At a time when flags at post offices, fire departments and all manner of buildings are at half-mast in honour of the three slain Mounted Police officers, the largest flag in the community, visible to thousands from the Bi-Centennial Highway, flew proudly last Friday. I guess lowering it was just not worth the trouble. -A Former Customer
This article appears in Jun 5-11, 2014.
Actually, it takes extra effort to get it up there. I’m not toooooo sure why this matters overly, I mean they did lower it last week and well… how long is long enough? Also just because a flag went up doesn’t mean that all the sad feelings just went out the window and all of a sudden it’s monday and nothing happened… but we’re people and we like routine and just because they put the flag all the way up does in no way mean it’s disrepectful of the officers who died in moncton. If we follow your logic we should have them down at half mast all the time with the amount of people dying in the world today, as unpopular as it might be i think you should shut the hell up and mind your own flag. Uncanadian my ass.
It’s usually flown at half until the funeral.. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for considering the sacrifice they made for us and our country.
You are a ‘former’ customer because of this? LOL
What a fortunate business owner.
Some flag poles don’t allow for half masting.
Here are the rules on half masting:
http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1329153045577/132…
It’s no secret that I’m not a huge fan of the police (RCMP slightly better than regional police IMO) but the moncton shooter was a coward and I really do feel terrible for the families of those officers. The whole thing is tragic and should never have happened but stressing over a piece of cloth that is tied to a large metal pole accomplishes nothing. If you are that torn, OP, make a donation to something relevant to this cause or e-mail the people responsible for the flag that offended you.
I, in no way support what that guy did in Moncton, but really, cops shoot people all the time. Remember that homeless guy in Montreal, or those natives dudes in Saskatoon who got left for dead in the snow, or all the others we so conveniently forgot? They did’t get any state funerals or people crying on the news. Boo Fucking Hoo piggies.
Back to your mommie’s basement, zeke. It’s pizza pocket time. Maybe she’ll make some strawberry milk, too.
Instead of spending what amounts to thousands of dollars on flowers and teddy bears to be placed at those makeshift shrines, why not put the money to good use, either donate it to a worthwhile charity, or to the families of the slain officers, or to buy a good piece of rope and find a sturdy limb?
@Ivan
When was the last time you spent ten minutes in the real world? Not in your supremacist, misogynist fantasy fap fest?
Police brutality is real, and is increasing. Yet we won’t do 3rd party review of officers, or recognize our police for what they are and were, violent oppressors of indigenous culture, and agents of corporate capitalist domination. Instead we allow them to investigate themselves and punish their transgressions by giving them paid leave.
We have to stop using patriotism and loyalty to some sense of duty to whitewash the crimes committed by the police.
My faith in the police will be given once they earn it. Getting shot doesn’t make you a hero, doing the right thing against all odds makes you a hero.
When they clean up their act, then maybe I can begin to trust them, and forgive their actions. But until then let’s not forget without justice the law is nothing but rules.
Go google ‘Stasi’ and you tell me whether police can do no wrong.
There are cowards and criminals on both sides of the thin blue line.
Cops or not, as far as I’m concerned the people that died in Moncton were just 3 more murders in a long list of violent crime.
That might deserve sympathy for grieving families, and respect for the dead, but lets not make these guys into martyrs because they aren’t anyone special.
So what you’re SAYING is, zuke, you got thrown in the drunk tank once and now you’re all “FUCK THE PO PO!” amirite?
The fact is these three men went to work and lost their lives because of it because some asshole decided to go on a shooting spree, and that shit ain’t right.
You’re trying to compare Western police to Stasi and other totalitarian secret police forces? Bwhahahahahahhahahaha. What a maroon.
No I am not comparing them. I am saying the police don’t deserve special treatment, because they are nothing special.
Three people died at work, who cares if they are cops or not. The police don’t deserve our sympathy more than any other tragic victim.
You guys always skip the relevant bits, and continually attempt to trivialize any thoughtful commentary.
“Boo Fucking Hoo piggies.”
I see what you mean by thoughtful commentary, zeke.
If I knew you at all, or gave a fiddler’s toss I’d feel embarrassed for you. But, this is the interwebz , where one can laugh at the developmentally arrested and feel not the pangs of conscience.
Your stance is the feces produced when faddish politics gorges itself on too much stupidity.
You deride other peoples adherence to patriotism and sense of duty while regurgitating the same dusty agitprop slogans that might have sounded intelligent back when Emma Goldman could still turn heads with a saucily viewed ankle
In this case you can’t even argue some kind of social justice equivalent of Karmic balance.
