It’s a very tragic and disturbing situation with the alleged rape and subsequent suicide of a young girl. But why is everyone pointing the finger at the police?
There was no rape kit done, no witnesses, no confessions, no statements. Our justice system requires evidence, without that, the police can lay no charges and the courts can do NOTHING.
I understand everyone is in a high emotional state but can we stop blaming the police for an issue we as a society helped create? This is a social issue, not a police issue. —Appreciator of the Brave Men & Women Who Protect Him
This article appears in Apr 11-17, 2013.
i believe the RCMP has jurisdiction in this case
witnesses, confessions, statements….
WHO is responsible for obtaining all these items?
POLICE, dumb ass!
Worst bitch ever. Next up, a bitch defending rape culture.
it’s all over the news, people are gross. i suspect this isn’t the end of these bitches
This whole situation is mind boggling. That girl was failed in many ways…10 months to question the accused?
Bottom line, no one in authority had the spine to stand up and ruffle a few feathers.
Score one for shame to all who did nothing when they might have.
Score zero for integrity of said parties.
“witnesses, confessions, statements….
WHO is responsible for obtaining all these items?
POLICE, dumb ass!”
Witnesses actually have to come forward and give their statements. Police cannot force anyone to give a statement.
Police cannot force anyone to confess and if they did, people would be outraged.
I’ll add one – evidence. It is hard to get evidence when it has been destroyed. In the case of sexual assault, when the victim washes it away.
It is EVERYBODY’s responsibility to get the proper information to the proper authorities.
The police know pretty well all the perpetrators of the murders in this city but because people will not come forward, they stay in the Pending box. If you want to get rid of crime then YOU have to speak up and put these people away. Crimes are not solved in an hour like on TV.
Bro Tim, just wondering if you’ve heard of obstruction of justice.
So a photo of this rape taking place isn’t evidence? Comeon…police can access the facebook accounts of the boys accused and use THAT information as evidence.
This comes down to laziness. Unless there’s revenue to be gained, police don’t give a flying fuck about justice, plain and simple.
Bro Tim,
Im guessing your quite the apologist for inaction and obsfucation when it comes to people actually doing their jobs…unless they happen to be low paid and an easy mark for ridicule.
Crimes arent solved in an hour like on TV? Brilliant observation, how many times have you regurgitated that bit of claptrap? God forbid that girl actually felt shame at putting herself in that situation!! And she washed!!! The fucking audacity of her…
Go back to reading Anne Coulter and other conservative blowhards who blame victims rather than the perpetrators.
Your silence on this matter just might be the smartest thing you’ve said so far.
Have a nice day
Another genius comment Mr Shapiro. So the police have never solved a crime without financial incentive? Would their pay checks count?
if this had ever happened to one of my daughters or grand daughter, there would bell freezing over til i stopped looking for the ones responsible, or getting any kind of EVIDENCE to nail the little bastards involved.
yeah okay o.p., if we go by yur thinking, all the murderers and drug cartels and such are nice people too, right?
bull fucking shit, they know who they are, and other people know too. don’t forget, someone took a very vivid picture of her sposedly getting it on with one of them.
the law has to be changed to protect the ones, that truly are the victem. never mind the girl, that wants to fuck, then turns up preggers. and then starts yelling rape. being drunk or in any form not in 100 % control of their actions, constitute a crime against them.
too much underage shit going on anyway, and letting go. kids nowadays shold take a smart lesson and just say NO, period.
i know of a few girl from years back, got raped, and the fathers went hunting the little fuck/s that did it. and let me just tell you, there were no cops involved and no one, in their circle of creepy friends, ever thought to try this with any other girl, drunk or ever sober.
what the fuck is this world really coming to? when we can’t even get a bit of help for those, that are on the recieving end of this sick shit. the girl might not have killed herself over the rape, and yes it was, not alleged, but over the picture/s that went around the school/s. sick little bastards, and i hope that some of their circle come forward, and nail their fucking asses to the wall.
that should be marked as hell freezing over. this has me so pissed off, that i mistyped a few things there.
Kirk, I wonder if you’ve ever read the Criminal Code?
Here’s Obstruction of Justice:
Obstructing justice
139. (1) Every one who wilfully attempts in any manner to obstruct, pervert or defeat the course of justice in a judicial proceeding,
(a) by indemnifying or agreeing to indemnify a surety, in any way and either in whole or in part, or
(b) where he is a surety, by accepting or agreeing to accept a fee or any form of indemnity whether in whole or in part from or in respect of a person who is released or is to be released from custody,
is guilty of
(c) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or
(d) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Marginal note:Idem
(2) Every one who wilfully attempts in any manner other than a manner described in subsection (1) to obstruct, pervert or defeat the course of justice is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
Marginal note:Idem
(3) Without restricting the generality of subsection (2), every one shall be deemed wilfully to attempt to obstruct, pervert or defeat the course of justice who in a judicial proceeding, existing or proposed,
(a) dissuades or attempts to dissuade a person by threats, bribes or other corrupt means from giving evidence;
(b) influences or attempts to influence by threats, bribes or other corrupt means a person in his conduct as a juror; or
(c) accepts or obtains, agrees to accept or attempts to obtain a bribe or other corrupt consideration to abstain from giving evidence, or to do or to refrain from doing anything as a juror.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 127;
R.S., c. 2(2nd Supp.), s. 3;
1972, c. 13, s. 8.
