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TODAY: When I walked down the street past a group of 4 men, they sized me up and down and then told me I looked good in my pants. I felt intimidated, embarrassed and angry that I couldn’t just walk down the street peacefully –without any anxiety. When I got to work –(I’m a waitress)—I had one table of two men who told me they liked me because I was “gorgeous”—asked my name, where I’m from, if I’m single. I just wanted to do my job and not be on public display to be commented on and asked intrusive questions. Later a Man I waited on grabbed my arm and started to brush his hand along my wrists and elbow. I told him, “I didn’t give you permission to touch me”—his other friend grabbed my hand and kissed it and told me not to take things so seriously. I felt violated and gas lighted and powerless to state boundaries. When I got home I told my boyfriend about what was happening at Dalhousie with the Dentist Facebook page—and how I thought these men should be suspended from school for their violent hate speech about their female class mates. He said “Do you really think it’s hate speech?”—I responded—“If it were about race—and these were violent and demeaning comments about black students—would you think its hate speech then?”, he said “I guess I would.” Why is gender, misogyny and sexual violence viewed as Oppression *light*–? So this was just one day—out of about 20 years of days like this. And I got to thinking that the fact that I have to argue and explain to my male friends and peers—to PROVE—that this 1. Happens, 2. Hurts and diminishes my quality of life and 3. Is Unjust—reflects how embedded sexism and gendered violence are in our culture—and it makes me so very tired and disheartened. It’s real. Just because I have legal rights to political and economic equality with Men doesn’t mean I live in a culture where I have the same respect and privilege as men. Don’t ask me to prove it. I live it. —Andromeda
This article appears in Dec 25-31, 2014.
That’s it. It’s time for men to commit mass suicide. Maybe that’ll make you happy.
^
No that’s not it. Fortunately the above comments are not representative of all men. Most men do not have to experience the things that you do, so unfortunately you may have to keep explaining how you experience your life in order to get your point across. Even then only a few of us will get it.
Oh shit. The rest of my comment didn’t post. It was supposed to say “BroTim is human garbage.”
LEAVE SPRYFIELD NOW
“Why is (sic) gender, misogyny and sexual violence viewed as Opression *light* – ?” Andromeda
Gender, misogyny and sexual violence are viewed as oppression light because they all flourish in Spryfield. It’s a class thing. Leave Spryfield now.
Avatar #114. “Deutsche Infanterie”
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
That’s an awful lot of sexual harassment to experience; and in just one day, you say?! Absolutely shocking and completely unacceptable. I cannot understand how seven men under three different circumstances could even do that! This type of thing has to stop!!!
You know what? I’m torn on this issue…
First let me start by saying that, I, in no way believe the behavior you describe is in any way acceptable and should not be tolerated by anyone, anywhere, anytime. Period!! Unfortunately, the world is full of inappropriate douchebags. There is only one reason for this, because there are women out there that empower them, by fucking them. I know this sounds harsh but…
In my opinion, the idea of “equality” in society is some Utopian view that is impossible to achieve. Equality is a state of mind, an established compromise between two dominant personalities. The idea of legislated equality under the eyes of the law is a good one, it protects everyone’s rights, but is impossible to enforce on an individual, day to day, level.
In the situations like you have described, you owe it to yourself to not be intimidated or belittled by other peoples inappropriate behavior. Assert yourself as the dominant member of society you are, don’t become the victim. They only way you become a victim is to give your power away by regretting how you handled the situation. Confident, empowered women don’t become victims in mundane, everyday situations.
The Dal idiot boys club …was this not a ‘private club’ ?
A place where like minded idiots could speak out on topics, fantasies they could possibly be called. So while I agree if these guys were actually acting on these stupid hurtful …& in many cases extremely disrespectful comments , I could better understand why so many of you want them castrated …. Yet I can’t help but wonder ,if there was a ‘club mentality’ of stupid 1 upmanship & it was supposedly a private club. & … There was no actual act of depravity committed by any of the members. I really find the constant attempts to see them punished as if they really committed a criminal action to be anything more than a witch hunt (can I say that …or am I being sexist as well, perhaps a whipping & hot irons applied to the soles of my feet can get me a pardon from this heinous crime I just committed
)
As for you OB, why not ask one of the muslim woman of halifax where you can get a burka, because in 50+ years in this area I have never seen anything more than a wolf whistle or an inappropriate comment by usually a juvenile & have yet to see a woman manhandled at a bar….but then again I rarely ever go into a bar. But I do go to restaurants & have never seen it happen there. I guess I need to pay more attention , while being careful not to look at the waitresses at the same time. Wouldn’t want to be accused of oggeling the young/mature/old waitresses !
