[Image-1]
The ceaseless cascade of gross inhumanity that is 2014 just won’t let up. Dalhousie University’s school of dentistry is facing a lot of questions today after CBC broke the story of a misogynistic Facebook group of students.
At least a dozen male students belonged to the now-defunct Class of DDS 2015 Gentleman group, according to the CBC. Screenshots their reporters obtained show members polling each other about which two female students they’d most like to “hate fuck,” jokes about drugging women with chloroform and panicked posts once the group learned their published content had been leaked.
Late yesterday, Dal president Richard Florizone issued a statement condemning the behaviour.
“The university does take these allegations very seriously and, as a result, we are taking steps available to us to address the matter,” he stated, adding the dental school would be canceling all remaining fourth-year exams for the month.
“Sorry, but I don’t think low-brow humour in a private facebook group warrants ruining the lives of 12 men who have clearly worked incredibly hard and spent 10s of thousands of dollars on their education,” reads one Reddit post on the subject. Somehow discussions are continuing online about whether it’s cool for medical practitioners to joke about raping unconscious patients.
The “boys will be boys” mentality gets trotted out a lot to excuse student behaviour, and honestly, sometimes it’s true. Remember back in January? Football players at Saint Mary’s University made the news for tweets that ranged from disturbing to just quoting bad song lyrics. It was a far cry from several years of student-body approved frosh rape chants.
By contrast, Dal’s dental school is filled with grown-ass adults who are a hair’s breadth away from being licensed medical practitioners. Dalhousie’s program is competitive enough that not everyone who gets in is coming straight from their undergrad. The four-year program is filled with students whose ages range from mid-twenties to early-thirties. The Facebook group was made for those graduating next year. It’s unlikely those men weren’t treating patients in Dal’s clinic. These aren’t dumb kids—they’re dumb adults. Adults whose daily duties involve caring for the public.
There are many, many breaches of ethical policy that the actions of the dentistry students could fall under. Dalhousie’s clinic policy and procedures manual for dental students and faculty quotes the Canadian Dental Association’s code of ethics in responsibilities to the patient:
To emphasize, the dentist’s primary responsibility is to the patient. In fulfilling this responsibility, the dentist shall uphold the honor and the dignity of the profession and shall adhere to professional codes and obligations as well as the required applicable legislation.
The students’ code of professional conduct says dental students must adopt values of compassion and integrity to society, and “act in the best interest of others, do no harm.” Dentists, it reads, should represent themselves in a manner that “contributes to the esteem of the profession.” That extends outside of school, when students are to act responsibly at “social events” and “respect all races, ethnicities, religions, genders, beliefs and values of fellow students.”
They’re never to harm or intend to harm other students by verbal, physical or emotional and psychological means.
“Students should,” the code of conduct says, “treat all members of society justly and with respect.”
The province’s dental board licensing qualifications also say any dental applicants must be “of good moral character” and are not the subject of any complaints or sanctions.
Which is to say, there’s plenty of options to send a message that this type of behaviour is intolerable.
Florizone has stated the university will consider the “full range” of options over the next 48 hours, and that the school will follow a “victim-centred” approach, where the focus is on “understanding and repairing the harm caused.”
Repairing that harm is a big order, which borders on shifting an entire culture’s view of women. That’s admirable, but there’s plenty of practical options the university should also be considering if it doesn’t want abusive medical practitioners in its classrooms.
Immature or not, SMU’s tweeting football players were still suspended for their actions. Dalhousie’s dental students deserve an appropriately greater degree of accountability. Despite the privilege afforded by spending “10s of thousands of dollars,” disciplinary action wouldn’t be ruining the bright future of young students. In fact, it may be a matter of public safety.
Related Stories
Plenty of ground left to cover this year at SMU
Women are half of Halifax, so make some room
This article appears in Dec 11-17, 2014.
-“Men will be men will be terrible”
Please don’t generalize
-“Repairing that harm is a big order, which borders on shifting an entire culture’s view of women”
No, they did not say they were going to solve women’s issues in general, rather they are going to address the psychological harm to the specific women who were the target of the online group. This is obviously the right approach. A victim centered approach should not justify no punishment where punishment is warranted, however the initial focus should obviously be on the women affected – If your friend were shot presumably you would want the ambulance to show up before the police
The damage done to the dental profession by these moronic male students is bigger than most realize. As a result of their actions all male Dal dentistry grads of 2014-15 are cast under the same microscope of suspicion. How would a female patient (especially sexual assault victims) know if they were being treated by one of those who participated in this despicable behaviour? They wouldn’t.
“Boys will be boys?” Oh, so that makes rape okay, does it? Wrong answer.