Nothing there about having to talk or give a statement to police. I’ll go one further and see what’s in Public Mischief:
Public mischief
140. (1) Every one commits public mischief who, with intent to mislead, causes a peace officer to enter on or continue an investigation by
(a) making a false statement that accuses some other person of having committed an offence;
(b) doing anything intended to cause some other person to be suspected of having committed an offence that the other person has not committed, or to divert suspicion from himself;
(c) reporting that an offence has been committed when it has not been committed; or
(d) reporting or in any other way making it known or causing it to be made known that he or some other person has died when he or that other person has not died.
Marginal note:Punishment
(2) Every one who commits public mischief
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 140;
R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 19.
Nope, nothing there either.
This thing is big…
I’ve read at least 12 articles on it in the last 5 days (today included).
Now with the occurrence in the states as well…
not sure where this all is going to go but I am certainly not going to get sucked into a debate about who did what and could have done whatever differently.
It’s a tragedy that is now brought to the forefront and I hope it sparks positive change but that will all be up to those who are involved, least of which is myself.
Anonymous is right though… if they do have the names, they’d be inciting a lynching were they released. I guarantee you some crazy, enraged mofo would take them out and then we’d be left wondering if we even feel bad about that and why…
bro tim, i have the latest copy in my favorites column. i look at it quite fregently and also the civic codes and bylaws too. there are some cery obscure parts in it that the mouth piece lawyers use to skirt the code a lot. that’s why things have to change and very fucking soon. let me ask anyone on here with kids, of any age.
what would YOU do, if this happened to yours?
There was a year-long investigation and no evidence of rape, ergo – she was not raped.
Should they have taken pics? No. Spread them around? No. Bullied her? No. Those were the injustices, nothing else….
Lydia Bernardo was not convicted of raping those girls-ergo, she didn’t do it. What? Good logic Meaty.
I think the police were blamed for not investigating or something.
p
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/cana…
Jesus, that poor girl. Whatever justice is, I hope the family gets some, and people who would do this in the future have second thoughts about treating a kid like she doesn’t matter.
p
I don’t have children, but you can bet that if I did and something like this happened to one of them, I’d say screw the police and take matters into my own hands. It’s unimagineable what this family is going through.
Meaty: go play in traffic.
There’s the problem with the law, and the asshole cops who defend it.
6 plus months of investigation, surveillance, and overtime to bust some guy growing more than 6 weed plants, or the flip side, a half assed investigation of some rapists that bullied a girl to the point of suicide. But hey, the RCMP has been cleaning up our streets, to the tune of a 200% increase in “rolling stops”. Congrats on a job well done, ya fucking wankers!!!!!!!!
Need I bring up the stats that NS has the lowest conviction rate for sexual assaults in the country? Wonder why that is? Anything to add, Tim?
It’s not just about the rapists. It’s also about the sadistic little shits who tormented this poor girl for a year and a half. How many of her fellow students who are tweeting supportive comments right now, went out of their way to make her life miserable when she was alive?
What about the school systems whom were aware
india bravo india mike bravo
I guess the cat joke was a little tasteless…
“Every one who wilfully attempts in any manner to obstruct, pervert or defeat the course of justice in a judicial proceeding” Thanks for the quote Bro, it backs up what I said. So how kids and teachers knew and did nothing about the information they had? Good to see you can copy and paste from yourlaws.ca, but I honestly hope you don’t have children.
Next question, do you know of the term perjury? You know, falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth whether in writing or spoken. Now again, how many kids and teachers knew something and did nothing? How many kids were sent the picture and they did nothing and said they had no knowledge of the crime?
Last question, how can you distort the rape of a teenager by quoting public mischief laws?
I am glad that a tragedy like this is getting the full attention that it deserves. Couldn’t agree more with Frenchie’s comment. All too often shit like this gets swept under the rug and dismissed. Did that happen in this case? I don’t know but maybe. It’s worth investigating, a kid is dead.
The boys responsible for this are fortunate that Rehteah’s mother is a compassionate individual cause Anonymous was about ready to release their names to the public. I think Anon is fucking awesome but not sure that it would have been the best move on their part. Still, the boys who know that they are guilty of what they did are no doubt quite worried about their future now.
This is a very sad case and out of respect for the family involved, I do not think this bitch should have been posted. I offer my prayers and condolences to the family in the loss of their beautiful daughter. Other than that, I have no comment.
The fact that it happened is a social issue, the subsequent investigation is absolutely a police issue. I don’t get the bullying. Who the hell bullies a rape victim? What is wrong with people?
Playing devil’s advocate because God abhors my lifestyle choice here, but I do agree with Bro Tim and the OB a bit on this. Same with Ivan’s comments. A lot of this is actually sensationalized through new media exposure, collective behavior and the court of public opinion. The OB wasn’t taking anything away from the victim I don’t think.
Was it tragic? Yes.
Do the little bastards, if what they did was all true, deserve punishment? Yes, if proven so.
Are the cops to blame? Eh, don’t think so.
Should sebastian go fuck himself? Yes.
So, for sebastian: you say the rape didn’t happen but claim Ray Taavel’s death was a hate crime. So we get it. You hate women and ethnic groups. But it’s not like your kind is any better.
yeah, just read this again and it is a stupid, stupid post.
OP, no one is blaming the police for the crime that occurred. To imply that anyone thinks that it’s the police’s fault that this girl was assaulted and bullied is just beyond ridiculous. Do you really think that? This societal issue that you speak of has nothing to do with the police’s investigation.
