To the fuck we all call a “highschool art teacher” who wouldn’t let a student express her art in her own way. I hope you read this, and maybe take a little consideration into learning how to actually teach, and not limit your students. you’re a fucking art teacher for fuck sakes, you cannot for the love of pete tell a student they cannot summit a piece of art in an artshow for an exam because of the art’s content. there is no limit to a person/student’s art, even if it is about her little friend maryjane. ESPECIALLY if all that person’s art is all about the herb. I’m sorry to say, but you are a bitch, for not letting her summit her art, when that is all what she had, and had taken time to actually make the pieces of art, and FUCKYOU; if you said there were no limits, and had to have a theme, at least she followed instructions. she better fucking pass art, because at least she tried in your goddamn class.
–maryjane’s wife
This article appears in Jan 21-27, 2010.
Would you think its cool if some kids built a make-shift meth lab as part of a science fair project and called the results “candy”?
what’s gonna happen when they become a starving artist with the munchies eh; then you’ll be wishing you’d submitted that still life eh dumbass:)
Sounds to me like the art teacher doesn’t know squat about art. It’s all about expression I guess, and not allowing said artist in training to express ones self in whatever medium and about whatever the subject he / she wants is ludicrous. That teacher needs to find another job.
It’s spelled “submit”, not “summit”, I can’t believe how many times you made that mistake you fucking idiot
And its in a school show, which probably has a code of ethics that doesn’t allow the promotion of illegal substances.
I’m a pot advocate also, but it has its time and places. Perhaps the teacher does not have authority to allow the particular art piece to be presented.
In university they maybe can but high school is a different story. I know that most youth should be given some leniency and be allowed to express themselves, but they’re not always right just because they’re youth. No rights are being violated here.
Drug and alcohol culture have a time and place and maybe secondary school exhibitions are not one of them.
Yummmmm maryjane !!!!
Geeze does this mean The Louvre and all those other galleries take every piece of art out there? Nope. Schools, galleries, and just about every place else can and do dictate what is and is not allowed on their property.
OB what you may perceive as art, everyone thinks is a piece a shit, elephant or otherwise.
I love mary jane and I love art, but this is a school we’re talking about. Of course the teacher didn’t let them submit it, they’d probably lose their job. Moron.
It might help, if we knew what age this person is? Like what? grade 1 or college level.
BTW, Mary Janes are shoes to me. When did the Raffta weed, change it’s name? Just asking!
HA!
PNB: They said high school art teacher, so the person is (hopefully) between the ages of 15 and 18.
To the OP: You’re not allowed to promote illegal activities in school. Sorry, but your friend is an idiot for thinking it would be accepted and your teacher is in the right. Your friend can do her pot artwork on her own time. I’m sure she can draw pictures of other plants that are just as beautiful.
one would have to be pretty young and inexperienced to fail to realize the glorification of illegal substances or behaviors in a school is not called “art”, it’s called “propaganda”. Glorifying propaganda is inappropriate in a scholastic environment.
Not everybody is a pothead and weed is still illegal. Grow up and play the game by the rules! Your “friend” could have painted a picture of a WWII ship pointing out all the hemp products to make a statement without pissing everybody off with their obvious disdain for the law. And if that wasn’t the objective (to piss people off) then abc here has it right. If you want to be an artist then be an artist. If you want to be a politician graduate and THEN you can publish your controversial interpretations of “art” AND fight for your right to do so in some insignificant art gallery.
Kay..now there’s a post I can absolutely agree with, High Fives to Kay?
High Fives to Der for realizing pragmatism.
… one sheep at a time.
See now there you go being an idiot again…just when we thought you had grown up, disapointing kaytard, disapointing.
You note pragmatisim and yet in that very same sentance show that you don’t even know what pragmatisim means.
You are an ass, High Fives recinded moron.
Two thumbs up for the Kaytard, everyone give her a round of applause for proving she is a small minded simpleton!
One of the things that’s always entertaining about teaching art at the high school level is how there are always the same clichés that come up every year.
There’s always a least one kid into “the dophin and unicorn thing”, another into “the religion thing”, another into “the rasta thing” another into the “fantasy hero thing” another into the “racing car thing” . . . and one kid who will bring in mutlilated barbies to represent the depths of torment in her soul . . . etc., etc., etc. You get the idea. Same stuff every year.
One of the things high school instructors try to do is to get the kids to move beyond copying the ubiquitous pre-manufactured styles they already know, and try to get them to start making things that are based on their own thoughts and experiences.
And while there is lots of time for druggie art when you are an adult . . . sorry but high school teachers aren’t allowed to endorse it . . . no matter how much fun or inspiring it was during the making of the art. (It’s really hard to get the school boards to keep funding the arts in schools, so teachers tend to be particularly vigilant about that kind of thing.)
(No matter how much we might be in sympathy, and in desperate need ourselves of a little something to take the edge off once in a while.)
if it’s considered as sexually explicit, or vulgar, thenm it is not art, it is porn. there has to be a line somewhere,and i guess what you consider art, crossed it. or maybe your crap wasn’t even considered worth a mention or look see. do you also consider the shit they call rap music an art form? if so,then i seriously think you need to step back, and look at your miserable tastes in life choices. we have to much shit, that is considered an art form, that it makes mental patients look good. just saying here.
