While I agree with your reaction to those men you met on the street; I do think your title is missing one very important word “Some”. Some men behave poorly, Some women behave poorly also. BY throwing us all into one category, you become the same bigoted type of person that you criticize.
Halifax is a wonderful city with all sorts of people in it. Mostly nice open minded and kind but, I can’t help but wonder if you were seeking out idiots when you walk down a “so-so” area of Halifax on your way to a pub and think that there wouldn’t be a few dangerous people lurking about. It almost seems like you were looking for a confrontation. I like the North End hipsters haven but it is an area that blends in with some sketchy people.
I know in a perfect world that you should be able to travel anywhere and do what you like but, this is the real world and I worry about you when you put yourself in these situations.
If I was in your life, I would beg you to be a bit more aware of your surroundings and less concerned with finding ways to man-bash.. —Just a guy
This article appears in Jun 13-19, 2013.
all of the men at my choir group at church behave like gentlemen.
maybe if you stayed close to church you wouldn’t meet these dangerous folk.
did I mention I’m part of a choir group at my church?
^^^^^^^^^^^
Uh oh!! does anyone know the number for a good exorcist?
We had to disband our church choir. All the top tenors kept going out to the park during practice.
but not in the park… near the entrances with the bushes…
^^^^^^^^^^^
LOLOLOLOL!
lol oh man, the snark..
I just finished reading this article. Kind of dirty that the headline is “Men are behaving like assholes and I’m sick of it”. Those guys weren’t behaving like assholes, they were and still are assholes. I guess the headline “assholes are behaving like assholes” wouldn’t have gotten as many clicks.
Guys with neck tattoos double fisting beers and cursing at random passers by outside Gus’s Pub are not representative of Halifax’s male population. Personally I wouldn’t walk around in that neighborhood at night and I consider myself tougher than your average bear.
I don’t necessarily think the writer was out looking for a reason to man bash but I agree with OP, in a perfect world we could all walk around and be safe all the time anywhere, but there are some places that happen to have a lot of dirtbags kickin around and the only thing I can think of is to avoid putting yourself at risk and stay out of those areas. I’ve lived in a lot of so called bad neighborhoods and I never walk very far, it’s just not a good idea.
I have a real problem with male bashing. Especially coming from whiny, silly women who can’t deal with the young bloods feeling their freakin’ oats – it’s only been happening since the beginning of time, you numb twits.
The writer of the original piece just wanted to share with the world how she, personally, made, the city a little bit safer for wimmin.
What a Gal!
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfskbtLUR51…
Just so there’s no confusion, I’m not saying she deserved to be harassed by these dickless wonders, or that people shouldn’t feel safe, even in the wee hours, in a sketchy part of town crawling with drunks. If a guy had responded the way she did, he’d have either had to kick some ass, or taken a kicking. Happened to my nephew in that area during the swarming craze a few years ago. Crossed paths with some drunken goons, doesn’t matter what he said or did, he got stomped.
REFINING THE CONCEPT
“I like the North End hipsters (sic) haven but it is an area that blends in with some sketchy people.” Just a Guy
I found your concept of the North End hipsters’ (note the apostrophe) haven compelling but, at the same time, I also found “some sketchy people” a bit too broad in its reach. Surely the concept could be refined? Surely there are degrees of “sketchiness” which you might explore for a more fine-grained analysis? I think my concept of the “Halifax Underclass” might be a good place to start. Let me know if you require assistance.
Just a minor point: Isn’t it a matter of the sketchy people blending in with the North End hipsters’ haven rather than the haven blending in with the sketchy people? People “blend in”; havens don’t. Do try and be coherent.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
You’re saying women shouldn’t walk in certain areas of the street because they’ll get harassed and if they do walk in those areas they should expect–nay, deserve–to get harassed? You’re a great person. And Just because someone points out ill treatment doesn’t mean they’re bashing all men either.
I would advise ANYONE male or female to stay out of certain areas on foot after midnight. I went to a bar in fairview which is like a 2 minute walk from where I live a few weeks back, we took a cab home, it was like $5. We didn’t want to risk anything by walking because it was known to be rough area where there had been some violent incidents. It’s called common sense.