I have no idea if more could have been done on HRP’s behalf to bring these alleged criminals to justice, but someone saying that there could have been is no way an implication that the police are responsible for what happened to her. Frig off
And sebastian if we’re dealing with facts here with you claiming the rape didn’t happen because we never saw a picture or any evidence then I must point out that Ray would still be alive if he had kept his nose out of other people’s business. Oh well.
Maybe this particular incident just didn’t happen either.
I can say for one that if photos were going around of something like that I would speak up. I just can’t fathom that. Everyone who knew about this and said nothing should be deeply ashamed.
Agreed. The list of people who let this poor kid down does not begin or end with the police ,Tommy.
Defending the police in this just boggles my mind. Ivan you are 100% correct that the list does not begin or end with them. It’s the suggestion that they shouldn’t be on it at all I find so fucking offensive. There are many questions that need to be answered before anyone could lay it at their feet…but to play devil’s advocate for the cops in this situation is disgusting. There are too many loose ends here to assume that they did their best. The fact that someone actually wrote a bitch this soon after this happened defending the police is…fucked. FUCKED.
^ Agree.
I have a terrible feeling that 18 months down the road we may be hearing about the perpetrators being acquitted (assuming charges are even pressed) for many of the same reasons the the public prosecutors have offered for why they did not direct the police to pursue the case. And any defence attorney worth their salt is putting together the grounds for appeal as we speak. Not for the first time here, I hope to hell I’m wrong.
And since we are talking hypotheticals I would say that, if Steubenville is anything to go by, had the 4 actually been charged, the bullying would conceivably have been even worse. Not that it makes the slightest bit of difference. And it’s not playing devil’s advocate to say, that the actions of the police should not be what this is about. It’s about 4 individuals making the conscious choice to rape a girl, recording it, broadcasting the images, and then a larger circle of their acquaintances going out of their way to be cruel to the victim. We can hold reviews and commissions and inquisitions about what the police, or prosecutors or school administrators should or should not have done, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
And we have to settle for that because the one thing that we, as citizens, cannot do, is look into the eyes of the perpetrators, ask them “WHY?” and receive an answer that makes any kind of sense. And that scares the hell out of us.
As it should.
I am rattled. I have six and seven year old daughters. I always hoped that if I taught them to respect themselves I could minimize some of the bullshit I witnessed when I was in High school and trust in them. Now I feel like owning a shotgun and following them around once they turn 13. I feel like moving out of this fucking town but then I remember that this is-like the OP said- a societal problem. That is why this bitch irks me maybe, no one is saying that it is the fault of the police that she died, directly or indirectly. No one thinks a society that blames the victim of rape is because the RCMP is a joke. I hope not. But they are very much involved in this situation. There is absolutely an illegal pic of this underage girl getting raped while vomiting. The fact that there was NO action whatsoever is at the LEAST worthy of suspicion and anger. I guess police apathy to sex crimes in this province is another societal woe for another day.
Yeah, just play some hopscotch, forget about everyone in your peer group seeing you getting raped while black out. Be a sport slugger!
Perfect example of rape culture “why was she there? She should have known better! You can’t expect 14 year olds NOT to rape a drunk chick! That is crazy!”
Fuck you, baby.doll
Avast, where are you and why can’t I cross reference your profile? Dammit!
She wasn’t alone Baby Doll, her friend left her to get more booze. The maggots decided to use that opportunity to gang rape a drunken defenceless child.
I don’t get the bullying thing either. I guess the maggots had some popularity in school circles and kids decided to gain currency with them at the expense of the child. Sad, sad story and another reason I really don’t like people some time.
If found guilty, each of the maggots should have “Child Rapist” tattooed on their foreheads.
It’s only my opinion, nothing more, but I do believe that if an inquiry were held and witnesses were compelled to testify under oath (the whole nine yards – notebooks, files, timelines, who knew what and when) we would find out that the police investigation wasn’t all that it should have been. The four individuals alleged to have been part of the rape were not interviewed by police until 10 months after the rape was reported to police, according to the mother’s recent statements. This doesn’t strike me as being a very vigorous investigative technique.
It has also been suggested by some (not the police themselves) that the investigation was ongoing. Here is a quote from a statement made today on the HRM Police website:
“In light of new and credible information that has recently been brought forward to police, HRM Partners in Policing are reopening the investigation involving Rehtaeh Parsons.”
This would indicate to me that the file had, in fact, been shelved (ie. was no longer being actively pursued). Clearly the investigation had been wrapped up and the police were not going to put any more effort into the file unless something drastic happened (like an alleged rapist presenting himself to authorities and demanding to be arrested and charged). More importantly, the mother’s recent statements indicate that the police had said as much to her and her daughter. It could be argued that this news added to the young woman’s sense that the pain and suffering she was going through was never going to end.
I’m not convinced by arguments that the police were just biding their time and waiting for the right moment to ‘pounce’ after having obtained that crucial piece of evidence that would make their case in court. Apparently, the most damning evidence was in their possession shortly after the incident was reported by the victim and they were certainly aware of the distribution of the photo which clearly falls under the current legal defiinition distribution of child pornography. Now it’s possible that a 15 year old boy, even when confronted by detectives with photographic evidence of his participation in an alleged rape, could be a ‘tough nut to crack’ (Al Capone take note!) but I find that difficult to accept on the face of it. The police also claimed that, even having the picture of the alleged rape in progress, and knowing whose phone camera it was taken with and distributed from, without knowing who actually put his finger on the button to take the picture they were helpless to act on this information. I’ll keep that anemic standard in mind should I ever decide to turn criminal.
