I’m 30 years old. I have a masters degree. I’ve probably served you eggs on a Sunday morning. This wasn’t part of the vision. But somehow, it’s where I ended up.
Nine years ago, I graduated with all the sense of optimism and invincibility befitting a new graduate, led by ego, searching for that perfect job. One year in, my employment prospects were nil and since I was still fascinated by the world of research and exploration, I decided to do my masters, channelling my passion toward something “productive.” Seemed like a good choice at the time. I was awarded a full fellowship which was lucky considering the undergrad loans still weighing me down. Ironically, I figured getting my masters degree was the only way to pay back those loans. Did I mention I am still paying them off?
Hoping the pursuit of education would broaden my horizons and open new doors, I was, and still am, disappointed to find out that it truly did the opposite. A masters creates a sense of tunnel vision—chapters, thesis, research, arguments, late nights, critic after critic until the work you started isn’t even really yours to begin with.
Though I was successful in earning my degree, I left school feeling so beaten down, a side effect of the world of academia they don’t often advertize. I was restless and confused and so far from ready for work; ironic, considering the purpose of my educational endeavour.
My mind was so closed off—I needed a way to re-discover my own thoughts. My partner and I went travelling. Though not my first trip abroad, this is the trip that started to change everything. Low on funds, we chose to use World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms. Travelling this way connects you to people and places in wonderful ways. Getting my hands dirty (literally) after the stuffy world of academia was exactly what I needed to do. One thing is for sure: Those months of adventure were significantly more valuable than the five and a half years of higher education—and quite a bit cheaper.
My travel companion is now my husband and to this day, we are avid gardeners. We were fortunate to find a place outside the city, with land enough to grow food. The dream of self-sufficiency is one I hold onto and work toward daily, especially after seeing what the alternative is.
We came back to Halifax and sadly, I was faced with the same dilemma as when I left. Application after application, resume after resume. The same two answers kept repeating themselves: you are overqualified or you don’t have enough experience. I took what I could get: Skill-building in the non-profit sector, lots of volunteer positions. Unable to gain the experience I needed due to lack of jobs, I hit a wall in my job hunt.
I found myself back in the hospitality industry, the industry I had used to support myself while going through school. I did well, multiple promotions in a few short years. Oh right, and 55 hours a week, no overtime for about the same hourly pay I made at Dairy Queen when I was 15. When I had to start rolling change to pay for my gas to get work and prepare myself for the inevitable overdraft every month, I realized I had taken a serious wrong turn somewhere.
So here I am, 30 years old, and back to doing what I did when I was 19. Serving is still more money than I’ve made at any other job I’ve had. (The things they don’t tell you on career day.) Applying for jobs is a daily part of my life, though it’s almost become robotic. I used to get excited about each individual application and resume, waiting in vain for responses that never came. I have redone my resume multiple times, had it reviewed by an employment counsellor and an HR professional. Still nothing.
I think about going west all the time. Reading David Flemming’s Voice of the City, “Saying Farewell to Nova Scotia for a Reason” (December 12, 2013), inspired this reflection. I have been fighting so hard against leaving. I am from Ontario and I have lived in Nova Scotia for 12 years. I love it, I love the pace, the beauty, the friendliness, the fact that you are judged for who you are and not what you do. Nova Scotia is my home. To undo everything I have built in these past 12 years would be heartbreaking. Sadly, I am running out of options.
Heather Boucherwas born in Ontario and moved to Nova Scotia in 2001. She received her Master of Arts at Acadia University in 2007. She can usually be found in her garden, on a hiking trail or working on her house.
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This article appears in Feb 6-12, 2014.
Join the club, lady. This province is a fuckhole and the employers are cheaper than dirt. MAKES ME SICK~!
The Halifax job market is difficult to get into straight out of school, but easier if you’ve already got a bit of experience in whatever field you’re working in. Getting that experience might mean putting in a few years in a larger population centre. A friend of mine says, “Halifax is a great place to come back to, but it’s an awful place to have never left.”
Great read Heather- Thanks.
There’s hundreds if not thousands of amazing, talented underemployed or unemployed people just like you all over this fine city. It appears this big downtown and HRM development vision has created a lot of holes, tons of promises and a false sense that everyone they’ve pushed out over the past thirty years is going to rush back waving their arms and running on the beach.
Keep up the hunting, it’s tough process and it will happen for you, just maybe not here.
-same boat
That first sentence: “I have a masters degree and I’m serving eggs” is almost a cliche these days. It’s certainly not a Halifax-specific situation. It’s the new North America reality.
Just to put things in perspective: Halifax’s unemployment rate is lower than Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver. (In December, Toronto’s was 10.1 percent, and the GTA was 8.8 percent, compared to Halifax’s 6.6.)
More jobs in Halifax are full-time, too, compared to those cities, (though that’s changing). The youth unemployment rate is comparable, despite all the media hype, and median incomes are about the same.