If someone wants to make a point without lumping all members of a certain group together, a better choice of wording could have been used in the headline. These guys were drunks, likely drug addicts, likely with criminal records. A run in with them does not warrant the statement “men are acting like assholes” That being said Halifax does seem to have some really stupid obnoxious drunks. I’ve seen lots of guys and lots of girls cause lots of problems on the bar scene, problems that have resulted in much worse things than street harrassment. I’m not running around making statements about all halifax women or men based on a these interactions with a few stupid drunk idiots.
TJ, are you really a bear? I LOVE bears! Meet me in the woods… errrr… bushes!
Couldn’t have said it better myself, OP.
The thing she doesn’t point out is that she was a block or two from “the square”. Just because you hipster up a shitty neighbourhood doesn’t mean it’s not still a shitty neighbourhood. It’s kinda like putting lipstick on a pig.
Everyone should be able to walk anywhere they want without an inkling of fear, but that’s not how life is. There are, and always will be, lowlife scumbags that get their dicks hard by intimidating anyone they can. I think it’s a little judgemental to think it’s ok to single out a gender and criticize/scold us for the actions of three lowlifes.
http://funnypicturesplus.com/wp-content/up…
Two small points of clarification from the author of the article (and much to my hesitation to get involved in the discussion):
1. I did not get to choose the title of the piece and by no means do I intend to imply that “all” men behave like assholes. Should this not go without saying, though? I know there’s been a recent trend of articles dissecting gender issues/slut shaming/victim blaming/street harassment that all implicate men quite negatively, and I know as a “good guy” it must get tiring & don’t necessarily blame you for going on the defensive—but can we not make a caveat for articles of this nature along the lines of, “YES, we know, not ALL men”, to avoid stopping the discussion in its tracks before it starts?
2. I don’t believe this is a matter of nice neighbourhood vs. bad neighbourhood, or hooligans vs. upstanding folk. Halifax is a fantastic city and the people here are largely wonderful (did you catch the part where the guys said they weren’t from here?). It’s a matter of power dynamics and the fact that (SOME-BUT-NOT-ALL) men have seemingly no conception of their ability to frighten and intimidate – regardless of the street it happens on. Pointing out that we were ‘asking for confrontation’ by being in a particular neighbourhood is pretty unfair, untrue, and it frankly misses the point.
I wrote this about a specific incident, fully aware that it involves distinct, individual people and not All Guys Ever, but I believe it’s one where you can stand to reasonably extrapolate a point or two about overarching issues of street safety and gendered harassment. I appreciate if you disagree, and thanks for the commentary.
While you were blah blah blahing at these douchebags with your university speak they could have easily punched you to the curb and left you for dead. Get over yourself and use some common sense.
When you say “not ALL” it really sounds to me like you’re thinking “but most, or a significant portion”
Fact is 90-99 out of 100 men would never dream of doing something like this, and we are sick and tired of being grouped in with rapists, perverts and mysoginists. I’ve been hearing women tell me about how evil and sick men are since I can remember, it’s not true, it’s damaging to boys growing up and it makes matters worse, in my opinion.
I’m about 6 ft, 190 pounds and know how to fight. I don’t necessarily feel unsafe very often but I would NEVER:
a) walk around the north end after midnight or b) engage with a druken stranger with neck tattoos.
You could have and probably should have just kept walking, maybe say something like “sorry I’m from out of town”.
I’ve been tempted several times to put people like this in their place. One guy groped my buddy’s girlfriend outside the dome and I was very close to stomping him out but if I had gotten hurt, or hurt him, yes, I WOULD BE PARTIALLY AT FAULT FOR PUTTING MYSELF AT RISK. I decided that he wasn’t worth it and I’d advise you to do the same.
I’m not asking or suggesting that you or anyone else do anything I wouldn’t do, and again, I’m more than capable of handling myself, even if the person is bigger or scarier than me, I still don’t feel like I should get into it with strangers on the street at night.
