My little sibling went to register for the first day of grade 11 yesterday. In order to get their schedule and pay school fees, the students were sent through either the MALE door or the FEMALE door.
Because why organize something alphabetically or by grade when you can force kids to make pointless distinctions in their genders, right?
Maybe you read this and think it is pointless that it even bothers me, but if even one person looked at those doors and was made to feel bad about themselves when forced to choose one, it’s a damn shame that the school couldn’t find a more thoughtful, current way to set up their first day of school. —Him or Her?
This article appears in Sep 2-8, 2010.
no fucking way is this a serious bitch.
Are you effing kidding; what is this some kind of gender bias issue? STFU!
and would you geniuses kindly enlighten us as to why it would be done this way in the first place?
I’m sorry, but I’m one of those assholes who thinks men should be men and women should be women.
Well, at least you realize you should apologize for being so narrow-minded, GF.
Please, I just graduated high school, and if having to decide whether you’re a dude or not was the worst thing you went through, then I think you’ll get over it. (Obviously not you specifically)
Wow, we have to coddle everybody now? How about the idea that difficult choices and situations in our early lives prime us for being capable adults, regardless of how we gender-identify? People have to have a chance to feel some pain and have some struggles. Its good for us. I’m not saying anyone should be marginalized or discriminated against. I think that you must be too close the issue (which you’re skating around in any event), being that you said sibling rather than bro or sis. Get out of your bubble! And take your sibling with you, out into the big scary world.
“People have to have a chance to feel some pain and have some struggles. Its good for us.” I agreeee
Yeah, great logic, Booer. In that vein, why not go back to having separate water fountains for blacks and whites so, you know, the black folks have a chance to feel some pain and have some struggles? Silly minorities, always hoping that they might be considered, when really, they could be gaining REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE.
I’m trying hard to resist slamming you over the ridiculous statements that you’re making, and instead suggest that you try to wrap your head around the idea that there are, in fact, kids in high school that struggle with issues of gender identity and that it can be monumentally difficult for them, not to mention how pointless and potentially problematic it is to force people to fit into auxiliary groupings like that.
I just love it when people who have no concept of someone else’s lived experience as a minority or marginalized person use the old “just get over it” line. So original, so inspiring…
*second paragraph directed at GF.
me0w, I clearly wrote that I don’t believe that ANYONE should be marginalized or discriminated against. Also, with respect to the type of institutionalized racism you referred to, that was/is done sytemically and with malice of forethought. It would take pretty huge leap of logic to infer that the reason the school decided to organize the first day back the way it did was solely based on the hatred of those with gender identity issues. Kindly remove your head from your ass.
Did you really need to have me spell that out for you?
Yes, you clearly wrote that you don’t believe anyone should be marginalized or discriminated against, and then went on to basically say that if someone who is transgendered or struggles with gender-identity issues feels marginalized or discriminated against by such a situation, that they should just get over it and relish the opportunity to experience some genuine pain.
And of course, you’re so right, because obviously, living in their little minority bubble, they will rarely have that opportunity. It’s not like a public school should be an environment that promotes awareness and sensitivity and welcoming to all or anything crazy like that.
As an aside, it should be pretty obvious that I wasn’t equating the OP’s situation with institutionalized racism, but merely pointing out the flaw in your logic by suggesting you take it one step further. In fact, I haven’t actually even bothered to comment on the OP yet because there’s been too many glaringly obvious comments to take issue with, so don’t be so hasty to infer what my opinion on it may be.
male and female doors hey, bet the fonz and fonzette were behind them, right? ey.
But you did compare the OP’s situation with institutionalized racism when you implied that my comments on the that same situation were tantamount to a ringing endorsement of such an offensive and inhumane system. You can’t now separate the two by backpedaling.
The flaw lies in your logic, not mine. As a simple example, imagine this: there are ten random people before you. You must identify those with gender issues simply by looking. Can you? Now you must indentify the visible minorities. Can you? Do you see what I’m saying?
If we can agree that in its simplest form racism is selective or complete discrimination based primarily on physical attributes then can we also agree that a person from a VISIBLE minority cannot become LESS VISIBLE in that same physically distinguishing way? This is undeniably true.
The same cannot be said of non-visible minorities, of which there many. While I have no expectation, or desire, that people with gender issues should feel the need to hide who and what they are from the world, the fact remains that in a practical sense they can do so if they choose to. In other words they have the option to be as open or private with that aspect of themselves as they choose. This is where the comparison you’ve drawn breaks down because the same is not true if you are discriminated against for something you cannot hide, such as the color of your skin.
I stand by my opinion. No one deserves to be systematically punished for who or what they are (which clearly wasn’t happening at the OP’s sib’s school), but I believe its unhealthy for a person to be held with kid gloves their whole life. That’s just another way of telling a kid they aren’t “normal”.
We should be telling them there is no “normal” in the first place, only natural, so let’s move on.
Statstically, its the easiest way to divide up the students by approximately half.
