Ok, just wanted to post somewhere I know will “get the word out”
I am really thinking of posting a new Facebook page protesting the present state of not only Nova Scotian prisons but all Canadian prisons. Prisoners have been given far, far too many liberties and “niceties”…it’s freaking jail ok? If you can’t deal with the conditions or how “unfair” you perceive it to be…I am sure the Feds could setup a “pay for use” deal with Mexico or Bolivia, the costs would be 100 times cheaper and the deterrent factor would be immeasurable…break a law and you get sent to a REAL prison.
I want to see how many voters out there are ready for a change after seeing their tax dollars wasted on “common rooms” that are used for bonfires…or simply for degenerate assholes that can observe the law.
I LOVE seeing my tax dollars pay for prime-time TV for some asshole who raped women or attacked innocent tax paying-law abiding citizens.
I am done with it…spend the money ELSEWHERE…on services for the TAXPAYER.
Awww don’t like double bunking…SMALLER INDIVIDUAL CELLS Don’t like the food…OATMEAL FOR THE REMAINDER OF YOUR SENTENCE.
NO MORE DOUBLE TIME SERVED, NO MORE SHORT SENTENCES, NO MORE KID GLOVES….FUCKING DONE.
—TIME FOR CHANGE…PROTECT THE TAXPAYER NOT THE LOWLIFES!!!
This article appears in Apr 9-15, 2009.
I am sure what prompted you to write this post was the prison riot in Burnside. Isn’t that prison minimum security? I was under the assumption that they did not have dangerous offenders in there. Prisoners are human beings too, regardless if you believe it or not. I would rather my tax dollars go towards cable TV for inmates than the massive amount of things politicians come up with to reward the already privileged. I would also like to point out that just because someone pays taxes, doesn’t mean they are not a lowlife. I love the self-righteous anger though. You got to get the word out…about prisoners…watching wheel of fortune. Another thing, prison is supposed to rehabilitate. Taking away things that are entrenched in society is going to cause more problems, not solve your little shit-fit. But yeah change would be good, but I would hope that it would be initiated by someone who had the best interest of society at heart instead of their own interests.
I don’t see what’s the big deal about giving prisoners a few amenities. It’s still prison. It’s not like they’re in there getting hot rock massages and whores flown in. There seems to be this short-sighted view of “let’s treat prisoners as if they’re subhuman until they die alone in the hole we put them in”…. except that most prisoners are eligible for parole and release at some point. Yeah, let’s give that rapist x amount more reasons to hate people/society so that he can be released and take out all his anger on someone else. People need to think just a bit beyond having their own emotional revenge “needs” met.
As it has already been said, prisoners are people too. As such, they have basic human rights. As it stands, Canada cannot be a beacon (I use that term lightly, by the way) of human rights if we don’t treat them as humans. A society can be judged upon how it treats it’s prisoners. Just look to the US for a perfect illustration.
Well, as much as I agree with everyone who’s commented, esp dr fever, I don’t really see…why cable tv is a basic human right.
just sayin’
(also, a lot of the amenities women receive in jail come from the elizabeth fry society and not from tax payers dollars, just putting that out there)
Perhaps they should (if they already don’t) have to work for prison luxuries doing different prison jobs. Maybe prison is a good opportunity to teach a few life skills (e.g. Hard Work = rewards).
nai, you are wrong. The Correction Centre houses two types of prisoners, those who are remanded and awaiting trial (some of whom are extremely dangerous) and those serving sentences tow years less a day.
I have no problem with those who awaiting trial to have cable TV, etc, afterall they are innocent until proven guilty. Those who are doing time should earn their privleges.
As for human rights, they are getting food, water, clothing and shelter, which is more than some people are getting on the outside, especially the mentally ill.
Good idea Miles.
Most of the people in the Burnside jail aren’t overtly violent criminals– DUIs and the like, which is serious, sure, but not the purposely violent. Most of the others are petty bullshit.
Obviously, they wouldn’t have been sent to jail if there wasn’t a big problem with how they interact with the rest of us mostly civilized people.
My opinion, if we put them through a lot of shit, they’re only going to come out the other end far more problematic than they are now. It’s not an easy question— how do we get people to get out of their bullshit— and I wouldn’t pretend otherwise. But I can’t see how making them miserable for whatever the term of their sentence is makes them any better once they’re free.
Is Burnside the one that was so overcrowded guys were sleeping with their heads stuffed under the cell toilets?
Tim, every person awaiting trial in Metro Halifax, who is remanded, is at the Burnside facility, including murderers, rapists, drug dealers, pimps, gang members etc. They may not be the majority but they are there. It is not a minimum security prison.
