To the man who entered a SGR bank last week blustering about how “stupid it was to wear a mask outside of a bank” when referring to two teen girls wearing hijabs, trust me buddy, I was way more skeptical and leery of you. When you came in I held my purse just a little tighter after completing my bank machine transaction. —Lover of Our Cultural Mosaic
This article appears in Jun 9-15, 2011.
But had he actually done something, other than make you feel uncomfortable, you would have had no problem at all picking him out of a police line-up. I’m not defending ill-mannered louts and bigots but eventually we are going to have to ask the same hard questions about multi-culturalism that the Brits, the French, the Dutch, the Danes etc. are being forced to confront. Dismissing the question becuase you don’t like what you think it represents isn’t going to make the answer one bit easier to arrive at.
I respect everyone’s right to dress how they like but… why is it that it’s only women’s faces that are forbidden from being shown and never men’s? You never see men with scarves over their faces and only their eyes showing, now do you?
I’d have no problem whatsoever if it was a sexist, oppressive measure designed and maintained to subjugate women. And I don’t care of these women have no problem with it and say that they choose to wear such attire — it’s been brainwashed into them that it’s wrong to show their FACES. And that’s all kinds of fucked up.
It’s not like they’re walking around with their tits hanging out or their boxes blowing in the breeze.
*wasn’t, not was — wasn’t a sexist… measure.
I don’t recall the police ever releasing a surveillance video showing a couple of teenage Muslim girls wearing hijabs robbing a bank.
Lots of white guys and black guys, but no Muslim teenage girls.
Get back to me when it becomes a problem.
I don’t think I should be under any obligation when I’m walking around to keep my face and head bare in order to facilitate the routine surveillance of the general public. I don’t want to live in that kind of police state.
Damn. PK there is at least one culture where the men do that and the women don’t. Do you think I could find that info now, though?
And, so many cultures are so different, who’s to say what’s brainwashing and what isn’t?
In a rush now, so can’t elaborate, but wanted to toss my two cents in.
In this day an age I agree with France. Just my opinion I am sure others may differ though.
Oh guys did you hear about the womens soccer team that wasn’t allowed to play because of the hijab. Ivan is right … we’ll have to confront such questions at some point, who is right, well I don’t know …
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011…
CE: I agree, people should be able to wear what they want, but do you think someone going about their daily lives with a scream mask is going to be able to get away with it? There are stores now where hoodies aren’t even allowed to be worn!
I’m not saying people shouldn’t wear this or be banned from wearing this, it just irks me that these women feel they have to cover their faces. It irks me even more when I hear stories in the news of brother and fathers being arrested for killing their sisters/daughters because they ‘rebelled” against wearing various forms of headwear because it brought shame upon their family.
I know my father would prefer me to cover my ass when I went out, but if I didn’t, I’m sure he wouldn’t actually drown me in a car because of it.
It’s the principle I don’t agree with.
The soccer team wasn’t allowed to wear head coverings on the field for the same reason they aren’t allowed to wear earrings or other things that pose safety hazards.
Why doesn’t someone just invent an appropriate head covering that’s safe to wear while playing soccer? Something that is secure enough to stay on while running but isn’t wrapped around the neck. Or if it has to be wrapped around the neck, use something to fasten it that will release if pressure is applied… like light velcro or something. Similar garments exist for other dangerous sporting events and activities. It really wouldn’t be that hard to make and test. Of course the leagues would have to approve it and everything.
It really doesn’t have to be this complicated.
Ivan, any situation in Europe is not relevant to Canadian multiculturalism. The xenophobic element there did themselves in at the start. They treat the immigrants like shit and then complain when they “don’t integrate” — which is a questionable notion anyway. Particularly in Nova Scotia, we NEED immigrants.
Anyway I worked in a retail store with some girl who wore a hijab (the scarf, not face covering!) and she got attitude about it from asshole busybody customers now and then. Mind yer own business!
What safety hazard, snoop? Google “hijab soccer injuries” and see what turns up. Ponytails and their own shirt collars are just as dangerous. Perhaps they should shave their heads and play naked.
