To the driver who kicked off that autistic kid on the 14 today because he was making noise, you’re a fucking asshole! I hope you lose your job, you ignorant SOB!

I seriously hope the CBC, CTV and Chronicle Herald write an article about this jerk-off driver!

—PO’ed bus passenger

This article appears in Aug 27 – Sep 2, 2009.

227 replies on “Autistic kid kicked off the bus”

  1. WOW….did the bus driver know that he was autistic? Was the person making a hugh disruption? I wouldn’t want to be the bus driver.

  2. AHHHHHHH why dont YOU call the Newspaper or News station yourself dumbass….do you think the Coast editor or one the readers is going to do it for you?

  3. I’m with Frenchie on this one, OP. News doesn’t create itself; there has to be a source or a someone has to relay the information to the media.

  5. Because he was surrounded by his friends and volunteers of an autistic kids summer camp probably clued the OB in.

  8. Wow, Halifax sure knows how to make national news, eh? Especially our bus drivers.

    This asshole should be fired. Fuck!

  9. You know, I have never had a problem with any Transit Driver in 40 years. I find that most of them are pretty good, and just wanted to get their job done. This, however, goes beyond the pale.

    He should be fired, but he won’t.

    Since this is an anonymous bitch board, queue the “There’s no such thing as Autism, it is bad parenting” trolls to show

  10. You mean ‘cue’, right? Just ribbin’, no harm.

    Didn’t Pamela Anderson cure her kid of autism?

    I know, there’s no cure. Just making conversation.

  11. I disagree that he should be fired tho. The whole situation could have been handled better starting with the camp counsellors who should have asked for transfers as they boarded the bus as insurance in case they needed to get off earlier than planned. When the incident began they should have pulled the cord and gotten off at the next stop and calmed down the young fella.

    The NS Utility and Review Board’s rules for public passenger buses clearly state that the driver is permitted to remove a person who is creating an unsafe environment for the passengers and driver. A loud tantrum by an autistic child is enough to disctract the driver and lead to an accident involving a busload of people. The driver simply followed the motor carrier act. However he probably should have explained it better to the group and passed out transfers as a courtesy.

    The people bitching on here and on other media outlets seem to forget that they’d also be the first one’s bitching about the driver had this outburst and the resulting distraction led to an accident enroute.

    The behaviour of this kid, though not his own fault, is unacceptable in any public setting. It could result in a major motor vehicle accident if a driver is distracted and perhaps its time transit officials finally come up with a list of acceptable and unacceptable conduct aboard our system, then give the drivers some sort of protection for when they boot someone off for something clearly defined as unacceptable behaviour.

  12. If a bus driver can’t concentrate on the road because of a kid having a panic attack somewhere on the bus he shouldn’t be driving a fucking bus on our city streets in the first place.

  13. V_O_R, well thought out comments, but I have to diagree.

    I do think he over reacted, and I wonder if he would do the same to a crying baby, or a group of loud teens.

    As well, you state “The behaviour of this kid, though not his own fault, is unacceptable in any public setting.”. I hope you meant that as the bus only , and aren’t advocating that handicapped or mentally challenged people have no place in society if they can’t “behave”.

  14. Cue!!!!

    Your (You’re) rite (right).

    It is Jenny McCarthy who is leading the irreponsible vaccines make kids sick campaign.

  15. “The behaviour of this kid, though not his own fault, is unacceptable in any public setting.”

    Whaaaaaaaaaat? Seriously?

  16. Obviously Cranky has never been behind the wheel of any kind of bus where you are responsable for those sitting/standing behind you. The driver is entitled, by law, to a workplace where conditions are safe for his ability to get the passengers to and from their destinations safely.

    If one or more passenger make it the least bit unsafe for him and his riders then by all means use the motor carrier act rules and deal with the situation. The rest of the passengers and those sharing the road will thank you for it.

  17. Yeah, my thoughts are coming along the lines of ‘what if it was a bunch of teenagers being obnoxious’ situation….

  18. Yes Jennie – a restaurant owner could ask someone behaving in this manner to leave because it’s interfering with his ability to earn a living from the other 50 customers who wouldn’t want to hear the tantrum, same with a retail store and certainly the same on public transit where people’s safety is being put at risk.

    The father of the child admits to removing the child from wherever they may be when tantrums occur and he’s not demanding the driver be fired so its safe to assume the father knows that business owners and employees can request the kid be taken elsewhere and simply takes the matter into his own hands before it gets to the point of no return. The camp councillors obviously failed to do this same thing.

  19. We all know in advance what MT’s reaction and action is going to be….
    Maybe special needs people need to sit at ‘the back of the bus’? eh?

  20. Cranky – if a group of teenagers (or any passengers) are being obnoxious or offensive and the driver isn’t reacting, then grow a set of balls and demand that he/she handle the situation as its offensive to you as a passenger.

  22. Mathew Luthor…if you cannot conduct yourself in public, because of mental health problems. Then you shouldn’t be out in public. If the actions of someone whether mentally ill or not, endangers others, then that is an unacceptable risk & the councillors should have figured out a different way to take themselves & their charges out to whatever activity they wished to go to.

    We don’t allow sick people with say tuberculosis to wander around in public places why is that ?
    Is it perhaps they are a possible hazard to the public ?
    I personally don’t care what problem someone may have, if you cannot control your behaviour in public ,then private transportation is how you should travel. None of us who were not there have no idea exactly how disruptive this situation was. But playing the ‘blame’ game, & immediately assuming the driver is in the wrong, for me is like a justice system where you are all guilty…unless you can prove your innocent !

  23. most posters are missing the point,it’s the series of bad decisions that seem to plague Metro transit,this must be addressed by getting rid from the top down and hire ‘professional “drivers that don’t flip out when doing their duties…i find the drivers here in halifax rude,impatient and arrogrant…they all need to take courses in basic hospitality,a smile goes a long way

  24. More = Douche

    voice o’ reason = I understand what you are saying and agree with the reasons behind why you are saying. This is one of those cases where you have had to have been there to fully appreciate the situation and the action taken. Of course, the media doesn’t have to worry about that.

  25. Wow… People can be so intolerant. You drive a fucking bus, if you can’t deal with distractions then you’re in the wrong profession. With all the issues with bus drivers lately, this story is going to end up being such a huge deal and this bus driver will probably lose his job.

  27. From The Herald

    During the bus ride, Izaak started screaming and camp counsellors did their best to calm him down, but Croft said the driver told them Izaak’s shouting was making it difficult for him to drive.

    When the counsellors explained they needed some time to settle Izaak, the driver ordered the child off and refused to hand out transfers when all of the children and the counsellors also decided to leave the bus, Croft said.

    Patterson said a videotape recorded by a surveillance camera aboard the bus indicates the driver told a counsellor that he couldn’t keep driving if Izaak’s “piercing” outbursts didn’t stop.

    The spokeswoman quoted the driver as saying: “I can’t drive if that keeps up.”

    Patterson said the driver did not ask to have the boy removed from the vehicle, and it appears Izaak and his counsellor got off the bus voluntarily.

    The other counsellors and children left the bus at a subsequent stop and were denied transfers because the group was apparently riding for free, a common courtesy the transit service extends to groups on special outings, Patterson said.

  28. Wow, VOR. You are truly unbelievable.

    I’m so appalled by your reasoning that I can’t even respond.

    I truly hope you never have a child with a disability in which they have uncontrolled outbursts. I hope on one you love ever suffers a brain injury, and can’t always control their beahviour. Actually, maybe I do wish that on you. Maybe it would teach you about tolerance.

  29. And FYI, VOR –

    This is from the Human Rights Act:

    Prohibition of discrimination

    5 (1) No person shall in respect of
    (a) the provision of or access to services or facilities;
    discriminate against an individual or class of individuals on account of
    (o) physical disability or mental disability;

  30. The mentality echoed by virgomom is exactly what transit drivers have to put up with in most cities:

    “You drive a fucking bus, if you can’t deal with distractions then you’re in the wrong profession.”

    Obviously she looks down on the bus drivers who, for the most part, get their passengers to and from their destinations safely and as quickly as possible. She seems to think that a serious distraction isn’t something that would impair a driver’s ability to get those passengers delivered without incident and sadly she’s mistaken.

    I’ve held back making this comparison but I’ll toss it out there: A dog or cat loose in a car and jumping all over would be a distraction which could lead to an accident. Why? Because it takes the driver’s attention off the roadway.

    How is a disruptive person aboard a bus any different? It’s not different… the driver has to look away from the road to glance at his mirror, can’t hear what’s going on around his bus and has to decide whether to deal with the issue or let it continue knowing full well people like virgomom will be there to crucify him no matter which choice he makes.

    If virgomom works in an office, industrial or retail environment then she’d know that her employer cannot allow the workplace to have hazards that could affect her safety, so that means putting policies in place for action should an incident occur. The NSURB already has that policy in place for bus drivers and that means the driver can refuse to continue conveyance to any passenger that affects his safe workplace surroundings – be it mentally or physically. A clear head is just as important to physical well-being to a transit operator.

  31. Jennie – being a passenger on any form of public transit or being a customer in a private place of business (ie. a mall) is not a RIGHT, its a PRIVILEDGE.

    The mall or store owner can demand you leave because they don’t like your haircut or makeup colour if they want, they can also demand you leave if causing a disturbance that is bothering other customers. And its 100% legal.

    The bus driver made a choice and the truth seems to be coming out about it. The group left the bus on their own and didn’t get transfers because they didn’t pay in the first place. The driver was then able to continue his route safely and it was probably appreciated by all the other passengers.

  32. Voice of Reason

    A loose cat or dog = autistic child.

    I’ve held back making this comparison but I’ll toss it out there: Voice is an arse.

    I get a very strong feeling that you are a transit driver covering for one of his union brothers.

  33. Wrong on all counts Matthew.

    I used the comparison because it’s been explained that the boy doesn’t know any better when it comes to behaviour because of his condition. Well the same could be said for any dog or cat as well as they can’t exactly pick right or wrong for a situation, especially when put into unfamiliar surroundings.

    Those surroundings could be a car horn honking or freaking out at the dog on the sidewalk. For the boy, it could be the strangers on the bus, different scenery or even just having a bad day.

    Either way, the boy, dog or cat could easily distract a driver of a motor vehicle with deadly results.

    And yes I do occasionally driver passenger buses, often with special needs passengers but in those cases I’m prepared for what I’m heading into, the groups usually have professional chaperones on board and I can keep a pretty open mind when it comes to what these folks can control and what they can’t. I have no problem letting someone attempt to deal with a tantrum while driving but if it gets too out of control I have the duty to pull over and wait until there situation is done with. Its for the safety of my passengers, others on the road and myself.

    Am I a union member? Nope, used to be and can see good and bad to both employer/employee relationships but I am standing up as a transit passenger who would prefer to not have a higher risk of an accident when a distraction is causing the driver to take his eyes and brain off the road.

