How is throwing a grenade in a firefight in which you are a combatant a war crime? —Gitmofused
This article appears in Oct 21-27, 2010.
War Crimes
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Pssst…you’re not allowed to fight back.
Yeah, I don’t know about that one either. I think some have tried to argue that the issue is he killed a ‘lawful’ American soldier (medic) while he was not a soldier representing any nation, merely a jihadist.
Either way you cut it, this shit pisses me off. I can’t believe that not only has already spent 8 years in Gitmo but he will be made to serve another 8….so laws against child soldiers aside, he will spend 16 years in prison for a “crime” he “may” have committed when he was a 15 year old boy.
Yeah that makes sense. Don’t even get me started on the fact that any information they gleaned from him is because of torture, all the while denying someone of their basic human and legal rights.
Seriously, when did it become ok for our government to pick and choose whose rights are respected and whose aren’t?
May? He plead guilty. But then everyone in prison is innocent.
The winners make the rules.
i think it’s called double standard
canadian soldiers are only for collateral damage of the u.s., and to even think of fighting back, well then, that would make you a murderer in the eyes of these fools in medialand. war is hell, so kill them all to get peace.
Omar’s got more guts than most.
NGF then he can be your neighbour when he gets back.
Sure. I’m not blindly afraid of Arabs or coloured people like most.
He plead guilty to get a plea bargain so he can do most of his sentence in Canada. Personally, I think if he goes into a regular population in the U.S. he’ll be dead inside a year.
I think it’s pretty disgusting that the US feels their invading soldiers have the right to kill members of a native population without said population defending themselves. I don’t agree with the Taliban or anything they stand for (they are a much more disgusting lot), but this kid was a soldier following orders. He just didn’t have a uniform, which I guess made him a terrorist.
Khadr is ruined for life. He’ll never come out of prison remotely normal or able to function in society.
Israel is the Lady Gaga of war crime.
The American farce that is the ‘War on Terror’ continues.
The Americans haven’t been happy with unconventional opponents since, say, their own revolution, when *they* were very happy to operate like the Taliban against the British. But since then, and especially since WW2, the US has been unhappy about clauses in the international laws of war agreements and protocols that afford realistic protections to non-nation-state belligerents. Mainly because the American high-tech war machine has had some problems fighting insurgents, and they’d like it better if their opponents had to make better targets.
If you’re confused about Khadr don’t feel bad. Ever since Bush and Cheney came out with that “enemy combatant” bullshit (admittedly that was later clarified and toned down, but the damage was done) everyone has wondered the same thing – how is it that people who don’t belong to the ranks of a national army but are nonetheless distinctively garbed, carry arms openly and answer to a leader, and only want to defend against an attacker, how is it that they suddenly became illegal?
The Americans want to be real careful about this because it can come back to bite ’em.
The flip side to your argument RID is that, since the implementation of the various treaties and conventions that are supposed to protect the rights of Prisoners of War there has only been one nation that has even made a cursory attempt to live up to it’s commitments in it’s treatment of captured American servicemen. Care to guess? So while it is disappointing to see a great nation like the United States turn it’s back on international law, I really can’t blame them too much for being cynical about the Geneva convention. Since 1941 they’ve been “bitten” as you put put, many times.
This whole incident has been so unfortunate…mainly because the American soldiers that aprehended young Khadr were such poor shots…
NGF – Khadrs accomodation needs are already looked after, Layton or Iggy have a spare room or 2 for him. They’re also going to nominate him for the Order of Canada and no doubt have already started work on the amount of $$ compensation he is entitled to. Then his wonderful family, who do so love Canadian ways, especially the financial and medical benefits will be looking for some free dosh.
It’s hard to say which of the 2 stories I am heartilly sick of hearing, khadr or fucking brindi, hopefully both will finish with the same end result.
The absurdities are mounting quickly.
Omar Khadr is prosecuted and convicted as a ‘war criminal’ by a military tribunal. This puts him in the same category as past war criminals like Hermann Göring and Wilhelm Keitel, both Nazi military men sentenced to death by the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal, or Serb General Ratko Mladić (still on the run from justice). A ridiculous notion but that is how the Americans have chosen to characterize Khadr.
And yet, by their actions, members of previous American administrations are responsible for causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians since their unprovoked and illegal invasion of Iraq seven years ago. There are good legal precedents for prosecuting George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as war criminals, and these precedents go all the way back to the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for that one. The Americans have demonstrated throughout their long foreign affairs history the truth of that old chestnut “might makes right”.
