To the men I always seem to meet,
Why are you talking to me? Why did you touch my arm? What about my appearance, or gesturing, or greater body language was at all compelling? I assure you, I do not want any attention from you. Leave me alone. The time I was on the phone, the time I was bundled completely in a snowstorm, the times again and again when I have my headphones on and my eyes down as we pass in the street. I would never approach you “just to be friendly,” so why are you so entitled and self-important that you think you are doing anything more than annoying me? —can’t hear you, don’t want to see you
This article appears in Feb 5-11, 2015.
Dear, maybe you’re a lesbian…?
Or a man-hater…
There’s a Truthism that goes “mean people suck”. Kind people never do.
Which one are you OB?
“WHY?”
To the men I always seem to meet, Why (sic – no capitals after commas) are you talking to me? Why did you touch my arm?” can’t hear you
An excellent question. It is the demand for reasons, the opening move of any worthwhile philosophical dialogue. But why are you asking the men these questions Why?
A pleasure as always,
Cheerio!
I agree with you, OB. I hate it when random people try to talk to me or god forbid, touch me. I guess I’m not much of a people person. I’m introverted and I really don’t care to make small talk with strangers. I try to be nice to a point but sometimes even that encourages them..
Man hater? Sorry, you’re saying that complete strangers are entitled to touch someone else’s body?
I hear ya, solidarity sister. I no longer give any fucks if they can’t read my body language, I will straight up tell them to not touch me.
It’s notions like “man-hater” that are part of the problem; for myself and I’m sure a lot of others (not just women either), if you have been sexually assaulted having someone you don’t know invade your space and not respect and consent you might have thought you had to someone touching you puts you in an unsafe space, reminding you that your body has been violated and taken from you.
Like, fuck. Don’t fucking assume.
It’s called Human Contact. People do this.
If you go anywhere in the world, and meet people of any nation, race, religion, language, or culture, people will have some socially appropriate form of this.
I’m an introvert too (pretty big on the whole “personal space” thing) but I’m not autistic, and even I recognize that a certain amount of casual interaction with other human beings involves the occasional light touch on the arm, or something like that, or possibly even a hug. (Friends, neighbors, colleagues, acquaintances, relatives–people everywhere show normal kindness and affection in this way.)
OB makes it sound like total strangers just walk up to her and paw all over her all the time.
Sheesh. When did some people get the idea that normal interaction is some kind of creepy sexual invitation? I’m pretty sure that most random people aren’t just awkwardly trying to have sex with her.
OB can be stand-offish if that is her comfort zone, but she should stop acting all righteously indignant like some untouchable princess who is offended by having to jostle with all the commoners who dare to touch her inviolable precious self.
I agree that touching should never happen, unless otherwise consented but I feel bitches like this is what shys people away from human contact and resort exclusively to online dating… and personally, I would rather someone talk to me in person than conforming to online dating for any sort of attention
Here’s the rule people: When you’re out in public, keep your eyes down, arms firmly at your side. Do NOT under any circumstances engage in small talk with ANYONE regardless of their gender. Do NOT under any circumstances smile. Some people may possibly have been sexually assaulted and view this as a trigger and some people may simply be introverted to the point of absurdity and view this type of interaction as extremely offensive. The singularity can’t be more than a few decades away, lets all behave like robots now so we are well prepared.
I suppose the OB can become a hermit if they hate men so much. And I suppose women never come up to you to talk and touch you either. Women are more likely to talk and touch while talking.
Women have the odd need to want to touch you the moment they learn you’re gay. “Ooh! I can fix that!”
https://newbeautifulera.files.wordpress.co…
Anyone with half a brain can tell that this bitch is about people the OB doesn’t know and with whom the OB hasn’t engaged. I wish I could count the number of times I’ve been on the phone or reading or waiting for a bus and had someone (oddly never a person who isn’t a cis man) start talking to me, or touch my hair, or “compliment” my appearance. If you’re the kind of person who would call a stranger “sexy” to their face, or invite yourself into their personal space, or feel entitled to touch their body, then you are a harasser and an abuser and actual human scum.
