This article appears in Dec 11-17, 2008.
Bitch rules
Come on people– don’t name businesses, and really, I’m not going to start a bunch of racist shit here, k?
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This article appears in Dec 11-17, 2008.
27 Comments
Why is the Coast paranoid about naming businesses, whether comments are positive or negative? Are you simply afraid of offending potential advertisers or is Tim Bousquet’s USA mindset setting in again?
The point of the bitch section isn’t to badmouth businesses or individuals, but to vent frustrations which can happen anywhere, to anyone. So naming names is irrelevant.
People often vent about specific people or businesses, and I can see why the specific naming would be disallowed. There is no way to verify the truth of much of what’s said, and some of the companies named could even be Coast advertisers. I don’t really know anything about law but I’m sure they don’t want to be sued for libel.
Question, isn’t the use of the word Nazi in your name borderline racist in itself? If not full out?
i think Nazi these days is meant in the ubiquitous sense as someone who is either exercises extreme control over something or is particular about detail and rules. The use and meaning has changed quite a bit since the 40’s. I think the phrase is often over used these days, but then again so is labeling things as being racist.
Perhaps, however, people are still aware of its origins, and while I doubt any holocaust survivors are on this page, it’s fair to reason someone could be offended by the use of the term.
i’ll agree to that.
Then let those who are actually offended speak up. They don’t need us assuming what will offend them or not. That’s one of the roots of PC rediculousness.
er, “Nazi” isn’t racist. It describes a political movement, not a nation or race. The third commenter hit it on the head– *I* can write about a business, because I’ll at least call the business to get a denial of whatever ill deed I’m accusing them of, and print that too. But it’s immensely unfair to just accuse businesses of, say, illegal acts, without giving them the opportunity to respond. Especially when I have no idea who the accuser is, what motives he/she has, etc.
“Tim Bousquet’s USA mindset setting in again?”Closet, If you feel so cavalier about the onset of frivolous lawsuits, then why not offer to pay The Coast’s legal fees for any subsequent legal woes. Most sane people don’t agree with these filings, but that doesn’t stop the scumbags from launching them… the lawyers are the only winners.
Nazism is synonymous with racism – which is a very reasonable connection to make simply because genocide was a deep political motive of that particular political party. Maybe “web site fascist” is a better term because Nazis were basically fascists…but then no one would understand what a “fascist” is…. the political party of the nazis was National Socialism – but that sounds terrible when you write “web site national socialist”… and too benign. “web site totalitarian” probably wouldn’t work either – doesn’t have a good ring to it – “web site dictator” isn’t good either – I like “web site tyrant”, connotes absolute power and autocracy, but without the genocide.I also understand that it comes from Seinfeld’s “Soup Nazi”, but those were the heady days before the turn of the century when that kind of thing was ironic and funny.
Since we are on the topic, “Nazi” also signifies the iron-fisted, regimented, fanatical superiority complex that Hitler imbued in the German military and to some degree the country as a whole. Racism was just a part of the whole. Dictionary.com says: “…derogatory term for a person who is fanatically dedicated to, or seeks to control, some activity, practice, etc.” In my mind, THAT is the most relevant definition in the context as we see it used today.Thus, everyone is right. Thank God. Or should I say “Thank the being who presides over the fate of humanity, if you believe in that kind of omnipotence”.
I think that if a brand new world wide release video game – Call of Duty: World at War, can include a sub game called Nazi Zombies, and not get in touble for it, that Tim is safe. But not from the zombies…
I guess the real question is if racism is the intent behind a comment or name, or how it’s perceived. There are other words that can be said in a non-racial context, but rightly so taken that way. I can draw a bunch of swastika’s somewhere, and it would automatically be considered racist. When the symbol itself originates from hinduism.