Most of my well-educated friends in Toronto/Vancouver can relate to your story: They’ve either faced layoffs, or unemployment, or are freelance/contractors out of necessity, not desire. Many who do have jobs face brutally poor salaries. They’ve applied for dozens of jobs with barely a hint of employer interest. Many have gone back to the service sector in their 30s just to pay their exorbitant rents. This is life for a lot of people with your kind of education and background (it’s my background too, so not criticizing!), and it doesn’t matter where you live.
To be honest, I’m a bit tired of all this negativity out of Halifax. It’s self-reinforcing. Do we need to read another lament every two months? You say that Fleming’s piece made you think about leaving–this is the thing. People are leaving due to the negative perceptions that are out of line with reality. It’s a lemming situation. Our own defeatist attitude is biting us on the ass.
Haligonians talk endlessly about how hard it is, how there’s no future, but they demonstrate little understanding of context–take it from someone who’s lived in five cities in four provinces in the past decade: it’s the same everywhere (except Alberta, of course. It is noticeably easier there). Thing is, in Nova Scotia, if someone can’t find a job, they automatically blame the city or the province. The same person might have just as hard a time in Ontario or B.C., but there, they don’t default to blaming their environment.
By all means, if you need a change of scene, go for it. if there’s something enticing about a different province or city, give it a shot. But be aware in advance that moving to one of the country’s bigger cities is not at all guaranteed to open up your employment prospects.
Quite frankly, my advice to young people leaving high school these days would be to pursue a trade, not a degree, especially an Arts degree. Failing that, go into dentistry.
Before I moved to Montreal last year I had a job interview in Halifax at a bowling alley for little above minimum wage. The employer told me straight up that she received over 50 applicants in one day for the job. I didn’t get the job. Things have been better after moving. Your experience may vary.
I don’t remember ever being told a degree would lead to a job.
I’d suggest that the subject track down whom ever told her that a degree, a masters degree, and especially a masters degree in liberal arts would be useful ever, anywhere, outside of a university, and beat them with a sock full of pennies.
Except that person has already sucked too much out of the subjects life.
And to cut off the argument “A MA (or BA, for that matter) isn’t about getting a job, its about education” I say: you are absolutely correct. But the subject isn’t “bitching” about not getting an education, but about not getting a job.
The job market in mind numbing. We have all heard stories of people who are actually (perfectly) qualified for jobs that don’t get them…. only to find out someone’s brother got it or “Shirley’s sister “needed” a job…..” My only point is that, the most satisfied people I know are people who, rather than look for a job, make something and sell it. At 19, a painter once told me, “So you want to be an artist? Well, you will never get rich but you will be really happy”. 33 years later, …. he’s right. I don’t think it’s what city you end up in. They all have an up side and a down side. It’s whether you can create your own job in the city or town of (your) choice. Now with Kickstarter, all you need is a good idea.
I’m back in Ontario myself. Left Halifax/Dartmouth in October 2012 after 12 years there. It broke my heart. I still think about it often and haven’t even had the opportunity to get back for a visit. I never had the education you had, but as someone who held on tight to a retail job that I loved at first, then loathed, and now accept comfortably, I found my own options incredibly limited when my employment was threatened. I’m luckily financially stable with a salary and benefits at this same job, but I had to make the move because the only other option was to find myself unemployed in NS. As a manager of the store, the amount of resumes I saw DAILY (and still see here in ON) is overwhelming. To find myself in the same place as countless part-time applicants was nerve-racking. The upside? A whole mass-exodus of my friends found their way to Toronto and the surrounding areas in the past 2-3 years. There a lot of people in NS that I miss, but I have a lot of people near me here now. Everyone who made the move has continued to be employed or has made the successful transition into new employment, some of which landed their career choices. NS will probably always be a part of your heart, but if you want to have a comfortable, financially sound life, make the move west. I’ve come to think of NS as a place you can go to retire. Make your money, live your young life in a faster pace, then move back to where your heart is fondest. Buy that country property, grow your garden and relax by the Atlantic. PS, I’m only 35 myself.
BE BOLD! Make your own job, if I can, you can! I also am from Ontario,
(Toronto to be exact) and have been here 12 years. My first few years were pretty bleak, but I decided if I wanted to call this place home, I had to do it for myself.
With your education, you should have an vast wealth of knowledge you can utilize, even your gardening skills can be turned into a venture that will benefit you!
Believe in yourself!
Hi Heather,
You wrote: “I have been fighting so hard against leaving. I am from Ontario and I have lived in Nova Scotia for 12 years. I love it, I love the pace, the beauty, the friendliness, the fact that you are judged for who you are and not what you do.”