Yeh I gotta say, even as a “pot advocate”, people doing idiotic things like this is what gives us a bad name… Time and place OP, time and place… Get used to it… I really hope OP is not the parent of said child…
And you can never compliment kays remarks without her ruining it with an idiotic response so just let the ones that make sense slide…
High Five Kaytard , for being a child again !!!
Kay, Kay, Kay.
Will you just LISTEN for one moment?
Do you even GRASP why people get so ticked off with you on here?
It’s not because they “can’t take it.” Everyone comes on here to play around and dish it out and get appropriately flamed if we cross the line. If people found it too offensive, they wouldn’t come back. That’s all part of the fun.
Also, I recall a whole bunch of regulars came to your defense when there was talk of “banning”—no has told you you can’t play here. And I personally don’t like the idea of banning, unless the circumstances are extreme. Almost everyone has agreed with that so far.
And honestly, I enjoy many of your posts, and will say outright when I agree with what you have said—just like I would say when I agree or disagree with anyone else on here.
It’s just that you overdo it when you take the tone from friendly banter, or spirited debate, to your own personal axe-grinding about your unhappiness about being in Nova Scotia. Short of continually expressing our condolences to you, there is nothing any of us can do to remedy your unfortunate situation.
The problem is whether someone agrees or disagrees with you, the responses are almost always one of the following:
“Typical victim!”
“Typical Nova Scotian”
“You are an uneducated rube”
“You are stupid”
“You’re all sheep”
“Get over me!”
etc., etc.
Even when you are COMPLIMENTED for a good comment (ie this morning), you still call the person a SHEEP!
It’s a bitching forum, Kay, and everyone has stuff to get off their chest. But that doesn’t mean that EVERY comment, good or bad, deserves “Oh yeah well you’re just stupid” as the response.
I, and several others on here, have tried many times to engage you when you have made a particularly good point AND STILL we get the same vitriol. If that’s how you want to play, well then you have to expect that people are going to tune you out.
Look. Obviously you are an intelligent person. Counter people’s arguments with something worthwhile, rather than the same old “Sheep” accusations, and then we can have some fun.
I am TRYING to say this to you in a respectful manner. (Even though I am well aware that there is a good chance that I will be called a cunt for even making the effort.)
Good explaination Ruby – But its wasted !!! She’ll have some reason why even your post is an attack on her . I say we just ignore the unhappy Mc Donalds manager and carry on with the other bitchers that don’t take it so hard .I’ll one up that by paying her ticket back home to calgary for her and pay her first months rent on a dump in forestlawn/dover . There’s way more Mc Donalds here and they pay alittle more then NS . Then she might be happy . She needs to return to her own flock of sheep in AB.
RubyJane…you and Miles tie for the best posters, honestly…are you Miles? ; )
I know I bash Kay too much…but in my defence (as you witnessed this morning) I have been posting here for quite a few years and Kay has always responded to my efforts in the same way regardless of what is posted…so after a few months of try nicely to direct her towards constructive posting, I turned into the Kay-hating rotter you see today.
I have learned that if several people keep right on top of her and bash her hard…we get one or two days of decent kay, then she usually reverts.
Today was my fault though…LoGic you are right, I should have let it slide and we would likely still have a day of good posts out of her. Sorry!
LIFE SUCKS -> you once again prove that you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. just because you think something is sexually explicit or offensive does not render it immediately porn and even so, “porn”, vulgar music, vulgar or violent movies and everything in between can still be art.
just because you think that rap music is stupid because “them damned n***** kids” listen to it (or whatever close minded reasons you have.) doesn’t mean that there isn’t a great deal of creativity and poetry to it, and it doesn’t take away from the fact that a lot of rappers are just speaking on real problems with the conditions that a lot of people come up from. just like any type of music, just because you can’t relate to something doesn’t make it invalid.
guy you’re probably like 50 but have the mentality of a small child.
Sorry LS…I tend to agree with Neville on this one (just on the actual point…not on the personal attack), just look at the Mermaid in Copenhagen harbor, major boobie display but it’s still art and it is displayed publicly. For something closer to home…the naked lady statue (if it’s still there…) on the way to the PEI ferry?
I also think the teacher is in the right though…the “Weed Art” falls under propogada under the Board of Education Rules, he may not have wanted to put the kibosh on it but his hands were most likely tied.
does anyone know what that sculpture on university is??? it looks like a penis exploded
Agreed about Miles and Ruby being good posters . Mind you – You yourself have some good posts and make clear points and can debate well. I’ll try to make some paragraphs in my posts in the future to make it less nasty on the eyes , LOL.
I have to admit , that writing isn’t my quality point . I make my living ( a very lucritive one ) Building buildings and obviously not writing , I’d be broke by now if i did !! Although I can speak well . putting it to paper isn’t something I do well . But that hasn’t barred me from making 6 figures in my trades . Ok slightly over $110 000 , don’t wanna look too well off .
AS for bashing Kay I’ll tell you why I don’t like her . I don’t like people that are pretentious and full of shit – yet as you stated in your post – continues to carry on while looking even stupider . I also don’t like people bashing NS . Yea I know we have our problems , but it’s home !!! Sure I had to leave to Calgary to make decent money and loads of continuous work which i can’t always find in NS.Doesn’t make it anyless MY HOME !!! I find people like kay that think they are a know it all – actually know nothing and can certainly prove it !!
Anyways – hows that for abit of better writing? LOL!!!
If there weren’t artists and NSCADDERS who would be my Barista/Tims coffee maker/welfare leech???
does anyone recall that knob (Twink?) who had the ball of concretet that she rolled around as a piece of art? Wonder where she is now?