The investigation has now been officially “reopened” based on information that the police claim has surfaced in the last few days. It would seem to me that the media storm surrounding this case has maybe done some good. Perhaps, too, the police found it unnerving having Anonymous breathing down their necks and, apparently, using their own investigative tools to uncover more damning evidence. For those who doubt the efficacy of the Anonymous approach, a recent case in Ohio had been shelved by a limp and overprotective (of the boys) law enforcement team, only to be reopened and prosecuted with resulting convictions, based on information obtained and provided by Anonymous.
The police didn’t commit this crime. But perhaps the police weren’t sufficiently convinced, due to their own preconceived notions or lax application of proper behavioural standards to teenage boys, that a crime had been committed.
The ensuing harassment and bullying campaign probably did as much to drive this young woman to end her life as the original rape. We need to have legal penalties for this kind of thing, keeping in mind that we’re dealing with people who can generally hide behind their ‘minor age’ status to protect them from the full force of the law. We seem to be able to put strict conditions on all kinds of offenders. I don’t see why it should be that difficult to impose penalties on little Johnny and little Suzie if they are found guilty of online harassment. You can do all kinds of things to a teenager, short of flogging, that will lead them to see the error of their ways.
Finally, and although I don’t completely disagree with you OB, why is it that when little Johnny grows up to be an armed robber or thieving crackhead or rampaging school shooter, we demand full accountability and personal responsibility from the “scum”, but in this case we are instead dealing with what you termed a “societal problem”? Shouldn’t the same standard be applied to all?
Welcome back Comandante! (stands and applauds). I would guess that, as far as the police were concerned, it was going to be too difficult to make a conviction so they shelved it. Not defending them, just saying that was the reason they didn’t pursue an investigation more aggressively.
I’m with Paulio & Ivan on this one. And I’m sorry but this topic is not something to bitch about. I’m offended it was even put to print. We need to focus on helping this family heal and putting pressure on the justice system to change. Pass the anti-bullying bill. Prevent these little creeps from sharing child porn and laughing about it. Prevent another poor child, could be my child..could be yours…from ending their lives over something that was mean, deliberate, insulting, demeaning, and senseless……that should have been prevented! It sickens me that kids today have no morals. They think it’s cool to demean and belittle and embarass another human being. And they aren’t mature enough to recognize the implications that are devastating not only for the victims but for the familes of the victims, their own families, their friends, their teachers, their communities. The Powers that Be need to stop turning a blind eye. We need to demand it!
If I can add to this….kids have way too much power and are taking full advantage of it. It’s time to take that power back!
Kirk, one can only be charged if they lie under oath and witness statements, if they choose to do so, are not done under oath. No one is compelled to talk to the police. If you don’t like it then get the law changed. I’m just telling you and others what the laws are so you may get an idea of the restrictions there are in investigations and laying of charges. I’ll say it once again, knowing is one thing, proving is a whole other ball game.
Bullying should be investigated by professional and highly educated school councillors who must be trained to possibly eavesdrop on instances. Students should be called from class and confronted individually. If illegal violent or sexual activity is happening the police and the councillors should approach the situation in a manner that allows for fluidity given the specific situation. To put it plainly, school councillors should have the authority to investigate into bullying. It shouldn’t just be students coming to them. With this approach apprehension won’t be the same as one student “ratting” on another student, making recognizing and dealing with instances easier. The councillor intervened on the student.
The criteria for what bullying is would have to be well explained. If the case is serious enough victims and possibly bullies should be sent to different schools, or given extra sensitivity training type homework on top of school work. This is my theory to a practical and feasible improvement to dealing with these cases.
“THAT TRAGIC AND DISTURBING SITUATION”, OR: ON THE ROOTS OF MISOGYNY
“I understand everyone is in a high emotional state but can we stop blaming the police for an issue we as a society helped create? This is a social issue, not a police one.” Appreciator
“misogyny, n. – hatred of women (The Concise Oxford Dictionary)
Whatever the status of the legalities involved, while Appreciator is correct in claiming that this “very tragic and disturbing situation” is not a police issue but rather is social issue, he fails to explain both just what he means by that “social issue” and how, in circular fashion, it was the cause of that “very tragic and disturbing situation”. So one must attempt to dig deeper in order to uncover its roots. What are those roots? They are to be found primarily in the concept of masculinity itself. So, what is that concept of masculinity? What does it mean to be a male in our society?
Lying close to the heart of the concept of masculinity is his resentment against the female. The male is dominated by the female at birth – his mother is the object of his veneration, the embodiment of the good. In his early years his adoration is total and unquestioned but, as he gradually enters the world of self-awareness, he begins to see himself as separate from his mother, as an autonomous agent. What does this entail?
Unlike the female, the male must prove himself, he must establish his autonomous identity. The female, because of the existential relationship of the sexes, does not have this masculine drive to achieve. Like the mother, she is autonomous by virtue of her unique status, her ability to have children. The male, by contrast, must seek his fulfilment elsewhere, by means of individual achievement. However, on the attainment of maturity, he discovers that his sexuality – his biological need for union with the female – places him in the position of supplicant, of the one who must court and please the female in order to gain access to her body. What has happened is, in effect, his position relative to his mother has been reproduced, albeit with the added dimension of sexual intercourse. But the relationship is the same. He still sees himself as the inferior. What is the result?
The result is a deep psychological resentment against the female. He resents, probably unknowingly, his psychological impotence. He resents her existential superiority. But the male must act. He cannot accept this intolerable situation. What is he to do? How can he balance the existential scales?