Basic Human Rights do not include television…and punishing someone does not mean you are treating them as “sub-human” it is views like this that are fueling the problem. Criminals are often quite intelligent, yet have chosen to utilise this ability to manipulate and abuse. I am not proposing that we go back to the crop and leather strap. “Is this Normal???” You all remember the Canada Post historical moments commercal….good for you, that was then, this is NOW…and law abiding citizens have THEIR liberties and freedoms VIOLATED daily because of the concern that criminals rights will be subverted or trodden on. And to respond to the initial comment on my Bitch…no the riot was not the root for my frustration…it has been building from a fateful Canada Day when a family friend was run down on ROBIE street in front of his mother and younger brother and dragged 40 fuckng feet before the drunk driver had the notion to stop. This asshole had his license taken from him multiple times previously and his complete disregard for this impact and the sentence he recieved after this “not intended violence” was a real eye opener.
You preach of self-rightousnous Nai yet you fail to see this is not about vengeance or misguided anger. This is a line crossed far too many times, a feeling developed over years from witnessing failure to protect the innocent and law-abiding, tax paying good people, it is these people that define the word “Canadian” and the criminals who have chosen to be the antit-thesis.
Prison IS supposed to reform, you are correct. Part of that comes from FEAR, don’t deny it or you are only lying to yourself. Yes they need coucilors and therapists, but think about it, one of the primary reasons that all of us “tow the line” is fear of losing the life we have built, the house, the respect of our peers, the cushy office jobs, not too mention the basic fear of being in a federal “pound me in the a$$ prison” and it is time that we separate the two types of people that are there…the remands and the easily rehabilitated and then also the hardened and unrepentant and repeat offender. We need to drop the act that a good strong liberal hearted effort is going to reform everyone and that a good hug circle is going to heal the hatred and harm that permeates some people.
We are at a time in our society where we must decide if we will allow Political Correctness and misguided efforts will drag down the people that do want to play by the rules or do we start to say enough is enough and it’s time to play hardball with those that want to play hard.
Don’t label me “Self-Rightous” when this is not just about me or our immediate gratification…it’s about the future of Western Society, and this is just one little portion of a wide front of erosion.
Uh huh. It has nothing to do with you other than the tragedy that you have endured and the taxes you are sick of paying for criminals housing. You are very angry, I get that. I think while your intentions may be good, I really don’t think you see the big picture. As far as your response goes, what you said can pretty much be boiled down to the fact that you think I am wrong because a friend of your family has been brutalized, and there was no justice in it and it could have been avoided. That, in conjunction with the prison riot at the medium security prison, that you think the prisoners should have respect for because you are paying for it. Your tragedy is not trivial by any means, but I think that there is a flip-side to that which is the pain the family of the drunk who did that to the friend of your family feels. I don’t know, I think you are out for blood and to change a system that has failed YOU. I am not going to respond to this anymore, but my last piece is that you are wrong not in intention, but absolutely in the way you are trying to accomplish your goals and what you are using to justify your methods. No amount of articulate and well written responses will be able to change that.
People who have attitudes like the OP are so simple-mined and uni-dimensional. First off, punishment does not deter crime. So you can house people in a 4×5 cell for thirty years, but your house is still going to get broken into. What does deter crime? EDUCATION, GOOD ECONOMY and DECENT JOBS.
Second off, there are many out there who are victims of the justice system. People who get jailed because they are set up by the cops, or because they are Indians or blacks. A harsh prison system unfairly targets the underprivileged and undereducated.
Say it again with me, it bears repeating: A harsh prison system unfairly targets the underprivileged and undereducated.
Besides, you very rarely ever see the real crooks behind bars.
These fuckers should be on chain gangs. They should have to earn their privileges in there, TV being one of them. Obviously going to jail isn’t a deterrent. As far as the argument that they’ll come out harder? Bullshit. Make jail so fucking uncomfortable and miserable that they’ll remember it wasn’t all TV and gym time. Bleeding hearts like some of you fuckers cause the problems were seeing now, are you all unemployed fucking social workers or something? Yeah, I agree, go medieval on these cunts, they’ll learn sooner or later.
“every person awaiting trial in Metro Halifax, who is remanded, is at the Burnside facility, including murderers, rapists, drug dealers, pimps, gang members etc.”
Oh, so you mean they haven’t been found guilty?
When someone has come to the point in their life where they are facing incarceration, they have been outcast from society in some form or another. We can see prison as an opportunity or as a means of punishment. It has been proven that locking people away in a cell and throwing away the key does nothing for them, or the community they came from.
Whether we like it or not, these people are going to be re-integrated in to our communities following their release. Do we want to look back and say that we have given them every opportunity to make different choices, or do we want them to leave with feelings of anger, and that our system has failed them?
No matter how many “luxuries” you give them (which, as an aside, there aren’t many, as I have visited the Burnside facility), the overwhelming feeling these people exist with in prison is one of confinement.
The taking away of personal freedom is punishing in itself. Do you really believe that giving these men and women TV changes the fact that they have committed an offense, and as a result of their actions, are away from their friends and family?
For many women, especially, prison is the first time they will have access to valuable health, employment, and counselling services they desperately need.
We want to do everything possible to send these people back in to YOUR community with support, resources, and the ability to live a “productive/normal” life.