You’re farting out your mouth from the same perspective as the moron who murdered a Sikh at a gas station the day after 9-11. What a maroon, indeed.
Here’s hoping you get shot by a police officer. While committing a property crime.
Boo Fucking Hoo you little pissant jamrag.
.
Jamrags like zuke would be the first to shit their pants if all the cops went away and we’d have to live in a world without law enforcement.
Law enforcement officers are the ones who will jump in front of gunfire to protect civilians. I think the skid marks who spew this kind of bullshit don’t seem to want to acknowledge that fact.
Fucking shit stains.
PK, you can’t fix stupid. The best you can hope for is that they get tempted to try Krokodil.
yea cool story, bro.
It was, wasn’t it. especially the part where I handed you your ass. You might want to trim those dingleberries. Unless poor rectal hygiene is your idea of civil disobedience.
Keep rubbing against the machine, bro.
Oh zuke would be the first to piss his panties and run away screaming like a little girl in the opposite direction if someone was running around with a gun and ready to shoot.
He’s just a dumbass with no clue.
Ok officially tired of arguing with moronic trolls who are incapable of doing meaningful research. Better go live my real life now.
My personal feelings about the police aside…
It is sad that these officers were murdered in cold blood by some psychopath with delusions of grandeur but, wishing someone death for committing a “property crime” is in no way “handing someone their ass”. If you think that it’s ok for police to shoot and kill someone for stealing something, you are part of an increasing militant faction of society that truly believes that police are within their rights to operate under the mantra “by any means necessary”. Police, just like everyone in society, have rules they have to follow and absolving them of that responsibility equates to nothing less than a police state. (I know, I know, I’m a dirty, hippy, occupy jamrag)
I agree with some of what zuke says. Police should not be allowed to investigate themselves and they should not be compensated while they are being investigated. Police investigating police is nothing more than a conflict of interest. If you are “suspended” you are no longer able to work, therefore you are no longer able to collect a paycheck (which people typically get for working).
Thing is, crime stats keep going down across the board but, the police force keeps growing, we keep building mega-prisons to house an ever dwindling criminal population to be guarded by an ever increasing prison guard union. The solution, make more shit illegal and make it easier to circumvent or change the rules so the deck is stacked for the police. Fuck peoples “rights”, those are just an inconvenience to be steamrolled in the name of justice.
“Meaningful research” – you mean cut and paste from infowars.com? Lima-Oscar-Foxtrot-Lima.
Go back to shitting in doorways, zeke. The revolution needs all the help it can get.
Yes Taint – keep bringing up that old canard about independent investigations. You know, the way a surgeon who fucks up gets to have his work reviewed by a panel of panhandlers, stroller mamas, and the guys who hold orange signs at construction sights. Or the way a plane crash is investigated by by people who spend their day scratching lotto tickets. It’s not a conflict of interest to have possible job misfeasance investigated by people who actually know what the fucking job is. The people who yelp loudest for these so-called independent investigations seem to think that the review panel can and should be stocked with the sort of people who already have an ingrained antipathy to the police, – lawyers, activists, advocates and progressives. Fuck objectivity – the fix is already in. The only way to avoid a “conflict of interest” is to bring in the result that you’ve already decided. Pathetic.
Yes, we keep hearing about crime stats going down. While crimes themselves are getting more horrific. While quality of life crimes seem to be on the increase. I don’t honestly know if more police officers, more prisons are the answer. But I certainly don’t see them as either the cause or the symptom of any “loss of rights” The problem is, we have created a generation, a society so fucking obsessed with their rights, specifically their right to instant gratification at the expense of others. That’s where the loss of rights comes in. Not with more law officers on the street.
And my natural sympathies and respect will always be for those who run toward the sound of danger. Soldiers, police officers, firefighters, EMTs. They aren’t supermen; they aren’t flawless but they are the thin red line between civil society and anarchy.
And shitheads like zeke can go suck Che’s cock in anarchist hell. >: )
Cue Mr. Meaty:
“Mmmmm – Che cock. Muy Caliente. ARRIBA!”
>; )
Jesus, Ivan, I was going to stay out of this but, fuck it. The only people that are qualified to investigate police are police? Were these people born with some sort of special insight into these professions that is not present in the general populace? Did they not learn the tools of the trade? Is there no one, other than themselves, that could be taught the very clear rules that officers are to follow and pass judgement on their conduct? Really? And your answer is that homeless people and traffic safety people would have to do it if cops can’t is just utterly ridiculous!!!!