Same, same. Every word. And same to the rest. 30-something, Master’s degree, lots of volunteer experience, lots of resume updates, trips to Women’s Employment Outreach, on and on. Career Beacon? It should be called Career Bacon because sending off applications is something I do alongside my eggs most mornings, and like you, I no longer expect replies. Like you, I am bright, ambitious, and there is something about this situation that just seems horribly wasteful.
People are not leaving because they are lemmings, coasting out of town on the fumes of unrealistic negative perceptions. They’re leaving because they cannot achieve their potential as human beings.
Speaking of… I have a Skype interview for a placement in Calgary tomorrow… Wish me luck!
It’s unreasonable to think that kind of a degree will lead to a job. Unfortunately, when you’re younger you don’t know that, and no one tells you that. In fact, they tell you the opposite. I agree with the others here who said similar things, and especially with “be bold make your own job”. It’s hard, but possible, and worth the effort.
@ Someone
Again, I’m sorry, but that “sending off a zillion resumes and getting few if any replies” will happen everywhere you go. It happened to me in Toronto, and Halifax, and even Edmonton. I actually DID find my current job in Halifax via Careerbeacon, as it happens, but I had to send off probably 25 resumes over a few months to get it. That’s what it is.
Really, in Halifax as with EVERYWHERE, job-hunting is 85% about leveraging contacts. Really, go to Statistics Canada and compare the employment stats between cities. If we’re interested in looking at facts rather than individual tales of woe, Halifax has consistently better employment figures and post-grad labour-market integration than most Canadian cities, Alberta and Saskatchewan obviously excluded.
In Toronto, I knew girl from Glace Bay who told me never to move east, because “If you want to make anything of yourself, you’ve got to get out of there.” She embodied that self-hating Bluenoser thing, and guess what? She lost her one mediocre job in Toronto, and has since been unemployed in Toronto for the better part of a year. And I’ve been in Halifax for a year, employed happily, with good mobility to move upwards. So, I dunno. You can find anecdotal evidence one way or the other.
I’m speaking from facts and stats. Facts and stats say that Halifax isn’t that bad. I don’t deny that it’s hard–but it’s hard everywhere. Haligonians, however, are unique in that they make self-loathing pessimism and goin’-down-the-road-ism a competitive sport, and are negative all out of proportion to reality. It is demonstrably untrue that the job market is better in Toronto. But people believe it is, and that’s enough to send them away.
@ Pigeon,
I don’t disagree that this is more-or-less par for the course across the country, but I am speaking from the perspective of someone in a particular profession for which it is definitely true that the job market is better elsewhere, largely due to different regulations across provinces for what I do. I would not attempt to generalize my anecdote to the general population, but I felt like extending a little empathy to Heather. Perhaps it comes off to some as cliched commiserating.
If we want to go the route of facts and stats, we can safely make the claim that Canada, with its lack of foresight, has done this generation a disservice. Doc Zone released a documentary detailing the specifics: http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/generation-jobless
I would suggest that to call self loathing and pessimism a competitive sport among Haligonians is perhaps mildly condescending and denies the reality of many, many people’s lived experience. Hardworking, optimistic, self-made individuals among them. But I appreciate your perspective that this ain’t the only place…
I’m younger then many posting on here! So I have a different perspective!
I come from the last generation of young people with sense, if that helps!
When I left high school 7 years ago, none of my teachers told me how brutal it was to choose to not go to any post secondary!
I have seen many of my friends graduate from both university and college, with good degrees!
One friend is still working at Sobeys with her degree, another friend is selling cell phones and insurance with her degree(which is a dentistry degree btw), another friend is teaching English in Japan (ok so she’s doing what she went to school for), more of my friends who went through college for trades (mostly cooking) are employed, 80-90% of the year! One friend finished his electrician certification and works at McDonald’s….
My mother employed for over 20 years, is now unemployed and over qualified for any position in her industry, so she is unemployable!
With the economic uncertainty, jobs that were “sure things” aren’t anymore!
Restaurants are closing left right and centre, small businesses are going under, the success rate of a business is getting harder to nail down!
As I said, I did not go to post secondary schooling, maybe I Should have, after 7 years out of school, I have finally found where I wanna be, can I get the job that will take me on full time? NOPE! Why? Because there are 800 people who all want that position, and I just don’t have any way to compete!
I can’t even compete in the retail sector! I was a store manager, and I can’t get a job as a cashier? Where’s the sense?
I love my job, honest I do! I have an amazing boss, and feel wonderful about going to work everyday! (All 2-3) I know I can’t live off of 300 a month, hell people on assistance make more then me!
But I’m happy…
To sum up, school or no school, experience or no experience… There’s still 60 people for nearly every job opening! And it’s not just here! It’s practically everywhere!
Do what’s best for you, and don’t look back!
Your first mistake was to fall into the “university-will-get-me-a-good-job” trap. That, however, doesn’t address the main issue.