You say we’re missing the point, what exactly is the point? That some people think it’s cool to be sketchy, scary, intimidating drunken idiots? Well duh! All we can do is take certain measures to protect ourselves, or take the risk of taking them on, which is stupid. I mean you could have called the cops if you really feared that these guys might hurt or harrass more people, but you decided that the best bourse of action would be to write in to a local newspaper about it and put a “men are perps, women are victims” spin on it. This problem effects men and women and it is perpetrated by men and women.
Articles like this don’t tell us anything we don’t already know, and just make you look like a harpie. We are aware that there is a problem but any time we try to offer solutions we are called victim blamers and made to look almost or just as bad as the dirtbag perps, so offer us a realistic solution or accept that the world is not safe and you that you could be living on the south side of Chicago or in friggin North Korea. Asking you to exercise common sense is not a form of oppression, discrimination or margenilization. I will give the same advice to anyone, regardless of age, gender, race, sexual orientation or physical strength.
If you don’t follow my advice and something bad happens to you, I STILL won’t say it’s your fault. It’s the fault of the person who did it, but that doesn’t mean that saying “play it safe, don’t walk alone in areas that are known to be dangerous late at night and try not to talk to strangers, particularly drunk, physically intimidating ones with prison tats” is victim blaming.
Good post, Tommy. I had an argument with a previous girlfriend because we had gotten into a debate about sexual assault (her being a previous victim I later discovered), and it went along the same lines as your post above.
I said basically the same things, “It’s not your fault you were sexually assaulted (or beaten/robbed/cat-called), and the perpetrator should be dealt with appropriately (jail time/fine/public service…). But also, I would be wise for people (guys & girls) to not go downtown by themselves and get incredibly drunk. We know where dangerous situations can occur, and we know where dangerous people tend to congregate (ie: The Dome, The Square, The Park, The Hill…). People can’t expect everywhere to be safe, and certainly shouldn’t expect any sort of immunity from danger/harm.”
“I WOULD BE PARTIALLY AT FAULT FOR PUTTING MYSELF AT RISK” – She was adamant that victims were completely exempt from responsibility, no matter the circumstances -If I get shot because I was walking home through a notoriously bad neighbourhood, I have to accept that some small part of me getting shot was my own fault. If I go to the dome (imagine The Captain is a lady) and I’m getting groped left right and center, I have to accept that part of the blame falls on me for putting my sexy lady body on the dance floor with a bunch of horny, axe-blasted, ignorant douche bags just looking to bust a nut.
Of course, The Captain was quickly demonized for blaming everything that happened on her (sarcasm), and we were forced to part ways (breaths sigh of relief)
The arguments against the original article have included:
1) you shouldn’t have engaged with that sketchy neck-tattooed guy (neck tattoos mean violent socio-path, murderer and/or rapist IN ALL CASES).
2) you shouldn’t have been in that sketchy neighbourhood (further perpetuating negative stereotypes about our community and community-dwellers).
3) Men are assaulted too! (Wahhhhhh!)
In other words, “DUUUURRRRGHHHHHHH *** I CAN’T HEAR YOU(R LEGITIMATE CLAIMS)”
More victim blaming. None of the above claims are legitimate or on point. The point of the article in question was that women and men face very different risks, based on their sex, REGARDLESS of place or time. As a typical male, I can be in public at any time and place and feel more safe and secure from cat calling and perceived sexual threats than most women. This is because women don’t sexually assault men as frequently and because heterosexual men do not cat-call other men.
ok canned but what do you propose we DO about it?!
When people are regularly shot up in a community it becomes a fact that its a bad neighborhood not a stereotype.
Canned you’re a fool for thinking that everyone else is generalizing as much as you are.
‘men are assulted too (Wahhhhh!)’ ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!! You just made assault into a joke, which is what you’re trying to defend. Hypocrite!
I don’t mind saying that I hope you get assaulted canned. It might teach you a lesson.
The Captain took the liberty of editing your post for you, canned. Enjoy!