^^^Spoken like a man.^^^
A man who just doesn’t get it.
It is not the first time as evidenced by previous “more” comments.
we’re not misandrists timothy, but in your case i’m a misanthrope
That’s why we call him ‘more-on,’ Oceanchick.
spoken like a typical woman ocean.
Perhaps you should, (if its possible) consider what the lack of ‘freedom of expression’ would mean. To start with your last comment would definitely be problematic.
Your comment was more than just a put down to me, but to all men in general !
But if you would bother to look at some of the supreme court rulings on hate speech vs freedom of expression.
You might come across things like this when courts,tribunals etc. are looking at hate speech to see if its actually a crime
“…must focus their analysis on the effect of the expression(s) at issue, namely whether it is likely to expose the targeted person or group to hatred by others.The repugnancy of ideas being expressed , is not sufficient to justify restricting the expression.”
Are you capable of grasping that concept ?
Just because you hate what someone else has said, doesn’t mean they should be subject to punishment, just cause your feelings have been hurt. Free speech is,In My Opinion way more important than whether what is said pisses you or I off.
Have a happy new year
we’re not misandrists timothy, but in your case i’m a misanthrope
burp
Op is spot on. There are tons of creeps out there. Imagine sitting harbourside on a lovely fall day enjoying the afternoon sun and being approached by a perv offering money for sex with his pathetic self. Said perv got pelted with pebbles and screamed at to expose him loudly for the scum he is. The slimeball slithered away with its tail between its miserable legs. Rightly so. Sadly there is no shortage of likeminded so-called men. At your job, OP, slow or non-existant service is quite appropriate for guys who fail to conduct themselves with respect.
Doesn’t get it and apparently never will. Keeps on trying to defend his poorly thought out stance though. Not that expectations were any “less” with “more.”
good grief more-on and tim, speaking for myself (which is all any human can do) I do NOT judge all men based on your comments/character.
comments directed at certain segments/behaviours do not paint the entire male sex with the same brush – why do you take affront as if it did?
and taking a small liberty here of saying I MAY speak for certain other females on the board, who I know have and cherish their sons, brothers, fathers, partners, we would not be ‘happy’ if the male sex disappeared. what a stupid comment.
and speaking of stupid comments, if you admit you rarely frequent bars, how does that give you the wherewithal to claim that OP’s experience is unlikely. gad.
if your job is serving food, drinks to other humans its a good idea to have friendliness on both sides. Hi how are ya? it doesn’t give you permission to touch/fondle/stroke your server. same with store clerks. taxi drivers, bus drivers, airline stews, doctors, nurses, teachers, garbage handlers, physicists. it not part of their JOB to be touched or spoken to in a sexual manner. there are other jobs that DO involve the exchange of money for sexual speech/contact. what part of TOO STUPID to know the difference do you claim?
I never said it did, but it seems to me that lately and especially in the last 20 years ALL men have been stomped upon and tarred with the same brush and that is so untrue. Most men are respectful. In movies and TV, men have been made to look evil, foolish, greedy, etc.
it ‘seems to me lately’ that all women are money grubbing cretins who do nothing but shop and amass ex husbands and paint their ample asses with shiny oil and take selfies.
oh wait….you mean not ALL women do that? I just saw some shitz on the internet and due to some insecurity of my own EXTRAPOLATED that to believe my entire sex was being portrayed thusly?
cmmdr hadfield. Justin trudeau. those guys on the calendar holding kittens. George takei. glenn canning. tuxedo stan. Andrew grantham. Nathan cirillo. robin Williams. any movie male portrayal by Harrison ford or morgan freeman. I see a lot of media coverage of pretty damn nice guys. the thing is, if you have a sore tooth, your tongue just cannot stay away from it. poking and poking til your entire mouth hurts.
it doesn’t mean you should ignore the rot, but don’t get the idea someone says you should pull all your teeth.