“Why doesn’t someone just invent an appropriate head covering that’s safe to wear while playing soccer?” – They did actually (some from Jordan, etc, wear it), but unfortunately it doesn’t fully cover the neck, as required by the Iranian women. The neck being covered/enclosed is supposedly what is behind the whole “safety issue”. However, I tend to disbelieve that safety is the only issue, considering that the man who imposed the FIFA ban is the same man who proposed a few years ago that women players wear hot pants to make the sport “more popular”. Somethings tells me that he’s not really that concerned with the well-being of female players. The Iranian team was also previously assured by FIFA that their uniforms were in compliance, so this whole thing is a bit more complex than it appears on the surface.
Also: “A hijab only poses a “long-shot” risk of injury to a soccer player, experts said Tuesday, as the debate continued over a 14-year-old Calgary girl’s head scarf.
Both Stephen Brown, a kinesiology expert at British Columbia’s Simon Fraser University, and Maureen Simmonds, director of McGill University’s school of physical and occupational therapy, said it wasn’t impossible a hijab could injure a player. But the chances of it leading to any significant injury were remote, they said.
“I don’t know what sort of imagination you have to have to see this as a safety risk,” said Simmonds, also a former soccer coach.” – from a Canada.com article concerning the debate over a Calgary girl wearing her head scarf to play soccer.
Another good read on the subject:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/08/…
I agree, I don’t think it should be this complicated either. I would think that an organization like FIFA would want to do everything in their power to ensure that these talented athletes can play.
This is a really great article about the whole veil issue as well, written by a young, veiled, Muslim woman:
http://bikyamasr.com/wordpress/?p=24495
Worth a read for anyone who’s actually interested in that perspective.
They site choking as a safety hazard. Whether or not it’s actually a risk is irrelevant if the people in charge are not budging on their ban. But until someone can fix the problems causing this, be that sexism in sports (good luck), racism, or incompetence, we should be presently concerned with making sure these women can play now without compromising their religious beliefs. I don’t believe that it’s impossible to make a quick release head covering that suits the needs of the Iranian women and FIFA. And I don’t believe that these women should have to wait until FIFA irons itself out to be able to compete in the sport they love. Someone should come up with a better design.
good articles meow, as i’ve come to expect from vous^^
Neked Soccer =)
http://www.theoffside.com/files/2007/09/na…
http://www.boxofficefootball.com/wp-conten…
Hijab wearing women have to make the choice for themselves. Us (the Western world) removing the head wear will not remove whatever perceived sexism exists. This isn’t our conversation, so I gracefully remove myself from it.
Now for FIFA, I definitely understand how it could be a hazard, now did they ban it without any ulterior motive, I do not know. I do however disagree with them completely banning the team. Let them play … at their own risk.
*le sigh*
“I don’t believe that it’s impossible to make a quick release head covering that suits the needs of the Iranian women and FIFA. And I don’t believe that these women should have to wait until FIFA irons itself out to be able to compete in the sport they love. Someone should come up with a better design.” – I wholeheartedly agree, snoop. It would be wonderful to see somebody come up with a great design that would get the Iranian team back on the field.
…et, merci beaucoup, paingirl. I try 🙂
Also, high fives for Donk 🙂
either a quick release or make a “regular” one out of a more fragile, disposable fabric that will just tear apart in case of problem? Whatever they used to make Shatner’s shirts with, maybe?
Ivan, I hardly think an unconcealed face is a big deterrent of crime! In fact I’m pretty sure that most crimes are committed by people with unconcealed faces, the vast majority of which belonging to young MALES. People should also realize that although it’s wrong to force a woman to cover her face, its also wrong for someone else to force her to take it off! I’d be willing to bet the feeling of exposure and vulnerability would be pretty high for someone used to covering up their face in public all the time! I personally dont want to live in a society that makea dressing a certain way illegal! I understand that at security checkpoints the requirement of lifting the veil makes sense, otherwise people should mind their own business.
I don’t care in the run of a day if someone covers their face or not. However there are cases where removing the covering is warranted. Those cases are when identity must be proven, whether at a bank, airport to get through security and on a plane, when arrested, during a traffic stop, etc. Other than those types of things, I don’t care.
