Darrell Dixon wants downtown Dartmouth to aim higher—about 23 storeys high—in search of its long-sought population boost. City planners are considering changes in downtown Dartmouth zoning laws that would allow Dixon to build higher than the current 70-foot height restrictions on buildings in the area. Dixon says the three residential buildings—at 23, 14 and seven storeys—he wants to build behind the Greenvale School condo project and along Irishtown Road (the recently renamed Pine Street extension) would include both rental and condo units. High-density high-rises are the key to boosting the downtown’s stagnant population, he argues.
But Dartmouth residents think Dixon’s proposal for a 23-storey tower is just dense. At a public meeting to discuss the zoning changes Monday, citizens raised a slew of complaints, most regarding the literal and figurative shadow such a building would cast over the downtown area. Several pointed out that the apartment Goliath would stand only 150 feet from single-family residences and that its sleek, modern design was hardly in keeping with the heritage-heavy feel of the area.
City planner Mitch Dickey and councillor Bill Karstens said the city would take these complaints into consideration and the proposed height of the buildings would come in for serious debate. If Dixon’s going to touch the sky in downtown Dartmouth, he has a lot more convincing to do.
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This article appears in Feb 18-24, 2010.
So why does he have a ‘For Sale’ sign on one of the lots ??
The lot where he can build 48 units under the existing plan but now wants HRM to change the plan so he can build a 14 storey property.
I am confused.
BTW – did you speak at the meeting ?
I’m 100% for old heritage buildings, there are quality heritage buildings all over downtown Halifax and even some in Dartmouth, but Nova Scotians need to get it together and stop fearing change. For anyone’s who’s ever been to downtown Dartmouth, they would agree that it’s just as scary in the day time as it is in the night. There’s no one around. Maybe Dartmouth would become a little more credible instead of standing under Halifax’s shadow with these changes. I don’t mind Dartmouth, I like Halifax better, but I don’t go to Dartmouth that much, there’s no reason to go. Maybe this would give us Haligonians more of a reason to venture over to the darkside!
While I would like for something to go in this space to replace the current gravel parking lot, I don’t see a 23 storey high-rise as being the right idea. It’s not that I fear change, it’s that I think a well planned neighborhood should have some sense of cohesiveness – something that this plan doesn’t really offer.
The Heritage advocates need to seriously think about what they are creating by decrying every new development with a hint of modern architecture as “not fitting in”. Go to the HRM website and look at the proposals for the Ochterloney St side — about as ugly a faux-Victorian as you will find anywhere, but short — and the Pine St side as also illustrated there. There is no comparison which looks better, and it isn’t the faux-Victorian with its styrofoam cornices.
The worst part is that every single time that a developer comes up with a plan that compromises on design (i.e.: “faux-Victorian” as Bo put it) the Trust puts out the Facadism argument.
Of the three developments proposed, the two that are to be developed on either side of the old Greenvale School are the most viable of the developments proposed. They make sense, they fit in with the “aesthetic”, but they’ll never be developed because it’ll never get past the Heritage Trust, whose motto is “keep normal people in the suburbs, and let the old folks live in the city core as it withers away and dies”.
Dr Fever, if you have walked Alderney Drive at Queen Sq. or the library on a windy, rainy day you will have an inkling of what awaits you if the 14 and 23 storey buildings come to fruition. A nightmare in the fall and the spring for pedestrians and adjacent property owners.
A more comprehensive plan for downtown Dartmout is required and HRM needs to stop looking at empty parcels and look at the area from Pine Street to the waterfront. Some of the properties downtown are fire traps.
As evidenced by the fire on new year’s eve in the area, Joeblow. I have walked that area during a rain storm, during a snow storm, so on and so forth. The wind argument to me is a bit of a load. I have no issue with it, and a building can be designed to buffer it.
I agree that a comprehensive plan needs to be in place; but let’s not quash those with ambition. From what I’ve understood though, the “comprehensive plan” hasn’t worked for 30 years, and will continue to do nothing. Regardless of whether or not it’ll generate a wind tunnel or not should not be a factor. At least somebody wants to do do something.
I walked the downtown Portland area today. I was thinking the entire time, what is the Heritage Trust’s issue with developments that aren’t keeping with the “aesthetic” of the area? I mean, there’s a scattering of old, dilapidated Victorian homes/shitholes, and there’s a fill of early 70’s brick buildings. I think they’re talking about the the one or two well kept Victorian buildings that house lawyers, no less.
Obviously people from Halifax are misinformed as to the hussle & bustle of Dartmouth, specifically around Alderney Landing and along Portland Street. Granted, less traffic in the Winter but when it’s warm it is buzzing with people. I’m there almost everyday and can say that in spite of the fear some people feel, usually by people from Halifax, their fear is misplaced. Crime is far less than on, say, Spring Garden Road. I am for preserving older neighbourhoods. I am also for blending new into existing old. My main complaint is the lack of thought given by planners to parking and especially traffic flow.
23 Stories too tall? What drugs are these people ingesting!?
That lot has been vacant my whole life and this project, along with the Kings Wharf project, are part of the shot in the arm Dartmouth desperately needs.
I didn’t even hear about this meeting or I would have been there…
http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case15781De…
These buildings look awfully nice to me!