Holy fuck, a person doesn’t want to be touched by a complete stranger and that makes them a ‘man hater’? Guess this makes this dude a man hater as well. “Smile” all you want, but paws off, motherfuckers.
a person is not open for mating every moment of every day and not open to breeding with every person of the opposite sex.
this doesn’t mean she hates men or is a lesbian.
this interference does happen to girls and women who are trying to go about their daily business.
it is creepy and NOT friendly. the guys who are doing it claim they are being friendly and get very pissed off when rebuffed. that’s what proves it isn’t friendly. how pissed they get.
perhaps they should try going up to some burly construction worker and touch him on the shoulder while he is drinking his coffee and say ‘hey, mind if I sit here?’ what???? don’t think that would go over so well? then why should it be ok to do that to a young woman you don’t know?
guys who are bad guys use this to test the waters with women, it lets them see how willing she is to give up her space, freedom, choice to see if she can be controlled, overcome.
a hand on your arm is one clench away from restraint.
this is not about some old dear in the grocery store patting op’s hand when she helped her with her groceries. not at all.
op was specific about who she is complaining about.
*eosyn & miss andrist are members of the local Ladies Lynch MoBBEry…
eosyn: you have NOT been sexually assaulted by having someone you don’t know invade your space, let alone your body being violated and taken from you…
miss andrist: should someone you don’t know start talking to you, or touch your hair, or “compliment” your appearance does NOT equate to being sexually assaulted…
If you two are so uncomfortable with a simple human gesture, then you should find a cave where you can have all the safety and solitude you require. And take all the other ladies with you. The rest of us will survive well without your collective stupidity.
If they are just being ‘friendly’ why aren’t they giving up their seat to the 60 year old? Or a dad with kids? Nah…they are only ‘friendly’ to the pretty women. And when re-buffed act outraged…it’s a joke! And you’re right about touching a construction worker! My advice, don’t do something do a women that you wouldn’t do to a man (i.e. touch a strangers hair!).
http://www.lovesystems.com/training-progra…
http://www.daygame.com
No wonder that Bromance has become so popular, let alone being gay or Bi. Yeesh.
Why? That’s what I want to know, why?
wait a minute, froggy, are you really saying that any man is ok to come up and touch a woman’s hair when she is sitting on a bus bench? say, lean over her and caress her hair? come from behind her and lift up her hair and say ‘gee you are gorgeous’
you think that’s ok? and that any woman who finds that intrusive is ‘stupid’ and overly sensitive? you claim that it is a simple ‘human’ gesture.
how do you jump from the (imo) very legitimate assertion that it is ‘not sexual assault’ to ‘simple human gesture’?
and in your typical extrapolation ( a polite way of saying you just make up what you THINK other people have said) neither commenter you mentioned said that kind of inappropriate touching WAS sexual assault. eosym said that for a person who has been assaulted, this kind of behaviour can REMIND them of those feelings of trespass. and miss andrist called those people harassers and abusers and scum but did NOT say it was sexual assault.
you know, you would find a lot less people with outrageous viewpoints from yours if you stopped inventing them.
Hear! Hear!
Of course touching people and caressing their hair is inappropriate when you are perfect strangers. No argument there from me. I’d never do that, I don’t think most people would. A friendly touch on the arm, I probably wouldn’t do that either because I am also somewhat introverted and I dislike most people…but I can see it happening without malicious intent. The Bitch doesn’t read that way, GDM
“TO the men I always seem to meet – why are you TALKING to me?” Then she mentions someone touching her arm, not running their fingers through her hair while she waits for the bus, whispering perverted things in her ear.
I don’t see my earlier post so I’m gonna try again….if you would do something to a women (stranger or not) that you wouldn’t do to a man then it’s wrong! Would a man on the bus touch the arm of another man? Probably not, so why is it ok that a man does it to a woman? And why, when women complain are we either lesbians, man haters or just plain bitches! Being born attractive is NOT an invitation to unwanted attention…I get that it’s confusing to some men, as they are bombarded by sexual images of women with ‘come hither’ expressions and pouts but in the real world, that pretty woman that buys her latte from you or takes the bus at the same time as you doesn’t want you to hit on her!