As to the argument about reform, I think it depends on the type of crime. In my opinion, murderers and rapists, for the most part, cannot be reformed, and don’t deserve to be.
As to reform, whether it be smoking, drinking, criminal behavior, it can only be achieved ONLY if thae person wants to be reformed. Prison is first and foremost a punishment (or should be). Reform is an opportunity given to prisoners if they want to change their ways.
Tim when the next Bernardo, Manson or whoever is awaiting trial I’ll make sure the judge lets him out with the priviso that he be your neighbour. You shouldn’t mind, afterall they are innocent. And make sure you invite them over for dinner or a BBQ.
DER, just a comment on your point that fear of incarceration acts as a deterrent. For lawful citizens, that’s pretty much true, but part of the reason criminals commit crimes is that they have little ability to see that their actions have consequences. Some tend to be reactionary and live in the moment, and don’t really think before they act. I’m speaking of violent criminals here. For things like robberies and other pre-meditated types of crimes, criminals either don’t think they are going to get caught, or they are so desperate that the benefit of the crime right now outweighs potential future punishment.
I guess my overall point here is that if the same deterrents that work on most lawful citizens were going to work on criminals, they already would. Criminals don’t always see the world the way most of us do.
I agree with Caitlenblen and Optimus Prime.
No one is here talking about a “hugging circle” or whatever. Stop constructing straw man arguments and respond to the real concerns we have about criminals being released to the public even more fucked up than they already are. You treat someone like an animal they start to think they are an animal. I don’t actually give a crap whether prisoners have TV or not. I do care if they have access to programs that can lead them down a different path when they are released to be with the REST OF US.
PS regarding TV, um sry TV is not an expensive luxury. It costs like nothing. What is it, a diamond studded TV painted gold?
The problem is that what we are deeming basic needs for prisoners are things that a lot of the poor and working poor cannot afford. If we are humane enough as a society to give prisoners cable tv, in their own private cells, with health benefits and exercise rooms and 3 meals a day, then we should be doing at least the same thing for every other citizen in Canada.
There have been so many good points raised here but I just can’t get past the TV issue for some reason. I guess I just feel like, on the one hand I don’t care whether the rapist watches TV; but I don’t want to be the one paying for it either!
PAS i agree I don’t have cable and I would love my own room with a toilet and sink and 3 meals a day but working class poor like me can’t afford it. Free health benifits and a gym membership sounds good, I can’t afford those either. I guess the only way to get it would be to do something unlawful. To bad thats not my lifestyle. I think more councilors, classes or programs that involve the reeducation or reform that was talked about would be better then TV (yes even free TV).
Even grounded children lose their tv and computer privliges, are they subhuman or just suppose to be punished worse then jailbirds?
Can we just clear this up for a moment, is television really an issue that we need to spend time examining?
We need to ask ourselves as a society how our time and energy should be spent.
Should we spend all of this time re-hashing the problems of our current system, or should we be discussing paths leading us towards a solution?
Arguments over rehabilitation and punishment aside, in actual fact, prisoners are mostly being warehoused. Just sitting there, doing nothing.
TV, and weight lifting, and library books, etc., are a way to keep them occupied, so they’re not doing other shit we don’t want them to do. It’s an investment, see– it’s way cheaper to turn on a few TVs than to deal with the alternative.
Obviously, the goal should be to get them thinking differently. Like I said above, I don’t think there’s a simple answer to that. We ought think long and hard about it, try different things, and stop thinking some bullshit sloganeering attitude will solve the problem.
I agree with you Tim, but if we gave all these nice things to the poor/working poor in the first place, a lot less of them would turn to crime, either as a career, or as a way to get out of the mess they’re currently in.
Well, PAS, imo, the goal should be to try to create a society where everyone can feel valued and actually be valuable, by contributing skills and labour for the greater good.
I don’t think simply giving people TVs get us there. If there was an easy solution, we would have found it long ago. But clearly, just hating on people doesn’t accomplish anything.
This is about as interesting as an abortion argument.
I only suggest giving them to the poor because we’re already giving them to the criminals. Ideally Miles solution would come into effect, so we could help people help themselves.
You break the law, you suffer for it. That is what prison is for. You are removed from society for the safety of that society. But you are also being punished for breaking the very laws that make society function. So it SHOULD mean no television. But it SHOULD also mean psychological treatment. It SHOULD mean physical and social education that ultimately contributes to rehabilitation. The problem is resources. The problem is a corrupt system in which prison staff take advantage of the criminal element. The problem is us.
i think as alot of people have mentioned in here, that if we have large numbers of free citizens recieving levels of service far below those who are incarcerated then we have a problem. cable tv, computers, game systems, candy to ease quitting smoking…are all luxuries in my opinion.
and as far as prison rehabbing inmates…this only happens if the prisoner wants to change. all the tv, three square meals and hug circles will not change this. removing any of these luxuries will not create more hardened crimnals. the will to be a better person comes from within, not from watching cbc.