The arguments against the original article have included:
1) you shouldn’t have engaged with that sketchy neck-tattooed guy (neck tattoos mean violent socio-path, murderer and/or rapist IN SOME CASES, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHICH ONES, SO WE’LL PLAY IT SAFE AND AVOID POTENTIALS 🙂
2) you shouldn’t have been in that sketchy neighbourhood ‘late at night’ (further perpetuating proven demographics about our low-income communities and the criminal-dwellers who gravitate to those areas because of economics, and a whole plethora of other reasons).
3) Men are assaulted too! (Wahhhhhh!(not sarcasm))… No, seriously, everyone can be assulted. It’s not funny. It makes people cry, “Wahhhhhh!”
In other words, “DUUUURRRRGHHHHHHH *** I CAN’T HEAR YOU(R ILLEGITIMATE CLAIMS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NAIVE VIEW OF THE SITUATION/WORLD)”
More victim blaming (Yea, it’s partially their fault, and totally justified). None of the above claims are legitimate or on point (okay, if you make a claim like that you have to substantiate it or we won’t give it any credit). The point of the article in question was that women and men face very different risks, based on their sex (No shit! Are you just figuring this out?), REGARDLESS of place or time (Ummm, no. Boys and Girls, as well as individuals, face different levels of threat completely dependant on the place they are and the time it is). As a typical male, I can be in public at any time (how about 3:00am) and place (Highfield Park?) and feel more safe and secure from cat calling and perceived sexual threats than most women (as far as I know, but seeing as I’m not a woman maybe I shouldn’t offer up their opinions for them). This is because women don’t sexually assault men as frequently (and it’s nothing to get upset about if they do… right? Right?!) and because heterosexual men do not cat-call other men (Never. Ever. Period. The End).
1, 2, and 3 are all legitimate concerns on their own but they are illegitimate criticisms of the original article. That was my point. Pointing out that this neighbourhood is bad, that people who look a certain way behave a certain way or that groups other than women are victimized are all separate concerns that do not form adequate criticisms of the women who, according to people like you, have the audacity to lament a fear of sexual victimization that most adult men are fortunate enough to never experience.
TJ: I suggest we, as young white men, stop worrying about being categorized as evil people. As Louis CK once suggested, and I paraphrase: we lucked out being born white and male, so we should enjoy the ride while it lasts. Meanwhile, it would help to empathize with those who, historically speaking, have not lucked out (women, minorities, etc).
Captain: regarding your retort to (1, 2, 3), I suggest you re-read my post in the context of the second paragraph. Failing an enlightenment, read the first paragraph of this post. Second, I would feel safer from sexual intimidation (verbal or physical) than a “typical” woman, even if it were 3AM and even in Highfield Park. By typical I mean a woman closer to me in socioeconomic status, not a women who lives in Highfield. Regarding the rest of your post, most of which is irrelevant. Yes, on some rare occasions, perhaps fuelled by ecstasy or LSD or some other unexpected desire for sexual exploration, straight men cat call other straight men. Yes women who rape are also bad people. None of that is relevant to the fact that women face a higher risk of being raped or sexually intimidated REGARDLESS of where they visit, what time they travel, with whom they associate or what little they wear.
There’s few reasonable actions that a woman can take (short of being a recluse) to reduce her risk of being raped to that of a man, hence the “moral hazard” criticism inherent in blaming a woman for fearing sexual intimidation lacks merit.
Also, my use of the adverb, “regardless”, allows for dependence on time and place, but ignores it for the present analysis. In stating “regardless” I am, in effect, comparing the likely experiences of boys and girls (men and women) in the same place and time and, for the heck of it, who share similar backgrounds. In this context, I am arguing that the source of injustice is the fact that women and men face very different risks to their sexual welfare (rape, cat-calling, verbal assault, etc), holding constant place, time and socio-demographic characteristics. I thought the captain would understand the use of “regardless” but apparently he (she? I’ll assume “he”) did not.
Anyway, much of the data, available on this thing called “The Internet”, shows that that this pattern holds across countries and over time. I urge you to use a tool called “Google Scholar” to explore the facts underlying the claims of sexual injustice, and then reflect on this discussion.