If I was talking to another man I very well might touch his arm. It is not a sexual thing but something people sometimes do when they are in conversation.
but not a total stranger hoist. would you walk up to another man you don’t know and stroke his hair or touch him on the arm? (no matter how lovely it was? ) of course not, but another guy you are ALREADY in conversation with, of course. sure. we all do that.
that’s the point of op’s posting. these are complete strangers who are touching her or trying to start ‘friendly’ conversations when she has headphones on and is avoiding eye contact. these strangers are not touching her to pull her back from traffic, or trying to tell her that her coat is on fire. they are refusing to see her unwillingness to engage with them.
I’m saying that using sexual assault to describe these acts is absurd and an over-exaggeration.
If someone I don’t know enters my personal space, speaks to me and/or touches my hair, them I have been sexually assaulted by MANY, MANY women over the last 34 years.
I have been raped!
Where does OB say anything about stroking hair? I sure would touch a man on the arm – for any number of reasons, possibly. Trying to get his attention to ask for directions, etc. But I get your point as well, GDM, there is unwanted contact happening. Unwanted conversations trying to be initiated. I get it. Though sometimes when people go out in public other people do tend to be around and sometimes they try and talk to you. Personally, i find having headphones in or playing a DS only tends to make strangers want to talk to you more. And yes, it’s annoying. But I don’t go making a mountain out of a mole hill about it.
I think our comments crossed, hoist.
perhaps I mis-read the post, but I don’t think so. I believe she used the word ‘meet’ incorrectly, instead of ‘encounter’. I try not to overestimate the language skills of people nowadays.
she says ‘pass in the street’ ‘bundled up in a snowstorm’ ‘on the phone’ ‘eyes averted’ all those gave me the idea she is referring to strangers.
Yes, I’m aware she’s talking about strangers TALKING to her or touching her arm. Nowhere does it say anything about caressing her hair.
sorry, have to add yet another – hoist, the reference to touching hair was not op’s, it was miss andrist, who was then answered by hing frog, who claimed such a thing should be considered a ‘simple human gesture’
hing, she did NOT claim those acts were sexual assault. she said that for someone who has been assaulted the trespass could be a reminder of those feelings. your responding as if she did say they were sexual assault is the over reaction.
I do know the difference between some jerk resting his hand on my shoulder on the bus and being held down by 5 guys in the back stairwell of the school yard.
Oh I see, I missed that exchange.
naveed commented something very interesting. she/he said ‘I try to be nice about it but sometimes that seems to encourage them’.
that’s a very scary part of this. the guys who do this could simply be socially awkward and have no concept of personal space and abysmal at reading others’ non-verbal cues. but the ones that do this deliberately to push your boundaries will be further encouraged if you smile or be nice.
thing is, we are generally conditioned to be nice, polite, give people the benefit of the doubt. ‘oh he is just one of those super friendly guys’ or ‘ I can’t say anything RUDE – what will people think of me’.
and to all the nice guys reading this, and I know who you are, some guys get off on making women uncomfortable in public. they enjoy those little power exertions. you don’t, so you probably cannot fathom why someone would, but it happens all the time if you are remotely attractive and under 60. it is not some nice guy hoping to chat up a nice looking girl. those nice guys are too nice to approach a girl without stammering.
Hear Hear Molly
My parents brought me up to not put my hands on anything that wasn’t mine so I may possibly fall into that category of “nice guys” who know how to behave in public.
I also appreciate solitude, silence and being left alone. Especially on public transit. So, I can definitely empathize with the OP, even though it is a different dynamic.
And no, I’m not one of those who accuses the feminazis of “Killing chivalry and good manners”
Courtesy is a gift you give yourself and any man who allows some bitter brush cut solanasshole to rob you of that, is not worth the sweat off a chihuahua’s scrote.
Big shout out to whomever created the sockpuppets “eosyn” and “miss andrist”
First rate parodies. Good work.
^^ you peeked at my nice guy list.
courtesy and good manners are being trampled to dust by the selfish, self absorbed little emperors of both sex who believe it only works one way – towards them.
I don’t know if I’m well mannered, or just such a misanthrope that even a negative interaction with other people is so profoundly distasteful as to be avoided at all cost.