I’ll bet that there are probably plenty (although still a teeny minority of course) hijab-wearing women out there who dont do it because they are being forced by their husbands, but because they want to maintain ties to a culture they have spent their entire lives in and cannot abandon so easily…say it’s due to loyalty, lonliness for home, or maybe an elderly family member they dont want to disrespect, etc. Who knows? It IS a likelihood that people like this are more mumerous that some of us westerners might think, when you think of it. Take gay couples in the military, for example.; sometimes they have valid reasons for keeping up appearances. Who says there cant be hijab wearing muslims with parallel reasons for keeping up appearances?
“People should also realize that although it’s wrong to force a woman to cover her face, its also wrong for someone else to force her to take it off!” – Exactly, Z. Bang on.
Bro Tim, I’m in agreement. Women who wear the hijab, or other head coverings, do comply with lawful requests to remove them, so long as it’s in private and in the presence of only females. We can all feel perfectly secure without violating each other’s privacy and dignity.
“I’ll bet that there are probably plenty (although still a teeny minority of course) hijab-wearing women out there who dont do it because they are being forced by their husbands, but because they want to maintain ties to a culture they have spent their entire lives in and cannot abandon” – I think the number of women who wear coverings like the hijab because of their own personal choice is much greater than a lot of people realize. The article I linked to earlier discusses that very assertion. To assume that any woman wearing a veil is being coerced and oppressed is to do a great disservice to innumerable intelligent, strong, independent Muslim women who have made a conscious choice to wear the veil because of the deep-rooted cultural and religious symbolism it holds that they personally cherish. The idea that the veil should be banned because some people exploit its use is absurd. For instance, there’s no question of an extensive exploitation of female nudity throughout many cultures, so maybe we should ban all female nudity too? Something tells me the faux-concern of the masses would draw the line before that though.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2009/07/01/horn/
“so long as it’s in private and in the presence of only females”
Makes me wonder….I’ve been searched & patted down by female police and security officers, I’ve been made to remove my shoes (even though it really bothers me to have a stranger near my feet).
I was not given the option to partially disrobe in private, nor was it ‘in the presence of of only males’.
So, answer me this, why should special accommodations be made for an Islamic woman? Is it because she’s Muslim, or female?
“Take gay couples in the military, for example.; sometimes they have valid reasons for keeping up appearances” What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Homosexual cuples in the military have the same restrictions as hetosexual couples.
“So, answer me this, why should special accommodations be made for an Islamic woman? Is it because she’s Muslim, or female?” You know I ♥ ya but who cares.
=) http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_W7f9vYIdcmU/TLfK…
Morning Donk, actually I only care when the potential to affect me is there.
For example, if I were to walk into a bank, wearing my cold-weather motorcycle gear, and not remove my balaclava & sun-glasses, you can be pretty sure that my actions would have an effect on everybodys day.
Hugo, if you were a woman and it was the breast area that airport personel were worried about being used as an area to hide weapons, I think they would probably ask you to step behind a screen to check you. Hijab- wearing women obviously regard their faces as something very intimate. You, on the other hand, are talking about feet, which is a personal quirk and there is no way for security to forsee that somone may not like having their feet or thumbs or whatever touched or looked at.
as far as the gays in military thing I mentioned above, i didn’t so much mean couples as i did gays: many of them keep quiet and follow along with typical behavior associated with military types for various valid reasons. Do you really not see the parallels?
“Typical behavior associated with military types”
WTF?
I’d ask you to amplify on that little gem of wisdom, but I’ve heard it all before.
Well Z, I’ve had searches where a woman had her hands inside my pants around the belt, and I’ve had an ‘adjustment’ like buddy from friends. I didn’t get upset because it was obvious the the searchers were more uncomfortable than I was.
I saw your ‘parallels’, but they suck. Maybe you shouldn’t use the Canadian Military as a comparison to a culture/society/religion where homosexuality is often illegal and punisable by death.
I don’t think Z was trying to make a comparison between how gays are treated by the Canadian military and how they are treated in some communities with a strong religious fundamentalist element, like some Muslim countries or parts of the U.S. of A.