Swastikas were appropriated by the nazis, yes, but in world consciousness its now THE symbol of injustice, genocide, bigotry and totalitarianism. Think of it this way – the toothbrush moustache is simply a *moustache* but if you wore it these days, you would be representing Hitler, or at least you would be likened to Hitler by others. People would ask why you had a Hitler moustache; so why should the genocide be taken out of the nazi, but not out of the moustache? Times change and peoples understanding of symbolism changes. I would never represent myself as a nazi even if it is ironic – and the word nazi was a portmanteau from the german word for Hitlers party: National Socialism; they are related but have come to mean different things.And if someone trashes a restaurant or business on the forum, who cares? If they want to respond, then they can… I have never read any article – or even a single word for that matter – that has not been written without personal or political bias. Its the way of the world, just because someone can hide behind a little anonymity (even though this website puts cookies on your computer and records IP addresses which can easily be tracked down) doesn’t mean that their opinions need to be censored.So to recap: Nazism = Fascism + GenocideFascism = Totalitarianism + Public CensorshipPublic Censorship = Bad
The swastika is an extremely powerful symbol. The Nazis used it to murder millions of people, but for centuries it had positive meanings. What is the history of the swastika? Does it now represent good or evil? The Oldest Known Symbol – The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. (That even predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh!) Artifacts such as pottery and coins from ancient Troy show that the swastika was a commonly used symbol as far back as 1000 BCE. During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika was used by many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe. Though it is not known for exactly how long, Native Americans also have long used the symbol of the swastika. The Original Meaning – The word “swastika” comes from the Sanskrit svastika – “su” meaning “good,” “asti” meaning “to be,” and “ka” as a suffix. Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II. A Change in Meaning – In the 1800s, countries around Germany were growing much larger, forming empires; yet Germany was not a unified country until 1871. To counter the feeling of vulnerability and the stigma of youth, German nationalists in the mid-nineteenth century began to use the swastika, because it had ancient Aryan/Indian origins, to represent a long Germanic/Aryan history. By the end of the nineteenth century, the swastika could be found on nationalist German volkisch periodicals and was the official emblem of the German Gymnasts’ League. In the beginning of the twentieth century, the swastika was a common symbol of German nationalism and could be found in a multitude of places such as the emblem for the Wandervogel, a German youth movement; on Joerg Lanz von Liebenfels’ antisemitic periodical Ostara and as an emblem of the Thule Society. Hitler and the Nazis – In 1920, Adolf Hitler decided that the Nazi Party needed its own insignia and flag. For Hitler, the new flag had to be “a symbol of our own struggle” as well as “highly effective as a poster.” On August 7, 1920, at the Salzburg Congress, this flag became the official emblem of the Nazi Party. Hitler described the Nazis’ new flag: “In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic.” Because of the Nazis’ flag, the swastika soon became a symbol of hate, antisemitism, violence, death, and murder. What Does the Swastika Mean Now? – There is a great debate as to what the swastika means now. For 3,000 years, the swastika meant life and good luck. But because of the Nazis, it has also taken on a meaning of death and hate. These conflicting meanings are causing problems in today’s society. For Buddhists and Hindus, the swastika is a very religious symbol that is commonly used. Chirag Badlani shares a story about one time when he went to make some photocopies of some Hindu Gods for his temple. While standing in line to pay for the photocopies, some people behind him in line noticed that one of the pictures had a swastika. They called him a Nazi. Unfortunately, the Nazis were so effective at their use of the swastika emblem, that many do not even know any other meaning for the swastika. So there you have it boys and girls. Wikipedia has spoken.