: D
No worries Hog…regardless of the paragraphs or lack of…I always read what you post, you are who you are and you contribute who can say anything wrong about that?
Plus as well written and spoken (I’m not perfect either, mind you) as I am…you still make WAAAAAAY more money than I do! ; )
Paingirl: Seriously though…what the fuck is that thing?? I grew up around there and every since seeing it as a child; I always thought it was some crazy militant fem art, nothing personal against feminism (BIG UPS TO ALL THE LADIES!)…but you have to admit that’s what it looks like! ; )
On to the original post – I think some posters are right about the school not allowing it because it’s about ganja . They can’t condone it at grade school level . Even if the teacher goes home and lights up the bong – i think they may be right about it not being allowed on the basis it can be construed to be propaganda or promotion of illegal substance .
University or college on the other hand educates adults and therefore i think they can allow that , amoung other forms of “art ” like big breasted statues or some statue with a humungous penis hanging off it .
Thanks Der !!
Art is a waste of time. Focus on sciences. People with arts degrees end up with coffee shop and call centre jobs.
i don’t really think i called all nude things porn. it is up to the eye of the beholder there.i said some things could pass as porn. and as to this shit crap music/noise/garbage, yeah, i can’t fucking stand it. and no, it is not because of that word that you tried to get past andy /whomever. i like what i like, and you do the samme, this is a bitch board, is it not, and that bitch, was part of MY comment. don’t like reading it, bitch back, but do not go trying to put words in my, or others people’s posts. doing that makes you look just like a fool that we know you are. and kay, please listen to what some people say, play nice, and maybe, just maybe, they will too. have at it bitchers.
I got this off dictionary.com in the meaning of porn.
material that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
It’s your own fault if you get horny off the big boobed statue or a big dicked statue . Unless you put them two statues together in a position depicting sexual acts – I suppose it isn’t porn.
Maaaan have you seen the Mermaid of Copenhagen??
She iz H-O-T..dem titties are slammin yo!
; )
they have amazing statues in copenhagen…and other ahem stuff
I think in places like that – they are not so repressed in they’re sexualities and so putting up a sexy statue isn’t a big hang up like it is here !!! I never did see what the big deal is about nudity anyways !!! Maybe I’ll move there and I might get laid more often haha !!!
Ps
Paingirl – I hear you about they’re “stuff” haha
While in Amsterdam…make sure you visit the cafe that looks like a smurf house, they serve a delightful tea. ; )
Europe is very liberated in terms of nudity (as well as many other subjects) just remember they have been at it alot longer and our original founding populations (the colonists not our unfortunate native north americans that got stuck with us) were generally religious misfits (as viewed by mainstream european governments), it’s likely that is where our somewhat puritanical social prudishnes comes from.
I for one am glad of the progress we have made…though we have light years to go, just think Frosty can put a pic of himself on the can (LMAO by the way Frosters), years ago that would have an outrage if “posted” anywhere…now it’s just humorus (for most of us anyway).
i think bmf appears to be studious and introspective sittin on his turlet…maybe deep in thought perhaps just poopin
Being Pro – pot myself – I like how the netherlands treats weed and how they maintain and control it . Just for fun – maybe Canada should too !!! Amsterdam is on my vacation list – if just for the red light district and hash cafes LMAO !!!!
Hey Sebastian and Basil!
Not all art is a waste of time, although I will admit a lot of it is. (There is much of it that is far too boring and self-absorbed. But there is some stuff, everywhere, in all genres, that is absolutley fantastic!)
Without the arts—writing, music, dance, theatre, architecture, furniture, video games, movies, painting, industrial design, clothing design, automotive design, web site design, books, children’s toys—the world would be a dismal and boring place indeed.
Sciences are important, no doubt! We need engineers and doctors and scientists! But we need the arts too. (Although for the life of me I have no idea about that sculpture over at Dal . . . so sorry I can’t help you with that one!)
My whole life is art and design and while I am not rich, I do very well at my work, and have fortunately never had to supplement my income by working in a coffee shop or a call centre.
It’s a great career for the right person, but not everybody is cut out for it. Thousands try, but very few stick with it for the long haul.
Just think—if I was stuck in one of those other high-stress, low-wage jobs, I wouldn’t have nearly the same amount of free time to post in here, now would I?
: )
Have a great weekend everyone.
The exploding penis sculpture at Dal is supposed to be an Inuit mother holding food or something….at least that is what I was told during undergrad.
Food and exploding penis’ together ? ummmmmm…. hummmmmm !!! I’ll leave that one up the creative peoples imagination !!!
Ruby Ruby Ruby, did you actually READ my contribution to this thread BEFORE you went off to write a novel? Do it! You’ll learn why the term sheep is so convenient to describe the people who post here especially newbies who just buy into the “troll effect” without any experience of their own, hence “sheep”. You’re right it’s a bitching forum and I come to bitch, that’s all. That doesn’t mean that no matter what I say bitches ought to slag kay just because… hence, “sheep” and you’re one of them so while you claim to be respectful realize you too sound like a sheep. Go ahead and read from the top and THEN justify your comments!
hog… pffft. McD’s I’m SURE! Even the most obtuse bitches can hit closer than that. “stupider”… “leave(s) to Calgary to make decent money” love that! Keep it up, hog. LOL GREAT entertainment!