Given the variations of personality among males – is he generally more aggressive by nature than the average? – and given the opportunity to express that aggression – are there frequent drunken parties which clearly present the opportunity to overcome his resentment of the female? – the three factors of masculinity, personality and opportunity come together resulting in – guess what? – that “tragic and disturbing situation”.
Is there a solution? Probably not. Since any solution must involve the re-definition of masculinity itself, to say nothing of the culture which affords the opportunity to overcome his resentment against the female by aggression, the surprise is that there haven’t been many more instances of that “tragic and disturbing situation”.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
Jesus, MM. Did you type that post while wearing your finest, “lady skin”, suit.
Rape victim’s too often are re-victimized by the police,court system,mental health system,family,friends.. Unfortunately because of lack the supports mentioned too many rape victims (not excluding male rape victims) can also be re-victimized by their own minds and bodies.
MM I agree with your letter.Good one.
MM: That was a fabulous explanation. I have never thought of men’s control issues that way. Sure makes a whole lot of sense though. Thanks for that.
BORU: I see you made it through all the fake posters last night and their mean spiritedness. Good to see you didn’t let it affect you at all!
the layperson doesn’t understand the line between law and order. Law and Order tried to make it clear but i guess they didn’t do a very good job.
I can understand not having enough evidence to charge any of the boys for sexual assault or not being able to prove who took the pictures BUT isn’t the possession and distribution of child pornography illegal in this country? If someone downloads a picture of a naked underage girl engaged in a sexual act they get charged for possession, right? If you send it to someone, you get charged for distribution… can’t you look into internet history records with an internet provider or look on phones and computers to provide evidence? SOMEONE took a picture and sent it to others who sent it to others and so on and so forth.
WHY wasn’t anyone charged with possession or distribution???? I mean, upon her death, this poor girl was still underage, so they couldn’t make the argument that she was of age when the photos were taken.
It’s a societal issue, yes, but it’s also a police issue, and I don’t think those investigating this situation was in any way perfect. Where are the child porn charges? Why did it take 10 months to interview the suspects? Why did they interview them all together? Those are all questions that need answers.
Offended it got put into print? Fuck you. Go live in Uzbekistan then.
Woggy#1
Yes i’m alright.Need coffee though I’m very tired.Going to Tim’s for java.
To address the core ‘social issue’ side of things–a message to any who would sympathize, to the point of inaction where action was due, with the perpetrators of this heinous crime:
http://youtu.be/3sOXN_80ohM
BORU 1014: Good to hear you are okay. When I got up this morning and read all the trolls of both your and my profile I must admit I was a little worried for you, because I know by your posts you are a very sensitive soul and easily hurt. I realize TTFN and Paul got a carried away last night and overly-exuberant with their fake profiles of you and I and I guess we’ll chalk that up to momentum, believe me it really doesn’t bother ME. But I felt hurt for you Boru;their taunting and teasing was uncalled for. Nevertheless, I do feel that the least they could do is stand up like an adult and apologize to you for trolling you the way they did last night. But I doubt they will. They are hiding away today, probably shame faced, and hoping all will be forgotten. Sad. TT and Paul, you two need to take responsibility for your mean comments to Boru. Shame on you both. PS: Glad to hear you are doing ok. Enjoy that coffee! 🙂
I am in favor of this discussion whether you have a viewpoint such as brotim or one more similar to Furious Styles but I think you should leave your comment board related drama for other threads and allow the discussion to continue, respectfully. Thank-you.
Agreed with Hoist. I realize I’m setting myself up as a colossal hypocrite since I have vigorously engaged in both wogbashing, and fake profile trolling. But this is a serious bitch and it is generating intelligent and diverse commentary.
Flame away.
You’re absolutely right, Hoist!
I have a Facebook friend who is trying to be “provocative” with statements about how “liberals” complained about the government wanting to have wider powers to online spy, but support Anonymous, as if the two are completely different. One is a government who is accountable(or, *should* be), and the other a “hackivist group”. And Anonymous isn’t releasing the boys’ names. This would cause a mistrial and maybe even vigilante justice. As much as we talk tough about what we would like to do to the boys who raped her, I think we can agree the system should take care of this(though they needed a helping hand to get started!).
One thing I haven’t heard during the “teach your boys to not rape, instead if teaching girls how to not get raped” repeating, is that at least half of the people from her school/peer group that made her take her own life were females. I would like to see the males and females who shared the photos(legally child porn) charged somehow, or held accountable for their part in this shitty mess.
Turns out I know a cousin if the poor girl. Made the whole shitty mess *that much* more real and sad. I couldn’t imagine my niece or nephew being treated like this and seeing their only way out as taking their own life.
Just fucking sad.
p
I have boys who I will always teach to respect women but that’s scary to think what MM is saying could over rule nurture. I just pray that we show them good examples.
I’m so sorry for the family and this child who is gone from this world too soon.
As much as I don’t want to play the blame game I’m glad this is getting so much media coverage because its making families talk!
I agree with Hoist as well.This topic is too sensitive,too important to me, to trivialize it. It should be given the respect it deserves.At the risk of sounding hypocritical as well.
Our so called Justice Minister Landry should resign, another screw up from this putz.
Dexter attended the funeral, has he no shame?
Anonymous should out the 4 dirt bags, it seems all the kids at Cole Harbour already know who they are.
Not to make this any more political (than it already is perhaps?) but Marilyn Moore, Ross Landry and Darrell Dexter are trying very hard to frame Nova Scotians’ feelings on the Rehtaeh Parsons case as “emotional”, not angry. I’m fucking angry.