I think what Z is getting at is that the Canadian military doesn’t exactly welcome gays with open arms. The military isn’t unique in that, although it appears to be lagging behind other institutions in accepting gays. For that reason, gays might be inclined to “stay in the closet”, in order to pursue successful careers within the military culture. I think Z was drawing a comparison between women wearing the hijab in order to blend in with a cultural norm and gays in the military keeping their sexual orientation hidden in order to blend in with a military cultural norm.
That’s how I read it. I didn’t understand the comparison to be explicitly anti-military, unless you consider the suggestion that military culture is homophobic to be an insult rather than a simple statement of fact.
Back to the original bitch, I agree with the OP that I’m more bothered by people who routinely slam Muslims for their religious/cultural observances than I am by somebody walking by wearing a hijab.
The authorities didn’t need to elevate the threat level to “RED” because a couple of teenage girls wore their hijabs on SGR.
Thanks Commandante! That’s exactly what I meant. As well as that there are always people from certain groups that aren’t always what they appear; the way that military folks generally are thought to have more conservative views, etc. I think that in general, most people who see a military man in fatigues assume he’a a straight, macho man who has no qualms about killing his enemy. There are plenty of exceptions to that only they are well- concealed all the better due to popular ideas about military that people often don’t bother to question. I was pointing out that looks can be deceiving, even when it comes to a lady wearing a hijab; there are all kinds of grey zones in life and just because we see someone like that doesn’t mean they are declaring jihad to westerners or even have husbands who force them to dress that way. And besides, just because us women here can walk around half naked doesn’t mean we aren’t in part, atleast, doing that for men on a subconscious level.
And Ivan, you can unruffle your feathers because I said: “typical behavior ASSOCIATED with military types.” Associated. Just because associations exist doesn’t mean they are always true. Too fucking bad that people can’t get around their associations of the hijab, like many of the people here on this site who seem to think they’re so much smarter than they obviously are. Some of us are able to look beyond “typical associations”, and that was the very point I was trying to make. D’uuuuh!!!!!
To Hugo; so the only reason you weren’t upset at getting your privates patted down in public was because the person doing it was more uncomfortable than you? Did they not take you into a private room to search your intimates?? If that’s the case, I’d be pretty upset if I were you! If someone were going to check inside my bra for a concealed weapon you can bet i’d insist on doing it somewhere away from the public eye, whereas maybe a woman from one of the many cultures who see breasts as purely utilitarian and her legs as something not to be exposed wouldnt mind so much! Can you see my point??? A muslim woman who covers her face because she belives it is the right thing to do should be GIVEN THE SAME RESPECT!
With regard to airport security measures, I hold a Restricted Area Identity Card imprinted with various personal biometrics like retinal scans and multiple finger prints. It allows me into secure areas at airports which I access either through a crew bypass or a non-passenger screening point.
After placing my eyeball in front of the appropriate camera and being positively identified via retinal scan as the legitimate holder of that RAIC, I pass through a guarded door only to be confronted with the same CATSA operation as the regular passengers downstairs.
Depending on the airport, it’s shoes off, uniform jacket off, laptop out, coins in the tray, etc., while the CATSA person quickly examines my RAIC pass – for what I don’t know. Maybe to make sure I wasn’t holding the real owner’s bloody eyeball up in front of the retinal scanner.
I’ve had a security screener run the metal detector wand through the inside of my pilot’s hat searching for . . . ?
I have no beef with the CATSA workers. They have an important job to do and are bound by the rules that their managers have laid out for them.
But it should be obvious to all concerned that I don’t need to smuggle anything through security to help me gain access to a cockpit for the purpose of hijacking an aircraft. I spend my working day sitting in such a cockpit with the controls already firmly in my grasp.
This simple fact seems to have escaped the folks at CATSA who write the screening rules for pilots.
I’m all for thorough screening of passengers, although I consider those expensive body scanners to be “window dressing” and this opinion is backed up by the former security chief at Israel’s El Al Airlines.
My point about such a misplaced emphasis in security screening procedures is that those responsible should engage their expensive resources countering REAL threats to our way of life (you would have to go a long way down my list before you get to a few hundred Muslim extremists running around Pakistan), not worrying about the possibility that young hijab-wearing Muslim women might rob banks and go unidentified.