You get good posts out of me EVERY day that you don’t all act like a bunch of sheep parroting each other NEVER relating to post or fact, just trolling… this thread is no different. I don’t do the hijacking, you bitches do it and then all the sheep blame me for having the audacity to make a comment in the first place… SHEEP. It’s not me who ruins it. It’s you.
My mistake Kay your not sheep because you aren’t scotian . Being an albertain – should i refer to you as a cow? Just aslking!
Kay, is it possible that many people have independently come to the same conclusions about you? You alienate yourself with your attitude and comments. You have offended everyone on here in one way or another and it’s not always deserved. If you still insist that people are behaving like sheep when the voice their objections to you, just remember that you created the herd, one sheep at a time.
Think about why some of the posters on here still manage to get along with each other despite disagreements and exchanged insults and YOU are the only one virtually everyone has long-lasting problems with.
Speaking of learning the rules, Kay- another C-word! My goodness. Perhaps someday you’ll learn.
hog, call me bitch. Enough said.
Miles, you too ought to read from the top and see uncalled for “vitriol” (I can’t believe I just used that word) like I do every time I dare to post anything at all. I’ve played puppet a few times (no I’m not Desi or Balls) and I’m the very same person with the very same opinions and English prowess posting here today. Just because the big red kay doesn’t sit next to my name the bitches simply contribute as bitches should. If that’s not evidence of SHEEP mentality then you tell me what is.
heres a Kay plan . Lets just not even mention or reply to any comments she posts and she’ll get tired of being the star !!! That will piss her off even more . No response =no Kay!!!
I AM tired of being the “star” hence comments like “get a new hobby”, “get over me”… you’re awfully quick today hog.
Yes, actually, I DID read your post, and I LIKED it. I AGREE that art should be more than propaganda. (I too shake my head that the usual “dope art” that some people think is highly original . . . I see it all the time!)
It’s just even when I agree, or try to support an idea you have advanced, I STILL get called a victim . . . or a sheep . . . or a typical Nova Scotian . . . or just told to fuck off.
I ALSO liked DER? ‘s posts (and others), and I was glad to see some AGREEMENT on here on this topic (which I actually think is quite funny) . . . and then 5 minutes later we were right back to the old “sheep” stuff . . . after he COMPLIMENTED you.
Sooo . . . could we at least give the “sheep” stuff a rest? Sheep put me to sleep.
Tell me if I get the Chronology wrong here:
Kay: “Something useful”
Der?: “I agree.”
Kay:”One sheep at a time”
Der and others: “There you go again”
The problem, on this tread, was you. Der didn’t attack you, he gave you kudos, and you pulled your cocky “Finally you sheep realize that I’m smarter than you” bit.
If you don’t want to be the star anymore, then ignore the insults. Let the others rag on you all they want, just ignore it. A 4 post anti-kay rant ends up becoming a 40 post anti-kay rant because you keep adding fuel to the fire.
Ruby and Miles . Why waste you time? Really lets stick with our relevant to subject posts . You guys post awesome comments and are way to intelligent to fall into the Kay game . I sworn it off and won’t comment further to the stupidity of Kay . Why bother – guy (der?) compliments her and look what he gets !! Really – lets pretend the Kay isn’t relevant (which she isn’t ) and then we won’t fall under her game of poor me !!!
“way to intelligent” LOL LOVE IT!
“poor me”… I told you all to fuck off. “poor me” pffft whatever! You just hate it when I stoop to your level and I can’t say I blame ya because it’s annoying.
Miles, I’ve done MORE than my share of ignoring foolishness. Just because I play the bitch game once in a while myBad… geeez!
Ask any bitch here. Agreeing with me is NOT a compliment, just common sense 😛
I normally don’t bother Hog. It’s just those sheep comments she keeps throwing around that have been bugging me…and lately that “one sheep at a time” thing when anyone agrees with her was driving me nuts. I had to bitch about it.
You stupid, narcissistic twat. Someday, you’ll mouth off at the wrong person…I’d love to see it.
Having said that, I’m with you Hog. Ignore every idiot comment she makes, and perhaps she’ll go away.
sure and before that it was “just” her position on legalized prostitution. And before that it was “just” her position on the gay lifestyle. Precisely twice I’ve used the “one sheep at a time” phrasing. You’ll get over it, Miles. Just settle down and hold your ground. We wouldn’t want to think of you as one who “just” goes with the crowd.
Yea true miles . But save your post for something better !!! You know wheres it’s coming from – an albertain in NS . It is annoying – but I’m looking at it from the perspective of just another idiot not worth my spit . I do like your post thou miles , least we know who the smarter people are !!!
Yep lehova no audience no star brother !!!
“thou miles, least we know who the smarter people are” LOL very very funny.
ILTWWB, keep it comin’!
I think our energy is better spent discussing more interesting topics Kay. Sorry if I flipped out a bit at you there. It’s just that I find the sheep comments to be condescending and that is a bit of a button for me (remember the Homie?). Hope you have a good weekend.
miles, you’re such a gentleman. Thank you. You too have a wonderful weekend.
RubyJane: Don’t worry about it, it’s plainly obvious that her persistence is willfull ignorance to reality or her own failings “It’s not me, it’s the rest of the World”.
Everyone notice she posted 3 times in under 15 minutes? Desperate for attention!!!