Movies and television almost universally characterize women and men in terms of race-based and gender-based stereotypes, whether the characterizations are positive or negative. See Californication as an example of a show that lampoons negative gender stereotypes. Regardless of said characterization, women have less on-screen representation than men and are typically given roles that serve to support a male protagonist (True Detective, Breaking Bad, just to name a couple of examples). More often than not females are portrayed as subservient to a male protagonist based on a traditional family role (daughter or spouse) or business-client tie (assistant, nanny, waitress, prostitute, stripper). See The Sopranos for examples of both. Within these stereotypical roles women are often cast negatively as diverting the protagonist from their end goal (as when Walter White’s spouse attempts to curb his drug dealing; IRL, the actress received death threats over this). I’m not crapping on these shows, they are great. But it’s important to dispel the myth that males are generally portrayed as idiots. This is simply not true. In fact the only exception to this rule on TV (in recent memory) seems to be the BBC’s new show, The Fall, and even this is essentially a procedural crime drama about a man who kills successful women for fun.
Pearl of Wisdom is my new hero! So I’m not the only non-prossy who gets solicited for sex by passerby pervs. It’s insulting! How dare they think I would lie down with their old mealy body for money. I usually tell them I work in Law Enforcement and watch the look of panic appear in their eyes as they slump away. The pelting of pebbles and banchee screaming seems like a way more effective option tho! Mafucka won’t be tryin dat trick again! Another good move: get the money, then kick him in the balls and run!
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/78/78bf5710f6…
As for the original bitch, I agree with a lot of what she says, although the boilerplate fymynyst rhetoric is a bit tedious. From my pedestal of “male privilege” what she views as a systemic war on women, I call the prevalence of assholes and bad manners in society. But most men, realize that male assholes are capable of causing far more damage than their female counterparts. In this the parity gap is still immense. The workplace incident demands a response, but it’s all too likely that her boss told her to laugh it off because she didn’t want to hurt business. And that is absolutely not right.
As far as the Dal brats are concerned, their comments are no more “hate speech” than the average rap or hair metal song lyrics. Throw in any number of bad stand up comics, as well, and be sure to include the Rosie O’Donnells and Margaret Chos of the world. You, know – for equality. You may hate what somebody else says but that doesn’t make it hate speech. Qualifying it in legal terms does nothing more than send the message that certain groups are too emotionally immature to handle ugly words and that seems far more insulting than anything the dentists have written. And, please, I implore you – do not use the “words can inspire violent actions” argument because that is the same logic as saying that women need to be covered from head to toe in order to prevent men from acting on their uncontrollable lusts. And that’s just plain offensive, whoever you are.
I also agree with a lot of what HarperD said about the need to constantly stand and fight the stupidity. But I also know, from personal experience just how exhausting it is to feel at perpetual war with things over which you have no control. So, although my experiences may differ from the OP’s, I do understand the morale degrading effects of constantly feeling on the offensive.
Which brings me to the OP’s last line, about wanting the respect and privilege that us men supposedly have as our entitlement. There’s an undeniable truth to some of that, but there’s also a lot of “grass is greener” thinking as well. Most men I know, feel that world has about as much respect for them as the Artificial Intelligence had for it’s human D-Cells in The Matrix
And that has nothing to do with sit-com depictions and advertisements featuring buffoon-men being rescued by resourceful, strong women. It’s a lot more subtle and a lot more pervasive. The smart ones among us learn to value respect from sources that have value to us – friends , family, loved ones. The world at large can go screw. Because every privilege has it’s downside.
And the OP’s repeated oblique assertions that she falls into that minority of physically desirable women, indicates that she is as blind to her societal privilege as the men she excoriates. So, I’d ask her, if you had the power, would you trade places with any of us lumpen average gray men, for a moment, for a day, for a lifetime?
I’m glad to see that you agree with me about Spryfield.
Dis for Ivan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5oHnTtG5…
Dis why:
http://leblavog.files.wordpress.com/2013/0…
Now stop trying so hard; it makes you look a little desperate.