>; )
Ya know, in some countries where women have the *ahem* “privilege” of being invisible, they literally are invisible–hidden completely under a cloak on the rare instances they are outside the home, and are absolutely not to be spoken to or touched by men, lest both be “dishonored” by such flagrant sexual contact between strangers.
I am sure this is a tolerable situation for SOME, but I am sure MOST people in the world would probably prefer a more natural interaction between human beings, male and female, when out in the world–that would include making eye contact, exchanging smiles or conversation, and even (*gasp*) occasional affectional gestures and touches.
Being “invisible” is not hard to arrange–lots of people succeed att and/or endure it every day. It is much more difficult, and worthwhile, to make genuine connections with people.
close talkers are weird, it’s like they want a kiss
affectionate?? between strangers? one of whom really, really wants to remain that way?
this is not about interactions between co-workers, friends or survivors on a lifeboat.
op is not sitting on a bar stool and wondering why men approach her with a smile and a martini. op is not leaning up against a lamp post clad in fishnet stockings, a beret and striped sweater lamenting that men keep hitting on her. op is not even sitting on a park bench smiling at the birdies in the sky.
she is complaining because some men are insistent about trying to get her to talk to them when she is on the phone/has headphones on/has her eyes down.
as tarsands angel said, in some cultures women have to be wrapped head to toe to keep from inflaming passing men, and I would say that op is doing her best to emulate those women, she mentions being bundled up during a snowstorm and someone was still pestering her. she is behaving in a virtuous and modest way in public. eyes averted.
for christs sakes, what more should she do? wear a friggin burkha? is that what it takes?
just the fact that she is female, and walking around without a duenna means she can be touched?
for the record, I don’t think shit like that will ever stop (and if we ever have an apocalypse it will be open season on women by these guys) but it doesn’t make it RIGHT.
I believe in manners, civil behaviour, friendly smiles, holding doors, giving up bus seats, random acts of small kindnesses, because I find rudeness physically painful. what op has described, and what I experienced myself for decades and what pains me to know the fruit of my loins has to experience is not friendly or kind. not.at.all.
Same poster as this one? Troll?
http://www.thecoast.ca/LovetheWayWeBitch/archives/2014/12/31/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-female-haligonian
Why would this post be considered a troll?
^^^ because I find it hard to believe that the OB of both of these is attracting as much unwanted attention as they are implying. I have known some very attractive women (even one who worked for several years as a model) and if they were getting approached as often as the OB would lead us to believe then I think they would have mentioned it. It also doesn’t ring true that people approach someone “AGAIN and AGAIN when I have my headphones on and my eyes down as we pass in the street”. Really? It’s either pure fiction or a 1000 times exaggeration.
I thought this post was very similar to another one we saw, and debated…
I believe that the OP has suffered a serious trauma, and for that reason associates many situations that would be ordinary interactions as invasive and inappropriate.
The problem is, it is just as presumptuous to label every casual interaction is an intended aggression–an understandable result of having suffered a trauma, but hardly fair to the truly innocent to expect the whole world to be thinking along that line as well. No one can read another person’s mind.
OB did not claim to be experiencing “caresses” from strangers (obviously ew!); she seemed equally angered by casual touches or just attempts at conversation.
Look, we all have days where we really do need to be left alone (and probably send the signals clearly), but that hardly gives us the right to accuse all stranger interaction of being aggressive or intended to harm.
By the way, there will always be those who are truly socially inept and will try to engage in conversation despite obvious headphone-wearing or clear focus on the book/magazine/newspaper/e-reader in front of one’s face. These people are called “dorks.”
Help me; I am being re-raped.
I won’t pick apart semantics. OB and the two cronies are exaggerating as much as am I when I claim I have been raped when having the same experiences.
Now please stop addressing me as that is rape. Right?!
And please don’t rape Ivan.
Unless he asks…
Not being an attractive young female, I don’t really have any visceral understanding of what OP is experiencing. That said, it would be frustrating to be approached by men constantly when your whole strategy is to avoid just that. OP has the right to be left alone if that’s her choice, calling her a man-hater or lesbian is dumb and beside the point. She’s not a bitch, she just prefers not to be mauled figuratively speaking.
miss andrist and the other broad are probalby a couple of those things that rhyme with yikes.