Being present and being desperate are not the same thing, DER. And I’d have a hard time hijacking with just my own comments so where ya goin’ with this? It’s not like I’m stupid bitch cunt at the top every thread, just at the bottom of the hijacked ones. LOL
art for arts sake ; money for gods sake: 10cc
ANYWAY,
OP, did your friend really create images of an illegal substance and expect to be able to show it in a public high school? If your friend was smart and serious about getting her message across she wouldn’t have just produced some pictures of weed, she would have drawn from the many intelligent legalization of cannabis arguments out there to produce some more intelligent less conspicuous pro cannabis art. Not just “LOOK WEED! WEED IS AWESOME! LOL!” art.
“It’s not like I’m stupid bitch cunt at the top every thread, just at the bottom of the hijacked ones”
Sometimes you make even less sense than normal.
“”OP, did your friend really create images of an illegal substance and expect to be able to show it in a public high school?”‘
Why not? At first I thought that the display contained actual pot, which sadly cannot be done, even for Trailer Park Boys movies…but is it just depictions of pot?!
What’s the problem with that? And who says “art” cannot contain depictions of illegality? What if I painted a disturbing picture of a woman being killed in Darfour, is that banned too? Am I promoting “rape”? I think mutilated Barbies® sound ten times worse that pot, but that’s OK?
We don’t even know (and will never) what the art WAS…someone assumed it was “glorifying” pot, who says? Assumption. Is a painting of Jesus on the cross “glorifying” crucifiction? Glorifying God?
And who fucking cares if it’s in high school, if not then, when? You think your poor little dears don’t know what pot is? Why do we continue to treat young people based on OUR experiences growing up? It’s like “fighting the last war”…
I think if a grade 10-11 student is old enough to get behind the wheel of 2 tons of metal, and a grade 12 is old enough to don a rifle and go die in our stupid fucking wars…they can handle a thorny crown of cannabis placed on a dying Jesus
You know, you can’t “create” a true artist in an art class at high school, that’s for sure…but it seems you sure can dampen the fire with this type of censorship…and feed the fire of anti-establishmentism that most artists share…so I suppose it’s a good thing…
Frosters, the reason it was prevented was because it was “drug culture” art in school…the whole no tolerance thing keeps teachers on a pretty short leash. Had it been at a university level it likely would have been allowed, but as long as irrationally scared parents control the politics of the Board of Education, younger students will be relegated to more mainstream efforts.
I only mentioned the whole “mutilated barbies” thing because it’s a tired cliché that certain students think is highly original (just like the unicorns and dolphins) and it usually shows up every year.
It’s not a matter that it (or drugs as a subject matter) is “bad”—it’s just that some kids don’t realize that they aren’t the first to think of it.
I had hoped that the way I added “representing the depth of torment in her soul” would have conveyed the appropriate amount of cliché-ness so people would see why art teachers try to move students beyond this old 60s and 70s stuff.
As an adult, I can admit that some amazing art and music (and a lot of boring repetitve crap) HAS been made under the influence of drugs and alcohol—but in high school this has to be approached in a very careful context. High school teachers are not allowed to endorse drugs as a path to creativity.
In addition, keep in mind that it has been over 40 years since the psychedelic era—there is not a whole lot of “druggie art” territory left unexplored.
I have yet to see anything drug-related produced by a high school student that doesn’t look like a recycling of something their grandparents generation did. Better.
And I don’t see much originality in college-level students (esp. first years) when they try the same stunts either, in case you were wondering. There are other creative strategies that a genuine talent can rely on to produce much more interesting results.
I remember art class in high school, the teacher was a bucking fitch !
if you weren’t one of her pets…you were basicly wasting your time.
On an abstract project which allowed anything (supposedly ) some were doing sculpture, others drawing painting…one girl did this cool mobile. Me I found a childs training pot, took apart an old fur coat ( it was a deep brown color) & I lined the pot with reflective foil & seat with the fur , made it so it would hang on the wall & labeled it …Comfort.
I got a zero. I can still remember stuff made of paper mache that looked like wet goopy paper mache with dribbles of color & it got high marks & my (IMO) very comfortable looking shitter got a zero !
I can’t remember that old bitches name,
For any of you older folks (late 40’s) out there, she taught at DHS, & constantly held her nose in the air & spoke of being trained by Alex Colville… I hate it when I can’t remember names .
How can you curse someone effectively when you can’t remember their damn name ????
“”it’s just that some kids don’t realize that they aren’t the first to think of it.
“‘
Indeed, there is nothing new under the sun…
“”so people would see why art teachers try to move students beyond this old 60s and 70s stuff.””
How very condenscending. IMHO, too much “Moving beyond” leads to “art” being pickled cows in formeldihyde…
I don’t think that’s condescending BMF. “Move beyond” I think was meant to imply “come up with something original”. That doesn’t have to translate into pickled cows or other weird shit or imply that there’s anything inferior to the 60’s and 70’s shit. It’s just been done. A big part of art is the creative aspect and it should be something that changes and evolves as it matures. I think Ruby was just pointing out that teens and young adults ‘discover’ the culture of the generation before them and think that they have discovered something new (like skateboarding or Frisbee or smoking weed or the Beatles) just because all their friends are still paying attention to the pop culture of THEIR generation. Now, maybe some of these kids will be able to reinterpret the 60’s and 70’s through a 21st century lens and come up with something truly mind-blowing that pot heads from the 60’s and the 2000’s will really enjoy. But most will probably just replace the maple leaf on our flag with a hemp leaf and think they have done something original and thought provoking.
i still don’t get that weird ass dali shiti think he must of been influenced by some kind mood altering substance
Hey BMF,
Didn’t mean to be condescending at all. I don’t believe condescension has any place in teaching anyone anything.