Who cares….as long as he doesn’t get released in Canada. Just imagine all the explosive anger he’s holding in….waiting to blow up in Canada.
my finger …is on the button..
not that I believe in anything that he was fighting for or anything, but I thought in war all bets were off? The American soldiers knew what they were getting into when they joined the Army. Khadyr was not only a soldier but a CHILD. He wasn’t fighting for a nation, but he was still fighting for a leader. A soldier under orders is just that: a soldier. not a criminal, that should be reserved for the leaders of these organizations.
Strictly speaking… Khadr was not a “child”, he was 15, nor was he a “soldier”since he was not in uniform, fighting in an army under a flag, etc. … Both terms have meaning under the U.N. definitions. Therefore, according to basic logic, (not A and not B: Therefore Not A and B) Khadr was not a “child soldier”, despite what the bleading hearts say!
I think you`ve missed the point, Buck:
“A child soldier is any person under 18 years of age who is part of any kind of regular or irregular armed force or armed group in any capacity…“
So while Khadr may not fit your definitions of `child` and “soldier“, when the UN refers to child soldiers, it is referring to people such as Khadr.
Gee I guess I was a child soldier when I joined the military at 17.
Kellis, not sure where you are getting your info but it is wrong.
International human rights law
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Article 38, (1989) proclaimed: “State parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of 15 years do not take a direct part in hostilities.” However, minors who are over the age of 15 but still remain under the age of 18 are still voluntarily able to take part in combat as soldiers. The Optional protocol on the involvement of children in armed conflict to the Convention that came into force in 2002 stipulates that its State Parties “shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons below the age of 18 do not take a direct part in hostilities and that they are not compulsorily recruited into their armed forces”.[1] The Optional Protocol further obligates states to “take all feasible measures to prevent such recruitment and use, including the adoption of legal measures necessary to prohibit and criminalize such practices.” (Art 4, Optional Protocol.)[2] Likewise, under the Optional Protocol states are required to demobilize children within their jurisdiction who have been recruited or used in hostilities, and to provide assistance for their physical and psychological recovery and social reintegration. (Art 6(3) Optional Protocol.)[2]
Under Article 8.2.26 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), adopted in July 1998 and entered into force 1 July 2002; “Conscripting or enlisting children under the age of fifteen years into the national armed forces or using them to participate actively in hostilities” is a war crime.[3]
Further by Khadr’s own admission, HE VOLUNTEERED (he was 15 at the time), and he would, given the chance, go back and kill some more.
Wow, I though it was 16. Being that the prosecution was making a big deal that he was almost 16 at the time.
8 years does seem a little long when due process is considered.
Here’s a paranoid thought, Brazil, Russia, and Canada have the most fresh water.
When the merkins decide that they need it, what then?
Oops, my bad I joined when I was 16.
…even worse Hugo, what happens when they discover that it was us who inflicted Celine Dion, Jim Carrey, Avril Lavigne, Michael J. Fox, Alanis Morrissette, etc. on them.
I’d say we’ve got a bit of shock & awe coming our way.
Tim – one mans volunteering, is anothers indoctrination.
Ivan, they love her. So much, that they bought her lock, stock, and barrel.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/53/07cele…
Hugo,
When the ‘merkins decide that they need it, they will force us to give it to them. Same goes for the oil. No invasion necessary. About a dozen guys in some back room will decide the whole thing. The Prime Minister probably won’t even get invited.
Of course, if Ivan is right and we do get invaded with a front row seat to the ‘shock and awe’ treatment, then I guess we either stand in the street waving American flags when the tanks roll into town, or we all repair to our basements and start manufacturing IEDs, or we do both – wave American flags by day and manufacture IEDs by night. This strategy seems to work in other places.
I doubt you 16 and 17 year olds in the military were sent into a warzone at any point. Or lived in one.
THE AMERICANS ARE COMING, THE AMERICANS ARE COMING. OH NO.
They’ll privatize healthcare, lower taxes, get rid of the long gun registry, cancel fine programming like “Little Mosque on the Prairie” and send people like Atwood, Suzuki and George Snuffaluppagus to Guantanamo.
If anybody needs me, I’ll be sewing a 51st star on Old Glory. >; )
Ivan,
As you know, the Americans have no interest in invading Canada in order to do all those things you listed. Just as long as we don’t try to give our six months notice and pull out of NAFTA thus screwing their continental energy plan and their guaranteed access to our fossil fuels, we don’t have to worry about American ‘boots on the ground’ in the Great White North. Severe water shortages in the American South and the Great Plains make our abundant supplies of fresh water very attractive and make a water export treaty very likely in the near future. As long as we ‘play ball’ and negotiate such a treaty with our friends to the south we won’t have to worry about American occupation forces launching a preemptive grab for water. I won’t even go into the conflicting claims soon to be made on the Arctic resources newly available in what we’ve always called the ‘Canadian Arctic Archipelago’ as a result of climate change.