They seem to believe hiring a coordinator and conducting an internal government review are the actions we need to prevent rape, sexual abuse, and “bullying” in the future.
I’m fucking angry about that too.
I sincerely believe that without Anonymous’ voice in this matter, we wouldn’t have the “response” we have gotten from government and officials thus far. Let us all hope this is only the tepid beginnings as far as actions are concerned, and that we can have a real independent review of all involved in the bungling of this case.
From Peer group > School Board > Police > Justice System > Government > Society in general — Everyone has a part to play, and I for one hope it creates real lasting change, regardless of MM’s narrow and scholarly explanation of rape culture.
PK and Paulio, I don’t know why charges haven’t been laid for possession and/or distribution of child porn. The only thing I can do is speculate. For those who had the pics and erased them because they didn’t want them, there wouldn’t be charges as they received the pics without knowing what they were. Those who passed them on definitely could and should be. As to why they didn’t, it could be in order to catch the perpetrators, in other words let the little go, hopefully for the moment, in order to get the big fish. The pics were already out there and you know as well as I do, once something is in cyberspace it is pretty well impossible to get it back. Hopefully the new information will garner enough evidence to nail the perpetrators. The good thing, as if there is any good, is that it appears at least one person there has become so scared he is willing to spill his guts. But the whole thing needs to be reviewed and let the chips fall where they may from the police, the schools, mental health, etc.
What is galling is the politicians attending the funeral and pretending to care. Well DD and company it’s a little too late to say you care.
I tend to doubt the sincerity of any party’s leader who would attend such a highly-charged and tragic event. I know that *now* there is probably sincere sadness from most of them, but surely someone in their office would tell them “Mr Premier, you risk looking like an opportunist if you go to this funeral given the public perception the people under you dropped the ball when the thing happened”.
If they showed up to *my* kid’s funeral, and I felt they were just there for the photo-op with the family and as some part of approval-building, it would be hard hard not to tell them to hit the road.
Not knowing the “inner workings” of the police/premier/whatevs during this, I can only go on what *I* feel and think.
As horrible as the rape was, I hope the opportunity is taken to address boys AND GIRLS that what they did contributed to this, and if they are so cold as to not care, then fuck it: charge who they can regardless of gender, and show people who might share this type of photo to fuck with a girl’s life that they can be legally screwed for it.
p
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/a-…
We’re told to ask for a dog owner’s permission before we pet their dog.People feel it’s perfectly fine to touch a child’s head,hand,nose without the child’s consent/permission.
What message are we sending our children about their body ?
Not sure I see the connection between granny pinching lil Mortimer’s cheeks without asking and rape, boru. Just can’t see it.
Anywho, I think blaming DD for attending is politically opportunistic. Not sure how this goes any higher than Ross Landry politically, and have been hearing people say that because his riding is Cole Harbour that it was a conspiracy orchestrated by DD to avoid bad press. I think he would have been flamed harder for not attending, and is just as disgusted as anyone else. That being said I can’t begrudge anyone for seeing it differently either.
80’s in no way do I think that I can’t parent my child. It is a scary thought to imagine that some people have predispositions because of hormones. There’s a lot of good people who have done very wrong things and have good parents who raised them right. I’m just frightened that no matter what you do you have to let them go into a world that things like this happen. I know they will be good boys, men and adults some day.
I guess I unfortunately look on all sides sometimes and I wonder what is going on in the homes of those boys as well. And all the homes of all those kids who knew what happened and did nothing. How on earth does over half of the school see this picture and not one child thought it was wrong and told their parents or teachers? How can that many parents have raised their children to not have the brains or compassion to do anything? That’s a lot of parents!
It’s just overwhelming the amount of people that could have stopped this or helped and didn’t.
And who walks around “touching a (stranger) child’s nose”, FuriousS?
I lived most of my adult life out of NS, so I don’t see my feelings on politicians attending as taking an easy shot at the premier. I just think there are other ways for politicians to show their empathy for the family than photo-ops. Making sure everyone involved gets looked at/charged would be a start, as would going into schools and telling the whole student body they play a part in tragedies like this when they actively/passively share the resulting rape photos, harrass the girl in any way, or keep their mouths shut when they know some injustice is being done to a fellow student.
A lot of people had a hand on this tragedy.
p
Exactly Real Chick. Why didn’t the kids that received the picture(s) tell anybody and where were her friends to try and help her? What people aren’t saying or are afraid to say is that there are kids out there (both male and female) who freely pass on sexually explicit pictures of themselves. To them this sort of activity (picture sharing) is a game and they do not understand the implications of doing something so stupid like this. But then I’m not surprised as some parents do the same thing.
I tend think Monsieuer tends to insult men in general with his treatise on masculine attitudes towards women. While I do believe boys/men do tend to have certain dispositions such as aggressive play, risky behavior, etc. or display more of it than girls, they’re certainly not set for life to be that way. The role of parents, extended family, friends, acquaintences play a huge role in how a boy’s psychology is molded, good or bad.
In the case of the Cole Harbour girl, you’re dealing with booze and pack mentality. They knew what they wanted and they went for strength in numbers. It’s a form of cowardice. Most boys at that age like to project the persona of “badass” hence the distribution of the photo. “Look what I did, aren’t I dangerous?”. We can talk about social media, media in general, thug culture and they may play a role but it really just boils down to the personal weaknesses of the individuals in questions.
Girls played a part in the subsequent bullying as well which displays an ugly part of human nature. A lot of social animals whether it be primates, cetaceans or canines will turn on the weak or wounded to maintain the strength of the group. I like to think people have evolved enough to contain that instinct.