The actions of a few affect so very many, those students who do not share the offending student’s criminal views, female patients, and those who HAVE been sexually assaulted by their dentist while under the effects of chloroform or nitrous oxide. Those students who participated in these criminal posts do not deserve the title of doctor. Dalhousie has an onus to protect the public by denying those who are guilty of harbouring these rape-is-okay ideals their doctorate. Anything less is unacceptable.
As a close neighbour of Dalhousie, I am not surprised by this at all. My Facebook page Take Back Our Neighbourhood Halifax has been subjected to gross and rude comments from male Dal students, who think it’s really funny (apparently). About time to call them on this stupid and hurtful behaviour! thanks, great article
Sign here if you’d like to see these students expelled.
https://www.change.org/p/dalhousie-university-president-dr-richard-florizone-expel-the-students-who-were-members-and-or-participated-in-the-facebook-group-called-class-of-dds-2015-gentlemen?recruiter=197561341&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive
After the nauseating free ride this rag gave the apologists for a certain rapist/lawyer you have precisely ZERO credibility in commenting on sexual harrassment issues. ZERO!
I’ll be asking my next dentist if he ever studied at Dal and leaving upon a “yes.” Unless something is done, like “ruining” these “young” students career’s. That’s exactly what needs to happen because it’s obvious they wasted their money on a profession they weren’t cut out for to begin with.
as a very recent male grad of dal I’m not suprised by this idiotic misogynistic behaviour at all. I hung out/partied with dudes like this all the time: “bros” who thought they were the shit – and thought they could have their way with any woman they chose, simply because they were going to make a lot of money soon, or maybe they played intramural football. It’s an old boy’s club and sadly they never really seem to grow out of this kind of behaviour. I see it in the workplace all the time.
Expel em all. Let em deal with their student loans (most of which they would have spent on booze and weed) and make em actually learn a lesson at school for once.
What a bunch of assholes. Have a great Christmas explaining this one to mommy and daddy. Dicks.
Just once I’d like to see some real worldness applied to academia. If this was, say, Daniel Daniel Dentistry that we were talking about, what do you think the outcome would be? Do you think Daniel Daniel Dentistry would have these people on the payroll after the end of the week? Not likely, based on what I’ve read about codes of conduct in the medical/dental profession over the past few. I’m sure they can finish their programs somewhere, maybe.
Outrage Porn: Memes, news articles, TV segments, email forwards, or other forms of media that are designed to invoke outrage. This is especially true for political-related topics. Viewers of outrage porn often become addicted and spend many hours per day trying to seek new outrage highs.
http://betabeat.com/2014/02/outrage-porn-how-the-need-for-perpetual-indignation-manufactures-phony-offense/
This is disgusting and I truly hope Dalhousie University deals with the issue appropriately and doesn’t just let these guys get away with nothing but a “slap on the wrists”. They should really make an example for other students on the consequences of such behaviour.
But…
“Men will be men will be terrible”
Please… Please please please don’t generalize men.
What these idiots clearly don’t understand is the fact that as a health care professional, you are placed in a position of trust by your patient. Even if these comments were ‘only jokes,’ do they really think a patient is going to trust them? How do we know if they were ‘only joking’ and how do we know they have the maturity to be put in a position of trust if they think these types of jokes (ON FUCKING SOCIAL NETWORKING on top of the bargain) are acceptable in any way, shape or form?
I know I certainly wouldn’t procure their dental services after this. And sadly, unless the assholes responsible for this crap are named, I’m going to have to avoid ALL male grads in this class and I doubt I”m the only one. These dummies have ruined the otherwise good name of ALL male grads in their class. If I was a male student in this class not involved in this pathetic situation, I’d be IRATE.
Yes, it’s a shame these young people may have their studies and the ’10s of thousands of dollars’ wasted, but it’s NO ONE’S fault but their own.
Don’t do the crime, if you can’t do the time.
I would buy the idea of a ‘private FB’ commenting if they hadn’t named their FB page after their class. It wasn’t an anonymous FB page at all. So their comments did express views of about-to-be professionals. There are so many actual private groups that welcome all sorts of hate/sexual violence/’funny’ rape comments – they can join those if they want to post those sorts of things. The thing is, naming the group as they did, representing their profession as they did, makes what they posted absolutely inappropriate. The administrator of the page should have removed the posts as soon as they were posted and since he didn’t, that speaks to endorsement. I don’t immediately think that all members should be publicly named. I believe the admin of the FB page should be disciplined, and any member of that page who posted or commented encouragingly on the inappropriate submissions. I would also like to know if this was a voluntary FB page for the male DDS students, what percentage of the students are on it, was there pressure to join or was it limited to ‘like minded’ idiots.