Think of it this way. When you sign up for a course, the intention is for the students to learn something new. In that regard, art class is no different from English class or Science class. If it was just free time to do what you wanted, or if you weren’t being challenged to move beyond what you already know, there wouldn’t really be much point in taking the course—you would already know everything.
I hate it when kids have a wonderful opportunity ruined by a lousy teacher. I am sure that everyone has memories like that, and a subject that they absolutely can’t stand because some awful teacher made it a miserable experience. So, you will never find me supporting bad teaching—of any subject!
Something to keep in mind about high school art classes is that they are just that—high school. Just like there are few great novels being written in high school English class, and few diseases being cured in high school science class, high school art class is about learning the basics of art history, technique and creative thinking.
Since I have not seen the artwork the OP is talking about, we have no way of knowing whether the piece was utterly brilliant or not. If it WAS indeed brilliant, and the student was truly snubbed, they will soon be moving on to more brilliance in their art career, and the big bad closed minded high school teacher will soon be just an amusing story from the past.
Based on what I have seen in the past, however, I am guessing the piece was mediocre at best, and the student most likely did some kind of variation of the old “Floating Cannabis Leaves Around The Words “Stairway to Heaven”—based on their uncle’s old T-shirt from the 70s . . .
I know I am just making a guess, but please trust me that there is a good chance my guess is close to the mark. When you see enough low-effort “projects” that look like this . . .
http://nothired.com/category/total-freaksh…
(scroll down until you get to “A Fresh New Design Sensibility”)
. . . you tend to be a little skeptical about the “originality” of certain kinds of “drug art.”
Very funny link, RubyJane. It kept us hilariously, entertained for hours.
“”Think of it this way. When you sign up for a course, the intention is for the students to learn something new. In that regard, art class is no different from English class or Science class.”‘
You are absolutely correct. But it’s the STUDENT who is here to learn something new, not the teacher. YOU may have “seen it all before”, and YOUR sensibilities may be offended by seeing it again, but we’re not here for you, are we? 😉
Think of it THIS way. When we teach science , we don’t dive right into string theory and dark matter right off before we’ve all had a chance to draw a nice cell diagram and germinate some pea seeds, do we? High school English students are not here to create a new language, they’re here to try and effectively use the one they already have. Using little or no punctuation may have won the Pulitzer for Frank McCourt, but it’ll get you an F in Mrs. McGullicuddy’s Grade 11 English class.
And if I teach you keyboards, you’re gonna learn Let it Be on the pianner before you try to master Long Time Foreplay on the Hammond…
And I think that this is an important point. It seems more and more with art (and orchestral “classical” music composing), there is sometimes too much of an emphasis on being “new and original” and I think this often is the fault of the schools, sorry. I think more art students should learn the basics of the trade first…how to draw, how to paint, light, shadow, mood, anger, pathos, and so on… before descending into the chaos of “modern art”…
A good example is the almost un-listenable “new” orchestral compositions we hear late at night on FM. In an unquenchable desire to do something “for the first time” musicians use dischordance, disjointed rhythms, wacky atonal chords and the result is too-often mere cacophony…but it IS original, for what that’s worth to the listener.
Imagine me, as a music teacher, saying to my student…”Don’t use the piano or the violin…that’s all been done before..it’s derivitive! I want you to compose using only a rubber car horn, some dropped cutlery and this old whoopee cushion…” That’s an EXACT analogy to you saying that “pot’s been used before, blah blad blah, so you shouldn’t use it.”
No, high school seems more like the time to learn the foundations…and also to be free to make mistakes and use poor judgement even, without some wacky old spinster in a moo-moo poo-pooing your collage of tampons, or your voo-doo Harper Doll with a fatty up its arse.
I want to see that you’ve learned some skills and maybe even paid some dues before I will accept your “turd in a chip bowl” as art.
I’m sorry to hear that some folks, like Miles and RubyJane, are using this excuse of “it’s all been done before” to justify the teacher in stifling the expression of those who want to involve “drug culture” in their art…something that is clearly meaningful to the young artist, if not so much to the older and clearly jaded teacher. Clearly the agenda here is anti-marihuana, disguised with the thin false moustache of “originality”, so let’s be honest and stop pretending shall we?
I wonder if this right-wing conservative sounding bias against so-called “drug culture” would extend to a student of American history that chose to break away from the cheesy paper maché diaspora of the smiling founding fathers, and instead wrote a treatise on the still-common use of peyote, mescaline and marihuana in sacred rituals that date back for thousands of years? Who would be accused of not being “original” then, I wonder?
Or would you then be forced to confess your bias?
You may be right, “pot-based” art may have been something that YOU have seen thousand times, perhaps one of your peers has even made a website to snigger at the “derivative” work of young impressionable students…good for you, enjoy….how clever of them.
Perhaps the OP’s art WAS just another pot leaf on a flag, or a crown of purple bud on Jesus, all grapes and bloody…but I guess now we’ll never know, thanks to 1950’s style censorship. Kinda sad, really.
😉
Who has ever seen a fur covered toilet seat before ?
I thought it was original :'(
First of all…I’m not using “it’s been done before” to justify censorship. My reply was only to point out why I didn’t think Ruby wasn’t being condescending. It’s one thing to teach and get students to practice 60’s and 70’s art styles as a fundamental, it’s another thing to have the student “discover” the genre for themselves and think it’s original.