There have been married gay couples and openly gay service personnel for a while now and I have heard none being discriminated, whether it be for promotionsm transfers, or even hazing/bashing. Gays in the military is not a big deal or any deal for that matter. Like in the mainstream most don’t give a shit.
As for a pilot or air crew being screened, it’s not a matter of trust. Who’s to say that a pilot or member of an air crew can’t be threatened by criminal/terrorst elements. Commandante, you will take this (drugs, bombs, weapons) on the aircraft or we will kill your family. Just because it hasn’t happened it doesn’t mean attempts have or may be made. Afterall, who expected a couple of 737s be flown into the WTC.
The people who planned it did, Bro Tim. And Dick Cheney.
And has anybody ever thought of asking a hijab-wearing Muslim woman? Probably not. It’s easier to just bitch about it without actually attempting to understand it. Nobody bitches about Jewish women not being able to pray with men at the Wailing Wall though. Or why half naked bitches sell more beer than dudes do.
You’re a pilot! How exciting! ^.^
Well actually, Tom Clancey did. So WTF did Cheney have to do with the execution of 9/11, plan it with Osama and that’s why they fed Osama to the fishies so he couldn’t tell? If you believe that, you’ve been watching too many Oliver Stone and Michael Moore movies.
If you believe Usama did it by his lonesome you’ve been watching too many American news broadcasts and Glenn Beck specials. See? It goes both ways.
Now back to purchasing a new Foghat t-shirt in foghat grey. Now watch this drive.
Did you know Tim that the last 3 years have seen a marked decline in the number of suicide attacks in the Muslim world. It’s got nothing to do with the election of Obama, the death of Osama, the Arab spring, or the surge. It’s entirely due to the Susan Boyle phenomenon. For many, angry, disempowered young Muslim males, this is their first glimpse of an honest-to-God virgin…and suddenly, shameless western houris don’t seem quite so frightening.
Love it Ivan. The virgins don’t look so good anymore. LOL.
The CTs are interesting for sure, but fail miserably when it comes to common sense. I’ve heard all of the garbage but it doesn’t hold up under scrutiny no matter how many times they back up, change gears, and go in a different direction. And yes it takes so much sophisticated training to hijack some planes (well only with El-Al which terrorists won’t touch).
She said she’d never been kissed … never said anything about virginity … Susan’s a real slut in her spare time.
Heh heh heh
Susan Boyle must piss off young Israeli males who call for the death and butchering of all Arabs. I bet they wouldn’t be such cunts if they shut up and ate a fucking pork chop with some bbq sauce.
If I had to choose between listening to Susan Boyle or firing my AK in the air while screeching “DEATH TO THE YEHUD! DEATH TO AMREEKA!” I’d probably choose the latter. But I agree, a giant pork BBQ with lots of Pabst Blue Ribbon is just what the Middle East needs to settle down and play nice. Kinda hard to detonate the old kablooey-vest when you’re balancing a 16 oz can in in one greasy hand and groping a buxom Sabra with the other.
If they are covered head to toe & have their face concealed…How do you know its a girl ?
We already know that Terrorists…KNOWN male terroists are using the muslim veils to hide their identity. To help them escape detection by authorities.
Secondly covering your hair, wearing a scarf or a hat or a hood isn’t unusual in our climate especially in winter…but covering your face in public IMO is WRONG.
IF they can do it EVERYONE should be able to do it & at 6’1″ over 230 lbs…when I walk into a store or a bank with a balaclava on , I am going to be setting off silent alarms & I am going to be taken down by the police PERIOD.
& I don’t blame the tellers or any store owner for being alarmed.
THERE IS NO REASON IN ISLAM TO COVER THE FACE. THER EIS NO REASON IN OUR SOCIETY TO COVER OUR FACES…
MODESTY in DRESS has NOTHING TO DO WITH COVERING THE FACE.
I am all for people wearing what they wish, I don’t even have a problem with the worshippers of the Jedi religion (yes it exists ! ! ! !) wearing hoods as part of their “religious dress” but covering your face is not necessary & shouldn’t be allowed in Public…what you do in your private places of worship, at home etc is your business IMO…in public FACES ARE HOW WE RECOGNISE EACH OTHER.