Do you want one of these guys as YOUR dentist? Publish the names and let the public decide.
These young men should be let go from the program and not able to graduate. It is a very easy solution and a record of their behavior is to be on their transcripts from the University. They should never be able to finish their degree anywhere in Canada or the United States. There parents must be so very proud of the young men they have raised NOT.
Let’s not get too righteously angry here. Sure, you can’t generalize and say that all men think this way…as in for real. But do similar comments sometimes get made by a lot of men, in academic, corporate and military settings? You better believe they do. It’s usually in a private setting, men only, probably during a social occasion…often lubricated by alcohol, but sometimes not.
These guys were simply moronic enough to publicly post their thoughts. And as far as we know that’s all we are talking about here: no actual deeds other than offensive verbal (written) expressions. Is there actual intent? I doubt it. There’s no more intent involved than with all the men and women who watch hard porn…which is very many of us. Where they showed really bad judgment is in identifying with their school and class on FaceBook…well, anyone who uses FB shows bad judgment anyway, but that’s a different matter. The odds of any of these guys actually being truly interested in “hatef**king” or patient rape are minuscule, likely no greater than the medical profession or general population as a whole.
I guess what I’m saying is that the odds are that very few, if any, of these idiots actually believe rape is OK. What they are is immature – they expressed fantasies that most men have had, or have, but will never act on, and don’t even want to for real…but most men can compartmentalize and know what is a fantasy and what isn’t. And they don’t post the stuff on FB.
Should these characters be expelled en masse? I don’t think so. There needs to be interviews with them, perhaps some counselling, but I don’t think you just throw out the whole lot. There’s a bit too much of the “they are evil people, and I’m perfect” in this whole thread.
Unfortunately, they no doubt signed code of conduct agreements when signing onto the program.
So what you’re SAYING, Realist is: boys will be boys, am I right?
Actually, Kitty, I guess I *am* saying “boys will be boys”. And by extension, “girls will be girls”, because your gender can privately be pretty vicious and hurtful too.
If you read what I wrote more carefully, what I’m saying is that the real problem people – male and female alike – are the ones who externalize fairly common thoughts. In other words, the ones who progress to verbally or physically abusing people for real. Who hasn’t had the thought of taking out a bad-tempered manager with a punch to the face or taking out their knees? Do most of us actually do it? No, we don’t. Similarly, way more guys than will ever admit it have fantasies of rough or forcible sex – and in fact, a lot of women have similar fantasies – but few actually act on it in an inappropriate, non-consensual fashion. Mainly because we can distinguish between fantasy and real life.
I’d characterize these guys as simply being young and stupid. They’ve never been out of school and higher academia, they probably also have their heads (little and big) puffed up because they are seniors in a medical program…they’ve never experienced real life yet. I doubt very much that any of them would ever act out their fantasies…which they were retarded enough to expose on a FB page. Odds are, most of them had girlfriends and some of them now suddenly don’t, and they are contemplating how truly idiotic they were.
There a few of those dental students – and I suspect just a few – that deserve harsh censure, if they indeed mentioned names. But thinking that all of this small group seriously believes that rape is OK is delusional.
No graduation now or ever. Let this serve as a very important message!
I wonder if women are flicking their bean for every dislike I get?
‘Mr.Meaty’:
I’m not going to hate on your post. I’m not going to ‘bitch’ or complain.
I just wanted to let you know that if you were hoping to cause all of us women to go crazy and lose it, many of us don’t have the ability to. The energy to.
As a woman with the unfortunately common history of having been raped, your post only led me to feel a sense of hollowness. That I am a fool for trying to heal myself after being brutally attacked and having my life threatened. I am a worthless, an object that, for the sheer nature of my biology, deserves to be choked and raped. I deserve to have men joke about these things around me. I shouldn’t hope for any progress when it comes to my own children or my baby niece. No woman should. We’re just hypocritical trash, undeserving of justice or hope.
I’m so tired of this life.
In the very near future, when choosing a dentist, be sure to ask the gender and graduation details…male, Dal, and the current class…you might want to choose a different dentist…since we won’t know their names, probably best to presume anyone from the class could have been a member of the fb group…
@nicacook: in the very near future (or how about now or *any* time in the future) why not just avoid dealing with males, period, if you’re a woman, if choosing a GP or dentist? What makes you think that these particular idiots at Dal Dentistry are anomalous as far as their thinking goes? They _are_ anomalous insofar as they were stupid enough to set up a FB page and trumpet this viewpoint, but that’s about it.