Dat comic don’t even make sense, ginge-minge. Out of context much? But yea, some dirty old bastard did try to solicit me a few months back… I was appalled dat creep thought I was a hooker! I wasn’t even wearing my bootie shakin’ attire. I remember specifically I had on long pants and ballet flats dat day. It’s a pretty sad day when a woman cant even sit on a bench by herself in the middle of the day without being solicited for sex. As if women have nothing valid to contribute to society or couldn’t possibly be anything but a commodity of the dirty ol’ patriarchy.
If it ever happens again, I’ll be pullin Pearl of Wisdom’s move…
I whip my hair back and forth, den pelt ’em wit stones!
I have no doubt No_Fool was approached by a perv. Those assholes aren’t looking for Victoria’s Secret models. If you are female and breathing they’ll hit on you. Hell, even breathing is optional for some of those dick-centric bastards.
Unless you are female you have no idea how prevalent these pervs are. I (not Victoria’s Secret material) have lost count of how many times I’ve encountered guys driving by slowly clicking their electric door locks to signal intent then circling around the block to do it again. Some pervs expose themselves or force themselves upon you when they think they can get away with it. I wish I was making this up.
Banshee screams are the best defense. Sends the scum scurrying shamefully.
(Can’t for the life of me figure out why anyone would down vote my original post. Unless you are one of the pervs? WTF people.)
Pearl, don’t mind. Just another example of the patronizing patriarchy ignoring reality, trying to discredit women’s experiences with his old and crusty jokes. Talk about male entitlement! Women ain’t even entitled to our own experience. See what Rusty done did?
“I can only presume that you were plying your ancient trade outside the CNIB?”
Doubtful.
More like Gramps ain’t that picky, Uncle Vanya.
“Just another example of the patronizing patriarchy ignoring reality, trying to discredit women’s experiences with his old and crusty jokes. Talk about male entitlement! Women ain’t even entitled to our own experience.”
Ain’t that the fuckin’ truth! No_Fool, you nailed it honey!
Some men seem to think that because it has never happened to them, or because they don’t behave like creeps themselves (or maybe they do and get all defensive when called out), that women who have encountered creeps don’t know what they are talking about, or worse, are just making stuff up. Yeah, right! STFU!
Fool, according to you I`m a ginger – therefore, ipso fatso – no soul. C`mon kid, you can`t be that stupid, Can you.
https://i.imgflip.com/7ykl0.jpg
Ooooh yes, “The Patriarchy“ – because you outgrew the concept of God and religion but you still have to blame your failures and unhappiness on some omnipotent force.
Mo Fool`s “èxperience“ is like a cockatoo that can roller skate – Cute to watch, but ultimately meaningless.
Rusty: “Mo Fool`s “èxperience“ is like a cockatoo that can roller skate – Cute to watch.”
Truth comes out! He thinks I’m cute. Boi, you obsessed!
http://www.memecreator.com/static/images/m…
Stepped right into it, Fool. Predictable as a metronome, you are.
Lighten up folks!
This cartoon says it all regarding the OB and most of the commenters:
http://www.newyorker.com/images/2014/01/20/cartoons/140120_cartoon_061_a17976_p465.jpg
Who`s upset Chairman.
I agree with the OP`s frustration, if not the cause.
I believe Pearl`s story.
And as for Mo`Fool – the sexual tension between us is so thick you could cut it with a spork.
http://www.lifeunderthelights.com/wp-conte…
^^^ never knew it was called a “spork”. If it had a serrated edge it could be a combo knife, fork and spoon. A “kniforoon”? A “knispork”?
Now, this, is the apogee of American ingenuity:
http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections…
First thing: I believe you, and I want to say that I am so glad that women everywhere are speaking up. I’m a dude and I don’t experience these problems my self and can be blind to them because I don’t live that experience.
Now this is my bitch, or perhaps a question. Why is it that women can comment freely on how each other look, but men cannot? Are gay men allowed to comment on women’s appearance. Are queer women allowed to comment on men’s? Are gay men allowed to comment on other men? It seems a double standard in there some where. Maybe we should all hold our tongues about others appearances.