  34. I think it definitly could have been handled a lot better. I do not look down on MT drivers. I’m very respectful to them even when they’re assholes. I bring books for my kids so that they don’t get bored and act up. I always say thank you when I get off the bus and hello with a smile when I get on. Obviously the details are coming out now and the camp people left the bus. I can see why they didn’t give transfers if they could ride for free anyway. But MT drivers NEED to be able to deal with distractions. If a bus is full, its going to be loud and they need to be able to handle it.

  35. You know, I have been on busses with drunk/strung out people yelling, and the driver didn’t kick them off…

  36. Maybe this was the same driver who gave me a hard time over my (still valid) transfer yesterday because I didn’t shove it right in his fucking face. I showed him the transfer upon boarding like I always do, and when I sat down I got a lecture from the prick about how I’m supposed to show the date and time and then in his paternalistic asshole prick tone asked “what time does the transfer say?” If I really didn’t have to be somewhere I would’ve said “It says it’s time to eat my ass”….but if they’re kicking off mentally challenged children…my chances of staying on were slim.

    Is it just me, or is MT’s PR rep lacking in skills? She says the same thing over and over. WTF does she get paid for? She releases the same media release over and over — just changes the dates. FFS. And instead of all that flowery crap she could just as easily say “it’s not our fault” and the idea would be just the same. A driver could shank an old lady for asking for a transfer and MT would claim it was the old lady’s fault because hay! it’s not MT’s fault.

    This is disgusting, and VOR, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying people with mental disabilities shouldn’t be out in public (because that’s what your comment boiled down to) — why don’t we just lock them all up in institutions so you don’t have to be “uncomfortable”? Maybe you’d have to deal with this child for 5 minutes, maybe an hour, but ever think of what it would be like to deal with this child 24-7 like his parents do? Friends of my family have mentally disabled children, and I have relatives who were (both are deceased) mentally disabled and it’s hard as SHIT to take care of someone like that. You bet your ASS Izaak deserves an apology.

  37. Halicowton — I’ve been on busses where drunk men were sexually harassing me and yelling at a guy across from me because apparently the guy was a “fruit” and as such he was going to beat the shit out of the guy for being a “fruit”, while i was sitting at the very front on the side (in plain view of the driver) and the guy was sitting next to me and the driver didn’t kick that guy off….

    But I guess the REAL danger here are the 8 year olds with autism. How DARE he not be institutionalized so MT drivers (and people like VOR) don’t have to deal with the realities of human life.

  38. I’m with VOR on this one.

    What if the kid ran up and grabbed the wheel?

    I have tremendous empathy for those living with autism, and their carers, but it seems a small matter to have, like someone said, left the bus and got things under control with the child.

    A dispute, and angry defiant voices will only worsen the situation.

    I expect no-one would complain if it was a small aircraft and the pilot wanted to land for safety?

    And yet, a moving vehicle is 100 times more dangerous due to sudden ‘piercing’ outbursts and the possibility of a physical interaction with the driver, than a small plane is…

  39. Being loud on a bus, BMF is a lot different than running up and grabbing the wheel.

    A drunk person could just as easily run up and grab the wheel — and when’s the last time you’ve heard of a drunk kicked off a bus?

  40. Regardless of what any of you say, MT drivers reserve the right to remove ANYONE if he or she feels they pose a risk to a safe trip. If the driver did not feel he could drive safely, due to the distraction of the autistic child’s piercing cries, then he did the right thing for every other passenger on the bus. And yes, halicowton, you likely have seen countless drunk, loud passengers on the bus not being kicked off, but it does happen.

  41. Voice, if you can’t understand how comapring this child to a cat or a dog is offensive, you are either a sociopath, or a troll of the first degree.

    From Voice….”And yes I do occasionally driver passenger buses”

    CALLED IT!!!!

    Sometimes I amaze even myself

    But then Voice says….”I have the duty to pull over and wait until there situation is done with.”

    But you said…and then you said…..

    Better pull over and have a nice long smoke Voice.

  42. PH, what you describe are criminal offences. Did you not have a cel phone to call the police?

    The driver is not a security guard, although I would like to hope that if any of the criminal “threats” turned to actual physical violence, other passengers would have aided. You cannot, however, expect bystanders to become invloved at the verbal level…in fact there have been cases where men, thinking they were “defending the honour” of a verbally harrased person, have ended up charged…

    Ironically, it is sometimes the same folks who feel that MORE security is needed in public places that campaign AGAINST closed circuit cameras, monitored by police, calling it an “Orwellian” invasion of privacy…

  43. Point IS, MBF is that the drunk guy was yelling loudly — probably just as loudly as this kid, and he wasn’t kicked off.

    The rest were just details to illustrate the guy’s obnoxiousness.

  44. “”A drunk person could just as easily run up and grab the wheel — and when’s the last time you’ve heard of a drunk kicked off a bus?””

    A “drunk” would be kicked off the bus if the driver felt that the safe operation of said vehicle was not possible.

  45. Pretty Kitty – I never, ever suggested that people with mental disabilities not be allowed out in public. What I am suggesting is that there are appropriate places for certain behaviours for everyone.

    Is it appropriate to expect a restaurant packed full of people to tolerate a temper tantrum by a non-mentally-challenged 2 year old? Nope and most parents would realise that and remove the child from the situation for their sanity and the comfort of other patrons. The restaurant owner would be appreciative as he needs the income from the other dozens of people seated at the tables and not just the money coming from the family with the child.

    With a mentally-challenged child its the parent or caregiver who needs to make these appropriate decisions and do it quickly as it makes it easier on them, the child and those around. It would seem that the camp cousellors made the appropriate decision by getting off the bus but perhaps they could have been a bit more on their toes and matters wouldn’t have gotten to the point they did.

    I had the pleasure of taking a busload of kids on a summer camp outing this past week, on the way home one of the young fellas had one hell of a hissy fit (for lack of a better word). The camp staff warned me in advance this might occur and I was mentally ready for it. It wasn’t serious enough to warrant pulling off to the shoulder and waiting it out but it was a Tylenol x2 moment none the less. For the next 60 minutes he ranted and raved at the top of his lungs. Had I been in the city trying to navigate rush hour congestion then I might have pulled over for a bit but the rest of the group appreciated making the treck along the highway where at least they got a cool breeze while someone tired themselves out back there.

    The staff handled it with professionalism not often seen by teens or a bit older getting paid minimum wage. You could tell these guys and girls enjoyed their summer jobs!

  46. “”VOR, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying people with mental disabilities shouldn’t be out in public”‘

    They shouldn’t, without proper supervision and potential for restraint, if they pose a clear and real threat to the safety of others.

    I DO expect though, that the upcoming mock “outrage”, if allowed to expand out of proportion, will lead to a suspension and possible (depending on his record) firing of the driver. Is that REALLY what you want, you bloodthirsty jackals?

    Maybe he’ll top ‘imself like the seal-hunter driver – happy then?

  47. In 40 years on the Halifax bus system, I have never had a problem with one of their drivers.

    I have never seen one of them ever kick a passenger off a bus, which makes me think this driver had a bit of a chip on the old shoulder.

    I think that the last group of hires they got, may have a few problems going on.

  48. Whatever Matthew Luthor – you’ve obviously forgotten we are all animals. Thankfully humans evolved a bit more than Rover and Fluffy.

    The charter and tour business is different compared to transit driving in that I, as the driver, have 100% say in whether I move the vehicle or not, when passenger behaviour is an issue. You see the person or company paying the invoice will want to know why the extra 2 hours is charged and if my employer explains it was because someone was breaking the rules and their driver parked the bus then the person breaking the rules will be hearing about the $200+ difference. It could cause trouble at work if it was a workplace-related trip so in those cases people are usually well-behaved.

    However not too many of the people paying $2.25 on a transit bus are willing to tell the driver enough is enough and please deal with the troublemaker. Right now there is no incentive for decent behaviour on transit because rules are not enforced by drivers and management. Start cleaning up the system by banning some of the sleazy trash that offends everyone on the buses and then you’ll have a more relaxed group of passengers and operators who would probably react differently in an event like that boy’s episode.

  49. Best thing they could do, is to release the tape.

    If it shows the driver being professional and kind, so be it. It would then stop us “back-seat drivers” from ragging on him.

  50. They can’t release that tape thansk to privacy laws. Those same laws prevent transit management from looking at random tapes to see trends re. grafitti and shit-disturbers.

    A formal complaint needs to be lodged and only HRM/MT officials and the complainants (or parties involved, incl. HPD and the accused) can get viewing access to the tapes. They can’t air the footage on the news because, for example, a person who called in sick might be seen coming home loaded on the bus and his boss is watching the news. That just “invaded” someone’s perceived right to privacy.

  51. So Voice you say “Thankfully humans evolved a bit more than Rover and Fluffy.”

    But then you compare an autistic child to a cat or a dog.

    So by your own brillant logic, austistic child equals animal.

    Your posts speak volumes about your character.

  52. If I’m ever unlucky enough to have a accident when deadheading back to our bus yard perhaps Mr. Luthor will be in my path to soften the blow 🙂

    Stop reading into things already. I can’t stand people who twist things to suit their agenda and always enjoy saying it when it happens face to face.

    My employer and their clients know me as a person and I can’t recall the last time my character came into question. I don’t think I need to answer to you.

  53. Quote from CH article: “Croft said his son, Izaak, was one of 15 autistic children taking part in a day camp field trip when the boy boarded a bus Wednesday in downtown Halifax.
    He said the boy, who he described as classically autistic with no ability to speak, is sometimes over-stimulated by loud noises, certain smells and large groups of people.”

    The only people he should be demanding an apology from is the Camp directors and councilors themselves. Who in their right mind would bring their autistic charges onto a bus that clearly would have had at least two of the specific “triggers” mentioned in the article “over-stimulated by loud noises, certain smells and large groups of people.” Actually scratch that…ALL OF THE TRIGGERS that would distress and upset those kids.

    The camp should have asked Zinc Bus lines for a donationcharity bus for the day and used a private bus…one where the children could have been transported in a more appropriate environment and one that would have ensured (or at least improved the odds against) that a distressing outburst did not occur. You have to understand that in groups like that…when one child starts to become upset, it is emotionally stressing to the others as well.

    It was unfair and clearly poor judgment on the camps part to subject these kids to a public bus, they should have known better in the first place. I am not excusing the drivers actions (should it be determined that he did act inappropriately) but the campcouncilors have to accept their part in all of this.

  54. Right on DER?

    Some of the smaller bus operations here in HRM have discounted rates for non-profits. Whites Transit and Perry Rand Ltd (aka the defunct Zincks) have school buses that would have been economical. They could have also asked HRM to donate some time if a Metro Transit bus was available for use on a “drop and return” basis. You might not get the same bus and driver for each direction but its possibly a cheaper way to get this group around without triggering any sensitivities they have on a regular transit route.

    Last idea would have been to ask one of the local car dealers to sponsor an outing by providing a van or vans.

    Guess this is stuff the summer camp can work on over this coming winter.