On a more general note, you can divide men into roughly four groups in this respect. A small percentage are actually criminal when it comes to verbal and physical abuse of women. A substantial number of men are quite misogynistic but would never act out for real – I’d lay odds that almost all of these wannabe dentists are like that. Another large group (very anonymous) also hold some degree of misogynistic beliefs – they too will never act out, and perhaps only ever evidence this thinking in private, or with trusted male friends. And then at the other end of the spectrum you have another small percentage of men who genuinely don’t harbour any beliefs of this kind at all…this is not to be confused with men who rush forward after an incident of this type proclaiming how much *they* love women and abhor this kind of behaviour.
You’re dealing with men here. 99 percent of us masturbate and 1 percent of us admit to it. Most of us watch or have watched (or looked at, back in the days of no Internet porn and furtively obtained VHS porn tapes, so you stuck with Penthouse and Hustler) pornography, and a lot of it is pretty degrading and raw. You think it’s just pimply-faced teenagers or scrawny ugly adult weirdos that watch that stuff? No, a majority of men do – including guys who are happily married or have girlfriends that they treat like jewels. Pardon the bad pun, in the context of this discussion, but it would be like pulling teeth to get a man to admit any of this, though.
Women need to understand _ I don’t mean this as a directive – that male thoughts and male behaviour are not one and the same. A well-adjusted man – that’s most of us – is genuinely respectful, caring, and would never verbally or physically abuse a woman. But that doesn’t mean that there is no fantasy life or occasional thoughts. Where these DDS lads crossed the line is that they publicized thinking that is best kept inside your own head, or occasionally manifests as jokes cracked with trusted and close male friends. Like I’ve already stated, those individuals in this group that actively targeted specific women by name do indeed deserve censure. But good luck in trying to change the male psyche.
Professional schools have a responsibility to produce graduates that uphold expected conduct of said profession. If Dalhousie forgoes that responsibility then they ought to lose the ability to grant such degrees.
Dalhousie has two options; A) expel the students or B) close Dentistry and consider Law and Medicine to go next.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/18/report-8-children-stabbed-to-death-in-australia/
I am offended to having been put in the same group as these men.
Now that these men (and not boys) have expressed their tendencies, the onus is on them to prove that they do not have possibility of acting out on their fantasies to the slightest extent.
Perhaps, a decision by a panel of jury from the society should decide on their fate.
However, this should be decided on individual basis, punishment to the whole group, any group: men, male dentists, class of 2015, or even these 12 students would not be just.
Would anyone send their kid to these guys? Seriously, they’re finished. Too bad for them. Tired of being sensitive to criminals, one thing to have fantasies about people around you – that’s natural – it’s something else to have VIOLENT fantasies. Who has that? If you do you don’t need to perpetuate with friends, you need to get into therapy and find out what’s wrong with your head. Ditch digger probably a better professional choice than Doctor or Dentist.
Basically, if they don’t expel them then they may save the careers of those involved, but it will severely damage the reputation of the university, dentistry as a profession, and especially the other well behaved male and female dentists in the class. They would have to live with this huge public embarrassment that will haunt them unfairly.
The fact that the decision to expel wasn’t immediately clear to protect the school’s reputation really shows just how this poor judgement is shared with the school itself.
This isn’t just about the fact that the women (and other non-participating men) in the class have worked just as hard and now have extra stress and harm caused by these students in their careers and lives, it’s an issue of graduating students and teaching them that they will get away with unethical behaviour. Now these men, who clearly do not show good judgement or character, should not be allowed the privilege and responsibility of treating patients. Perhaps they can work in labs or some other occupation that doesn’t involve a close encounter with others, especially women (and perhaps minorities as well?). It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know when you shouldn’t trust someone with your life and I certainly wouldn’t trust anyone who did this.
Good universities create social committees that promote ethical support groups and social functions. Making a group exclusively for men was an absolutely terrible idea and nothing good ever comes from exclusive groups. It’s like starting a “white people” only group. If you create a bond based on ethnicity, gender, social class, it will promote racist, sexist, and classcist behaviour. How effective is a school if their students, in their 4th year, still think that exclusive supremacist groups are a good idea.
Dalhousie has decided for these guys not to continue with the class of 2015. Poor class of 2016 (or 2017).
What is wrong with you people? Ever told a dirty joke? Ever? At all? To anyone? How about in a password protected, invite only, facebook group that was never intended to see the light of day?
A man’s private thoughts are only acceptable for discussion after they have been vetted by a woman.
If she doesn’t agree then he can’t say it.
Nevertheless, how much should you be destroyed for that joke. I’m sure we can drum up someone to be offended by it. How much cash should we strip from your pocket? How many of your knuckles should we break? How many years in prison for the “damage” you caused with your words.
Canadian Social Justice Authoritarians are just warped.