; its a stupid practice that isn’t even covered under the teachings of the Koran…its some crackpot mullah’s & thats all it is.
http://www.jedichurch.org/
I don’t recall Palestinians doing that. The citizens in Gaza and West Bank aren’t permitted to own firearms anyway. That way their only weapons to use are rocks against tanks.
Paranoid much, More?? How many Islamic fundamentalist males have actually dressed up as a woman to commit an act of terrorism???? I would really like to know the stats, because I’m willing to bet there have been very few! By your lame-assed argument, maybe we should ban super saggy jeans in combo with an extra large white tshirt; because they are associated by some with gang-wear. I bet you’re the type to see a certain member of a certain race dressed that way as a gang-banger, never mind most people dressed that way are not! But you know, I bet there are more crimes committed by guys in saggy jeans and oversized white tshirts than by people wearing the hijab! I could give many more examples but hopefully you aren’t THAT simple.
How dare you tell others what parts of their bodies should be viewed as sacred and what parts shouldn’t: fucking egocentric! There are plenty of westerners who see baring the breasts in public as crude, highly innapropriate for a multitude of reasons, and even blasphemous. does that mean it should be outlawed? Maybe all things associated with crime should be outlawed. We could all go around buck naked, until someone with a super hairy, penis-concealing bush of pubes blows up a building, then they can ban super-hairy, penis concealing bushes!!
In a hijab the face isn’t covered. The head and ears are. Just to be clear.
Just what society is OUR society? Negro please.
Lulz.
Oh jeez Donk, you’re right; i saw “hijab” typed somewhere at the top and just flew with it!
Isn’t it the Burka or Niqab that covers the face?
Hey, Z, it’s interesting you ask about ‘terrorists’ dressing as women to commit “terrorist acts” especially when the CIA has done that in the past. You know how it is though; wrong when ‘they’ do it but it’s okay when ‘our guys’ do it.
There are some western hagasourasas’ (Walmart ho’s) who should be forced to take off the stretchy porker pants, out with the rollers and on with the niqab and hijab – the full covering version.
FIFA are having internal issues about the old brown paper bag full of readies to influence my vote scandals to be worried about bints in burkas on the field.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QfVWU-2pVL4/S_VA…
Special interests rule. All you white males better get used to it. Were screwed. Try getting some of the same rights in an Islamic country. Good luck. A civil society is based on rules. When you chose to cover your face in some star wars costume you are not participating in a society that respects rules. If buddy had an opinion about ghouls on the street scaring kids that was his right as a Canadian. Not being offended is not a human right. Sorry but fuck off. I can still have freedom of thought in Canada. My country will not become a neofasist state run by everybody except the majority that can express any bullshit pc special interest agenda.
“special interests”?
Faggots and brown people keeping you up at night, Tough Guy?
—-I can still have freedom of thought—-
What’s your point? Is it that being told you’re a crackpot feels like you’re not allowed to think the Wogs are lazy and dangerous? You can think that shit. Just don’t expect everyone doen at the circlejerk to say they agree.
Why does freedom of (someone else’s) religion bring out the dipschitts?
freedom from religion works for me. i have lots of “special interests” wp, mostly involving hairy wet kisses, some from the bear too^^
Canada should follow suit with France and ban people from wearing masks, hijabs, etc in public places.
…
that is a very slippery slope sebastard and it doesn’t work
Slippery slope indeed Sebaceous. Here’s an idea for a larf; dress up as a randy mullah for this year’s parade:
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/images_wo…
And, make sure your very lavish employer supplied life-insurance policy is up to date.
Z…paranoid…no just reading a lot more newspapers than you are
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c…
More, terrorists could disguise themselves with other things too, like silly moustaches. Are you suggesting that silly moustaches should be banned too?
http://musie.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/s…
Tell me something folks.
Why are so many of you on board with the so called “right” to suppress women ?
In Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia , Iran, woman can be jailed, tortured for not wearing a veil !
Beaten , tortured & even killed ! ! !
Yet you seem to think they come to our much more liberal countries & we should respect this behaviour ? I don’t understand.???? at all !
IF….& this is how my fucking brain works…. IF you believe they should have this right, & we all need to respect it.