  55. And FYI, VOR –

    This is from the Human Rights Act:

    Prohibition of discrimination

    5 (1) No person shall in respect of
    (a) the provision of or access to services or facilities;
    discriminate against an individual or class of individuals on account of
    (o) physical disability or mental disability;

    You stupid bitch, the kid was booted off for being a safety hazard, not because disabled.

  56. Ay ay ay, is it just me, or has our PR lady aged quite a bit this year? If she retires, I want her job strictly out of curiousity.

    That said, I suspect she may be covering something up as is the job of PR people, be it transit, government, evil corporations, etc… I can’t say how I’d react as I wasn’t there, but something that distracting could be best handled just by pulling over for a minute. My experience with screaming kids is that most of the time, parents do try to calm their kid down. Something tells me this was the case here too. It’s not uncommon for young ones (autistic or not) to not like being on a bus, and usually they calm down once they exit. Do keep in mind that drivers are responsible for driving safely.

    PK, I’ve kicked a drunk off the bus before. I also witnessed two drunks vomiting into their entire hidden liquor supply (garbage bag). The whole thing was so funny (and they were the last ones left on the last bus) that I did drive them home. They ruined a lot of beer, punishment for sneaking liquor.

  57. PDG: you wouldn’t need to do much but say “we’re investigating, but it’s not our fault” if you took over this particular genius’ job. You’d probably get a pay raise too.

    A good PR person doesn’t “cover things up” PDG. It’s the shitty ass ones who do, and often they do it so poorly it makes us all look like shit. I really don’t know how or why she still has her job.

  58. The driver said the noise was distracting, he couldn’t hear his buddy on the other end of the cell phone he was using as he drove with his wifey standing illegally alongside him telling him what’s for supper. He was so distracted he ran over 3 cyclists, who oddly enough were actually on the road, without helmets, drinking fair trade coffee made by a barista with an attitide who had dined at a restaurant where the server was a grade A quiff who was pissed because people wouldn’t acknowledge him.

  59. I gotta throw in my support for VOR….you voiced your opinion and I like how you backed it up..as for the dog/cat/autistic kid comparasion…jesus chris people, we’re all animals and I hate how people can’t stand when an animal is compared to a human…we all bleed, shit, fuck, etc….just because we are smarter doesn’t make us better! I also agree with DER? that the camp should have hired a private bus rather than subject the kids to the confusion of a public bus and subject the passengers to the ‘piercing tantrum’ of the kid.

  62. Oh, and they did pay their fare, but the “oh so stressed out” Bus-boy refused to give them a transfer.

    Hell of a job Bussy! Hell of a job

  63. Matthew – the group paid nothing! Transit agreed to provide them with free travel and thats right from the mouth of Lori Patterson on the news. And its looking more and more like the group got off the bus voluntarily… the truth will come out and hopefully the driver doesn’t feel like he has to commit suicide before the public gets their hands on him.

  65. It sounds like the news purposely reported that they were kicked off ‘without given a transfer’ just to make the headlines when in fact the group didn’t need a transfer as they didn’t pay….I hate when the media riles everyone up without any respect for the facts!

  66. I have a question for PDG: have you or your co workers ever kicked a mother with a screaming baby/toddler having a tantrum off a bus?

    See, I’d have more sympathy for the driver’s decision if they were kicking everyone off that screams: i.e.: screaming babies/toddlers…It’s ridiculous to think a baby could get kicked off a bus for doing what a baby does: scream, so why is it OK to kick off a mentally challenged boy because he’s doing what he does?

    Let’s just lock him up in an institution and throw away the key so no one has to be “inconvenienced.” As if life isn’t full of inconveniences as it is. Human societies have all kinds of people from all walks of life with all sorts of differences (including disabilities of all natures), and as part of a human society, it’s just something we all have to deal with and accept. So suck it the fuck up. The noise I’ve heard on busses with not a peep from the driver in any form of “STFU” probably doesn’t differ from this situation. This driver probably just thought the kid was being bad and once he found out he was autistic he stood by his guns to save face.

    Like I said, do drivers pull over and bitch about screaming babies? Probably not (trust me, you’d hear about it in the media)…so what’s so different about this kid?

  67. But a crying baby can often be dealt with by giving a bottle, soother or another distraction like a toy when older.

    This child has a history of acting out when on the buses and his father admits to getting off the buses in past episodes, so where do we draw the line? The baby can be dealt with easily but it seems this boy only comes around when removed from the bus.

    Personally I’d have no problem with a driver asking a parent to calm their child but knowing how some of the trashy’er people would react probably keeps the drivers from speaking out. The rest of the good parents would try to do something if it the driver spoke to them.

  68. Oh Voice and Junebug, so sorry.

    Did you just watch the story on the news?

    The one where the camp said that they paid for the trip?

    The one where they said that they were not let on the bus for free because they had none of the free passes left?

    And that Lori was wrong?

    Oh you didn’t?

    Maybe you should.

  69. And once again Pretty Kitty – Metro Transit has already issued a quote that stated the driver simply stated he couldn’t continue driving if the fuss continued. The counsellor and child left the bus… since the boy is a minor then its up to the counsellor to make a decision and he decided both would walk off the bus. A free choice. The rest of the group made the same choice a few stops later.

  70. Yes Pretty Kitty, I believe Voice is working on colourful little badges that people could wear to better distinguish them.

  71. If the group was issued free tickets then its up to the group leaders to request transfers when boarding the bus. Its a clearly indicated condition in the Rider’s Guide and I believe on the back of transfers.

    I already said they should have asked for transfers when boarding as insurance in case they needed to get off the bus early, 15 kids could require a bathroom stop enroute.

    But here is the info from the Metronews.ca story:

    “The other counsellors and children were denied transfers because the group was apparently riding for free, a common courtesy the transit service extends to groups on special outings, Patterson said.

    “You have to have paid to get a transfer,” she said. “They didn’t need a transfer … because they didn’t have tickets to begin with.””

  72. “He just couldn’t continue!!!!!!!”

    The stress, and agony of a child yelling!

    In tears, with hands clenching the wheel, the brave Bus-boy fought back the confusion and anarchy in his brain!

    The yelling! The yelling!

    Like endless jungle drums! Burrowing into his head, displacing thoughts of that well deserved smoke break in the non-smoking area!

    Finally he snaps! Striding by the passed out drunks, crying babies, threatening teens, and cursing frat-boys, he set his sights on the child.

    Hooking his thumbs in his size 60 belt, he smiled, knowing that he was striking a blow for them all, respect would finally be the Bus-boys’!

  73. This has spiraled into a drunk whore show pretty quick.

    My 2 cents, if I was the driver, I wouldn’t be driving with a kid screaming in my ear.

  74. I was on the bus going home one evening and there was a 4 or 5 year brat on the bus with her part-time dad (I say p/t because his comments made it sound like he just found out he had a child & baby mama)….this kid wouldn’t shut up and he had NO CLUE how to deal with her…she was loud, screaming and rude….I wanted to turn around and tell her to STFU but…sat there fuming instead…but it’s a tough situation as she was disruptive to the whole bus, everyone kept glancing to the back of the bus and rolling their eyes but do you kick them off and make em walk? And for the record, I’ve been a single mom from day one and have taken the bus with my daughter from day one…the one time she tried to pull that shit I gave her one warning (if you act like that we’re getting off the bus and going home) and when she tried it again we got off the bus and went home….she never misbehaved on the bus or in public again…it’s called discipline and not making empty warnings that you won’t follow through on…

  75. Geesh Voice!

    They didn’t have free tickets and they didn’t need transfers.

    Do you ask for a transfer every time you board a bus?

    Stop trying to justify their error.

  76. It wasn’t crying it was ear piercing screams. Just imagine driving on a busy street then hearing a scream like that. Most people instinctively react when startled. A bus full of people + traffic + startled driver = a very possible tragedy. Had this happened, I’m sure there would be a completely different bitch.

  77. annnnddddd Junebug wins the “autism ain’t nuthn’ but bad parenting” award.

    Golf clap Junebug!

    Your story has no bearing on this thread.

  78. I bet MT will make its workers rent and watch Rain Man and write it off as “sensitivity training”.

  79. Matthew would be another jumping on the bandwagon to get the driver had he been in an accident and we’d see Matthew typing about how the driver ignored the screaming and put the rest of the public in danger.

    No one is suggesting a crying baby or even a minor tantrum is going to get to a driver but you’ve got to realise that the driver may have been at the breaking point when it came to the intensity of the 8 year-old’s outburst. The driver is responsable for his passengers’ safety and if he told the group he couldn’t continue until things calmed down then he was protecting his passengers, other road users, his employer and himself as all parties would be affected in the event of a collision.

    The real issue is that he is being accused of kicking someone off when it would seem that is not the real story. But as usual, people in HRM are ready to kill the driver before the truth comes out. Apparently “innocent til proven guilty” is only applicable to those doing the bitching. Let the system run its course then see the results.

  80. Matthew, my point was that maybe everyone on the bus wanted that kid kicked off but didn’t have the balls to say it! And yes, I did rant and veer off a bit at the end of my post…I do that sometimes….oops!

  81. When I don’t use a pass I always ask for a transfer seeing how they are now good for at least 90 minutes in any direction. You never know when you might want to stop mid-trip for a coffee or run an extra errand. Plus you can usually get a quick shopping trip done for the $2.25 fare if you schedule things correctly.

  82. What if a blind person suddenly gained or regained their sight and began yelling/screaming, “I CAN SEE! I CAN SEE! HOLY FUCK I CAN SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!”

    Then used their white cane to maybe do a song/dance routine in the aisle? I bet they’d be applauded instead of kicked off.

    Blind people still get to ride for free.

  83. Voice, they were on their way back to the camp.

    They didn’t need transfers.

    You just can’t admit you’re wrong.

    And if you are seriously saying that this placed the bus in imminent danger, man, what a word you live in.

  84. No, NGF, the Bus-boys wanted to pull their passes because….

    In best William Shatner voice….

    Can’t Stand The Clicking Of The Cane!

  85. I’m not going to admit to something thats incorrect. And yes, if the driver’s concentration was affected by this outburst the bus passengers and all those around were place in danger. The driver recognised his limits and stopped the bus, spoke to the camp staff who then decided to get off the bus with the child.

    As a commercial driver, my ability to earn a living is contained in the almost two decades of accident and incident-free driving as reflected in the driver’s abstract my employer pulls every year. That little plastic drivers license requires me to be of sound mind to drive my passengers at all times and if something is so annoying as to cause me to stop the bus and deal with it then yes, I’ll do it because I’m the one who will have to answer if I ignore it and something occurs.

    In the end, the driver is responsable for the safe operation of his vehicle and it’s up to you to show he overreacted, which is damn near impossible to do in an industry where erring on the side of caution is prefered to taking a risk.

  86. Matthew Luthor: You are also starting to have no bearing on this thread as you are ignoring facts as presented and not even attempting to debate others posts, you would rather throw insults and baseless accusations than discuss the matter. You sir are swiftly spiraling into a forum troll.