Good posts Canned, Tommy, Captain.
Canned is absolutely right in the sense that there is a level of victim blaming involved in the responses.
At the same time, I can completely understand why Tommy & Captain wrote what they wrote because without a doubt, we all have a part to play in our own safety. There’s no denying that.
BUT……
What gets many people riled up is that as women, since we were old enough to talk we’ve been told:
we need to be afraid of strange men; never, ever leave your drinks alone; don’t drink with men you don’t know; don’t get too drunk with men you do know; don’t get too drunk; don’t drink at all!; never walk alone at night; if you find yourself alone at night, don’t ever, ever, engage with a stranger, no matter how polite they look; DEFINITELY don’t engage with scary-looking dudes!; be sure to return a friendly ‘hi’/engage in conversation when out and about, even if it’s getting late, lest you come across as a feminist bitch; go out to clubs in groups; don’t ever leave your girlfriends alone, especially if they are drunk; don’t wear that top/dress/skirt/(insert other clothing item of choice) because it looks like you’re asking for sex; don’t expect to be able to make out with someone, then say you’re not interested in sex, and expect him to be ok with it/DO expect to be able to make out with someone, then say you’re not interested in sex, and expect him to be ok with it…I could go on.
Now all of this probably sounds (mostly) fine to many of you – perfectly reasonable, even.
But I’ll ask you this: why, when these are the messages that women have been hearing from basically everyone since forever, is sexual assault so prevalent?
If we take a moment to stop and think about it, it’s perfectly logical: the usual victim-blaming hasn’t worked in the prevention of sexual assault, doesn’t work – full stop.
[Side note: it has worked in the sense that many assault victims blame themselves for what’s happened to them, so I guess it’s been effective in that way. Also: if anyone argues that if we ‘threw out the dos/don’ts for women, we’d have a lot more sexual assaults’ they’ve missed the fucking point].
If we want assaults against women to stop, perhaps it’s time to take a different tactic.
I think it’s time we start educating young men & women about what consent means. And that maybe we need to shift our focus from telling women all the things they can do to *avoid* sexual assault to explaining to boys and men why it’s not cool to assault women.
To explain to men & women why, in spite of the messages we see every day, women are not merely here for male pleasure. (You can say this to a guy but when he sees 5 messages objectifying or demeaning women to every 1 female-positive message, which message do you think is going to get through? Women see these messages, too, and it absolutely has an effect on them.)
Ultimately we need to change the way both boys/men and girl/women see their place in the world and how they perceive their relationships with each other.
Men are sent just as many ridiculous messages as women about what constitutes a “real man” and what doesn’t. It’s not helpful to anyone.
I think focusing on these things, as opposed to the same old victim-blaming, is a good place to start.
na, sorry canned. I don’t take kindly to being lumped in as being part of the problem when I want the same things that any reasonable person wants: less victimes. Just because I disagree with you on how we get there doesn’t mean I should feel like a POS. There is a culture right now that makes a habit of shaming men, and I’m sick of it.
It just feels like there is no winning when you’re a man these days, you live a good life and treat others well, and then suggest ways to avoid those who don’t, you’re an a-hole, who might as well be one of these people who harrasses or assults women. This is a problem that needs to be solved together, every time I get involved in any discussion about gender inequity issues I get my head verbally blown off. It’s almost as though some people would rather have a reason to compain than work on a solution.
Obviously what people like you propose doesn’t work. Telling bad people (and good people alike) not to do bad things doesn’t work. Otherwise we would have no need for a police force or justice system. I still can’t for the life of me see what is so f’ing bad about telling people to use common sense, and if I give that same advice to members of every group I don’t see how I’m discriminating against one group any more than the next. Yes, obviously women are at a higher risk for things like sex assault/harassment, however the bottom line is that we are all at certain levels of risk at all times and must act accordingly.