Your second mistake was to think that a masters of ARTS degree was a good idea. Whoever sold you on that path needs to be shot. Maybe try a real degree – that is – one that will get you a job…
@someone
Thanks for the thoughtful response–I understand that it may seem condescending to generalize about the defeatist attitude, but it’s just something that’s been inescapable since I moved here, and really is the only thing I dislike about the city, which is otherwise fantastic. I’ve never lived anywhere else where a person with a full-time job and lots of career mobility will talk openly of having no future for their children–the assumption of decline is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s frustrating to see so many Nova Scotians (especially those who haven’t lived elsewhere) harbouring unrealistic grass-is-greener ideas about the rest of the country, and it’s doubly frustrating to see the media constantly running these stories that reinforce that. (Also, reporting on our aging population, public debt, etc., as if these are unique to NS, when of course they’re issues in every province.)
I’m frustrated because the default MO seems to be to pack up and move away, which is no kind of long-term solution at all. And really, things are not so much better elsewhere. (Again, unless it’s Alberta. But I’m FROM Alberta, and it’s fine, but I ain’t moving back out there!)
I guess you’ve never been there, Pigeon. Being unable to apply for unemployment because you’ve never been employed for more than six months. Or being unqualified for social assistance despite making less than $200 a month because your common law partner is finishing up one class in university. Have you ever had an employer go bankrupt and skip out on your last paycheque? Have you ever had an employer ignore your invoice for over two years – and still not pay? Have you ever had a douche bag(s) email you to intern for them – no pay?
You can’t really blame people for moving out of Halifax, because despite your unfounded bias, the grass IS greener ( http://bit.ly/1eykUQk ) in the rest of the country compared to the atlantic provinces.
Dear lady,
I sincerely feel bad for you that you think it’s something you did wrong. I blamed myself as well. I came to live in Victoria, BC, from the UK five years ago -it is EXACTLY the same over here. Masters Graduates galore serving in cafes. I have 12 years’ newspaper reporter experience and am a trained social worker. The only work I have found is ten dollars an hour retail. I have researched all over Canada and the UK it’s the same picture. They aren’t telling us the truth about how dire the economy really is. The only alternative is to teach English in Asia
@BastardFish
Sorry, I’m comparing urban unemployment rates. Halifax is better off than most cities in that regard (like, I said, 6.6 percent unemployment in Halifax vs 10.1 in Toronto, or 8.4 in Montreal).
Yes, Nova Scotia’s OVERALL unemployment rate is indeed a couple points above the national average, mostly because of Pictou County and Cape Breton. But I’m looking at life in the cities, not in Glace Bay or Sheet Harbour or wherever. No doubt that the rural Maritimes are facing a major crisis in terms of how to reinvent themselves for the 21st century. But we’re talking about Halifax specifically.
As per your questions: No, I’ve never had an employer go bankrupt and skip out on my last paycheque, but as a freelancer in Toronto, I have had employers say “Sorry, we have no money, can’t pay you.” And I definitely have interned for no pay, twice in Toronto and once in Calgary.
GOOD LORD: I worked in media and journalism. That’s almost the only kind of internship there is, and if you’re in Toronto, you’ll have dozens of eager journalism-school grads gouging each others’ eyes out, competing to write unpaid blog posts about celebrity pets. (I exaggerate only slightly.) If it’s a job with a real magazine or newspaper, you might get a 500-dollar monthly stipend, but probably not, and you’ll be in competition with HUNDREDS of people. And you’ll be paying a thousand dollars a month to live in a basement apartment with two roommates. Hey, look at the poster above you who said it’s the same thing on the opposite coast, in Victoria. National perspective.
I’m looking at data, Bastard Fish. It seems you’re the one with the unfounded–or at least only partially informed–bias.
I suspect a lot of folks are missing one very important element of this discussion…
Vancouver may technically have a somewhat higher rate of unemployment but the pay is higher out there and (wait for it) the cost of living is lower, not higher, lower.
Oh sure the price of a house is really, really high, but food and rent, is far less than Halifax.
We are getting screwed twice…
I personally got a job in Vancouver in mere days, when in Halifax I could expect to wait at least two months to find something full timey.
They have an excellent transportation system, and you don’t have to pay out your nose to heat your house. I am not trying to say Vancouver is better, but they certainly have advantages we can’t seem to compete with. The first step would be paying a livable wage, and providing good quality affordable housing and transport so that all our workers don’t need to drive or squish into substandard housing on the peninsula just to hold down a decent job and maybe even better themselves with community involvement and culture that isn’t hokey tourist trap trash.
In Nova Scotia we have fantastic potential, yet we squander time and time again.
The proof is in the shifting demographics, if it keeps going this way, NS will just be a retirement community everyone under 35 will be yearning to leave.
I have a relatively good job with HRSB, but the pay is still far too low. My rent is relatively low, and I live in a rural area because I have to remain close to work. I simply cannot afford to commute, and if my car breaks down I will have to quit my job and move into some apartment within the urban area.