Some of us don’t appear beautiful and not being complimented wears our self esteem. Some of us do look good and receive disproportionate (appreciated or not) attention because of that. But why does our self esteem desire compliments on our appearance anyway?
Perhaps the point is deeper. If we all expect to be equals then we have to treat each other as equals. Which means treating each other as people, who have a character beyond our physical bodies.
I am me and you are you. I wish we could move past appearance. It is such a cumbersome way to judge people. After all we aren’t peahens or peacocks.
And that would crash the fashion industry.
So wear rags and whatever clothes you want, just stop trying because nobody should care how you look anyway.
I really hope it doesn’t seem i am over simplifying this. It just seems we all need to treat each other with dignity and respect, no matter how we appear.
Unfortunately there are people who want what you have, and want to take it for themselves, whether that is your body, or your labour, people have been exploiting each other for so long we can’t see where it began or ends.
Males might not be exploited in the same way as women. But we all get exploited. That is ultimately the problem. Typically women get raped and men get killed.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectiona… and try to remember what is happening right now can change because it has before. Keep fighting. Hell, (believe it or not) even white men can be and were exploited.
The problem lies ultimately in that old old Latin phrase
Homo homini lupus
Quite right, Mary Bore. I don’t understand why my account hasn’t been banned. I can only suppose that the moderator over-indulged in placenta-tinis with the Hysterix Coven and spent yesterday sleeping it off.
Excellent book:
http://www.amazon.ca/Man-Is-Wolf-Surviving…
Well, I guess I owe the moderator an apology , of sorts. It seems our very own Dolores Umbrage was wielding her Blood Quill in the witching hours, after all.
Rhetorical Question: Why did you leave up the meme I posted @ 7:31 AM but excise the preamble to my post @ 8:49 in which I established that the meme was directed at a single commenter, and not the O.P.?
Surely you have noticed by now (Moderator’s Note: Please don’t call me Shirley) that I have no trouble at all in making myself look like an obnoxious jerk when it suits me. Your assistance in this matter is as much use as the requirement that the average icthys has for a velocipede.
mr. mccat is this it? http://www.newyorker.com/images/2014/01/20…
STOP PIGGY-BACKING ON GLORIA!
“Your assistance in this matter is as much use as the requirement that the average icthys has for a velocipede.” Shirley
It was of course Gloria Steinem who said, “A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle” but some objections might be raised. For example, whoever heard of a fish being impregnated by a bicycle? Does it make sense? Of course not. In any case Shirley, stop piggy-backing on Gloria!
And you better watch your step. The Mod can be “capricious.” You said so yourself. The evidence is accumulating. I fear action will soon be taken.
A pleasure as always,
Cheerio!
I feel constrained to point out, Montrealman, that in using the term “piggy-backing” in connection with one of the shining luminaries of fymynyst thought, you are opening yourself up to charges of sexually dehumanizing wimmin by comparing them to livestock, as well as accusations of species-ism in suggesting that you, as a man, dare to place yourself consciously or unconsciously above the level of swine. You too have felt the stinging lash of fymynyst justice, in the past, so watch yourself, lest you too become guilty of maiing this space unsafe.
Of course the mod deletes my post about me stating my astonishment that this thread isn’t locked and empty, and accounts banned, because people have their own opinions and don’t blindly fall in line with feminist thought and demands. Guilty conscience eh.
LOL @ Black Hitler! About time that actress from ‘Precious’ found new work!
Welcome to the gynoligarchy, MB.
Don’t you feel better about yourself, now that fymynysm has cured you of the delusion that you can aspire to be something other than a rapist, or gay?
I think Gabby’s been getting some work on American Horror Story.
yep, last two seasons
I’m not in any way saying what you present is wrong OB…
but a quick question:
Had all the guys been gorgeous (and likely if you were single) would you be on the love side rattling on about how you had just the best day ever?
I agree it’s really annoying/demeaning when you don’t want it to happen but I highly doubt you’d actually like it if no man paid you a single complement or touched you in any way for the rest of your entire life.
There has to be a balance… and unfortunately plenty of guys out there aren’t sure exactly where that line is.
I wonder if sebastian’s mom was a fymynst.
And you cannot write ‘susan b anthonazi’ because it’s syxyst and bad.
