I have a real problem with flamboyant gays. Not because they are gay, but because of how they choose to express it. Please don’t get on the bus with your fake boobs on, mini skirt, thong showing, tube top on, 2 day stubble, stumbling in your high heels. I shouldn’t be forced to see that, and I definitely don’t want to have to explain it to my 5 year old daughter. The world doesn’t revolve around your sexuality.
This article appears in Oct 9-15, 2008.
See, I think you are a little mixed up. Most times, if you see someone who looks like a man dressed in women’s clothing, they are NOT gay. They are probably transgendered. Sure, there are drag queens, but generally drag queens get ready at the place they are performing. The last time I checked, being a flamboyant gay man does not mean dressing in women’s clothing. Maybe next time you’re explaining what being a “flamboyant gay” means to your 5 year old daughter, you should include a brief discription of what it means to be transgendered so she doesn’t end up as uneducated as you.Ps, the world doesn’t revolve around YOUR sexuality. Just because you and your friends and family (I assume by your ignorance) are heterosexual, doesn’t mean that there aren’t alternate sexual orientations out there that aren’t as real and as important as yours.
I agree with Lindsay – you should explain to your daughter that the world is made up of different people, not perpetuate ignorance by enforcing your comfort zone on her.
Agreed. While I feel some people go out of their way to flaunt it is their choice.In explaining to your child stop over complicating it. A quick answer like “They like to dress that way because it makes them feel good” said like its normal will yield no further questions.*Hopes your bubble pops soon*
Please do not get on the bus….period. In fact, please don’t come out of your house. We do not need/want people like you in our midst. Life has a funny way of putting what people are scared of into their lives. This five year old child may well turn out to be gay. Will her mother then not allow her “butch-dike” daughter out in public. Lock her in the basement then none of us need see her. This woman needs to crawl back under the rock from which she came.Honestly I don’t think it should have even been posted to the web site. Shame on the Coast!
OP, I’m totally behind you on this one… just ignore all the gender confused weirdo’s posting here. You’re so right! There’s no need to be publically flaunting any choices in regard to sexuality (this goes for too low cut tops on floosy women, etc). They don’t want to keep it a secret but that doesn’t change the fact that we don’t WANT to know how fucked up your thinking might be in relation to PROCREATION. Idiots! There’s nothing stopping you freaks from pulling on a pair of jeans or an overcoat, a societal norm.Watch them… here they come. Freaks… have at’r
Have you seen the way some girls dress these days…. fake boobs, thongs hanging out, tube tops, mini skirts, and heels they cant walk in. Chances are your little girl is going to be more influenced than them than that one person on the bus. Next time your with your husband/boyfriend holding hands I hope he comes up to you and says he is uncomfortable with how you are expressing you sexuality.
Ignorance begats ignorance.
kay, it looks like you’re a little confused too. I don’t think that a man dressing in women’s clothing is an expression of his sexuality. Sexuality is who you’re attracted to, and how you handle and express that sexuality. The clothes you choose to wear is an expression of your GENDER. It looks like the two of you should get together and do a little internet research.Also, I’m not a “gender confused weirdo”. I’m a woman, who was born a woman, that wears women’s clothing. That doesn’t mean I can’t be just as pissed off as that person on the bus with stubble and fake boobs. Do us all a favor and educate yourself a little bit before responding to posts like this and making a complete ass out of yourself.
“I definitely don’t want to have to explain it to my 5 year old daughter.”you mean, parenting? yeah, what a bummer.
So who made up the rule about what people are suppose to wear? And why are they an authority? Because everyone always said so?
I agree with the OP saying “I have a real problem”, but that’s about it. If you’re raising a daughter you don’t want to explain anything to, in about ten years you’re going to have a whole boatload of problems.
Gee, I DO have a problem with some people, and that’s people like you who are so narrow minded you can”t see there are a whole HELL of a lot of different people that make up this world. I feel sorry for these men/women who are trying so hard to express themselves in a place that is supposed to be open minded and willing to let anyone be who they want to be and you ‘have a problem with them’. Who the heck cares? If your daughter asks you tell them exactly what a PP wrote, that there are many different types of people in the world and they all deserve to be here….and ride the bus. Get over yourself I say…………flame away!!
I do have a problem with the way some people dress as well, normal or otherwise. And it seems like a lot of people do too. There were a bitches about tights, lulu lemon, pajamas and the list goes on. This bitch fits in the same category, what people deem as inappropriate attire. Though it is not nice to say bad things about someone who obviously has mental issues.Opinions, much like assholes, everyone has one. Which they are all entitled to. Fuck all of you who jumped on the OP. Freedom of expression, much like the homo that wore the clothes in the first place, is extended to everyone. Ignorant, misinformed or stuck in the past they are still entitled to say what they want. This is LTWWB still, is it not ?And why all the pussy-footing when it comes to talking about gays, lesbians and transgenders? They want equality and to be treated like everyone else. Well I slag everyone equally. You will not catch me ‘sugar coating’.