Life here is tenuous and has been since as long as I can remember. Why can’t we do better???
My suspicion is we allow our government to fuck us over, and mismanage our money, yet never take them to task other than complain.
We (collectively) have great ideas but not the gumption to make it happen.
@ zuke
Are you sure you’re not in Vancouver, Washington? The Vancouver that I know is seeing a steady stream of young people heading east over the rockies to get to Alberta. The cost of rent is stratospheric (fire up PadMapper if you disbelieve), unemployment is higher, and the median age is almost as old as Saint John–young people are leaving Vancouver ’cause it’s too damn pricey.
Finally, median household income in Halifax is $78,000. In Vancouver, it’s $68,000, despite the higher cost of living. Proof: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/s…
The huge gap between earnings potential and cost of living is driving people out of Vancouver in droves. This isn’t just me talking; it’s a well-documented problem that Vancouver’s civic leaders are grappling with. So I don’t know what you’re talking about when you say it’s cheaper to live there. (True, though, its transit system is epically better than ours.)
Some interesting jobs in Nova Scotia being posted these days. Take a look – http://www.scoop.it/t/nova-scotia-employme…
Luckily for you there are places that are friendly, laid back AND dynamic. Maritimers in general like to sell you “lifestyle” but it’s a steaming crock of shit. That’s what they’re told by their governments, because there’s nothing else to sell them. I was born there, left once, came back, and have now left again…for good. I’ll visit, but only because family and friends insist on staying there. It needs to get hollowed out like Detroit before a reboot can be considered. Like that fuckwit Pigeon keeps commenting here, “but the average salary in Halifax is $78,000 and Vancouver is $68,000!!”, go back and do some remedial math – that’s an average of all the six-figure university administrative jobs, government positions (including the people tellig you “live the lifestyle!”), etc etc that come with being a capital. Now…add on the highest income taxes and HST in the country…and $68k in Vancouver goes further than $78 and quality of life is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.
Anyone reading this under 40 — get out. get out now. Never look back. It’s a blackhole of dreams. Even if you’re successful, you’ll work twice as hard for the same results. And Never mind friendly…I’ve never been shafted by so many cheats, lazy hacks, etc as I was in Halifax. “That’s good enough for Halifax” is the key mantra there.
Halifax has some interesting employers. Some of them expect a PHD in dishwashing to hire you it seems. I don’t know why people bother unless you’re currently in school and stuck there for a few years. If you feel like you have to leave a city or province to get what you want in life, then you should follow your gut and not let yourself get dragged down by friends and relatives.
@MaritimeBlackhole
Thanks for calling me a fuckwit—sound s like you have major anger issues to deal with, to be so angry and harsh with someone on the internet you don’t even know. (Probably the fact that you’re obviously an aggressive prick has to do with your employment troubles.)
Anyway, I knew someone would say that universities and government jobs are to account for the higher income, but A: That’s not entirely true, because government jobs don’t make up as much of the local employment situation as people think, and B: so what if they did? University jobs are still jobs, and lots of smaller cities in Canada and the U.S. use educational institutions as economic cornerstones. In the U.S. They call it an “eds and meds” economy. (Universities and medical facilities.)
It’s funny: I saw a Reddit thread a few months back started by a Vancouverite asking Haligonians if he should move there (he’d been offered a job in Halifax that he felt would advance his career.) About 150 people responded, about half born-and-raised Haligonians, half people from elsewhere. Almost without deviation, the born-and-raised told him he would be doomed if he moved here. The Ontarians/Albertans/etc., who’d moved to Halifax from elsewhere loved it, whether they’d just moved or been here for years. All of them encouraged him torelocate. (He did, and seems to be liking it lots.)
ANYWAY: The Nova Scotia that some Nova Scotians describe for me (i.e., a deeply troubled, backwards, economically ruined hellhole) does not exist. It’s a miserablist fantasy born of defeatism and decades of goin’ down the road mentality. The economy IS relatively weaker here than many other places, but not THAT much weaker, especially in Halifax. Your perspectives are skewed by your (should I whisper this?) culture of defeat, and complaint.
This is a wonderful place, and there is lots of optimism and opportunity to be found here,as many people can attest. If you don’t see it: tough. Not sure why yr so hateful though.
PS: Vancouver is a great city. I love it. But anyone claiming that 68k household income in Vancouver goes further than 78k in Halifax is either lying or stupid. Talk to some Vancouverites, for Gods sake.
Okay lets clear something up. Lets assume Halifax means the HRM, so it stands to reason that references to Vancouver refer to the Metro Vancouver area or at least wherever the Skytrains go.
Burnaby, Surrey, New Westminster, East Van are cheaper. Groceries are cheaper, and rent is cheaper.
Just because some of the younger folks want to go make 100k in Alberta doesn’t change this.