“I try to be nice to a point but sometimes even that encourages them…”
^^^
I know huh?! One time, back in Halifax, I went to a cousin’s wedding where there were a lot of strangers, even more so than people I knew. This geeky looking chubby dude asked me to dance. He was totally not my type but I was in a good mood, esp after a few cocktails, that night and danced with him to be nice (I was even seeing someone at the time). I’ve danced with many people playfully in my life, so I didn’t think it was a big deal. It wasn’t even a slow dance, just a fast one with only occasionally holding hands. After that, he followed me around for a fucking hour and asked for my number twice. He got all pissy when I told him I was seeing someone. “Why did you dance with me then!” He complained. When I told him just cuz a woman dances with him doesn’t necessarily mean she wants to date him, he stormed off before kicking a random table leg!
Just before Christmas, here in Calgary, I was at a coffee shop standing in line. I wasn’t single at the time. This guy next to me makes one comment about the weather and after I responded in agreement, he asks me out to dinner. Wtf.
“One time, back in band camp….”
Hehehe
Oh, I know – lets all get ice-cream and put on our pyjamas and just cry until the sun comes up.
One time, just recently, I went on two dates with a girl – never slept with her and only kissed her once because she went to kiss me and I didn’t want to be rude. It was like maybe a 5 second smooch. I wasn’t interested and I told her so after two ‘dates’. Then I had to listen to what an asshole I am and her picking apart all these things she suddenly didn’t like about me, calling me all sorts of names. She accused me of not wanting to date her because she wouldn’t have sex with (I never tried to have sex with her even a little bit), called me a pig blah blah blah. What an entitled twat, eh? Like just because I buy you a coffee doesn’t mean I want to be your boyfriend for several months.
http://the-toast.net/2014/11/05/girl-tips-from-guys/
I’m glad to see you all put your psychology minors to good use.
http://hotmeme.net/media/i/d/4/bUO-feminism-males-nice.jpg
I’m glad to see you have been practicing your whining.
Stop touching yourself.
hoist, we all have dating horror stories I am sure. consider yourself intuitive enough to have dodged that psycho after only 2 dates. sometimes they hide the crazies for long enough to get a key.
op is talking about total strangers. what if your crazy lady had just come up to you on the street and decided she wanted to date you. and when you said WTF I don’t even know you, she started that berating.
I know that this does happen to guys (not as often as the reverse) and usually not total stranger, but at the acquaintance stage. this is where you get the emotional blackmail from your spurned ‘date’ claiming she can get you charged with sexual assault, will haunt your workplace, key your car, kill your dog, leave underwear in your coat pocket, yell at you on the street that you suck.
(the above has happened to many men I know or gave birth to or married, so it must be fairly common) so I think men should understand at least the concept that one can be pushed at or pestered and have it cause fear. just take it back a step and see how it happens on the street with women.
when some guy invades your personal space (there are deep, primal reasons why this produces fear (or should) ) touches you when you are shrinking from him and then becomes angry when rebuffed. you have no idea what could happen next. will he be content to mutter ‘dyke’ and walk away or will he circle around and jump you at the next alley.
I don’t understand why so many men know there are off kilter women out there who can build a marriage out of a friendly glance but won’t see that the same thing happens to women from the equivalent men. why keep calling it ‘friendly gestures’? ‘friendly gestures’ happen when there is a spark between two strangers. you can see/feel the magnetism sometimes when two people just meet. the arm touching starts, they cannot help it, hair lifting, side smiles etc etc. but its TWO WAY.
the off kilter guys are trying to force that, but its all on their side. lock n load but the target is trying to get away, not engage. kind of like pepe le pew and that hapless cat.
every few days we get the same fucking bitch…SHUT the fuck up…stop filling the LTWWB forum with the same bullshit lying posts every few days PLEASE
Miss Andrist: here’s why your moniker isn’t funny:
http://time.com/3101429/misandry-misandrist-feminist-womenagainstfeminism/
Gooddog Molly: it’s refreshing to see someone trying to provide a balanced opinion. Even times when I don’t quite agree with something you say I can still appreciate that you are putting some honest thought into your arguments.