“We should be telling them there is no “normal” in the first place, only natural, so let’s move on.” well said…
Although for the most part I agree with Meow. I just really don’t understand why a school would choose to do this by gender instead of alphabetically. Who does that?
Well, OP, people generally either have vaginas or they have penises. It’s a simple way of dividing a mass of people and organising them quickly. I don’t see the problem. I think you’re over-reacting. I doubt the schools were trying to indoctrinate them into certain gender roles.
Schools are bureaucracies. They are the first bureaucracy that most people will have to navigate in our society. What better place to be introduced to the trait that all bureaucracies (from schools to governments) share: a weakness and affinity for meaningless procedure and policy.
Most believe that we send students to public school primarily to get educated. I believe that the real purpose in sending students to public school is to train them: when to speak and when not to, when to stand up and when to sit down, how to regurgitate partially digested ‘knowledge’, and most importantly, which door to pass through on the road to education.
It does make sense to have the students proceed through separate doors based on gender if the students are being strip searched on the other side. But then there is no such thing as a legal strip search in school. This is very puzzling.
If you aren’t puzzled by the events related in this bitch, I’m afraid your curiosity about the world around you has been surgically removed (perhaps by the school system?) or you have the intellect of a potato.
Hmm do i go into the male door or the female door????
At grade 11, and you dont know what sex you are your dumb.
I may be missing something here but don’t they make this choice every time they head to the washroom during school?
whichever door they chose for their business should likely be the same door they chose here.
unless they have transgendered and ‘genderificly confused people’ washrooms now as well.
Seriously? Someone is really taking issue with students being divided into boys and girls lines? I’m all for acceptance and tolerance, but this bitch goes a little too far. The tiny percentage of transgendered students should, in fact, “suck it up” in this particular instance. It’s a big, cruel world out there and from time to time you’re going to have to state your gender.
Upset over a line up??? What on earth are these students going to do when they have to use the bathroom???
Where would the flamers go? Through the wall in between the doors?
No Sebastian, that would be only for the students hoping to attend Hogwarts. Flamers should consult their genitalia. Innies to the right. Outties to the left.
They did this when I was in grade 12. It seemed every year they tried different techniques on the first day of school because we had so many people. I think 1500-1800 students. The last year I was there, they let the grade 10s go in on their own day, and the 11s and 12s did the boy-girl line-up. When you’re dealing with that many people, it’s really the only way to do it, considering we only had 3 big doors for everyone to go through in the gym. Boys came in one door, girls came in another, and everyone left out of the last door. Makes sense to me. It didn’t offend any students and some girls wondered on over to the male entrance and vice-versa; no one seemed to care. Our school tried to do the alphabetical thing; but it was very confusing as there were like 10+ different line ups around the school. And the line-up with the “Macs” and “Mcs” was massive. The fact that someone is offended by this is astonishing. Like someone said, we choose to go in the “boys” or “girls” washroom everyday, how is this any different? Have fun with life if you can’t deal with this!
OP you are a stupid fucktard if you found that offensive or thought a child would find that offensive. If you are offended by that you are not fit for society and should live in a cabin in the woods somewhere and speak to the gender-confused squirrels all around you. what a fucking waste.
“I just love it when people who have no concept of someone else’s lived experience as a minority or marginalized person use the old “just get over it” line. So original, so inspiring…”
You can go fuck yourself Me0w, you don’t know me so don’t tell me what I think and know.
This is a North American problem, and don’t fuckin try and tell me it isn’t. Only in North America do people have enough fuckin time on their useless hands to convince themselves they aren’t the gender THAT THEY ARE.
Forgive my vulgarity, but this issue is fuckin moronic. You’re telling me a female can be born in a male body? Sorry, doesn’t work that way.
Congratulations on mastering the use of expletives in place of valid points, GF. I don’t need to know you to know that you are more interested in being insulting and invalidating anyone else’s opinion and experience than you are in becoming more knowledgeable and sensitive to transgender or gender-identity issues.
Even a surface-skim read on any of these issues would enlighten you to the fact that transgender people exist all over the world, number in the millions, and that there are plenty of scientists and doctors who are working to better understand the biological factors behind a person’s certainty that they were born in the wrong body. But hey, I can see how being an ignorant douche on an internet forum could be way more attractive to you, so good luck with that.
For the record, I don’t think that the situation described in the OP is particularly shocking or offensive, but merely shows poor judgement on the part of the school’s administration. There are a million other ways they could organize kids, I’m sure they could find some suggestions on their “Breaking ‘Em Down and Lining ‘Em Up” handbook that would be a little less questionable.
As usual, the Commandante makes a very eloquent point and, perhaps unusually, I agree with him wholeheartedly.
Richard Dawkins: Garrison residence. Can you call… back later, please?
Cartman: [voice from the devastated future] It’s an emergency! It’s an emergency!
Richard Dawkins: [stops] An emergency?
Cartman: I need to speak to Mr. Garrison right now!