Try that living in Sackville and working in Burnside and taking the bus each day to get to work. It just doesn’t fucking compare. I have lived all over the Lower Mainland, and in Edmonton, and Montreal and right here at home. I know the difference when I see it.
@ Pigeon
I just moved back west from Halifax. I’m one of those boomerang maritimers you hear about and don’t like – I left long ago, came back….then left again after realizing things hadn’t changed that much.
About your point on salary above – it’s actually quite simple for 68K to go farther in Vancouver than 78k does in Halifax, for much the same reason 100k in Moncton goes further than 100k in NYC: Halifax is NOT cheap. I know…I’ve kept detailed monthly expenses for years now, from San Francisco to Halifax and back to San Francisco. Caveat: my expenses reflect how my family lives their lives, but for a similar lifestyle, Halifax is slightly more expensive than San Francisco. It’s about as apples-to-apples of a comparison as I can manage.
Income and sales taxes are higher, a smaller market means consumers down east don’t benefit from promotions that other bigger population centers might, more expensive real estate transactional fees and taxes…it all adds up in the end for how far a dollar goes. (there are also a host of issues in terms of lifestyle, opportunities for career growth, etc etc where Halifax doesn’t really compare — it just can’t, it’s too small — but let’s set that aside and focus on real numbers)
Yes, Vancouver is also expensive, but don’t fall into the trap of believing the hype either. I’m asked day in and day out by people who know I live in SF “OMG, how can you afford it???” Truth is…they ought to be saying that about Halifax if they want progress.
(On the math issue too — We also had a business there that did well, but the average salary your referring to of $78k is a median on very thin-tailed bell curve, which is likely why you have 100k-earning professionals and bureaucrats typically found in a regional capital who are being served a lot of coffee by PhDs making minimum wage. I drop that in here to educate anyone thinking of starting a business in Halifax)
The unemployment rate issue is same thing. Many love to say “But look at Halifax’s low unemployment rate compared to Toronto!” Toronto is surrounded by places of higher unemployment, but relatively speaking, the differences between Toronto and these outlyign communities are small. “Low unemployment” Halifax is surrounded by communities with stubborn double-digit unemployment. Those folks SHOULD move somewhere to find work, and often Halifax is at least their first step. But that drives down wages in Halifax because they can also hire another desperate Caper or former Valley resident for less. It’s not much different that the issues some closed-minded Americans have with some Latin American immigrants – “they’re taking our jobs!” — but often they do jobs few want for low wages. When you go from almost-zero income to any income, it’s a blessing. Like the US in relation to Latin America, “developed” Halifax is surrounded by a “developing” Atlantic Canada.
So this may be shocking to you….but receipts don’t lie. Sorry to burst your bubble, and sorry that native maritimers are harshing your mellow. But give us credit…we did grow up here, so i think we probably learned something about the place that you don’t know coming from elsewhere. We have the luxury of perspective. You may feel the same way about where you’re from.
We pick where we live based on a lot of things. But the “hope” that seems to drive a lot of “big idea” development in Halifax simply isn’t anchored in anything. Focusing on small continuous improvement (which, admittedly, is boooooring!) and changing how things are structured (i.e convincing the entrenched beneficiaries to give something up, very tough anywhere) are the only tried and true ways to fix this.
A new stadium, convention center, big box outlet center, government congtract, etc etc are all nice, but they’re not enough.
@ Pigeon
You said: “It’s a miserablist fantasy born of defeatism and decades of goin’ down the road mentality. The economy IS relatively weaker here than many other places, but not THAT much weaker, especially in Halifax. Your perspectives are skewed by your (should I whisper this?) culture of defeat, and complaint.”
I don’t share this view of Maritimers. Many are hardworking, some are lazy, some have given up — likely in same general distribution as other places. But I personally voted with my feet — twice now. It’s not a personal slight to the maritimes, they just can’t deliver what we’re looking for right now.
Like most ex-maritimers, I have earned the right to talk about I feel is what’s holding the place back. I’m not sure whose comments you’re reacting to, but if you call that a culture of complaint, so be it.
I’ve worked for two companies where I’ve been told — as per your advice — to stop complaining and get on board with the team. Neither of those companies exist now.
@ Pigeon if you are from Alberta and moved here, have full time upward mobile employment, I think I can safely assume at least two things.
1. You choose to be here and have no familial ties to this place.
2. You are fortunate, or highly skilled to have an upwardly mobile job (not an internship, cause that not what this article is about), and probably had this job promised to you before you arrived.
These two things don’t give you the necessary insight to believably criticize those who have been born and raised here.
Also, if it wasn’t for the universities I suspect that the age demographics of Halifax would resemble something like Truro or Kentville, which is to say dominated by oldies.
When these students graduate they are likely to do like so many, many before, they will try to hack it and stay because they like here, but will probably leave because they don’t want to remain impoverished renters for the rest of their lives.