With respect to the OP, DER? is probably right in saying that the teacher’s hands are probably tied by the school board or other administrators who would not allow “drug culture” to be displayed in a high school art show. I’m not convinced that putting restrictions on the subject matter they consider appropriate for a high school art show should be considered censorship…at least not in the “oh no, we’re stifling the creativity of young artists” way it’s being used in this thread.
The fact that the teacher said they could do whatever they want, rather than assigning a specific theme, suggests that the teacher is NOT interested in stifling creativity. I am sure the young artist in the bitch is aware of the school’s drug policy and probably should have run her ideas past the teacher before she spent all her time completing and assignment that wouldn’t be evaluated. As far as worrying about stifling the creativity of our budding young artists, I don’t think that in this day and age with facebook, myspace, youtube and all the other social media that we need to worry about artists being able to make their work accessible to the public.
Ew…it would make your toilet look like a giant animal’s asshole.
read my previous post…. I thought it looked different with the colored reflective foil inside the pot, & with the comfy fur seating area….I thought i had something pretty original.
Oh sorry….I read that last night and only really absorbed your dislike for your teacher. So, yeah, the visual I get is animal’s asshole…however, I can honestly say I have never seen such a thing in my life. Truly original.
Fair enough, BMF—I think that “originality” does get into REALLY tricky territory, both in art and music. A good teacher, of any subject, would try to navigate this kind of thing with some finesse, I would hope.
If you have worked with beginning music students, you must surely have seen something that parallels this. (Maybe not? I don’t know.)
Let’s say I show up for basic music lessons. I would expect the teacher would introduce maybe a few scales, some technique, and a beginner-level piece to practice—stuff that has very little to do with “MY” personal creativity, but is intended to build skills so that someday I CAN express myself creatively. I would also hope you would point out where I was going astray, so that I could make improvements.
But if I showed up, and each time you tried to explain these things, I replied with “I don’t want to learn that, all I want to do is smash my instruments around like The Who did” or “All I want to do is pound the piano with my shoe like Jerry Lee Lewis did” you might say “Well you can do that at home, but in this lesson I think we should try THIS . . .”
I bet you’d be more than a little horrified if I suddenly accused you of “censoring my creativity” or saying “You don’t know anything about music after the 1800s! There’s more to music than just scales, blah, blah, blah . . .” I am betting at that point I might be asked to leave? Just a guess!
: )
(That’s just a dramatization. For your sake, I hope people don’t really ever behave that way at lessons!)
Most people in the arts tend to be MORE in favour of personal freedom and expression than the mainstream. It’s just that the high school milieu includes such a broad spectrum of interests, abilities, motivations, attitudes etc. Plus, there is just no getting around the fact that the students are under-age, and that “the rules” are all set by the parents, the public, and elected officials.
And most teachers I know are not the creaky uptight old spinsters of the 1950s. Most people teaching now would have gone to University in the 80s, 90s or 00s, and would have been around—REALLY BEEN AROUND! before starting to teach school. They are not as naive as you might think when it comes to art, politics, drug culture, pop culture, modern music etc.
Some students, and their parents, even wish that instead of a teacher giving constructive feedback they should jsut have a tape-recording that just repeats “That’s Great! That’s Great! That’s Great!” over and over, no matter what they do, or even if they do nothing at all, or even if they don’t even show up. (Think of the money that could be saved on salaries!)
When I re-read the OP’s post, I get a sense that either the poster or the student thought that in an art exhibition, every single item should have automatically be classed as “Brilliant A-Plus Work”—regardless of the thought or effort put in. (Not very fair to the other students, in my opinion.)
I suspect this was really less of a case of censorship and more a case of a student trying to hand in a lame piece or half-assed effort.
Traditional right-wing drug “policy” has been a failure ABSOLUTELY—you’ll get no argument from me on that.
But you only have to teach a few classes before you get wise to the typical high school (and college!) student games. I know it may appear that I am “biased” especially because I have not seen the artwork in question. My “best educated guess” however, makes me not want to side with the student in this case.
“”it’s another thing to have the student “discover” the genre for themselves and think it’s original. “‘
?
Where’s your evidence that this is the case anyway? The OP simply wanted to somehow use depictions of pot in their project, and you’ve turned into one the old guys in the balcony from the Muppet Show that doesn’t think “young folk” have been capable of an original thought since “he” was young, lol…
“” I’m not convinced that putting restrictions on the subject matter they consider appropriate for a high school art show should be considered censorship””
Of course it is, by the very definition, what are you talking about Miles? Now if you want to argue that high schools have the right to censor their students, fine…that’s another issue. Perhaps they do. After all, freedom of expression is only one of the “rights” one loses in our schools…again, a different matter.
“”the teacher said they could do whatever they want,””
Exactly.
😉
More -maybe your teacher thought you were calling her a shithead. lol “reflective foil”, “hung on the wall”. I kept thinking mirror, ok, then the fur, interesting, but then you hung it on the wall.lol. Now your looking into a toilet on the wall and seeing yourself, surrounded by brown fur. Looks like a shithead to me.