Then we need to respect female circumcision, of young girls.
After all its a religious requirement in many places for Muslim’s as well ….Any one want to say I’m mistaken by that ?
The clitoris has to go….keeps you faithful is what I’ve read its suppose to do ! ! !
Beating a woman with a rod for disobeying her husband is perfectly acceptable in many Muslim run nations. As long as its no thicker than your thumb, beat her & its fine.
IF the veils are a “right” , then it follows logically, this is also a right as well, & should be respected.
You want to belittle me for my opinion, for believeing my mother should never be treated that way,(that NO MOTHER should have to that threat in her life) that my daughters shouldn’t have had their clitoris cut out when they we’re just becoming teenagers. That I believe none of you reading this should be subjected to such treatment .
Fine you do so , & I will reserve my right to call you the ASSHOLE I believe you truely are.
You can’t have it part way.
IF veils are a religious right, forced marriages are as well, it is after all a religious practice in many parts of the world that are Muslim & other places that are not. Selling your young daughter, …sorry… , They call it paying a dowry, to some 60 + year old fuck, so he can
get himself some young poontang, perfectly acceptable to you, just like a veil.
Let us not forget that Sharia Law needs to be adopted as well, after all the religious belief’s say its right,as per their religion, so we obviously need to recognize that.
Or maybe, just maybe you can wake the fuck up & smell the damn coffee & remember we oppressed our women until recently, when my Grandmother was born,a woman had no right to vote in this country…does this mean we need to go back to that as well ? Petty Kitty ? Pain girl ? Ocean chick? Snoop ? Meow ? TTFN ?
Just because some religious group believes THEY should have respect, doesn’t mean it should automatically be granted, because they are a religion.
IF people from other parts of the world can’t grasp that in this country you cannot honor kill a family member because she is acting in a way that your religious belief’s says is deserving of such a terrible act.
In no way IMO should it be condoned & the veil is EXACTLY the same thing. You cannot pick & choose. IF we are going to respect their religious belief (which I have yet to find in any english translaton I’ve looked at in a Koran) Then EVERYTHING ELSE has got to become acceptable as well.
There is no pick & choose .
So go ahead & call me an asshole or an atheist or whatever other insults you can come up with.
But a spade is a spade, it isn’t a heart , a diamond or a club.
Saying the veil is in for Muslims but the beating rod is out, don’t cut it. So if your all for that you’re all, for all of it. That’s how I see it because that’s how many muslims see it.
So sending a clear message in THIS COUNTRY, your religious beliefs will not be tolerated in everyday society, then if they don’t like it they are free to go somewhere else or stay home.
Your parallels are not quite right and your last sentence made me disregard every semi interesting point you made in the argument above.
I will say though … if we were in war, I’d put you the 6’1″ 230 lb person on the front lines running with the axe.
Ban it for security reasons. Fine ban it, but don’t pretend to try to solve some sexism issue by doing that … ’cause it won’t.
——-
Saying the veil is in for Muslims but the beating rod is out, don’t cut it. So if your all for that you’re all, for all of it. That’s how I see it because that’s how many muslims see it.——-
So you spend paragraph after paragraph saying. We shouldn’t extend “respect” to any old religion that asks for it, pointing out how Muslims believe all this fucked up shit, then you allow(to attempt to bolster your “point”, I guess?), “That’s how I see it because that’s how many muslims see it”.
Do they deserve this “respect” or not? Pick a hole and fuck it.
——–So sending a clear message in THIS COUNTRY,——
The message being people can practice their religion freely, without assholes treating them like assholes?
—— your religious beliefs will not be tolerated in everyday society, then if they don’t like it they are free to go somewhere else or stay home.——–
You’re a Patriot and a statesman.
…and 10 interwebs for using “Moms” in your argument, Mr Beck. Crying in front of your whiteboard wasn’t uncomfortable at all.
Lol’d
“we oppressed our women until recently, when my Grandmother was born,a woman had no right to vote in this country…does this mean we need to go back to that as well ? Petty Kitty ? Pain girl ? Ocean chick? Snoop ? Meow ? TTFN ?”
why are you asking them?
they’re women, they don’t get a say.