My central point remains. Basically:
Things are less economically robust here than many other places. But there is a deep-set, culturally learned tendency for many (not all) people who grew up here to believe that things are much worse than they are. Or inversely: that things are much better everywhere else, even when they may be the same, or in some cases, worse.
You simply cannot give some Maritimers good news. They don’t know how to handle it, and are always looking for the clouds on the horizon–mention a low-ish unemployment rate in Halifax, and it’s “just government jobs” or “people have given up looking for work” (actually not a statistically significant number of people). Mention a high median income, and it’s just skewed upwards by “high-earning bureaucracts” (which is illogical–would it not also be skewed downward by all impoverished folks?)
@Zuke
You’re basically saying that as a come-from-away, my insights into the region are unimportant. I’d say they’re valuable–I’m impartial, as I haven’t been brought up with region’s various cultural biases. I came here for a job, and didn’t have any idea of all this negativity. Having been here for quite a while now (and on my second job, incidentally) it’s baffling, and the only way I can understand it is as a cultural trait, passed down the generations. Some of my local friends agree with this and also find it frustrating. People will aggressively shoot down your optimism and enthusiasm, or even be condescending to people who “refuse” to move away. Those people can piss right off.
Also, no, Vancouver is not cheaper for rent. Check the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation data. (This data includes all the suburbs, etc., so a central apartment in any of these cities will be higher-priced. But 1,200 bucks can get you a GREAT apartment on the peninsula. It will get you fuck-all in central Vancouver.) http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/nero/ne…
@Trevor Curwin
You make some good points, but alleging that the same income goes farther in San Fran and Vancouver–two of the planet’s most expensive, uber-gentrified cities–than it would in Halifax is certainly not one of them. It’s demonstrably untrue. (And yes, I’m talking about the overall metropolitan region in all cases).
I make almost exactly about the same income here as I made in Ontario, just slightly more–the higher taxes eat up more of my income, for sure, but the cheaper cost of housing more than offsets that. I have more disposable income on a monthly basis here than I did there, and I live in a better place in a better neighbourhood to boot. (Plus, you guys never mention how cheap your internet services are out here.)
Also, Halifax is not surrounded by areas of double-digit unemployment–only Cape Breton faces that. Many of the old rust-belt areas of southwestern Ontario are much worse off than, say, the South Shore. Last month, Nova Scotia’s provincial unemployment rate was 8.6 percent, only 1 percent higher than Ontario’s (7.6). And that’s with Cape Breton’s terrible numbers dragging down the average.
OF COURSE this province is more economically challenged than the west, and OF COURSE I on’t begrudge anyone who wants to try their hand elsewhere.
But this whole “there’s no future, no jobs, no hope” thing is old and tired. And untrue. The most damaging thing for this province’s future is all the people who believe it anyway.
@ Pigeon you are ridiculous. 950,000+ people are wrong, but you’re right and have greater and better insight than they do…
Not likely.
We know what hard means, don’t bother patronizing us. We have the right to complain because we have lived through it.
I don’t think we are as defeatist as you may believe. If we were don’t you think we would all just leave, and wouldn’t bother to complain (and there by attempt to steer a new course).
About those people who “refuse” to leave and how they piss you off. I would think they have every right to stay here and their desire for secure and viable employment that allows them to buy homes is valid.
I want to see us do better. You’re right that complaining won’t help, but sticking your head in the sand won’t help either. We have to come to terms with the fact that we have a problem.
Our government continues to squander money on high profile projects, or on failing industries like forestry (which is stupid to think we can compete with larger provinces). Yet the potential we do have is wasted.
For the record I never said your opinion was unimportant, I said it was hard to believe.
Go try living in the commuter shed around Halifax, and ride the bus to work. You will very quickly realize that even poor old, cracked out, gang riddled Surrey B.C. has advantages over and above anything Halifax can provide.
I know. I have been there, and I would gladly go back if this wasn’t my home.
Sorry, I am mistaken. The people who look down on those who refuse to leave piss you off. You’re right there, they bug me too.
Zuke, I bet some of 950,000 people in this province you mention would agree with me. (Including the 180,000 who were born in a different province or country, and who chose to came here.)
Anyway, of course we have problems. Certainly there are major challenges to confront and we have to be honest about them. What I’m saying is that MANY people believe things to be much worse than they are. The second a person gets laid off in this town, they go “Oh, Halifax, you’ve failed me.” But of course, people get laid off everywhere. (I was laid off in Toronto two years back).
Anyway, as if to provide a nice positive capstone for this whole discussion, my girlfriend, who spent years under-employed in Toronto, has recently moved out here, and within two months of landing, has had three job offers. One paid terribly, so she didn’t take, but she’s currently trying to decide between the other two. They’re both great. For what it’s worth, she’s 29 and has a solid but not super-incredible resume.