Wow Scott that’s nice…it’s people like you who make these people terrified to walk in public..what’s next: gay bashing and a new uprising of the KKK??? hmmm
Oy, this is a tough one. For one, gay people are normal and shouldn’t be told to hide. For another, dresses and high heels etc., as pointed out below, are an expression of gender, not sexuality – usually. And if someone is truly transgendered, they can’t help it and may eventually pass, or try to, as the opposite (biological) sex and so shouldn’t stand out too much if they’re any good at it.But on the other hand I kinda think the transvestites, who are often straight but dress in gender-bending ways for kink (for lack of a better word), could stand to keep it in the bedroom. And the drag queens, who are often gay but not transgendered, and do it mostly for show – i.e. flamboyance – could stand to keep it in the nightclubs.I have nothing against regular gay or transgendered people, but I confess the transvestites and the drag queens kinda gimme the willies. They’re the ones who just kind of come off as fucked up and / or obnoxious, IMHO.Flame away (no pun intended).
Kelley dont concern yourself with Scott.. To paraphrase: Scott is an asshole with asshole opinions… Not just here on this thread… If I didn’t know better, I would say that Scott is in fact Kay in drag… How fucking sick is that..???FTR, I think they can wear whatever they want, but the where I draw the line is these gay parades… If we don’t have straight parades, we don’t need gay ones either…
There’s a straight parade constantly, and it’s boring as hell.
Yeah but the straight parade’s reason for being there isn’t to celebrate straightitude… The gay parade is there to….BE A GAY PARADE… Personally, I think the cross-dressing thing is insulting to women…
When I was a little girl there was an older man who used to walk down Spring Garden Rd. in high heels. He would be wearing a nice suit with pants, but always with some bitchin’ stilettos. I think he now wears a skirt as well, I have seen in the past year or so, still on Spring Garden. My point is, that it was not super confusing/traumatizing then, and it’s not now … my dad used to actually point him out to me, as if to say “isn’t that different?”. Children are generally much more accepting than adults in general, IF they are raised in an open minded environment. That being said, I wouldn’t worry about your little girl so much as I would worry about YOU.
This point has been made to the point of being belaboured, but clearly it needs to be made yet again:Anybody can have a parade. Nothing is preventing this Straight Parade people keep bringing up. So Floyd, if you and some of your straight and straight-friendly friends want to put the time and labour into organizing a Straight Parade, have at ‘er. But stop saying “there’s no Straight Parade, therefore their shouldn’t be a Gay Parade.” That’s logically equivalent to saying, “there’s no Easter Bunny Parade, therefore there shouldn’t be a Santa Clause Parade.”To the OP: If you insist on taking your kid out of the house, she is going to see all kinds of things you don’t approve of. It’s your job as a parent to explain these things in the context of your value system. In other words, if she never sees these people, how will you teach her who to hate?
You tell your kid that that person is a freak and isn’t normal. Hence everyone stares at them.When she asks why that person is a freak you tell them that it’s because they didn’t eat their vegetables.EVERYONE WINS!!
To the OP and Kay and anyone else who is teaching their kids that anyone who dresses different is a freak, when that kid grows up and ends up getting arrested for beating somebody up because they “looked different”, you’ll have nobody to blame but yourselves. Kids are open minded and have no prejudices, it’s up to the parents to teach them. If you teach them hate and intolerance, they’ll grow up that way. Your parenting rights should be revoked if you’re a narrow minded asshole.People should dress how they want- period. We all have styles that we hate, personally, I cringe at all the fashion victims who need celebrities and fashion magazines to tell them what to wear, but you know what, I defend their right to look stupid in those clothes if they choose.
I think the OP has a point. If it were a woman dressed up like a train wreck who was getting on a bus, there wouldn’t be such a fuss, except perhaps for the odd person commenting on how women should not wear tights because it makes them look like a sausage, etc. But because it’s a transgendered person, all the p.c. commenters are coming out of hiding. Fact is, if you want to dress like a woman, do it with some taste for goodness sakes. And if you’re over the age of 35 (male or female) mini-skirts are not for you.
ghost, you make no sense.Knowing someone is a freak and punching someone in the face do NOT corrolate. Society has normal behaviour, conformed dress, and laws on behaviour. It is passed on from generation to generation.You could differentiate between a wierdo seeking attention and know that while they look odd you DON’T have to beat them to an inch of their life, you just ignore and ostrocise them the way god and nature intended.If you don’t go with the flow you know it doesn’t matter anymore…
Gimpysaviour:Really? Read this and tell me that people aren’t beaten up because of how they choose to dress. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Lancaster The kids who did that were probably raised to think that anyone who is different is fair game. Intolerance does lead to violent behaviour.