Richard Dawkins: [moans, continually having sex] I’m sorry, but Mr. Garrison has passed away. Mrs. Garrison is the only person here and she’s rather tied up at the moment.
Cartman: [shouts] Look, asshole, this is a real emergency! Just pass the phone to whatever Garrison wants to call himself since the sex-change operation!
Richard Dawkins: [stops, shocked] Sex-change operation?
Ms. Garrison: [in a same shocking manner] Uh oh.
Richard Dawkins: [pulls out and protects his genitals, horrified] Uuuuugh! You’re a man?
Ms. Garrison: Not anymore. I’ve been fixed.
[Mr. Dawkins runs for his clothes, using them to protect his genitals]
Ms. Garrison: Richard, hold on. I can explain.
Richard Dawkins: Explain? How can I be so stupid?
[he runs out of the house with his pants on, carrying the rest of his clothes]
Ms. Garrison: [chasing Mr. Dawkins with her robe on] Richard, come back, please!
[Dawkins does not return, and Ms. Garrison loses her faith in atheism in a flash]
Ms. Garrison: [shouts] Well, go ahead and leave, you atheist faggot! Have fun mocking God in hell! You queer!
I find it kinda odd that schools would use gender as their organization criteria.
However, I’d hardly think this was bitch-worthy. Like zZz said: people make decisions based on their gender when they go to the can in public.
Anyone wanna put bets down on whether or not OP’s a women’s studies major?
Who would want to stand in the ‘No sure yet’ line ?
Or the ‘In between’ line
Or the ‘None of the above’ line.
Or the ‘Both’ line.
Well, they could’ve done it alphabetically, but some kids in grade 11 taught in that academic utopia of NS couldn’t figure that out unless there was an app for that.
If in grade 11 you’re slighted because you’re asked to separate by gender, then god help you when you hit the real world.
I suspect the OP is a self-entitled, small minded, insecure wee wee.
The gender neutrals could take it errr go through the back door.
If both doors lead to the same place…what bloody difference does it make ?
Would it make a difference if you stood on your hands & walked on them backwards through the door of your gender, if you end up in the same place ?
Man this is just lame.
Also wanted to mention to Commandante E – “Bingo”
Are you kidding me. Find something worth while to bitch about. There are bigger problems in the world then what door you brother/sister walks through. I laugh at your frustration
It’s so little douche bags couldn’t take pics up some girls’ skirts leading to another Ken Fells situation. Personally I’d like to see more chumps get their just deserts like the punk Fells had to school.
If you are born a girl, then you are a girl. If you are born a boy, then you are a boy. The only middle ground is hermaphrodite, but that is so rare as to be disqualified. Otherwise you are the gender you were born as, full stop. You might claim to be “transgendered” or a woman living in a man’s body (or vice versa) but you will always, always genetically be the gender you were born as. Also, no matter what surgical or hormonal changes you might inflict upon yourself, you will never ever have the experiences a real girl or a real boy has had. You’ll be a girl trying to live as a boy or a boy trying to live as a girl. I can happily be tolerant of people who choose to live this way, be polite to them, and treat them as human beings, but I do not believe they can be classified as the opposite gender.
More brings up a good point. If the doors lead to the same place, then who cares. If you’re a transgendered person or a hermaphrodite, pick a damn line. If you’re unsure, ask yourself “Does something meaty (sauf beef curtains … oh man, didn’t want to go there) dangle between my legs?” if yes, you’re a boy. If no, you’re a girl. Simple.
I don’t think people are grasping the differences between sex and gender…
I remember gym class… the girls had to buy/wear uniforms in school colours, but the boys could wear their own shorts and tees. When we asked we were told “Because girls are more judgmental about fashion and we don’t want anyone to feel bad because they don’t have enough money for designer clothes.” There were no school uniforms however. True story. Sir John A. in Scarborough ON circa 1983.
If that was directed at me then NGF, yes I get the difference I just choose to look at is as a sex distinction rather than a whole gender issue. I suppose alphabetically would have been a more diplomatic way of going about things.
In the grand scope of things this means nothing, picking a door means nothing. Though I suppose to me, who can make an easy choice it means nothing. I understand OP’s frustrations but you have to learn to cope. The world is not built to fit you and your special circumstance. Pick a door, walk through it. That should not change you, or what you think you are. Easy to say right, as I’m no longer a lost adolescent, but only through stuff like that will they learn to cope.
This is getting a little too mother nurture blah blah blah shite for me.
Whatever.
I’m with you, OP. That’s a dated way to separate a group, and I know for a fact there are trans-identified students who will see that as one more punch to the gut when they’re put through the wrong door (and called the wrong name and pronoun, bullied, hurt, etc – and it happens, trans kids are treated like absolute shit in school). It’s not the worst thing in the world, no, but it’s a great example of how we insist on classifying people with insufficient and irrelevant categories.
Guess Monty hall was not available to m.c.the event!!
The OB’s right, there should have been a third door marked “It”.