Maybe if fymynysts didn’t act like they’re the only ones who can have opinions, people wouldn’t laugh and make fun of their stupid cause. Wah, I don’t want to be called “mrs.” because I’m a womyn!
RSVP
: Shirley (01/02, 9:58AM)
“You too have felt the stinging lash of fymynist justice, in the past, so watch yourself, lest you too become guilty of maiing (sic) this space unsafe.”
My God, are you now accusing the Mod of being a “fymynist?” You’re skating close to the edge Shirley, very close to the edge. It won’t be pretty.
A pleasure as always,
Cheerio!
I don’t mean to say i know everything about being exploited. I’m just saying it could happen to any one and that sucks, and we all need to take deep breath and work together to make the world suck less day by day.
Classism, sexism, racism, gender bias; most of us experience at least one of them, though many are burdened with so much more.
None of it is fair.
Wow–pretty intense set of experiences and emotions for one person’s day that they are trying to present as “typical.”
This is a very cliche style of writing: “Someone was personally nasty to me, and meanwhile in the news there was an unrelated story of other people being nasty . . . therefore the whole world is conspiring to be nasty to me and no one believes me.”
And, as reprehensible as the actions of those Dal Dentistry Students are, those students are not the same people who directly harassed you in public. (And, no, generic references to the concept of gendered violence does not make the link any less tenuous.)
While all these events are serious, the OB makes the mistake of cherry-picking larger “big picture” events to add to her list of their own experiences, while leaving out hundreds of others. Is the loss of the AirAsia flight also adding to your bad day in Halifax? What about the ongoing conflict in Gaza? Child marriage in India? Family evictions in the UK? New Year’s Day Shooting in Calgary? Why are these terrible issues left out of “your” list of experiences? (Hint: because they are in all liklihood not “yours.”)
Guess what? This sort of thing has a name: it’s called “World Pain.” Everyone who has ever lived has had it (which you would know if you read something outside of contemporary feminist writing) and everyone else has it worse than the next person. No one is immune.
Look, getting harassed is miserable. Reading about privileged university students getting away with offensive online postings makes me mad too. But if you think that these “lite” experiences are even in the same universe as true violence as experienced by millions of people around the world every day, you are being shockingly disrespectful to those who are truly oppressed, and who will never, EVER get a single moment in their short, tortured lives to experience the luxuries and freedoms that you, an educated female living in Canada get to experience every moment of every day.
the OB’s interpretation of what constitutes hate speech/crimes generally pisses me off…your interpretation is wrong…heres the law:Section 319 deals with publicly stirring up or inciting hatred against an identifiable group based on colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation. It is illegal to communicate hatred in a public place by telephone, broadcast or through other audio or visual means, but the same section protects people from being charged with a hate crime if their statements are truthful or the expression of a religious opinion.
The mischief section, 430, covers hate-motivated mischief and religious property. It provides for harsher sentences than mischief involving other property.
Hate propaganda” means “any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence under section 319. simply saying they want to hate fuck A person, is not, by definition of the law, a hate speech or hate crime. it is repulsive…demeaning to someone who is identified as the target of those thoughts, absolutely. But it isnt hate speech or hate crime as i said, by the very definition of the laws covering those issues. AT the very least if you do your research, it would be considered sexual harrassment, which every organization has a mandate to address by the government of Canada. those policies are designed to address the speedy resolution of conflict within a workplace/organization with the privacy of both parties respected, however understood that at any time a party is unsatisfied with the proceedings, further ability to go to a higher level is allowed.
im sorry you feel demeaned, debased. i am sorry that there are still people out there that think its acceptable behaviour to treat others like this(women do it to, i know, it happened to me on new years eve) the thing is, noone…NOONE will ever debase me, i wont allow it. noone dictates to me what my worth is. as my supervisor tells me, you cant win all the fights, pick your battles and work to win the war. you will drive yourself absolutely nuts feeling all the injustices of the world on your shoulders. Stand up for yourself like you did, and carry the fuck on. do your job and keep standing up for yourself. then noone can debase you again.
moderators have squashed any logical and profound reasoning that counters their pro-feminism and pro androginistic views….