    The blame lies with the Camp, plain and simple. This was not the usual outburst of a petulant child, have you ever witnessed an autistic outburst? It is (not always…but certainly can be) quite beyond a regular tantrum, you have to understand…these kids do not comprehend what is socially acceptable and have difficulty interacting in a manner that is considered “the norm”. When the word Piercing was used…I am going to have to believe that is exactly what it was…beyond all reasonable expectations of regular tantrumoutburst…you know those ear shattering top tier screeches babies can sometimes emit, the ones that border on ultrasonic? Yep…that’s likely what was occurring…in the confines of an aluminum box.

    The camp should know their wards and their patterns/weaknesses…and absolutely should have opted for some form of private transport donated to them…with the right PR person they could have had O’Regans throwing vans at them hand-over-fist. Heck…they may already have that person…and this is merely a PR stunt to get the vans they need (not accusing them of that…but just putting the idea out there).

    You are assuming that it’s the Big Mean Bus Driver’s fault and he should pay righteously on the cross for the Court Of Public Opinion, but think…he knows there’s video and audio recordings of his actions…would YOU be an ass and pick on the autistic kids if you knew your every move was being monitored? Not likely and that is why I think the driver did exactly what he said he did and nothing else.

  88. Now what are people going to bitch about now that those pesky little cameras are on the bus. Hard to argue with audio-visual. Wait. I know what will happen. People will say that MT has an A/V soup mix to alter the tape.

  89. And DER? pulls out the “I don’t agree with you so you are a troll” card. Congrats

    And why would the driver do that if he knew he was monitored?

    I have no clue, why do cops beat people while they are being filmed?

    And as to why I won’t “debate” people, they are denying fact, so why bother.

    Oh and DER?, I’m not the one who makes posts like “Hey…I am shocked there was not even a single peep out of the Kaytard…wait, let me confirm the posts again”

    Now that’s high-brow debate!

  90. Matthew:
    1: I did not say I think you ARE a troll…I said you were spiraling because you weren’t debating…you were doing what you just did in the post I am now relying to now…just emotionally retort with no real debate or facts. I also don’t entirely disagree with you really, if the driver proves to be the one at fault and is a total ass on candid camera…string him up by all means…I will bring the rope and the popcorn. But read my two posts here and you can’t say that I am not debating here and now and with fairly sound points.

    2: When presented with someone that is ignoring the facts, it’s not going to get your point across by beating them verbally…debating them until they see your side while they still may not agree with it they will may still “see” it.

    3: Cops don’t beat people when they KNOW they are being filmed…it’s when they think they aren’t that they get all slappy slappy with the batons.

    4: Me and the Kaytard have a special back and forth here…and I am sure you have read some of her more ridiculous posts, so I do admit that I sometimes wake up in the morning, hoping to have a rather entertaining flame war with her as she can be quite ignorant in her views (though not always…sometimes she surprises the hell out of me), so really don’t use my interactions with just her…she is a rather “different” case.

  91. If he was “over-stimulated” because of large crowds and loud noises, keeping him in that environment was supposedly the right thing to do? The parents say the driver “ordered him off” the tape recorded “I can’t drive if that keeps up.”
    Matt an MD ya, right.

  92. Beat the parents –

    The reason I posted the Charter information was because VOR suggested mentally disabled patrons should be kicked out of a restaurant if they have an outburst.

    Tell me, where’s the safety issue there?

  93. maybe some of you should try driving one of those fucking monsters with all the distractions, everyday. me, i’ll stay the hell off the streets when you all do. it is no fucking picnic, listening to kids(kall) screaming,loud phone callers, swearing,and just plain fucking rude assholes, mal and female. try it and see if you can keep your sanity for a week, i know a lot of these people that drive them, and i feel sorry for most, but not all of them.

  94. Jennie, if those people are affecting the profitability of my business and horrifying my customers, they are gone. No exceptions.

  95. Jennie – The business owner could resort to calling the police and let them decide whether or not the person having the outburst falls under the Charter criteria. The business owner operates a business to earn a living and he/she is not goint to risk losing 100 customers for the sake of one who can’t control himself.

    Once the cops come over and suggest to the person that they leave because of their behaviour, the business owner can then tell the person that they are not wanted on the PRIVATE property and issue notice under the Property Protection Act. Returning to said property would be considered trespassing and would be treated as such by law enforcement.

    It would probably be a rare occurence when such an issue arose concerning a mentally-ill person but the laws are there to protect ALL parties: The person having the particular mental condition and his/her well-being, the business or property owner who has a right to keep his/her property in suitable condition to attract/keep customers and then there are the rights of those patrons to consume their meal (or whatever service the business offers) in a setting and atmosphere that is within the set social norms.

    It doesn’t have to be a safety issue in this case Jennie, but if you want to push the envelope then I’d suggest lit candles and pots of hot liquid don’t mix when it comes to distractions of the wait staff. Can you imagine the outcry if this boy’s ear piercing screams suddenly occured as a waitress was pouring a cup of coffee at a table and was startled enough to spill HOT coffee on the customer. Theres your safety issue.

  97. $10 says if the driver would have known this incident would capture the attention of national news media he would have quickly developed a coping skill for one noisy kid… like most assholes… if they know they’re going to be observed being the asshole suddenly they’re not an asshole but little miss sunshine able to make a personal concessions for 30 minutes. We all have it in us but tolerance in Nova Scotia is hard to come by… obviously.

    I made it through about half the comments and just have to say… the danger of a cat loose in a vehicle is not so much the potential distraction but the potential for kitty to take up residence underneath the brake pedal. Can’t say the same about most dogs. You’ll notice there is no “law” telling us to crate pets during transport. Why? Because the government is NOT Daddy-For-Adults. (I also think a Big Mac in the hands of a driver is a far greater distraction than noise of any kind)

    More, “if you cannot conduct yourself in public, because of mental health problems. Then you shouldn’t be out in public…”
    I say the “public” can go fuck themselves until they find themselves a good, solid coping skill! The mentally disabled have a right to be and we healthy folk have a responsibility to see that they do. More, your intolerance is not uncommon but it’s WRONG just the same. Go be a GOOD Canadian now and recognize the child had adult accompaniment. There be no steering-wheel grabbin’ here thanks to the adults and the fact that the kid weighs maybe 50 lbs (easy enough for an adult to handle physically) but there’s no help for the noise. Boohoo.

    VOR, “Yes Jennie – a restaurant owner could ask someone behaving in this manner to leave … same with a retail store and certainly the same on public transit where people’s safety is being put at risk.”
    MT is NOT a private business. MT is a PUBLIC service and, no, the same rights and privileges private industry enjoy do NOT extend to pubic service (ie. profitability). Public service has a very public mandate (and your tax dollars to back it up) to service the public, not just healthy-public. Anything less is discriminatory and (shameful).

    No, I don’t think the group should have arranged for private transportation especially given the nature of their work and especially given the nature of PUBLIC transit. Nova Scotians could have been proud they take care of their own but they just don’t. This is certainly a newsworthy topic and will hopefully lead to greater awareness of the horrid “assitude” many Nova Scotians embrace.

    Finally, if the driver followed protocol in “dealing” with a distraction interfering with his ability to do his job (service the public) then I ask why is MT splitting hairs over transfers and voluntary versus ordered disembarking? Why doesn’t MT stand behind their policy if the driver was really following it? I’ll tell ya why… because the driver was an ass and now everybody knows.

  98. as i said before,if half the assholes bitching about this guy driving here, actually tried for one week, you’d be fucking nutso in less than that.try it sometime you fucking big mouth asswipes. til then shut the fuck up, and maybe youtube might aquire the video. i’m sure some good samaritin had their fucking cel cam filming the whole thing, no, then too fucking bad. talke it that the driver considered the many over the few, or the one for safety. mine, or yours, can’t have lawsuits for being smart and not getting people killed now, can we.

  99. LIFE SUCKS, not everybody is cut out for every job (duh) so nobody has to STFU. There’s still time for a chill pill.

  100. Consider this… If the group left the bus voluntarily do you think they would have notified news media or even the boys parents about the incident? Right.

  101. If I’m ever patronizing a business and the owner ejects a person with a mental disability for having an outburst because it may make other customers “uncomfortable” for a few minutes, you can be sure it will be the last time I give them my business.

    A little sensitivity goes a long way. Not everyone is able bodied and “perfect”. That doesn’t make them any less human.

    Sadly, I rely on MT so I’m not in a position to discontinue giving them my business.

  102. PK: Have I kicked a mother off over a screaming baby? No. Have one of my coworkers? I wouldn’t put it past a couple of them, but we’ll just say also no, smile, and nod. I would crap my pants in glee if we could get a Nick Naylor-type PR person in that office. Don’t know who Nick Naylor is? Go rent the awesome Thank You For Smoking, then come back and see me. As for NGF’s suggestion, I say call it in. I need an excuse to show my fiancée Rain Man.

    Kay makes a good point too. If all was well, why was media alerted in the first place? In cases like this, take what the affected party says, then what MT says, find a point about halfway between the two stories and that’s what likely happened. I wasn’t there, so take my words with a grain of salt.

  104. I would assume anyone who’s accompanying a mentally disabled person to a restaurant or store would be familiar with dealing with their outbursts. I’m sure they also know how to handle the situation. I highly doubt the parents of an autistic child are going to let an outburst go on for any great length of time before they go somewhere else to regain control of the situation.

    Are those of us who are mentally sound and physically able really that self-important that we can’t deal with a disruption for a few moments?

    VOR, I find your hot coffee argument incredibly weak. Any patron in a restaurant can bump into a server and cause them to burn themselves. A group breaking out into “happy birthday” could startle a server and cause them to spill coffee on a customer. A group of guys cheering after a goal in the big game could…

    I really don’t believe a disabled person poses any greater risk than any of the above situations.

  105. Now you know how important it is to do well in school so you can spend your hard earned dosh on a shiny new car so you don’t have to put up with this stuff….
    Or become a pimp and get an Escalade

  106. Kay – MT may be a taxpayer-owned service but that doesn’t mean people can’t be denied a ride. There are laws in place that ensure passengers and the operators have a safe trip aboard the buses and ferries.

    First is the MVA and NSURB (public passenger bus) regulations which detail how a driver is responsable for the safe operation of the vehicle and that he/she is not required to drive when someone or something on or off the bus makes it unsafe to do so.

    Secondly are labour laws which dictate that employer provide a safe workplace and do everything possible to reduce workplace hazards. There are also labour laws that tell the drivers (and other employees) to stop if something is occuring that makes continuing the task at hand the least bit dangerous to the employee or those around him/her.

    And yes people get banned from the transit system from time to time for everything from lewd behaviour to outright violence, all which make for an unsafe and less-than-enjoyable trip for both passengers and drivers.