Truth is, rules are the same as laws. The difference is that police are there to enforce the law, using the rules of conduct (laws) set out by our elected representatives to protect OUR rights. When the police police the police, there is a complete breakdown of the justice system. If you have to answer to yourself, what stops you from doing whatever the hell you want? Look at the political system, a system of checks and balances built on the “honor system”, what a fucking joke. If you think that the police are any different than them, you are sorely mistaken.
I believe there needs to be unbiassed oversight not only for the purpose of protecting peoples rights but, also for pretecting the public purse. It is a complerte waste of public resources to have a bunch of cops shooting from the hip and using the law of averages when it comes to conviction rates. Every time someone gets off on a “technicality” is really just another term for shitty police work. Peoples rights are there for a reason, to make sure the police do their due diligence when it comes to building their case. I don’t want to pay for a bunch of rednecks bulldozing their way through cases, onlyto have my money and the courts time wasted when it gets tossed out.
I have great respect for the job that the police do every day and recognize that they are a necessary part of society but, I don’t always have agree with how they do their job. There are some nasty people out there and I don’t want my shit stolen, I don’t want to live in fear with a shotgun on my lap to protect what’s mine and my family but, I am not going to fork over my rights and give the police carte blanche over how they do their job.
I agree with SHITD on this one. Comparing police and medical professions in terms of their ability to conduct independent investigations is simply inappropriate. Malpractice cases are investigated by medical licensing boards, such as the College of Family Physicians. The CFP has the right to revoke a medical license. There is no comparable for police. Such a comparison would require that individuals be licensed to serve as police officers, and if the granting and revocation of policing credentials was in the hands of an independent authority, i.e. independent of the hiring police department. Unlike police, physicians also do not have a powerful union to support them during allegations of malpractice.
Yeah, yeah – that sort of independent oversight is a great idea in theory. But unless it is composed of people who have some knowledge of, and experience of law enforcement, how the hell is it competent to sit in judgement of a police officer’s actions. And unless this so-called “independent” panel consistently finds against police officers, it’s motives and credibility will be questioned and dismissed by those very people who demanded “independent oversight”. See the paradox, here. I don’t know what the alternative is, but I sure as hell don’t believe in the panacea approach being advocated here. It’s as much of a bullshit dog and pony show as the so-called “conflict of interest” of police investigating themselves. That kind of civilian oversight is going to lead to a mentality of “Better a hundred innocent cops get thrown under the bus than 1 dirty one go free?” Seriously? You’re going to need that shotgun on your lap to keep your family safe.
My rights are not infringed by the police. They are absofuckinglutely infringed by the scum, the filth and the sociopaths who believe that they have the right to fuck with my life. Schizophenics, anarchists, abused as children, toilet trained too soon, residential school, watched too many video games… – I don’t give a fuck. They are the enemy – not the men in blue.
IMO.
Well known fact: “Yes, we keep hearing about crime stats going down.”
Not backed by data, but commonly spouted by conservative writers and politicians: “While crimes themselves are getting more horrific.”
Statistics Canada reports the “Crime Severity Index”, which is a re-weighted crime rate that gives more weight to more severe incidents of crime. If crimes were becoming more horrific,we would expect to see an increase in the severity of crime as captured by the Crime Severity Index. However, both the overall Crime Severity Index and the violent Crime Severity Index have declined steadily between 1998 and 2012.
It is also true that all forms of homicide rates have been declining (first degree murder). Attempted murder rates have declined over the same period as above. Same is true for all types of sexual assault (levels 3 through 1). Same is true for most types of assaults (except Level 2). Level 2 assault as well as forcible confinement and kidnapping (with weapon or causing bodily harm) increased until about 2005, then declined steadily. The one statistic conservative politicians point to is “total sexual violations against children”, which has increased since 1998, but only because it was introduced as a separate criminal category in 2002. We really don’t have good enough data on incidents of child sex crimes to say whether or not they have increased over time.
So there seems to be no evidence of a widespread, systematic, increase in the severity of crime. Crime does not seem to be becoming more horrific, despite the hysteria reported by the media.
No clue what a “quality of life crime is”. “While quality of life crimes seem to be on the increase.”
I was not aware of those statistics. And, yes, I do probably form my impression of society from news reports . This is a case where I really do hope I’m wrong. I’ll even go so far as to say I hope your information is correct. But it in no way alters my view that the biggest threat to my “rights” as an individual in this society are under more threat from those who have made the conscious decision to violate the law, than from those who have sworn an oath to uphold it.