We can search for the roots of human nature or scour society for the reasons this awful, awful thing happened but IMO it comes down to individual choices. I have never considered sexually assaulting a woman, ever. Not at prepubescence, late teens, never. Those boys made a reckless, entirely immoral decision period. Those that carried on the bullying made a choice to be one of the crowd and find security in numbers, be part of a group of cowards that singled out a person because of their vulnerability. That was their choice.
I think I would put more faith in a parent’s admitted uncertainty about their parenting than in threats to emasculate their offspring for committing a crime, no matter how heinous.
Not a slap at you, 80’s – anger is my predominant emotion over this issue as well. But as we are constantly told, rape is not about sex, it’s about power. Emasculation as prevention?, cure?, justice?. Nope, it’s vengeance, pure and primal. And I applaud MamaBear for articulating that unspoken fear of parents. The flip side to “How do I protect my child from monsters?” is “How do I prevent my child from becoming one?”
As far as Dexter attending the funeral is concerned, it’s a no win situation. His detractors would lambast him, whatever decision he made.
Excellent post Reg…and Dartmouthy, I really appreciated that link…I am going to try posting postive social examples, links, etc on my fb to try to make the younger people I know aware of better choices/other options. My teenage neice is from EP so, like Paulio, this horrible event hit really close to home for me–my neice is a good kid, and her friends, male and female, are good kids…but they’re kids. They need support and guidance. My neice’s parents are wonderful, really good parents; but Reg I am especialy with you on this one–we all have a role in teaching, supporting, and providing clear, non-harmful examples to the youth in our respective lives. Dartmouthy I’ll be reposting that link-many thanks again.
Question: Whatever happened to Steinbeck’s “Of Mice and Men” being an integral part of the grade 10 curriculum? Seriously.
Big thanks to the good people that speak up (especially you guys here)…hearing compassion that is real and opinions that are intelligent does make a difference for those who suffer.
I didn’t make my point clear.
I was attempting to say that we can begin to teach our toddlers about consent by telling them they shouldn’t think they can touch others in anyway without consent. Not an arm, a hand,a nose.
Thanks for posting Dartmouthy
Jesus, Tim. Really? Maybe Dexter should have gone golfing, gone on vacation, or maybe just said he was too busy. Cause the WORLD, that seems to have an avid interest in this case, sure wouldn’t be judging his absence. Did you attend the funeral, Tim?
Please don’t use my real name.
——-
The flip side to “How do I protect my child from monsters?” is “How do I prevent my child from becoming one?”
——-
We only ever hear from the parents of the abused. not the parents of the abusers. Even though we always hear after these horrible events “It is all taught in the home/where were the parents?”, there are plenty of kids who grow up from shitty home lives/shitty parents to be great members of society. And there are also no doubt kids who grow up in stereotypical “normal” family lives who become monsters.
I have no hard science to back this up, admittedly.
I think it’s always easy in hindsight to draw conclusions about a criminals formative years, and when they don’t fit the “shitty home life” stereotype, “experts” find something (still in hindsight) that explains it.
My point, I think, is that bad people come from all walks of life and backgrounds, and while a shitty childhood would *seem* to predetermine someone(as conversely, a “perfect” formative period would), the fact is PEOPLE MAKE CHOICES. I believe we are a product of our surroundings, but that sometimes things are what they are because people are not if:and robots that always act predictably.
Good convo, everyone!
SheSang- let’s go for a coffee soon. I miss seeing you!
p
Sorry Mr. Won’t happen again. 🙂
No, SHITD, I did not attend. I do not know her or her family. To me funerals are for friends and family. For those who personally knew the deceased. To say you cared for, loved or whatever someone you never met is disingenuous. You can say you are sad or whatever but really it is not personal to you. It’s like saying you know what someone is going through when you really don’t have a clue because you didn’t go through it.
Check yer Fbook box, SheSang!
xo
p
Anybody else tired of hearing/reading about the whole situation already?
That’s pretty much guaranteed to rile people up, right Adam/Donarius/Iron Biscuit?
lols
p
If it does, it does.
Hay Anonymous – want to hold a truly symbolic protest? Hold it outside the High School that the victim, perpetrators, participants and bystanders all attended. During school hours.
” It’s like saying you know what someone is going through when you really don’t have a clue because you didn’t go through it.”
Brotim is right
I feel the appropriate thing to say is how badly I feel they are going through what they are.To say you know how it feels would be condescending and hypocritical to them.
Mamma I apologize, I understand where you are coming from and I can’t say I haven’t had the same fears of “how do I make sure my kid doesn’t grow up to be an asshole”? We can teach them but we can’t control their every action. I was really going for mm, just indirectly so he wouldn’t assault my eyes with more bullshut and baloney.
Also I’d like to commend EVERYONE on keeping this thread fairly focused and respectful with very good thought provoking points of view. I really thought it would be a shit-show xx
All the bleeding heart cry baby liberals giving ol’ Biscuit a thumbs down for not participating in their lame collective behavior and mob mentality. Go back to Springfield, lefties!
Thank you Sheila, I’ll write that off to you drunk posting again.
Boomy, we of all people must not start the paranoid state. I only said that earlier for Boru’s sake. I feel so sorry for her now, she really is a nut.
I find it hard not to judge a book by its cover when I see pics like this…but I gotta say this generation of young folks has some serious shit to weed out:
http://imgur.com/a/gKHLE
If she was drunk she wasn’t able to actually consent. Even IF she had’ve said yes, she was still unable to consent and it’s rape.