    The driver got overwhelmed by the ear piercing screams and decided to stop his bus, tell the camp leaders that he couldn’t continue on while the tantrum continued and while they could have sat on the now-stopped bus, camp staff decided to take the boy off the bus. It was their own decision. I’d have an issue as a daily transit rider if my driver continued driving while something was obviously affecting his ability to safely operate the bus. Safety trumps all other regulations at that point.

  107. But Jennie – in those examples you listed the restaurant owner could ask those patrons to leave but you are trying to say that because someone has mental issues the owner has no recourse? Yeah right… it’s his business, his property, his call.

  109. I’ve witness all of those things take place in a restaurant or pub, along with crying babies, and a whole host of other “distractions”. I’ve never seen a business owner kick anyone out for celebrating a birthday or getting excited about a goal.

    I’m not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of what’s legal and what’s not when it comes to kicking people out of a private business. I do, however, know a thing or two about what’s morally and ethically right.

  110. Kay – you question the media being contacted if the incident never occured but perhaps someone at camp got in trouble for making an error in judgement and that person then tried to cover their ass by contacting the parents and twisting the story a bit. Then the media gets contacted….

    Or an even simpler possiblity would be someone who knows the Croft family saw the camp staff and the young boy walking along the sidewalk, away from the rest of the group. That person then calls the Croft house and lets them know what he saw. The family then calls the camp officials and the thing blows out of proportion once the media is contacted by the family or camp staff.

  111. Jennie- why don’t you step off the “execute the driver before the trial” pedestal and let the system run it’s course. The answer will eventually come out.

  112. You’ll note, VOR, that I’ve said nothing about this particular case, or the driver. We don’t know the whole story, so I’m refraining from passing judgment.

    I only entered the debate when you suggested mentally disabled people shouldn’t be in public if they can’t control themselves.

  114. I have listened to what both sides have to day in the media and there are a couple of points that continue to bother me. The first is that the child was clearly in distress and this distress was caused by being on a crowded bus, why didn’t his caretaker remove his from the bus and find a quiet place where he could calm down before resuming their trip. I have seen this day camp around the city and each participant is assigned their own caregiver, so it would not have been difficult for the 2 to get off the bus while the group continued on. The second thing is that the driver would not out of good will or to make life easier for everyone just give the group transfers. I guess at the end of the day, hindsight being what it is, both sides could have handled the situation a little better.

  116. I’ve seen this camp at my local playground about once a week and I must say, they are awesome with the kids. You can tell they adore them and it goes both ways. Also, I wouldn’t have known that all the kids were autistic had they have not been wearing bright red autism camp tshirts. Had the bus driver given them a few mins I have every confidence that the camp could have had the situation in control.

    I’ve seen some pretty distracting shit go on on buses and not once have I ever seen a bus driver kick anyone off, even when maybe they should have. So why this boy? I think the bus driver was having a shitty day and just couldn’t deal and took it out on the boy.

    Hell pay for his intolerance now that its all over the news. I almost feel bad for him.

  117. For the same reason our tax dollars go to accommodate our disabled population with ramps, bus passes and appropriate seating the front line staff must also be appropriately trained for the public conditions in which they work. I agree, if the driver felt his ability to navigate the bus safely was severely diminished with all that racket going on then, absolutely, he’s required to stop the bus. MT shouldn’t show anything less than perfect support of their driver and their policy if these are the facts so…?

    My gut says the driver wanted to choke the adult who was in charge of the boy and acted badly, not too different from drivers loosing their shit on stuffed seals in downtown streets. Overall, the multiple instances of media attention MT drivers are getting recently makes me question the level of training (patience/sensitivity) public service workers are required to have… like, any? Any at all?

  118. This isn’t a patience/sensitivity issue. It’s a public safety issue – cut and dry. Let me ask you something:

    Why is it illegal to operate a motor vehicle while wearing headphones? You fucking well know why.

    And if this little fuck is being a similar distraction, he’s gone, off the bus. No debate, no whining. I’d like to smack his welfare scabbing lazy ass parents right into the harbour where they belong. Shut the fuck up.

  119. Jennie, there is a huge difference between startling a server and a bus driver. One might cause you to get a slight burn and/or messy clothes. The other the death and injuries of many people and a lot of property damage. Ever have someone come up to you and tap you on the shoulder, unexpectedly? Now the same thing while driving a bus on a busy street with passengers.

    I suppose the driver could have stopped the bus and wait 5-10 minutes for the child to calm down but then there would be bitches about the bus being late. missed transfers, etc.

  120. Obviously I get that Bro Tim. It’s VOR who’s trying to say people with mental disabilities shouldn’t be in restaurants because their outbursts might startle the server and cause her to spill hot coffee!

    Like I said, I don’t think we have the full story about this particular case, so I’m not going to make assumptions about who’s at fault.

  121. Beat the parents, “Why is it illegal to operate a motor vehicle while wearing headphones?”
    Because the driver needs to be able to hear sirens on emergency vehicles, not get hit by trains while crossing railroads… that sorta thing, ya little punk. Smarten up you lippy little shit.

    Sensitivity training enables soldiers to perform their duties while under fire. Sensitivity training ensures the doctor has appropriate bedside manner. Sensitivity training ensures interrogators get the information they need while using physical force only as a last resort. Sensitivity training… I don’t think it’s unreasonable for public transit drivers to have some. It’s not as if their customer base is the quiet-subdued kind trying to fill out a form or post a letter. Without it, the bus stops “for your safety”. Do the math.

  122. Metro Transit is saying that it is not true…whom to believe a bus full of people or metro transit that might get sued?

  123. Kay, wearing headphones is a distraction. You can have the stereo turned up and not hear sirens, but headphones are a different story, same a fucked up screaming kid. Sensitivity has NOTHING to do with safety, and has no place in this conversation. It’s safe or it isn’t, and if it isn’t safe, you DON’T FUCKING DO IT!!! This isn’t a negotiation.

  124. Beat the parents, “wearing headphones is a distraction…”

    If the driver were wearing headphones he would have been able to do his job oblivious to the screaming kid… similar to what sensitivity training might have done but without (illegal) electronic devices. We’re talking about “ideal” conditions for driving versus “impossible” conditions. It is a negotiation… between the driver and the passengers who rely on him to safely do his job. Are you saying sensitivity training would not be beneficial for drivers prone to lose their shit over screaming kids and stuffed baby seals? You need to remove the blinders (and the emotion) to imagine a sensible solution. Notice there were no other passengers insisting the driver do something. This was all about him. I say train him with some coping skills.

  125. The cretins that used a stuffed baby seal, covered in fake blood, could have used some of this so-called “sensitivity training” as well.
    Perhaps I have the right to walk down the street and not see that on every street corner…

    There are some things that just are not acceptable in society. For those that compare the shreiking of this autistic child to a simple baby crying…did you hear it? I expect it was unaturally loud, random and blood-curdling…

    As far as mentally ill people having the “freedom” to go anywhere, do anything…no they don’t. Many severely ill folks like chronic masturbation and smearing the walls with feces…do they have that right to do THAT in public as well?

  126. You can’t concentrate and do your job with headphones on or have a kid screaming to the point of distraction. it doesn’t matter what anybody thinks other than the driver who is responsible for the safety of himself and his passengers and the public. SAFETY IS NOT A DISCUSSION OR A NEGOTIATION. The driver makes the decision what is safe and what isn’t – simple as that. You live with it. That’s how it works and has to work in the industrial world.

  129. heh heh

    “stay in a lot”

    ?

    ?que? What makes you say that? Although perhaps it’s more and more true the older I get…all the scowling faces and noisy brain-dead children have that effect on me…I avoid Halifax like the plague.
    Although I’m here right now, taking a break from tracking some clav, but the studio doors remain firmly closed for fear of dumpster divers and Mormons-at-the-door…

  130. Yes, that’s right Frosty. Keep mentally disabled people locked up in their homes. If we let them out in public they might masturbate or smear feces. Riiiiiiiiight.

    For what it’s worth, I’ve done a fair bit of work with mentally disabled people, and I’ve never witnessed either of those things.

  131. frosty, there are mentally ill who drool all over themselves too. It takes a certain stomach to watch. Personally, I’m not cut out for it but I’m not working in a job servicing the public. That drooling citizen certainly has a right to pubic transport.

    Beat the parents, you keep saying “safety is not a discussion or a negotiation” like this phrase written in stone, law and one size fits all. I disagree. Some people are better suited for public work than others. ie. some people take real offense at any confrontation. These people are not suited for front-end service positions. And I’ll (again, for your little brain) suggest sensitivity training would have improved the driver’s circumstances. Have you heard some of the decibels blaring out of young men’s hotrod’s? You’re telling me it’s impossible to deal with distraction and drive? I just beg to differ. Different people have different levels of tolerance… most of us LEARNED tolerance in the first place. A lot of us could afford to LEARN it better.

  132. Kay, that phrase is written in stone, and for good reason. This has nothing to do with ‘public work’. It has to do with safety, whether at home or public or in a factory. There is no place for bleeding hearts here. If you come into my workplace and start doing things which are unsafe, you’re gone – that’s it. You don’t get to argue or negotiate. You’re out. That’s what keeps workplaces safe. You don’t have the right to tell the driver what he can or cannot tolerate. The same as you can’t tell the little fuck-up to stop screaming. Driver rules. Period.

  134. I’m just dumbfounded by Beat the parent’s willingness to stay in the box where never shall new information enter so as not to contaminate the box with wisdom. Poor thing.

  135. You just aren’t capable of understanding workplace safety, because you have never been an equipment operator. Safe workplaces follow specific protocols. That’s it, that’s what keeps people safe. You have no experience, therefor no pertinent knowledge in this case. When the operator has decided that the workplace is unsafe, that situation is corrected before continuing. End of story. Driver rules. Kid shuts up or gets off.

  136. I’m a WHIMS grad… gimme a break. What experience is this that I don’t have to state sensitivity training would improve everybody’s safety if imposed on a bus driver? Do you even know what it is? You work for MT, don’t you, BTP?

    Listen, I agree, if the driver find it impossible to do his job when it’s noisy, you’re right, safety comes first and the bus stops. Step out of the box for a micron of a moment and wonder what might have gone down if this training I speak of had been applied. This bitch would read all together different. It would have been posted by the passenger who found the driver’s sensitivity training a little too effective forcing a bothered passenger to instigate the stopping of the bus. Step out of the box! Use your brain! You sound like a broken record!

  137. Oh yeah, you wrote “You don’t have the right to tell the driver what he can or cannot tolerate.” I argue with sensitivity training I can count on a trained employee’s ability to cope better than the employee who has not undergone such training.

    My argument has nothing to do with bleeding hearts and everything to do with the definition of “public service”.

  138. WHIMS!! lmfao. That’s a classroom course – get in the real world. The box you want people to step into is where people get killed. I don’t work for MT, but I have operated a lot of machinery. That makes one of us know what they are talking about. Sensitivity training would not make this situation any safer. There is no in/out of the box here – either the kid shuts up or gets off – continued screaming is not an option. Safety is a broken record. Every day, you do the same things in the same way to ensure the safety of yourself and those around you. You don’t let down your guard at any moment for any reason. You just don’t have the life experience to understand that.