However, if we were ever inclined to assert our sovereignty and deny the Americans access to these two commodities, I think we’d get a prompt lesson in realpolitik American style.
I think you should know that I don’t dislike Americans as individuals. How could I? My wife is a U.S. citizen and my two adult children hold dual citizenship and all three vote in American elections. I have many friends and relatives who are Americans. But if their government should do the unthinkable I would have to act, regardless of the personal cost.
I understand that, in the event of an occupation, your sympathies would lie with the invaders. You wouldn’t be alone I’m afraid. But we patriots in the resistance would need every available able bodied citizen. I’m sure we could use someone of your obvious intelligence and tenacity, in the event that such a scenario should come to pass.
I don’t want to write you off just yet as a future ‘Vichy’ collaborationist. I urge you to reconsider your position on this.
If you should change your mind, you can reach us at:
Canadianpatriotsbattalion@johnnycanuck.ca
Pav, I may have not because we were not in any hostilities at the time, but there sure as hell were during WWI, WWII, and Korea. In fact many underaged tried to join and some successfully.
As for the Yanks, they’ve been here for a long time. Golden Arches and similar outfits. Cola companies, car companies, not to mention what comes out of Hollywood.
This guy is a terrorist.
Why get caught up in whether he should be called a child soldier.
He is a Canadian that went to a foreign land & joined with terrorists in that country to get training & opportunity to kill American, didn’t matter if they were American soldiers… as long as they were Americans is how I read it.
I personally believe when a terrorist has that kind of commitment, when we catch them & it is proven, kill them. THat’s the only thing you can do to a rabid dog is to kill it. So what does it matter how old he was or what they call themselves or what we label them as…a piece of shit by any other name, will smell just as bad .
I don’t watch hockey either, so that’s two of our national pastimes where I have “conscientious objector” status. So, I’m probably not a “real Canadian” at all. I figure, if the insufferable antics of Trudeau and that mealey-mouthed clod Jean Poutine couldn’t provoke our neighbors into considering “regime change”, we don’t have to worry about M1Abrams tanks pulling down statues of Tommy Douglas anytime soon. I don’t worry about us becoming the 51st state anymore than I worry about us becoming the world’s coldest, politest islamic republic.
“Like, really sorry Buddy, but we gotta stone ya to death fer the crime of apostasy, eh. But you can be proud of the fact that this is genuine, locally produced granite from the Canadian Shield. Costs 3 times as much as the stuff we used to get from China so yer taxes are gonna go up. Which kinda sucks fer yer wife, since she can’t work anymore cuz she’s only a woman y’know. Have a nice day and Allah Akhbar, eh”
Not too likely, right? And it goes without saying that if any Prime Minister was stupid and/or arrogant enough to implement policies that would piss off our: closest neighbor, largest trading partner, co-owner of the longest piss-poorly defended border in the world, and the folks to whom we have sub-contracted primary responsibility for our national defence – in the name of sovereignty, the country would be looking at far more serious problems than the 82nd Airborne dropping on Ottawa/Hull.
Oooohhhhh Ivan, we are going to have some fun over a few beer.
You joining us Commandante? Maybe s.h.i.t Devil too.
Someone say beer ? ♥
i ♥ mouse ears ♥ ™ you gentleman debaters
Hugo,
I’ve been alluded to here as a “left-wing gas bag” which isn’t all that far from the truth. I tend to go on and on about things that concern me and I have trouble letting others get a word in edgewise. I’ve had drinks thrown in my face and been cussed out a few times in bars for expressing my views and sticking to my guns, although most of this was the work of my then future wife and in almost three decades of living with me she has finally taught me some manners.
But I do like to drink and I do like beer so you never know . . .
I rather like Paingirl’s concept of gentleman debaters, so I do owe El Jefe an apology – for my theory that he was a Montrealman alter-ego. And I would never waste good booze by throwing it in anyone’s face but my own.
Well if Fallout lore has any shred of truth to it, we’ll be fully annexed in 2076. 😛 http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
Who the fuck gives a shit about a treasonous, marauding punk like Omer Khadr? Under the rules of war, he should have been executed on the spot for running around a battlefield without representing any country (marauding). He wasn’t an Afghan protecting his country from invaders, he was (and unfortunately still is) a Canadian fighting our allies. Also, I can’t believe all the anti-American nonsense on this thread. The US is a close ally of ours, with very similar cultural, political, and economic values, and with whom we share far more than with a bunch of backwards, fanatical, women-hating retards in the world’s backwater. Khadr should have ceased to be a Canadian problem the instant he committed treason. Not long ago, people were shot for that. Also not long ago, soldiers (real soldiers) were only 16 years old, fighting in trenches in France.