Like I said, I’d tell anyone, male, female, short, tall, weak or strong to take these same precautions, yes, admittedly for different reasons. I had a friend get murdered on his way home through north end Dartmouth on foot. He was 21 years old or so and one of the greatest guys I’ve ever met. He’s dead. It doesn’t matter whose fault it is at this point. He’s never coming back, so if me telling people to make their safety a priority makes me a victim blamer I will wear that title proudly, because I believe it saves lives.
For you to imply that me giving advice to keep those I care about out of harms way is in any way wrong is just insanity in my opinion.
Again, nothing you are proposing is going to make a difference, as far as I can tell, we will never be able to rid the world of POSs like this, so we must all do our best to avoid danger at all costs.
“I suggest we, as young white men, stop worrying about being categorized as evil people.” HOW THE EFF IS THAT GOING TO EFFING HELP ANYTHING????!? I’m sorry dude nothing personal this topic just drives me nuts.
Either give me a realistic alternative to “victim blaming” or f off.
But we DO educate our kids about consent, just like we tell them that stealing and killing etc is wrong. People still do it.
I just hate the phrase “tell men not to do it” when the vast majority of men DONT do it. and I feel like these people are fully aware that saying “tell rapists not to rape” would sound ridiculous, because it is, so they substitute “men” for “rapists”. Telling people not to do bad things is not going to work, because bad people are bad. How can you say that education and being informed is good for perps but not victims? Just as we should educate people to respect others we should educate people that not all of us follow the rules and we should be careful. I agree that we shouldn’t JUST focus on telling people how not be victimized, but to throw that completely out the window and think that if we just tell people not be bad people our problems will go away is just crazy.
I can imagine that being yelled at/harrassed is a scary experience but my friend is dead. I don’t feel bad telling people to stay out of harm’s way as best they can.
“As Louis CK once suggested, and I paraphrase: we lucked out being born white and male, so we should enjoy the ride while it lasts. “
I’m sure that’s a great source of comfort to the young man who was held captive by those 2 Lunenburg Co. chickenhawks.
You know, whenever he gets the urge to say “Men are assaulted, too. WAAAAAAH”
What happened to that young man, while tragic, happens far more often to women. What’s your point?
My point is that it shouldn’t be happening to anybody and that it’s just as traumatic and just as obscene no matter who it happens to. So take your politically correct, affirmative action, white male guilt and work it. Empathy, like my net pay , is a finite resource. Unlike the money taken from me to be redistributed to those who have been “historically disadvantaged” (har har) I still have control over who I expend it on. And that is not about to change, because from my perspective that “fun ride” that us white males supposedly enjoy, ended a long time ago. And, it was never all that much fun in the first place.
Girls be doin’ they fair share a hollering out da drivers window too. Bitches be jelly of dis jelly.
CONSENT
“If we want assaults against women to stop, perhaps it’s time to take a different tack. I think it’s time we start educating young men & women about what consent means.” kelifax (06/14, 5:22PM)
“consent, n., voluntary agreement, compliance, permission.” Concise Oxford Dictionary)
What is it that young men and women do not understand about the word “consent” such that they have to be “educated” about it? What would such “education” involve? Dictionary study? Role playing? Field studies in the bars?
The flaw in kelifax’s reasoning is that it is, um, rational. It presupposes that sexual assaults are the product of antecedent rational reflection on the part of the perpetrator. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Excluding those cases of deep-seated misogynistic psychopathy, drunken opportunism, or biased social messages from whatever source, such assaults, as I have written elsewhere, are the outcome of a deep-seated psychological resentment by the male against the female. Such resentment need not take the form of a full-blown hatred for the female but, in modified form, it is a smouldering constant. From infancy the male has been in a dependency relationship vis-a-vis the female, whether she is his mother (in respect to whom he is totally dependent), his girlfriend (“No means NO!”) or his wife (“Not tonight, George”). He is the sexual suppliant, the needful one, one who must be kept in check, restrained and, yes, controlled. (The phrase “controlling bitch” has a deep resonance in the psychology of the male which, in general, the female seems unaware of or even indifferent to.)