Any information from Statscan on incidents of police misconduct? Rising, falling, steady, reported more often? Or just spectacularly reported enough to validate the biases of the “Boo Fucking Hoo Piggies” crowd of bottom feeders
Because Internal Affairs are so loved and respected by their fellow policemen…
okay…
I’m just glad this convo didn’t degrade into the good guy with a gun vs bad guy with a gun trope you see on every comment board about a shooting in the states.
https://i.imgflip.com/9ecqd.jpg
I don’t really know about crimes against police. I don’t know if there is a separate category in the criminal code for crimes committed by peace officers. A police officer who commits a murder in the line of duty is normally charged with murder, not “murder by police officer”. One would have to check with internal investigation organizations that investigate such allegations to see if they systematically collect and publish this kind of data.
Anyway, I didn’t mean to pick apart your comments. Like you, I’m thankful for members of the police and military and the sort of life that their sacrifices allow ordinary Canadians to live. I have tremendous respect for the type of work police, as individuals, carry out each day. My negative views about police are generally about the institutions of police enforcement, not the police officers themselves. These institutions create incentives for police wrongdoing. Can anyone really think of a little kid whose dream about becoming a police officer was motivated by a thirst for authority and a desire to harm innocent, law-abiding dissenters? I like to think that people have good intentions, despite their ineptitude in setting up institutions.
As far as I’m concerned there are far too many “bad guys” out there jerking off with weapons. Adding well intentioned good guys to the mix is not a great idea. The status quo may appear to suck, especially when emotions are running high, but it does have a lot of potential to get worse. If conservatives can’t be trusted with justice unless a profit is to be made, and lefties can’t be trusted to defend the rights of the true victims of crime – just where the fuck does that leave Joe Jagoff, the taxpayer, who works a job he hates in order to pay for scrap of decent life? Rhetorical question. Answer not required.
No worries about picking apart my comments. I like to think I can admit when I’m wrong. It may take a lot of convincing, but it’s not unknown to happen. I was just curious as to how much of a problem police misconduct actually is, rather than how big it appears on the evening news.
everything ‘appears bigger’ now because we have instant, widespread reporting of everything. the media determines what to stress, what to downplay based on how many viewers they can get out of it. its like a toilet filled with shit and loose bolts to the floor. it sloshes this way and that to bring one turd then another to the top.
could anyone want the dissolution of our police forces? (and lets stick to Canadian forces, not turn of the century eastern bloc)
any group of people has its nutters. whether the group is police, teachers, priests, nuns, accountants or those fucking dairy farm workers in Chilliwack. and each occupation has its own antipathies because of constant exposure to whatever they deal with most often.
and people gravitate towards the occupations ( if they can) that most closely reflect their personal view of the world. PERSONAL view. its not the only view. its not some omniscient judgement. everyone brings to the table their own experiences, their parents influence (to or from) and IMO what kind of mind they were born with. so person A becomes a cop because they tend to the ‘right’ and person B becomes a social worker because they tend to the ‘left’. they deal with the same ‘class’ of people don’t they? but most likely with a completely opposite view/judgement/conclusion.
personally I cannot fathom why social workers types can sit across from some of these assholes and smile and let them into the general public again but there ya go. as a general public schmuck our lot is to provide victims for these cretins. and hope there is a cop nearby to interfere with the cretins right to perpetuate his lousy childhood upon my cringing frame.
if you don’t like cops in general, you probably had a bad experience ( or two) if you do like cops in general, you have probably had good experiences. or none. people just stay within their own frame of reference.
personally, I think cops are special. like firefighters, they run towards danger. but for a lot less appreciation. when I am on a day off and having a nice bbq, I MAY log in to work if I hear of an emergency, but its highly unlikely that some cretin will shoot me in the fucking head because I did.
I in no way condone the senseless murderous act against the police in Moncton. That there are police officers who have murdered ( I believe they have a much nicer sounding word for it, when a cop does it) civilians , like the deluded man in Toronto holding himself hostage with a knife, who was killed by police … he actually had bullet wounds in his back. That RCMP officers who murdered that man in the BC airport , by tasering him so many times his heart gave out. None of these actions in my opinion are in any way justification for the murder of those 3 RCMP in Moncton.
Perhaps I’m too cynical or maybe you’ll think I’m just an asshole. I don’t feel badly for those people who choose to be paid to carry a gun & attempt to enforce the laws of this country ,when they die doing their job ! That is a reality they all are fully aware of when they train to do that job. In my opinion though , to touch on the rantings I read in the news about the attackers hate for authority & their distain for them upholding the laws. No matter if those laws they swear to uphold are right , or wrong in our personal or collective opinions. That doesn’t take away from how wrong , waiting with a high powered rifle & killing them when they arrive is .
