) someone who’s too drunk to go back in, b) someone who’s being a jerk to the doormen, or c) a moron bouncer on a power trip. But it’s not like this is a huge problem downtown.
Dear Yourmom….so?