The simple fact is (and please someone prove me wrong here I’m dying for someone to do it) — women in this particular culture are being told that it’s inappropriate (which is just a nice word for ‘wrong’) to show their FACES. You can’t tell me that’s not subjugatitive (lol I think I made up a new word) behaviour. And I actually do agree with More-on here — women are being beaten and KILLED by their family for not wanting to partake is such ‘traditions’!!!! How can you guys defend that (which is essentially what you’re doing!)? We’ve only heard of a handful of cases in NA — who knows how frequently this goes on in Middle Eastern countries! Further, up until the early 1960s, women in quebec were considered MINORS under the law! They couldn’t hold titles to property and they couldn’t have custody of their own children. How’s that for hitting a little too close for home? Anyone who dares to say that women have ‘equal rights’ and take that for granted needs a smack upside the head.
I’m far from being a feminist, but you can’t fucking deny that this is just another way to marginalize women under the guise of ‘religion’ and ‘culture.’
I don’t care who does and doesn’t wear head coverings, to be honest — if you want to, as a women, allow yourself to be marginalized just because you were born with a vagina, well, then, giver, but don’t fucking tell me it’s anything but a prime example of an oppressive expression of societial attitudes in certain ‘cultures’.
…
with regards to fgm, in some tribes, women perform the butchery. even if you escape an oppressive culture, your family will still try to control your life in whatever country you end up in
This whole controversy with the hijab or veils or turbans is really just an extension of the hidden Western cultural mistrust of Muslims dating back to the Crusades. The society in which we live was borne out of Judeo-Christian teachings and vision which, historically, has been at odds with the Muslim world.
Further complicating matters is the fact that our society, at least on the surface, promotes equality regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation. Islam has an image here of subjugating women, at least the most orthodox of those cultures.
For me, the gut instinct is to say “hey it’s just clothing, it’s traditional for them, it’s part of who they are.” However, I have to consider that many Islamic nations treat their female population as second-class citizens so should I hate the head garb because I love the women in my life?
A possible parallel to this would come out of pre-Mandela South Africa. I see a proud Afrikaner with the South African flag on his hat. Should I find that offensive? They treated blacks with little dignity and often brutality as part of Apartheid. I have a sister who is bi-racial, I should hate the hat. Right?
I have little understanding of Muslim culture and how many women want to wear traditional garb and how many are pressured to. To be sure meOw’s downloaded piece about the young veiled woman who had two master’s degress by age 22 was inspiring and shows that it is very difficult to judge people.
This issue isn’t black and white. We in the West need immigration, the boomers are retiring and the birth rate has declined. I think multiculturalism is a great thing, we need to open our doors to cultures around the world but, at the same time, any perspective emigrant needs to understand the laws and expectations of Western society.
“Canada should follow suit with France and ban people from wearing masks, hijabs, etc in public places.”
First Canada should follow suit with India and make it illegal for males to be gay. If seb can be “insensitive” then so can ol’ NGF. Fucking crybaby haters out there.
Torquing up you asshats is too easy.
i love the new bat troodon. looks like a gremlin
WOW Petty, you & I agreeing on a topic ( I guess there’s hope that humanity might not blow up the planet after all )
I would like to add I see the face masks as “the thin tip of the wedge”
Get us to all be OK with that…& more modest dress codes then need to be adopted.
Then give the Church more power over families etc AKA -control !… in the Muslim faith its Sharia laws. Will be next their next “reasonable request”
We live in a much more liberal society. We’re not secret about this & we shouldn’t have to conform to their belief system. They come here, they should adopt our culture & blend it into their own.
IF their only intention is to come here & be confrontational. Why bother ?
I have no problem with anyone who meets the Government requirements to become a Canadian from coming here, we’re a huge geographical country & can surely fit them in & I wish any of them all the best…but don’t come here telling me how its got to be…
I’m pretty happy with the way things are going, I would like to see taxes cut back [ ~;) L O L ] & the Political Parties (which ever one’s in power) actually put us, ahead of themselves, but wouldn’t we all .
what really bothers me is the fact that, the men of the family will plead it as an honour killing. they actually think they are the wounded party when they kill a women in the family. no no no you don’t get to change our laws to suit your religious doctrine