People die doing their jobs every day, people get murdered for the type of clothing they have on, for breaking up with a spouse, boy/girlfriend, they get killed in the work place by disgruntled employees etc . These are facts of life & I really don’t see what position a flag is in, makes a sweet good god damned difference. In all cases of death , where people are killed by the heinous crime of another that I see in the news . I feel badly for the family & loved ones far more than I do for the deceased. Especially the children …. I look at my own children & grandchildren & know just how badly they will be hurt, scarred even, by such a senseless act, against their mum or dad, their uncles,aunts or grandparents.
Hopefully this person will face the maximum penalty for his crimes & we the public will have 1 less potential murderer in our midst.
In the face of what has happened… the position of a flag is so trivial, it’s just not worth considering.
“The media”, to pick a single word to apply to the vast number of ways that information is handled and disseminated is a lousy lens through which to view the world. And every now and then I forget that fact. Add in fatigue, stress, and the overwhelming mood of ugliness that seems to permeate general society, it’s hard to convince myself that the feeling of being under seige is more emotional than fact based.
In most provinces they have SIRT Teams to investigate police infractions.
I’d like to sit in on a Spetznas Internal Inquiry: Da, we killed everyone in the dachau, ok so wrong address, we try better next time, want to have another drink?
A CATCH-22 SITUATION: THE COSTS OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Rather than blaming the police or the shooter for the events in Moncton, it seems to me that it was the former but not the latter who found themselves in a catch-22 situation. By observing the inviolability of Justin Bourke’s rights of freedom of speech, rights which protected him against illegal confinement for the words he may have uttered on Facebook, the police could do nothing even though his parents had warned them of his homicidal tendencies. He had not actually committed any crime. Their hands were tied.
However, when his words gave way to actions the Catch-22 situation was resolved but at the expense of the tragic deaths of three Mounties. So what’s the solution? On the one hand, should the rights of freedom of speech in the anticipation of possible – but by no means certain – future criminal homicides be suppressed or, on the other hand, should the police do nothing and just hope for the best?
While the second option appears to be disagreeable, basic rights such as freedom of speech must be upheld but in the knowledge that to do so can come at a horrible cost. Nevertheless, to suppress those freedoms comes at an even greater cost. Justin Bourke’s parents put the blame on the system. He had, they claimed, “fallen through the cracks.” Yes, I suppose he did but I still had to restrain my quick response – “Yes, that’s what often happens to pieces of shit” – but I heroically held my tongue.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
I’ve read every comment and found many good points but the one I find lacking is ” Could this tragedy with the Mounties have been prevented?”
My answer is possibly. Anyone who utters a death threat gets reprimanded pretty quick but on a social media site, law enforcement’s hands are tied. How so? As I stated before on another post, “Written word is the most powerful tool in language”. If law enforcement can reprimand and take corrective steps with someone uttering threats, what holds them back when it’s written?
Had the authorities taken this perceived threat as being very possible why didn’t they take steps to circumvent what was about to happen and keep tabs on this character’s goings on.
Case in point, I’m harmless and wouldn’t utter or write anything to say I would hurt anyone but just yesterday as I was driving home, I saw a police SUV sitting on the side of the road about 8 kms from my home. The officer quickly followed and at the first set of lights I saw him punching in my plate number. I said to myself ” Knock yourself out, I have nothing to hide”. I wouldn’t have given much thought to being followed but I have to make several turns to get home and he continued to follow me. When I finally turned into my driveway that was when he kept going. Coincidence?, probably not. Stereotyping?, most likely because of my hair.
In recent times Pols and law enforcement have finally taken steps against cyber-bullying and formulated penalties for instances of that. The sad part is it takes someone taking their life for them to finally open their eyes.
As much as I sympathize with this senseless killing of law enforcement on our own soil, the media has hyped this out of proportion. Where are the media when our brave soldiers are taken out by a crazed maniac with IED’s on foreign soil. Did the maniac go on social media to say what he or she was going to do? Probably not. Would the media be there at their funerals and given them equal billing rights to followers and listeners. I think not. Yes, we hear about it then it seems like it’s yesterday’s news.
I agree that there are instances of police brutality and excessive force but one has to be mindful that not every law enforcement officer sees a perceived threat in the same light. Their choices are based on their own perception of that percieved threat, and no two difficult or hostile situations will ever be the same in perceived threats.
Like this percieved threat
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/jail-video-p…
Ok I am trolling. This was a good thread though.
the most canadian thing you can do is passive aggression, and you fuckin nailed it with this anonymous post!i suggest you start a canadian-style tea party to protect that flag (probably made in a cheaper country) from such indignities.