    I guess you can train people to wear headphones and talk on cell phones when they are driving too. Why stop there, let’s have a drink and smoke some crack while operating machinery. This isn’t about ‘public service’, it’s about being safe/not safe in any workplace. The driver did what had to be done to ensure safety. You don’t have the experience to make the correct call. Stepping into your box = injury/death.

  139. Funny how I’ve survived almost 20 years behind the wheel in the charter and tour business and have never, ever taken sensitivity training. Heck it wasn’t even heard of when I first got involved in the industry.

    But I’ve driven groups ranging from drunken university students to bible convention groups, weddings and stags, senior citizen’s bingo trips across the maritimes, VIP trips, military groups, schools and most importantly group home/instutional trips which included numerous busloads of mentally and physically challenged folks.

    Even without such a course under my belt I treat everyone with respect and lay out the rules of the road at the start of the journey before I sit in the seat: No drinking or smoking on the bus (fed & prov. laws), nothing to be placed in the aisle nor any person to be sitting in the aisle (prov. law), no obnoxious conduct will be tolerated so that means nudity, sex in the back seats/lavatory (yes, it happens during night travel) and just plain offensive behaviour, excessive and loud foul language, excessive noise levels and most important, only distract me when driving for important issues. Don’t come up and tell me you think I should be driving faster etc. I signed out the bus and am responsable for it and the 57 people sitting behind me, along with my own life and those around me on the highways.

    Should a passenger or passengers decide to conduct themselves in a manner that is offensive to others and in doing so it makes it impossible for me to safely continue the journey then we’ll be sitting on the side of the highway until the troublemaker(s) decide to get out with or without coaxing from the nearest police department, or that those same people realise their conduct is not going to let the bus move and they smarten up. My ass is covered by labour laws and the motor vehicle and motor carrier acts.

    If you are so loud as to prevent me from concentrating on my driving then its guaranteed you won’t be on my coach very long. The other 56 people aboard are appreciative most of the time, the only whiners are those friends of said troublemakers.

  140. Someone should tell the many corporations relying on my on-site presence that WHIMS training is a joke. Could have saved them some cash.

    “If you are so loud as to prevent me from concentrating”.. how loud is that, exactly? My mother finds even the slightest bit of rock & roll so distracting that she can’t (won’t???) drive until I’ve “shut that crap off”. I think she’d make a poor public service worker and the worst bus driver on the planet. Give her the training, however, and she might be able to pull it off reasonably well (then long live rock n’ roll, yay!) Can I make my point about the training any clearer?

    And for BTP’s benefit who seems to insist I’m young or naive with my opinion, the last time I argued with my mother about the radio station was about 20 years ago.

    My gut still says the driver was barely able to contain himself over the counselor’s lack of control of her charge… poor anger management skills and not-exceptional coping skills, which of course makes it dangerous for him to road rage, I mean, drive the bus.

  141. “”some people take real offense at any confrontation. These people are not suited for front-end service positions.””

    Tell that to the “receptionists” whinging about flirting from delvery men…

    Kay, you’re really hedging your bets on this one, aren’t you?

    First you say “”if the driver find it impossible to do his job when it’s noisy, you’re right, safety comes first and the bus stops.””….and you follow that up with: “”You’re telling me it’s impossible to deal with distraction and drive? “”

    And then mumble some nonsense about “sensitivity training”…(?)

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too, luv…either a blood-curdling screamer is a disruptive and potential danger, or it’s not… (It is)

    Jennie, if you’re not familiar with mentally ill patients becoming chronic and public masturbators (until they have to wear “safety” gloves to prevent damage to the penile tissue), or patients ‘fixated’ on their own feces, to the point of smearing/eating/ throwing it…. all you’ve done is proved that some people “work” with mentally disabled people, without knowing anything about them…

    Good grief. I may have a “small brain” (?), by at least I use it before I post…

  142. Btw, kids, a “micron” is a measure of distance, not time…

    I’ve been expalining THAT to folks now for light-years…

  143. Kay, your WHMIS is a poor substitute for real life experience with dangerous machinery. You can train a person to make this situation safe however. Which is exactly what happened. The driver identified the hazardous situation and corrected it. A textbook example of what safety videos train you. You don’t let stupid emotional responses dictate your actions. There were no anger management issues here. Safety has no emotion. You do what is required to make the workplace safe at ALL COSTS. You don’t, and somebody could get hurt or killed, or you get fired. It’s not a game. Your gut has no place here.

  144. you go ahead and separate time from a measurement of distance and I’ll show you a two dimensional world and a scalar measurement that means nothing out of context… NOT reality… don’t fuck with me, peon. I’m light years ahead of you.

    Review again, smarty pantz, and you’ll see all I’ve done is suggest the training would have led to a different outcome. My “mumbling” provided examples showing different people come by different levels of tolerance for such distraction in different ways and that such tolerance can be LEARNED. Why is that offensive or hard for you to swallow?

    Oh, and my position on whining receptionists was to…
    get this…
    GET A COPING SKILL.

    Time to go thaw somewhere, frosty.

  145. “You don’t let stupid emotional responses dictate your actions”

    You just described sensitivity training. Asshole.

  146. Frosty, you know very well that the patients that you are describing rarely leave the ward.

    I take the #60, so most of this is an everyday occurrence. The drivers are great, and the people understand that tolerance is necessary. There have times that the bus had to pull over and be cleared out, but it is very few compared to the amount of times the bus breaks down. I swear MT gives us the worst bus in the fleet. They must think that we are too distracted by the drama to notice.

  147. Hmm.

    I’m extremely doubtful that tolerance can be learned in one of these fly-by-night seminars that have become so trendy in the “business” world, if that’s what you’re referring to. Yes, you can force reluctant employees to sit in a circle, hats in hand, while some “professional”, armed with pie-charts, a chalk board and a monotone, usually foreign-sounding accent, prattles on about How many here have blue eyes and how many have brown? while she offers donuts to all the participants whose name ends in a vowel and so on and so forth…

    …but in reality, “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks” is a cliché for a reason…

    …and so I fail to see your point -are you suggesting that somehow a professional driver can learn to “tolerate” caterwauling and unpredictable lurching about by the mentally ill, just by being more “sensitive”?

    I may feel empathy for Down’s Syndrome children, for instance, and still not want them grabbing at the controls and shouting about Batman and Wonder Woman while I’m trying to land my Cessna…

  148. frosty… obviously you fail to see my point because you DON`T KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT but yammer on false presumption anyway (insecure teenagers struggling with their own identities do this. It’s okay.) Look it up. Google is your friend.

    “Sensitivity training” is to REDUCE sensitivity, not increase it. “Sensitivity training” allows one to observe human behavior from a clinical standpoint, absent from emotion. Do you really think soldier weathers combat better because sensitivity training makes them soft? Here I thought it was a good example of it’s application. Any good at math? Do some.

  149. Who said anything about a “fly-by-night seminar”? Your presumption is too much. Tone it down and we might end up creating interesting dialogue rather than me resorting to proving you peon, a self-admitted troll’s favorite pastime. Careful.

  151. I wonder if kay or Jennie are willing to have someone in the backseat of their car while driving in the city who at anytime may let out an ear piercing scream?

  152. Maybe so, we shall see…

    But I must return to your premise that the driver would be somehow MORE able to drive with these distractions, armed with more (or less) empathy for the mentally ill passenger…

    Ok Kay…here’s your challenge.
    From your posts you seem like someone who might have, in the past, or currently ridden a motorcycle?

    Your challenge is – we’ll find you a “gentle giant” from the mental ward, harmless, of course….but prone to sudden spastic lurching, violent vocal outbursts and high-pitched bone-chilling screeching at the top of his lungs…and you can let him ride pillion on your bike down the 102, including Dunbrack street on a hot Sunday afternoon…

    …I should add that he is also easily frightened by loud noises, bright colours and other people…

    We know you’re “prepared” by your “sensitivity” training, but we’ll see how you make out anyway, yeah?

    😉

  154. It’s not about empathy. It’s about coping skills. Informally we call it tolerance… and I’m running short of it for this thread, peon.

  156. Maybe “sensitivity training” is the wrong word combo… maybe… help me out here bitches. It’s what they would do to soldiers as a preventative measure against shell shock. It’s along the same lines as the point of live-fire exercises for military. Periods of increased isolation in prepping astronauts for space travel. Heck, we do it to rescue dogs and circus lions to ensure the crowd doesn’t distract them while they “work”. It is “sensitivity training,” right? I might have the term wrong but you catch my drift.

  157. This is not the military. The ultimate question is this. Does sensitivity training enable the driver to shut the kid up? No, the kid is FUCKING AUTISTIC. Therefor, the unsafe condition still exists. The only other option is to remove the safety hazard. That’s it. End of story. Kay, you are so far out of your league with your WHMIS, it’s laughable.

  158. “I may feel empathy for Down’s Syndrome children, for instance, and still not want them grabbing at the controls and shouting about Batman and Wonder Woman while I’m trying to land my Cessna…”

    And with that statement, Frosty crosses the bridge into the land of total dickery.

  159. He tells it like it is. Emotional gibber-gabber and psuedo-scientific ‘sensitivity training’ have no place in the industrial world where people can be injured or killed. The is black and white, safe and unsafe. You idiots would never survive in the working world.

  160. let this be the last post on this volatile subject. some of you are right, some are wrong. there is no easy button here people. give it up and move on. this thread is too messy and tempers are flaring. when that happpens, emotions and anger show in the bitches replies. even i, in my so limited intelligence can see this. so please, no more add ons to this thread.it is pointless now that it has been settled by those in power. and it is over now.

  161. Jennie, you just haven’t been around them long enough…or haven’t been anywhere near the unit for men at the NS.
    I have 2 family members …1 who worked at the NS & also spent a couple of years out at the old hospital on Bisset rd. The other spent 7 years as an orderly at the NS & I’ve seen men pull their dicks out & start jerking right in the hallways, as well as out on the grounds. Pull their pants down & shit right in our driveway when out on a day pass, under supervision, when heading over to a mall for a walk & for ice cream.
    How would you like that in front of your daughter , next time your both on the bus ?
    I am not in any way saying that people with mental handicaps should be shut away.
    How many of you managed to twist my words into that …shows where all your ‘heads’ really are (stuck up your opinionated assholes IMO ) Having a driver operating a bus with the freaking out child, distracting him & all of you coming down on the driver is BULLSHIT !
    THe guy did the right thing. Those guy’s are goddamned if they do, & goddamned if they don’t, no wonder there are so many of them who are standoffish, or down right cranky. How may of you have driven a large bus, 10 ton truck etc ? I have & its a big fuckin’ difference than one of you little 4 cylinder shit mobiles !
    Good on you Metro Transit Driver(s) you should have the right to put anyone you choose off your bus , even if you don’t like the way they smell !