On to the talk about boobs, anyone see the new building on charles st by smiths bakery? It looks like 2 big boobs on top (boobie building) complete with dark nipples. I wonder how it looks from a plane. Even the snow enhanced it cause now its lactating.
quote 1 “it’s another thing”: That comment, as I stated earlier in that paragraph, is not related to the OP. I haven’t seen the OP’s work so I’m not trying to comment on how “original” it is or not.
quote 2 “I’m not convinced”: In the second half of that quote I qualify what I mean by “censorship”. You managed to figure out what I was talking about. I think schools have a right to decide what is appropriate content for a student art display. Sure it’s censorship…but it’s not always a dirty word.
quote 3 “the teacher said”: Exactly. Does “do whatever you want” sound like a teacher interested in stifling creativity?
“‘I suspect this was really less of a case of censorship and more a case of a student trying to hand in a lame piece or half-assed effort.”‘
We’ll never know, but that seems to me like a huge assumption to make here.
(1) “”Let’s say I show up for basic music lessons. I would expect the teacher would introduce maybe a few scales, some technique, and a beginner-level piece to practice—stuff that has very little to do with “MY” personal creativity, but is intended to build skills so that someday I CAN express myself creatively.”‘
Erm, I think that’s pretty well what I just wrote two hours ago, innit? The difference is that I wouldn’t be afraid to stop the student from smashing my piano because I DON’T WANT HIM TO. I wouldn’t feel the need to hide that under “it’s all been done before, so do something else!”. If the student WAS NOT “free to do whatever they wanted” then the teacher should have placed those rules out first.
I dunno, it’s been decades since I suffered through high school…what else should the student “have known”, as Miles implies, was taboo? Abortion? Sex? Gay Sex? War? Guns? Violence? Politics? Bazookas are illegal in Canada too…can I not paint a landscape of the Gaza Strip? How about Jesus lying down with Mary Magdelen? How about with Peter? Does my sketch of a slain Israeli “promote” terrorism?
You know, I have an idea…let’s just get our poor little innocent 16-18 year olds to hollow out some eggs and paint ’em with bright colours…how’s that sound?
One more question Ruby – how then do you reconcile what you’ve written in the above quote (1), with THIS statement (2) that you made earlier:
(2) “”One of the things high school instructors try to do is to get the kids to move beyond copying the ubiquitous pre-manufactured styles they already know, and try to get them to start making things that are based on their own thoughts and experiences.””
Uh huh. Which is it then, learn the basics, or “move away” from them…?
While I agree with much of what you’ve written, I fail to see how the conversation has changed from the OP being forbidden to use ‘evil pot” in a project, to one about “originality” which both you and Miles have seemed to steer it towards.
Where does the OP say they think they are the first one to try and ‘shock” with a depiction of drugs? Nowhere, that’s where. You too have read wayyy too much into it, and are allowing your own bias against ‘those crazy kids that think they’re onto something new, but they’re not!!” shine through, IMO.
And, again, it is IMHO ‘condenscending’ to presume that someone’s art project is going to be un-original just because it uses a medium that’s been used before. Do you think the 60’s kids were the first ones to smoke pot? Should I avoid the piano in my writing?
I’m beginning to understand why most of my favorite artists dropped out after a few months…
“High school English students are not here to create a new language, they’re here to try and effectively use the one they already have.”
Frosty…have you heard High Schoolers lately? I don’t understand a fucking thing they are saying, effective use of the english language seems to have been hijacked.
; )
: D
“what else should the student “have known”, as Miles implies, was taboo?”
I think common sense should serve as a guide. Most people should have a pretty good idea of what is reasonable subject matter and content for a high school art project.
Also, I don’t think the “originality” comments were meant to be applied to the OP. Ruby was just changing the subject when she shared about her experiences with art students.
Hi BMF,
I do agree with a lot of what you are saying. I am perhaps jumping to conclusions about the art piece in question, when, in fairness I have not seen it.
But I am also still not ready to side with the student yet for two reasons: the tone of the original post, sounding quite uninformed and a bit “exaggerated” in terms of the level of outrage, and my (admitted) generalizations from seeing this kind of thing all the time. (Several time this past week, in fact.)
The other thing too is that most teachers I know these days aren’t big bad nazis out to destroy kids. Most of the ones I know really do care about kids, they really want them to develop their skills, and they really do try to give advice that will be true and useful in their adult life. (Teachers are not allowed to just pretend that everything about drug use is fine and dandy.)
For example, in another subject, a teacher might say “It is important that a resumé shouldn’t have any typos—let’s fix a few things here.” They don’t just say the opposite (“Oh, sure, it’s all perfect, whatever you’ve done is great!”) and then secretly go “Heh heh heh! I really screwed that up for him! Now he’ll NEVER get that job! Buwahahahahah!!!”
To let a student know that not everything and anything he does will be accepted automatically—in any context—would be very misleading, and potentially exposing him or her to ridicule. Public criticism can be very cruel. In the high school setting, teachers do have a responsibility not to “throw students to the wolves.” Once he/she is over the age of 18, they can write, perform, exhibit anything the want, as long as they can find a venue willing to host or produce the work.
One other thing: I guess I should have clarified in relation to the “basic skills” topic, I should have written “build on” or “expand on” rather than “move away from” as I realize that was rather unclear. These things are typed on the fly, as I am sure you know! I will edit better next time!
So, are you really offering keyboard lessons?
Baaah, “Kay-If that’s not evidence of SHEEP mentality then you tell me what is.” well evidence and proof, are different. Proof would be telling us what other handle you have, so we than judge this “sheep mentality.” Without knowing it and believing you would make us sheep. Have I said enough?
http://news.globaltv.com/entertainment/Bib…