I would just like to point out that Tim is using the word Nazi and NOT the swastika itself – Just sayin
Well, aside from the fact that right at the top of the LTWWB page, it CLEARLY states:“Bitches are anonymous (no specific names or IDs—for either you or who you’re bitching about) and may be edited for length, grammar, spelling and our lenient standards for propriety.”If a restaurant was named specifically in a bitch about a case of food poisoning, and everyone who reads it tells everyone to stop going to said restaurant, and said restaurant has to close for lack of business and somehow finds out that the bitch was published without their knowledge, consent, or side of the story, there could be some pretty significant recourse, because this is a public forum that purports to be moderated. (Especially if it was the owner of a competing restaurant that started the whole rumor as a means to get their competition out of town).In an unmoderated public forum you could say whatever the hell you wanted, and any recourse would be handled by you, on your own. I am sure that the Coast would rather not be named as a co-defendant in a lawsuit. They’d rather your sorry ass gets sued without them.Therefore, they either have to not moderate the site (in which case certain vermin-spewing plagiaristic trolls would be able to say whatever they wanted and ruin our playground for everyone), or moderate and take out specific references to people or businesses that might cause a ruckus out there in the “real” world.So arguments about nazi-ism or swastikas aside, try not to specifically point out the name of an establishment or person. Relatively easy to use “a certain royal pizza joint on a corner” and have that potentially stricken than come right out and say “(name removed by me so the Nazi didn’t have to)” and completely blow the sentence you were trying to get out by having no noun in it. (At which people will start bitching about your inability to structure a sentence thereby starting a more annoying bitch).
Yeah, kay!
Yeah, boohoo, stop “censoring” our words, Website Nazi! Don’t you know you’re trampling on our right to slander businesses and random people as we wish on your privately owned website? I bet if we started our own website to slander people you’d probably try to shut that down too! Right??? But we could never do such a thing anyway! Because our self-expression can only be channeled through your fascistic LTWWB medium! Yes!Ok, I’m done.
I didn’t mean to imply he used a swastika. I was making a comparision in response to the word nazi having other meanings then racial. Also I’m not saying that anyone should be banned from using the term, I was simply pointing out that he made a comment not to post anything racial when he himself was using what could be perceived racial user ID. And when it comes to racism, ageism, sexism, or any of the other isms, perception is all you need.
Well I can slander and Mole Rat can pander – whatever- as long as we are not censored doing it. Also I have never heard of a publicly-owned website… Dipshit.
Yeah, that’s kind of my point Optimus. The fact that this is a privately owned website overrides the fact that this is a forum that can be posted in by any member of the public. They then have the right to moderate it as they see fit, either to be fair or to cover their own ass. It’s hardly the same thing as “censorship.” Plenty of differing (and often retarded) opinions are allowed to be posted here, and if the person REALLY wants you to know what business they’re referring to, there are ways of getting around the “no naming businesses” rule. I don’t see how that silences anyone.
Actually, it’s something I see on a lot of comments boards. People get warned, or their posts deleted or not published in the first place, for breaking perfectly reasonable rules, and then cry “oh, you’re trampling on my free speech.” People don’t seem to realize that free speech isn’t necessarily about being able to say anything you want, wherever and whenever you want.
It takes the potency out of the bitch: we are all about negativity here and if we can’t be negative towards people, places and things then the very idea of this forum is self-defeating. Circumventing with obvious clues just appears weak, like “There is a certain current prime minister of Canada that shan’t be named who’s a total prick.” Can’t I just say that I think Stephen Harper is a prick? — Or “I know a restaurant on Robie St. across from the Bloomfield Center that never cooks their eggs properly” I should just be able to say: Mary’s Cafe always undercooks my eggs!Will the world end if people voice their dumb opinions (mine included) on a forum whose specific purpose is to voice that opinion?Granted, moderated comments are good in many ways: keeps out the trolls, bigots and big “C” conservatives. And obviously it might be hard to figure out if a bitch is someone seriously complaining or someone viciously spreading gossip, or it may be both.And truthfully, I haven’t been censored personally, but it just rots me when people don’t name names. Why should they care about any of us think?
I guess you can say those things…since you just did 🙂 But I understand what you mean.I dunno….I guess maybe it’s just a general policy to try to keep those references out, to cut down on it, just in case it causes a problem. And honestly I don’t see much difference between the bitches and the comments. I don’t understand why one is moderated and the other isn’t. Maybe because the bitches are considered “part of” the newspaper (whether published or not), while the comments are simply “comments.”
Also the fact that moderation is time-consuming.