  162. Kay, you were already told to fucking drop it. You don’t know what you are talking about. You can’t train an unsafe situation to be safe. There is safe and unsafe, no in between world. You just don’t have the experience to grasp the situation.

  165. Hey genius, scroll up and read the post by LIFE SUCKS. I believe that individual does call the shots. Or would you and kay like to go 0-2…

  166. BTP… you don’t TELL bitches anything and genius level IQ is not required to swallow that. Why don’t you give it a try? You obviously don’t have the capacity to think for yourself even when new information is provided so back to the pasture with ya, SHEEP. LIFE SUCKS said so, so…

    It’s a wonder a single soldier out there has any brain left returning from combat since the “sensitivity training” I speak of is useless. And why should we bother with such a thing for our interrogators or astronauts? Oh! WHMIS training is also useless. I want my tax dollars back that paid for such training because BTP here knows everything about everything… even the stuff BTP has never heard of before BTP knows everything about… sure. Whatever. Fool.

    Enjoy the box, BTP. It gets smaller and smaller and smaller as you grow old but I’m sure that makes you feel very secure. Never mind REALITY. Just stay in the box.

  167. Wonderful to read that Jennie would simply look the other way if someone starts jerking off on the bus or shits in her driveway. Hopefully the others who witness this would demand the driver put a stop to this on the bus or call the cops for indecent exposure for shitting outside in the open. It might be acceptable behaviour to Jennie but it’s not the least bit acceptable to the rest of us.

  168. HEY VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

    DIDN’T YOU READ LIFE SUCKS’ AND BEAT THE PARENTS’ POSTS???????

    THREAD CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  169. I don’t consider it acceptable behaviour, VOR. Fortunately, I’ve never witnessed it.

    If someone is disabled to the point that they’re defecating in public, I would assume they’re accompanied by a caregiver. So yes, I would look away and let the caregiver deal with the situation.

  170. Nope @ Matthew, didn’t notice but will probably keep posting anyway. BTW your caps key is stuck 🙂

  171. You bring up an interesting issue Jennie – with all the cutbacks to mental health programs there are many, many people out there without caregivers hovering over them. They might get a few hours of help at home from VON type of service but they are on their own for the rest of the day.

    It’ll be the bus drivers (and rest of the passengers) responsability to make it clear to jerk off boy on the bus that pulling his dick on the transit isn’t acceptable and it’ll be up to those witnessing the street shitter to call the cops and have him hauled away. I have no problem demanding a driver or cop do something about this type of behaviour.

  172. Hey Kay, the box is where it’s safe and what keeps our workers and the public safe. You don’t try to negotiate safety – you analyze and act. The only ideas outside the safety box are BAD ideas that cause injury and death. That’s what you are incapable of comprehending, as you’ve done nothing that requires decisive action around dangerous equipment. You can’t even read (ie the post that said drop this). You are a rambling rolodex of bad ideas. You just can’t shut up.

  173. Why can’t you analyze the affects of sensitivity training on front-line staff? That’s one THICK SKULL you carry around.

    Why do you think I/we know nothing of protocols where dangerous equipment is concerned? My associates at Bell Helicopters and Boeing would laugh at the affects presumption is having on you. (presumption is a killer) As would my oil & gas clients out west who require WHMIS training at the very least to even enter their workplace. You’re talking OUT OF YOUR ASS and your ESP SUCKS to knock it off.

    Oh I can read very well. I just don’t do what internet ghosts tell me and neither do you, kettle.

    Why are you so averted to learning? You must be some ancient old dog with a rigid brain unable to COMPREHEND new, relevant information and I feel sorry for you, BTP. I hope I never get so old and so introverted and so inflexible that I might as well be an automaton like you.

    And who the fuck are you to tell me to shut up and actually expect this bitch to comply? Look around! You’re the one who obviously can’t read very well. Check my profile newby then try again, if you dare.

  174. The only folks who need ‘sensitivity” training are often the parents of some extremely unruly children that refuse to admit that their child cannot live a “normal” life, and needs the proper supervision.
    It’s sad, yada yada yada, but sometimes little Johnnny IS the probelm…not his teachers/the police/bus drivers etc etc…

  175. OMG… your so fucked in the head.

    Human beings can’t be trained to ignore offending stimulus but human beings can train dogs and horses and lions to do it. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. That’s a brain inside your skull. Use it!

    I imagine you’re happy to let it drop because to pursue this you’d have to learn something new, admit your ESP sucks exponentially and, worst of all, admit that I’m right.

    For the record, my WHMIS training lasted 40 hours and was put on by a popular college in the region that was also training us lowly carbon-energy techs for Y2K preparedness within crude processing plants.

  176. If you could be trained to ignore offending stimulus, there would be no need for safety training, you could just ignore everything. That would work well. It doesn’t work that way when you are operating machinery. You need to be focused without any distraction that could cause an incident. There is no way around this, unless you replace humans with robots. You don’t have the life experience necessary to understand that.

    I’m sure you are right in your own little box, but out here, you’re just a blathering nobody.

    WHMIS does nothing for you inside most workplaces. If it did, workplaces would not spend millions on their inhouse training to keep people safe. You just don’t understand, because you’ve never been there. WHMIS is there to cover asses, not to save your life.

  177. Again, you don’t have the life experience to correctly decide what another person deems to be unsafe, or even how safety is handled in the workplace. It’s not my fault…

  178. Let’s let people with epilepsy fly planes. This is so horrible, a bus driver needs to HEAR to do his job. This reminds me of a time in junior high when a kid with downs syndrome touched himself, humped the desk and put markers in his nose (we both sat at the back of the class and many students saw it) and we were expected to IGNORE IT. I complained and actually got reprimanded. Our society is ridiculous. Political correctness has gone WAY too far.

  180. BTP, it’s not my fault your ESP is so convincing TO YOU. You know very little of my life experience except for what I’ve revealed here. Contradicting me doesn’t make it so and it’s about as effective as Matthew’s “contribution”.

    Interesting blinders you wear. NOT!

    My mother had wicked tolerance for my whining sister but my father had none and would SNAP if the little shit acted up in the car. I wonder what the difference could have been between them and I wonder if that difference can be made with exposure and training. Hmmm… it’s WAY over BTP’s head so why bother? It’s been explained to this asshat six different ways from Sunday and he’s still ignorant. I give up. And that’s rare.

  181. § 67.109 Neurologic.
    Neurologic standards for a first-class airman medical certificate are:

    (a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:

    (1) Epilepsy;

    (2) A disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause; or

    (3) A transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause.

    (b) No other seizure disorder, disturbance of consciousness, or neurologic condition that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds—

    (1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or

    (2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-…

  182. Why does this have to be such an either/or issue? I am sympathetic to both sides. I would find it difficult to drive just a car, alone, with ear-splitting screams in my ears, let alone a giant bus with many passengers, not wearing seat belts, having to stop constantly and be pulling back out into traffic. Having said that, I think people with challenges deserve accommodation. These accommodations are often easy for the able-bodied and minded to make, yet we huff and puff over the slightest inconvenience. I think it’s sad that the autism group was unable to afford more appropriate transportation, and it speaks to the lack of attention/concern we have to neurological issues as a society, as well as to the costs to the parents in paying for special care for everyday life, let alone field trips. In short I think the bus driver was right to feel distracted, but the people on the field trip have a right to feel wronged. Surely there are better ways to discuss this than either “the bus driver is a monster” or “autistic people should just stay home.”

    Also…”beat the parents?” Really? You created a special screen name just to broadcast that you think autism is the result of bad parenting? And you expect to be taken seriously?

  183. sigh…….

    If you have epilepsy or a history of seizures, whether you can fly a private plane depends on the type of licence you need. To fly with a Restricted National Private Pilot’s Licence (no passengers) you must be seizure-free for one year (or three years if seizures only happen in your sleep). To fly with a National Private Pilot’s Licence (with passengers) you must be seizure-free and off anti-epileptic drugs for 10 years.

    http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_Med-NPPL_…

  184. Kay, what you have revealed here is that your life experience is sorely lacking when it comes to safety in the workplace. That’s all we are discussing, and that’s all there is to it. This isn’t the family car, it’s a big piece of machinery on which the driver has to look out for the well being of many passengers in a large area, not to mention traffic and pick-ups. Apples and oranges scenario with the family car. There is no place for fucking around on the bus – there is training to fix this situation though. Analyze the safety hazard, and eliminate it. Exactly what happened, exactly the way it should happen, exactly the way it has to happen. There is no second option, no outside the box, no exposure training, or any other crackpot idea that solves this. Kid is a distraction, kid will not stop being a distraction, distraction is eliminated by the only means possible. Get off.

  185. Mole rat, fix your eyes. I never said autism was the result of bad parenting. Safety is not an inconvenience either. Another person with no experience operating dangerous machinery.

  187. If you were seizure free and off epileptic drugs for 10 years, you wouldn’t really have epilepsy would you?

    Mole, I agree that more funds need to go to people with neurological disorders and that they deserve to have mobility and participate in society. Its just that its more than an inconvenience when peoples lives are at stake on the road. I wouldn’t feel safe if the person driving me around could not hear correctly and to me he acted according to my expectations. Political correctness ends for me when people are in danger and I don’t think they were wronged they work with potentially volatile persons and need to be prepared for these things to happen. If they cant charter a bus or get a van it doesn’t mean everyone else should be in danger because of it. Its unfair but that’s life.

  189. beat the parents: Right, so it’s just a coincidence that I’ve never seen you post on LTWWB before except on this one thread about a neurological disorder that many believe is the result of bad parenting, and your handle is “beat the parents.” please, forgive me.

    Glassmenagerie, I’m just saying I think the situation could have been handled with more sensitivity and accommodation than just saying “leave the bus – the end.” It’s not as if the kid was choosing to behave in this way. And I am sympathetic, as I said, to the bus driver’s woes. I should’ve been more clear in my wording – when I said the slightest inconvenience, I was thinking about things like making way for a person in a scooter at the supermarket or something.
    Also, I’m not sure what political correctness has to do with it. It’s not “politically correct” to make accommodations for the differently abled. God, I hate that word.
    I don’t have the solution to what should have been done, though. But I wonder if MT could not have gotten some kind of special bus or van together…I mean, someone earlier in the thread mentioned an autistic kid who was obsessed with buses, getting a special bus ride. I don’t think it would be a big deal, I mean, how many autism field trips are there in Halifax in the summer, anyway?

  190. Once again Mole Rat, I never said or implied that autism is the result of bad parenting. Nor would I. You were 100% wrong to jump to this conclusion and you can STFU about it now.

  191. BTP, are you that dense?

    You join the site to comment about kids with the name “beat the parents”. I think we can all figure that out.

    If I join the site with the name “pigs suck” to comment on a thread about police….

  192. Obviously, you can’t figure it out. Once again, I never said or implied that autism is the result of bad parenting. Nor would I. Now you can STFU about it as well seeing that you don’t have a clue. It’s clear who is dense here, and is isn’t me. Nobody is asking what you would do….