In a word, the concept of “educating” young men and women in this regard is irrelevant since sexual assault is not a rational activity. Put differently, there IS no rational “silver bullet” which will eliminate sexual assault. Being sexed creatures – even in the act of copulation itself the female embodies receptivity but the male, at least before orgasm, embodies violence – some males (forget the females) will rape when the opportunity arises. Others will even create that opportunity themselves.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!
I’m not usually for victim blaming but everyone is always at least partially to blame for anything that happens to them… be it a tiny smidgen or mostly…
In all cases, there was something both parties could have done to avoid any and all conflict but chose to accept any risks and engaged anyways.
If the author wants to use more of her university speak up in drunk people’s grills she should hang out in front of the door to the liquor dome sometime. All kinds of guys and girls extending their high school drama there. Which is all that this is.
Even a c*ck tease should have the right to say no to intercourse and not be victimized.
[MM] “Excluding those cases of deep-seated misogynistic psychopathy, drunken opportunism, or biased social messages from whatever source, such assaults, as I have written elsewhere, are the outcome of a deep-seated psychological resentment by the male against the female.”
[MM] “In a word, the concept of “educating” young men and women in this regard is irrelevant since sexual assault is not a rational activity. Put differently, there IS no rational “silver bullet” which will eliminate sexual assault.”
MM, I’m afraid you’ve conveniently excluded an awful lot here. Obviously, resentment comes into play in a number of cases. You’re essentially saying that if one harbours resentment against another, be it a group or an individual, education (I would include counselling in this category) is unhelpful and irrelevant. Also that rationality has no place when dealing with ‘irrational’ behaviour.
I think that’s bullshit. In my line of work, I’ve seen the opposite be true in many, many cases.
Also, nowhere in my post did I claim there was a “silver bullet. We are a complicated species, there are no simple answers as I explained quite clearly.
Tommy: “How can you say that education and being informed is good for perps but not victims? Just as we should educate people to respect others we should educate people that not all of us follow the rules and we should be careful.”
Not sure if this was @ canned or me…? If me, then please re-read my post as I explained the rationale there. I also never said that we shouldn’t educate victims.
Some food for thought re: education: http://halifax.mediacoop.ca/story/removing…
‘Like’ this post if you’ve ever been downtown and either its one of your friends or you witness someone who tries to ‘reason’ with a drunk person, and gets all university talk and whatnot on them, probably throwing big words out there. There’s probably a lot of whiny “why this” or “why that”‘s in there, too. I bet they raised their voice to accentuate their point because the drunk was “NOT GETTING IT!” haha.
SHOW US YER TITS, CRANKY!!!!
fap fap fap
RSVP
: kelifax (06/18, 12″09PM)
“I think that’s bullshit. In my line of work, I’ve seen the opposite to be true in many, many ways.”
kelifax appears to think his reply to my claim that rape is largely an irrational act having its roots deep in male psychology which render rational treatments like “education” of generally little use misses my point. My point consisted of an attempt to explain the phenomenon of rape in broad general terms, that it was a result of resentment felt by the male against the female in addition, of course, to other contributing individual factors.
In claiming that my analysis is “bullshit”, kelifax appears to think that he has overturned my argument but this is simply because he has failed to grasp what I was about. It may well be true that kelfax, in his line of work, has seen the beneficial effects of such education “in many, many ways”, but (a) this does not affect my attempt to establish a broad, general CAUSE of rape, and (b) the fact that he might have seen some beneficial effects of such “education” in no way establishes the general EFFICACY of such rational treatment in cases of rape. To establish such efficacy requires that kelifax demonstrate both his theory of the rational education of rapists and, secondly, of a tight cause-effect relationship of that theory with its putative beneficial effects. Contrary to kelifax’s unsupported assertion however, convicted rapists are known, after pedophiles, to have the highest rates of recidivism.
I must say that I did wonder about kelifax’s claim that I “conveniently” excluded an awful lot here. Why was it “convenient”? Is kelifax charging me with having an agenda? Can he demonstrate his claim? No, I didn’t think so. His “conveniently” was just a bit of window dressing.
A pleasure as always.
Cheerio!