In my opinion, the issue here is not that anyone is denying that women are more likely to receive unwanted attention than men. Yes, there are some guys (a minority) who are socially inept and don’t know to wait for some sort of signal of interest from a woman (eye contact, welcoming smile, touching, etc.) before trying to touch her or ask her out or whatever. We all know that. But, to be fair, there are lots of women who are socially inept in other, equally annoying ways. I don’t expect social ineptitude to ever disappear.
The more important issue here is the OB’s implied claim that hordes of strangers are stalking and hitting on women at every opportunity. I don’t doubt that it does happen. Bus stops and elevators seem to be a prime candidate for that sort of thing. But, I find it hard to believe that a woman walking along with her headphones on and her head down is going to be repeatedly pestered by strangers. I also find it hard to believe that it happens so frequently to the same person that pure strangers approach her that she lives in fear of it happening. So, my issue is more with this being presented as an epidemic when it is really a few isolated incidents that the OB experienced. I’m not trying to excuse that bad behaviour when it does happen but this just strikes me as making a mountain out of a molehill.
I just question why this woman’s experience is questioned and poked and prodded at. What horse do you have in this race, Post ‘Em? Like why are you (seemingly) angry about how you choose to percieve this woman’s experience. It’s…odd. This shit happens. Guys need to call it out more when they see it or it will happen more and more. I just don’t get why you care so much, I guess?
I just don’t think, as men, it does anyone any good to keep doubting these experiences as they are described. Whole lot of bullshit comments on this thread.
Men keep your filthy mits to youself or you’ll get introduced to Mrs. Easton:
http://www.firstbasecoach.com/wp-content/u…
I was wondering about the why of that as well styles. is it some kind of thing that a woman who says men are pestering her is uppity or conceited and must be exaggerating and needs to be taken down a peg or two?
why is it so unbelievable? op was specific. she did not say that ‘hordes’ of men were pestering her. she complained that men pestered her when she was obviously busy, otherwise engaged or trying to avoid contact. she is making a complaint about the guys who are doing this, not all guys.
we have a reading comprehension issue around here.
Actually, I do see your point GDM and I agree with you 100%, I just wanted to share my story cause it was funny. I get that there are a lot of douchey, creepy dudes out there, I have lots of friends who are women who have plenty of horror stories and I empathize with them. OP, in this case, is irked that people attempt to talk to her and the only contact she mentions is a graze on the arm – she’s not talking about men making creepy advances at her here and if she is, she hasn’t provided any evidence of these creepy advances (aside from people trying to talk to her when she clearly isn’t in the mood). That’s all I’m saying.
And if some girl came up to me on the street and asked for a date I would probably go on at least one because that never happens. I get that this is different for men and women, though.
Furious,
I’m not angry at all, but, unlike bitches about raisins on pizzas, I do think this issue merits honest discussion. We all know that certain males can be overly aggressive and even threatening in their approach to women and, yes, we should call them out on it. No doubt.
My main concern is that people present bitches like this accurately. This one was totally plausible and had my sympathy up until the claim of being repeatedly and randomly hit on by strangers on the street “the times AGAIN and AGAIN when I have my headphones on and my eyes down as we pass in the street”.
This strikes me as at best a gross exaggeration of the extent of the problem. And if it is, then it contributes needlessly to a culture of fear – and that’s not good for anyone. Women don’t need to be made more afraid to leave their homes alone. The media already does enough fear mongering.
cuja, do you LIKE it when those old fat women do that to you? NO!
and that’s what the complaint is about. it’s gross and unappealing and not right. you should not have to be stuck with that at work and not be stuck with it on the bus, or in a store, library or walking down the street. and course you should complain about it.
similar to the other post from a waitress who had guys stroking her arms while she was taking orders and serving. similar to anyone whose boss leans over their desk and rests his/her hand on a workers shoulder.
Yawn…the best part of playing the victim is that you get to be a survivor.
She only reacts this way because the men she attracts are not the kind she is attracted to. The story would be different if they were, at first glance, her perfect 10. She’d be swooning and telling her friends how romantic it was that a beautiful stranger was so attracted to her he just had to take a chance and put himself out there.
As for the contact, that’s just weird as fuck and, creepy as fuck. Mace that pig!!!
Fact: feminists are annoying.