  194. I think they need a beating for their fucking whining on TV. Period. Got it oh dense one?

  195. No, I think you’re backpedalling because you didn’t get the response you wanted.

    Excuse us if we’re a little leery of a one-hit wonder like you.

  196. No back-peddling here. Your conclusion doesn’t even make sense. Go back and read all my posts. It’s right in front of you where I’m coming from if you care to read. Back to school for you.

  197. Hm, yeah, sounds like a great use of a Saturday evening. But just for fun, I scrolled up to look for some of your comments. Found one – the one where you called VOR a “stupid bitch.” Classy.

  198. I’m still waiting for kay or jennie to volunteer to take kids driving with them on a busy street and then out of the blue someone let’s out an ear piercing scream. It could happen today tomorrow, next week, and see what their reaction is like.

  199. The day my employer tells me I have to drive a bus with a person sending out ear-piercing screams over and over without any understanding of why it’s dangerous and offensive to both myself, the other passengers and those outside the coach is the day I pull the coach into the nearest police station, truck weight station or right to the offices of the NSURB and demand one of the officials comes out and explain how it’s safe for me to continue.

    While waiting I’ll have also called the provincial and federal workplace safety departments along with Transport Canada safety staff.

    Either my employer will back off the issue and change their policies or I’ll be next in line for a very nice severance package while they try to do damage control when the matter makes it to the media and starts to affect their bottom line. And the bureaucratic nightmare all these agencies will be once they demand accountability for the employer’s actions will be quite interesting.

  200. As I said earlier, Bro Tim, I haven’t commented at all on this bus case. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know just how distracting it was. Maybe the bus driver did the right thing by pulling over. Maybe he completely over-reacted. I don’t know, so I’m not commenting on it. I agree, safety is the main priority. If a situation arises, it should be dealt with accordingly.

    What I have a huge problem with is suggesting mentally disabled people be denied access to businesses or transportation or whatever because they MIGHT become a distraction.

  201. Jennie – to make it clear, my comments were not directed at the disabled who MIGHT become a distraction, they were directed at those who ARE or CAUSE a distraction.

  202. Kay you troglodyte: sensitivity training is not a sound barrier. This is not about drivers having it out for the autistic, its about being able to hear. Being able to hear. I know some people with severe ADD (you)can be oblivious to the sounds in their environment or maybe you drive around with the music blaring to drown out your moronic inner dialogue, but for conscientious drivers being able to hear the sounds of the road and from their vehicle is necessary for safe driving.

  203. Bro.. I know there are a lot of words on the page but a few indicate I’m a parent and no stranger to the shrill potential of upset little people. If I was well rested I dealt with the screamer better than if I were tired and irritable. Funny how that works, huh?

    Some people are cut out for it and have a natural high-tolerance and others aren’t. Still others TRAIN to become proficient at puttin’ up with other people’s shit; a mental health worker, for example.

    VOR, sign up for some sensitivity training then explain why you can’t put up with obnoxious noise for 30 minutes out of an entire shift but, please, do feel free to park the bus while you gain a coping skill.

    glassmenagerie, “troglodyte” Great word! Wow! I haven’t heard that one since Jurassic Park 2 *insert major eye roll* No, sensitivity training is not a sound barrier, just a better coping skill. (the kid had to stop for a breath now and then)

    There are plenty of deaf drivers out there who can show you how to use visual clues for a 30 minute period so a screaming kid is not an automatic removal of a safe commercial driving environment. As many have pointed out, it’s up the driver and the level of coping they WANT to utilize. I have no doubt this driver couldn’t proceed safely. He said as much. I’ve never said that he should have done anything different. I only suggest this training would have changed the nature of this bitch altogether.

  204. If this kid’s screaming was loud enough to be heard 50 feet away, its illegal to drive with him. Period. No amount of “coping skills” (I’m sure Kay ignores her kids so much its second nature) are going to make that safer. Also kudos for referencing a movie where troglodyte was used (who the hell cares) you still are one.

    27007. No driver of a vehicle shall operate, or permit the
    operation of, any sound amplification system which can be heard
    outside the vehicle from 50 or more feet when the vehicle is being
    operated upon a highway, unless that system is being operated to
    request assistance or warn of a hazardous situation.
    This section does not apply to authorized emergency vehicles or
    vehicles operated by gas, electric, communications, or water
    utilities. This section does not apply to the sound systems of
    vehicles used for advertising, or in parades, political or other
    special events, except that the use of sound systems on those
    vehicles may be prohibited by a local authority by ordinance or
    resolution.

  205. Kay – I’ll pull over to the shoulder when my spotless commercial drivers license is put at risk by something in my workplace that impairs my ability to hear and concentrate on the task demanded of me: a safe journey for those behind me and those sharing the roadways.

    I have never, ever met a deaf commercial bus driver and seriously doubt I will in this lifetime as you have to be able to hear whats going on inside and outside of the bus, including passengers and other motorists/pedestrians, changes in engine and road noises that would indicate mechanical troubles, minor and major air leaks that could affect operation of the bus, warning buzzers and bells, the two-way radio or other audio-based communication device, etc etc.

    To be honest Kay, you don’t understand the difference of a person operating a car versus a bus full of paying passengers. The responsability of a driver behind the wheel of a 40+ foot long vehicle is way more than that of a private automobile. Perhaps a good way for you to learn this is to take the 2 week training course offered by Stock Transportation for new school bus drivers then you can come back and try to convince experience commercial drivers that distractions don’t affect your ability to operate the vehicle safely.

  206. Glass……hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Really?

    You pull out the rules about “any sound amplification system” and compare them to an autistic kid?

    Man , bet you’re a Birther as well.

    You better run, Glenn Beck is on.

  207. “Sensitivity training, Sensitivity training! Cluck cluck cluck…”

    Why do you keep banging on about this debatably useless and debunked catagory of programs, lol?
    Are you studying for your licence at community college?

    From Googly –

    “”Sensitivity Training is a form of training that claims to make people more aware of their own prejudices, and more sensitive to others. According to its critics, it involves the use of psychological techniques with groups that its critics claim are often identical to brainwashing tactics. Critics believe these techniques are unethical.””

    Hey Matthew Luthor, nice cut and paste from the first site that came up when you googled “flying with epilepsy”, LMAO..what was it epilepsy.co.uk or some such?

    We’re in Canada, not the UK, mate, and FYI there is no such thing here as a “Restricted National Pilot’s Licence” or whatever the hell it was you quoted in your cut and paste, masking (uncited) as your own info…

    A applicant in Canada for even a private pilot’s licence with epilepsy, defined by recurring seizures, would fail his class three Med. before he even pulled down his trousers and coughed…

    Hilarious…

  208. Vocal cords are a sound amplification system too, dumbass. I didn’t know what a birther was until four minutes ago but nope, Im not one, nor did I know who Glenn beck was until you mentioned it. I bet YOURE a birther. Birther.

  209. Sure thing Frosty, since the post referred to US regulations, I thought I’d return the favour.

  210. And Frosty……

    Your “epilepsy, defined by recurring seizures” is a possible part of, not the definition of the affliction.

    To put in a way you can understand, just like you can have a cold without sneezing, you can have epilepsy without daytime seizures.

    Did you see the pretty blue letters at the bottom of my post?

    That’s called a citation. I realize that not many of your books, except the Choose your Own Adventure ones, have them, so consider it some free education.

    You’re welcome.

  211. I have to agree with DER?. If you know that a child is classically autistic (“is sometimes over-stimulated by loud noises, certain smells and large groups of people.”) why would you bring them on a transit bus in the middle of the city? That’s asking for trouble.

    I have actually experienced a classic Autistic outburst, and let me tell you, it is not even comparable to a crying or tantrum throwing child. The camp should have realized this was a possibility and checked out other modes of transport.

    Hopefully, after this media blitz, a company will offer their private services to the camp for future use, to protect the children from stimuli that can cause such an outburst.

  212. People with problems sure had it better when we kept them all secluded together over in Dartmouth and didn’t let them mingle with us normal folk. Yep.

  213. Matthew, in your haste to fianlly be “right” about something, you’ve really headed out on a limb and started sawing behind you, lol.

    There are many types of epilepy (as outlined on your source), and any form of epilepsy that is defined by unpredictble seizures (AKA as ‘epilepsy, defined by seizures) is a automatic fail for any medical exam, for any licence to fly.

    Full stop.

    The point made by the poster stands. “You wouldn’t let an epileptic be a pilot”
    and that is, in fact, the case.

    and Cranky, rest easy mate…it’s my experience that “people with problems” ARE still pretty well isolated over there in Dartmouth…

  214. “people with problems” ARE still pretty well isolated over there in Dartmouth…”

    But, we’re thinking of moving to Halifax.

  215. There’s more caffeine dealers in Dartmouth!

    I’ve lived (briefly) in both places…I prefer neither…

    I rather live with a fox, in a box, with a cat, in a hat with…

  216. Without getting too much into this debate, I have to add my support to VOR/Frosty/DER?

    If this had been any other kid screaming, everyone would have been happy to see him kicked off and claimed it was a safety issue. People just don’t like doing/saying anything bad about people with disabilities. Guess what most people with disabilities want to be treated like everyone else, otherwise it’s more obvious that they’re different. So if they’re causing a hazardous situation, remove them. And it’s not like they were in the middle of nowhere, they were on SGR, I’m sure they made it home safely.

  218. kay working in a mental institute is a whole different ball game to driving a transit bus. Oh wait, maybe not. When one goes into the mental health field, they know what they are getting into. A person driving a bus (or flying a passenger plane for that matter) is there to get people from point A to point B a safe and timely manner. If a driver (or pilot) cannot do so due to problem passengers then they are required to stop (or in case of a plane, land at the nearest airport) until the problem is dealt with.

    But then kay probably thinks that all cops should be psychiatrists also, along with being mechanics, medics, marriage counsellors, financial counsellors and everything else under the sun so they have complete sensitivity.

  219. DER? I didn’t say WHMIS was hard. I did say it was coupled with Y2K awareness, but I know you can read… well, sorta.

    DER? I never said I had sensitivity training and even asked the bitches to try to be sure this was the right term and provided many examples of what I was talking about. I think I also pointed out I’m not cut out for such work while others are.

    If your place of business is outfitted with a PUBLIC policy to indiscriminately service ALL and go through the other rigors of accommodation (handrails for the disabled, ramps, handi-buses, etc) then, yes, you should expect front line staff to have to (effectively) deal with the public social aspects of their jobs. I suggest they get training.

    So what’s your problem, exactly? Maybe you could ad something to the post this time, eh? Please try again, bitch.

    pffft

  220. agreed… but I couldn’t not respond to such an attack… gotta give the bitches lovin’ when they ask for it.

    Have a nice day.

  225. Thank God we have cameras that record the “goings on” on the bus(with sound) so the truth can be told! The driver did nothing wrong.

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