Ignore biscuit — if it isn’t an aboriginal person or a Muslim who has suffered a tragedy, it doesn’t count.
Sorry, bud, but if this was an aboriginal or Muslim girl that was raped, bullies and committed suicide rather than a white girl, you’d be all over this shit.
Being photographed naked, without consent, is a form of sexual assault as well PK.
okay people, common assault or battery as it’s known in the states, is the touching in any way, without the consent of the touchee. the deeper truth here is that if i walked up to antone on the street, touched them, even gently on the arm or shoulder, to get their attention, i could actually be charged. very few cases have ever been taken to court tho, because it would tiw them up for the next century or so. but seriously, if this girl even had sex, not raped, it still constitutes assault, of a sexual nature.
the picture/s are another thing here too, the violated her privacy rights by showing them to even one person, and not having her sign a waiver to do so.
but still, what happened, should never have even been done, and the ones responsible should be nailed, as well as any who viewed or saw the picture.s. they must have know that this girl was too young, drunk, or in some sort of mind, that she didn’t know what was going on. what the hell about the date rape drugs, you know the ones, the ruthies or roofies or whatever you call them.
how do w know that she didn’t have some in her system at the time. which would be another crime to add to their list. i feel for the dad here, knowing what happened and the aftermath, i would search for justice til hell froze over, for a million years, til i got it for my baby.
“Being photographed naked, without consent, is a form of sexual assault as well PK.”
In this case it’s also child porn.The poor thing was only 15.at the time.
Boru wanted to touch me. She also offered me money. I said no, but she pretended not to hear. The whole situation made me feel pretty uncomfortable.
Now is the time to come forward if anyone has had a similar experience. We can’t let her get away with this again.
Mr you think your funny..I would agree, you have your moments.
Thanks for the link, Hoist. A picture truly is worth a 1000 words, right now most of them profane and probably libelous. The masked faces and misspelled signs speak for themselves.
Fuck.
The Captain is scared. By the time he retires, this will be the generation ruling the world.
Even if the kids spell checked their signs, it shows some of them are still considering this something the dead girl is doing to them.
Shows how deeply some people can be committed to WRONG.
p
*At least it shows that young people can be committed to social activism, engaged with current events and not ready to blindly accept what the mainstream media tells them.*
Nope, facetious cynicism just doesn’t cut it this time. >: (
These spackers have nothing to contribute to society but shaken babies, self-detonating methlabs and modelling the Signature line of colostomy bags from the Jimmy Melvin Collection.
ok, I can be a mean, callous SOB at times but some of the posts on this board make me ashamed. I had to stop reading midway and will absolutely not revisit this one. Period.
Man, I thought I was fucked up but some of you are so far in left field, you could order a pretzel.
UNPACKING THE CONCEPT OF MISOGYNY: THE HEGEMONIC FEMALE
“hegemonic, a. – ruling, supreme” (The Concise Oxford Dictionary)
On reading my “That Tragic & Disturbing Situation” or: The Roots of Misogyny” (04/13, 11:41AM) readers will have learned that the legalities of the issue of gang rape, independently of conclusive empirical evidence one way or the other, amount to little more than empty speculation. Rather, the central issue was that of the concept of misogyny itself. We learned that it appeared to be explicable only in terms of male resentment against the female as a result of her controlling the sexual relationship to which the male, simply by virtue of the fact that he was a male, was unavoidably committed. “No means no!” she confidently asserts. “You must have my consent, without which there shall be no sexual intercourse. You must do as I say.” The consequence was his resentment of the controlling female – originally his mother but now his prospective partner in sexual intercourse – gave rise to his misogyny, the default position which, relative to the variables of personality and opportunity, may or may not result in gang (or individual) rape. However, the concept of misogyny itself was under-analyzed. It requires further, more sophisticated treatment. It needs to be, as we say in philosophy, “unpacked”.
There are differing levels of misogyny. It doesn’t come in equal strengths. Reg Lecrisp, for example (04/0411:51AM), confounded the intent my post, thinking I was referring to all males equally, but that was not the case. I was referring only to the upper end of the spectrum, those who just entertain misogynistic urgings but act on them. Indeed some, like Lecrisp claim to be free of such emotions but simply claiming to be be unaware of them is not sufficient. As with all males, LeCrisp is necessarily aware of the female as “the Other” (as they say in French philosophy) and the act of such awareness constitutes the seedbed, if not the overt actuality, of misogyny. Call it low-level or back-burner misogyny.
At the middle level are to be found religious males. They correctly see the female – particularly the beautiful female – as giving rise to confusion in the male. His mind disintegrates. He knows that he is putty in her hands. But it is more than just that. He also knows that his contemplation of the female in inextricably connected with his sexual yearning for her body. She is the source of his temptation. She is a Jezebel. In the process of mental disintegration, the religious male loses his sense of “self”, what he would call his “soul” and his soul is beyond measurable worth. That, by the way, is the reason that the Catholic Church rejects the induction of female priests. Their perceived sexuality by the male destroys the purity of the priestly calling.
At the upper end of the spectrum of misogyny is the male who, as previously indicated, combines a heated resentment of the female together with both a naturally more aggressive sort of character – violent action in other areas are not unknown to him – and the occasion, those drunken youthful parties – in order to put his resentful feelings of the female into action. Given the current decline in the usual support systems together with ideology of maximizing autonomy at the expense of the communal good, the wonder is that more of those “tragic and disturbing situations” don’t occur.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!