Neither of us care about being superstars at the top of our field–we’re in media, so of course we would have to move to Toronto, or better yet, New York for that. What we care about is making a decent living and doing meaningful work in a place we love. We’re both able to do that, despite people who straight-up tell us it’s impossible.
The job market may suck in other places since 2008, but it’s been shit here for 25 years, at least. It is nice that you get to refuse work, to accept another for better pay.
The majority of us cannot afford that choice. You take what you can get.
You work in media. That is a professional job, which the majority of us cannot apply to. Yes, yes we could pay a very high tuition rate and get the training, but why would we stay here? In fact why would we go to post secondary training here at all either?
If you are quite comfortable renting and living a modest life, that’s fine. More power to ya, but for those of us who aspire to own something more than a rusty car and garden in a box, Halifax doesn’t cut it anymore.
Most skilled labourers here have to go somewhere else to get the experience to get hired. You want a construction job, you go to Alberta first and come back after you learned to swing a hammer.
All these folks going west, aren’t going because they want to. They are going because they have to.
They got the money, but we got the view.
#1…now you can join the long list of people who had to leave NS for economic reasons (self included and most people I know). Its sad but true.
#2 people with no work experience should not be admitted into a masters program, nor should they think that is a good idea.
Obligatory NS sucks post…. and dear god, it has a side effect of agreeing with no_fool.
Kill me now.
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5501084160/hA…
Zuke, with the employment and income stats in this city, I’m sorry, most people who are heading west are not doing so out of necessity, but desire. They feel there are more opportunities elsewhere. Depending on their field, that may be true–but it’s far from universally true. Much of it is assumption based on cultural precedent (i.e., years of goin’ down the road).
Obviously it doesn’t matter how many facts or statistics or objective reality is thrown your way. Nor does it matter that I’ve lived in SIX Canadian cities in four provinces, and Halifax stacks up pretty much in the middle, jobs-wise. You won’t believe it, because’s you’ve been culturally conditioned to believe the worst. It’s almost like you WANT to believe the worst.
(And I’m not bragging about being able to turn down work–I’m not some sort of super-trained professional dude. I just have a BA and a few internships behind me. But I write good resumes, volunteered to make connections, and wasn’t afraid to take a few poor-paying contract gigs to get my foot in the door and open up better opportunities later on. That’s the coast-to-coast reality for this generation.)
Anyway, thanks for the discussion! I’m out.
@ Pigeon, dude I’d like to know what objective reality you’re talking about.
Several people have been on here giving several good reasons why your assessment is flawed yet you continue to insist that we all have some collective culture of defeat.
I have lived in several other cities as well, and as it happens I have the luxury of cultural perspective when it come to the Maritimes.
You sir are, wrong. Dead wrong.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/…
Being able to eat out once in a while, and drinking a six pack doesn’t necessarily put you above the poverty line. For a family with children, and car payments, and a mortgage this place sucks.
People don’t uproot themselves from their homes, from their families, and Skype their parents on Christmas Day because they want to.
Perhaps your cost of living is low enough to allow you a comfortable life, but that isn’t the case for everyone.
I make no pretense of saying it isn’t tough in other places, but you can’t convince me, or most others that this is as good as it gets.
Zuke, read the other jobs piece in The Coast this week. I’m not saying this is as good as it gets, just that it isn’t that much worse than elsewhere. And nobody has been on here offering much data–it’s mostly just emotional rhetoric.
Also, that Ivany Commission report? Lots of good stuff in there, and I hope we pay heed to it. But of course, you could write the exact same thing for any province, especially Quebec, Ontario, and B.C. Similarly aging populations, public debt, and middling labour markets.
In fact, Ontario did have a report a couple of years ago that was remarkably similar: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-b…
Much of the trouble with Nova Scotia is the itq quota system .it is nothing but a modern land lord peasant system . Like in my town digby scallop quota goes for 4 dollars a lb .so for eternity some man is expected to go to work and pay 4 a lb to someone in a rocking chair .then pay all expences and after working 120 hours a week end up with nothing but a happy quota holder . Landlord peasant systems make people want to find a new world!
One of the serious issues that your having is that you thought a masters in arts was going to in some way generate an income. This is not a provincial problem this is a problem with the fundamental way you look at life.
>Masters in Arts
>Can’t find a job in NS
“MUST BE A NOVA SCOTIA PROBLEM, BECAUSE I’M PLENTY SURE PEOPLE ARE JUST FALLING OVER THEMSELVES EVERYWHERE ELSE TO HIRE SOMEONE WITH A MASTER OF ARTS.”
Because you’re being so realistic with your complaints!!!
Let me ask you something, did it hurt? You know, when you plummeted out of your ivory tower? Welcome to the real world. Now frig off to Toronto or wherever else you mediocre, self-entitled brats go with your useless degrees.
HAHAHHAHAHAHHA