Especially when it comes to daylighting part of the canal and closing off Pine Street Extension… both great ideas that could be funded with help from this project. Why are people so opposed to development!?
dartmouthy – you must be about 15 years old because ” That lot has been vacant my whole life” had a bowling alley, restaurant and bar on it well into the 1990’s until Sobey’s bought it at a ridiculous price in an attempt to stop Superstore from locating a grocery store on the lot.
I think that takes care of the issue of your knowledge of Dartmouth.
Dr Fever – the comprehensive plan hasn’t worked for several reasons. One may well be the sad history of Admiralty place from 30 years ago when the idea of the offshore boom was it would cause people to flock to metro. The developer of Admiralty Place went bust and the units were slowly sold over several years at prices lower than originally planned, despite misleading ads in the Herald showing the ferry cruising in to a dock a few steps from the condos.
The next busted development was the medical centre, now the home of federal civil servants for just a few more years until they all move into a nice new shiny tower at BIO.
The doctors in the medical centre lost a fortune and were left with large income tax bills.
Queen Square was also a bust until fed and provincial departments took space.
If anyone believes Kings Wharf will be viable at a price tag of $500 million then I suggest they seek medical treatment.
The 23 storey deal is expensive and despite what Mr Dixon says about a tight market for Class A buildings you have to wonder who will be willing to pay the rents required to make the project a go.
Time has passed us by, downtown Dartmouth will change very slowly.
Realism usually trumps the dreamers, in my time in metro that has mostly been the experience.
HRM is only concerned with downtown Halifax, the call for office space for HRM in 2009 specifically called for bids from landlords in the downtown core of Halifax. HRM cannot afford the rents needed for new construction, see the Turner Drake report in a past issue of The Coast, and the Feds and Province are not about to pay the rates for new office space.
Call me when construction starts, if I am still alive.
Hi Joeblow,
Wow what a pleasure it is to read your post. Your attitude pretty well takes care of any credibility you had in my eyes – not that I’m saying you had any to begin with.
I forgot about Beazleys – I was about 15 when it was bulldozed give or take. 15 years is an awfully long time for prime real estate to lay vacant like a bombed out waste land in the middle of a city, don’t you think? Well not for Dartmouth – the lot off off King Street/Church Street really has been vacant all of my life, since the early 70s when they were going to build something there, that never got started. And the lot has been vacant ever since. Is this what you propose for Prince Albert Road? lol. Putz.
HRM cannot afford to pass by development opportunities when they come to fruition… they need the tax base. Rental properties are at a premium Joe Blow – or maybe you haven’t been around long enough to realize that, I’m not sure. Have you looked for an apartment in an apartment block in Downtown Dartmouth lately? You’ve got two choices – seacoast towesr, or One Oak, though thats quite a bit farther away. There’s Maplehurst… thats about it.
The world is full of obfuscaters, and those who wish to be the devils advocate. Yes people like you Joe Blow are a dime a dozen, and if it works for you, this being an asshole thing you’ve got going, all the power to you.
Luckily there are still citizens who haven’t given into your lowest common denominator way of thinking Joe Blow, who are still positive about things happening in Dartmouth, who haven’t written it off. Who have the reasoning power to realize you can have an apartment building and a single family house within 200 feet of each other and the sky isn’t going to fall – people who have been outside of Halifax before that is. Otherwise you would never know that was possible, would you Joe? lol
I agree entirely with you JB. The “plan” hasn’t worked for 30 years, and it shows. I also agree that the buildings as planned will never see the light of day. However, what I hope for is to see something. Be it a building, or a proper downtown core for Dartmouth, as opposed to something that resembles Antigonish’s Main street.
It’ll take a while, but it’ll turn around. We just need the boomers to die off.
dartmouthy- Well that was nice that you remembered the bowling alley.
Here is a test for you. Name one city you have visited for each year of your life and one must be from each continent.
Halifax and Dartmouth are not cities, they are small towns. Tell the readers of the great architecture you saw or what you thought made the place a great city or just an above average city and tell us what worked and what didn’t work.
The lot at King/Church belongs to some old guy from Toronto who first purchased a parcel over 40 years ago. He has been able, as of right, to build an 84 unit development since the 2000 plan. If HRM had expropriated the land and called for proposals you would now see an $8-10 million development with substantial annual payback rather than the miniscule taxes now being paid. People living there and spending in the area. Maybe even having kids and helping reverse the decline in the school population.
The lot behind Royal Bank has had several tire kickers but the shale disposal is an issue as is the cost and marketability of any project.
I don’t think you know much about Dartmouth, the history of devlopment in the former town, the developers, the demographics or the economics of development. I invite you to prove me wrong.
Joe when your developer friend gets off his ass and gives me a 30 story building with a balcony and a view and a pool – rental or condo – then you can sign me up. With a bigger project usually comes a smaller price per square foot. Time for obstructionists like you to get the hell out of the way so that there are more options available, and so we will have more than one measley little development to choose from.
dartmouthy – the higher you live the higher the sale/rental cost.
Cost of construction has little relationship to sale/rental cost.
Kings Wharf has a unit for sale at $370 a sq ft because of the view, no chance of another building blocking the view and they think the market will pay the price.
The developer doesn’t take the cost of his property and add a fixed percentage, he sells at whatever price he thinks you will pay. With low interest rates builders are milking the market, if mortgage rates rise to 8% you will see significant market resistance to present prices.
Well it has been approved! Yay. On to the design considerations. Another big win for Dartmouth!