I often dress like I’m from the 20’s/30’s/40’s/50’s, and I get on the bus like that, and walk around town, and go to work, etc. Kids often stare at me and wonder, because I’m not dressed like everyone else. How do you explain me to your daughter?
Miranda, I disagree with your analogy of the Santa Claus parade and the Easter Bunny parade as equivalent to the Gay parade issue… Apples and oranges…Now if you want a more accurate comparison, consider if there were pride parades along racial lines instead of sexual orientation… I submit to you that men in 2008 dressed as women in a parade, is no different than having those 1920’s minstrel shows with white guys painting their faces black… Offensive…
~Sad to say, but you are very right Ghost…~More about Sophie Lancaster:http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=RZMWVPfFPug
Didn’t a parade of natives walk down Barrington Street on Treaty Day last week?
Rather, a parade of Mi’qMa’ Nova Scotians?
A parade of Mi’qMa’ Nova Scotians in their traditional dress: OKA parade of Mi’qMa’ Nova Scotians dressed in the garb of another group or culture: a mockery, offensive, not OK.A parade of gay men dressed as women: a mockery, offensive, not OK.
I wasn’t going to post on this bitch because it seems everything has already been said that I wanted to say…I want to however THANK the poster who made the comment about what the OP should say to his child when approached with a situation like this.I on the outside look like a “freak” if you will to some people, facial piercings, tattoos, multi-colored hair, and I have kids, who are gorwn now, but express themselves in their own way, and they are supported because of it, not made to feel like they should wear a bag just because someone in society isn’t comfortable with the way they look.That person on the bus is NOTHING to you and you or your child may NEVER see them again, so take the advise of the poster who said, maybe just tell your child about all the different people in today’s society that look and dress differently as an expression of themselves!! Maybe then she won’t grow up to be narrow-minded like her Dad
But Floyd, I don’t find it offensive. I don’t think the majority find it offensive. I mean, who exactly is being mocked? Women? I don’t see any women’s groups objecting to it. The only thing being mocked is societal norms, and they need regular mocking. I get that you find it offensive, and I respect that. You have the right not to attend.On the subject of apples and oranges, I only intended the analogy to apply to the specific case where people say. “there is no straight parade, THEREFORE there should be no gay parade.” If you (you in general, not you specifically) acknowledge that your objection to the gay pride parade is NOT because of the lack of a corresponding straight parade, then it does indeed become apples and oranges. But then you’re pretty much left with nothing but homophobia to justify your objection.
Floyd, comparing drag queens to 30s actors in blackface is a little strange. Drag queens dress as women because they want to be like women sometimes. White guys dressed in blackface to mock black people, certainly not because they wanted to be black themselves. Not really much of an analogy.And Mi’kmaq people may mix up some of the traditional dress from unrelated tribes from thousands of miles away, but that’s sort of because the government made a concert effort for a couple generations to make sure they forget every shred of their ancient culture. So, yeah, some people get a little mixed up and drive around with dreamcatchers in their windows even though they’re not Ojibwa and dreamcatchers were just sort of made up only 30 years ago anyway, but hey cut them some slack. I occasionally wear a beret which I am pretty sure my English ancestors didn’t invent, but no one is shooting me for that right?(Actually that’s a lie – I wouldn’t be caught dead in a fucking beret – I’d sooner be seen in drag than in one of those pansy-ass art-fag bits of artifice. But you get my point.)
Why does freedom of speech / expression only apply if the person’s speech and expression DOESN’T piss you off?I’m not saying its right or wrong to have a problem with transgendered people – if you do, you do, if you don’t, you don’t!Yeah, yeah, its 2008 and we’re all supposed to happily accept everyone. But some people don’t and its their right not to.People have the freedom to walk around in public like that, just as much as people have the freedom to diss it.Obviously this person’s opinion angered people – but that mans attire angered the person.Everyone loses. Deal with it.
Comrade, I support freedom of expression all the way. I support the rights of bigots to express their intolerant views in a public forum. A lot of bigots are labouring under the misconception that most people think the way they do. It’s good for them to be set straight on that score. Notice that nobody questioned the OP’s right to think and say what he did. They just responded with their own opinions. Telling someone he’s an ass is not a violation of his right to freedom of speech.
Okay okay everybody settle down… my earlier comment could have been better worded as: we don’t need a straight parade AND we don’t need a gay parade either… Like the OP, I do not consider myself to be anti-gay or a homophobe… To each his own; live and let live; I am down with all that… I agree with the part about their rights to do the parade and my rights not to watch it… No problemo…But the parade of men dressed as women thing I just don’t get… Who is offended by it.? I am offended by it… And I suspect that others are also… But perhaps the question should be, WHO is entertained by this…?? Gay men.. Maybe…Maybe not… Why would a gay man want to be with someone who dresses like a woman,,, when as far as I know,,, the gay thing,,, is all about preferring men to women… So it’s not for them,,, then WHO…Tell me who WANTS or NEEDS to see a gay parade and WHY… What is enjoyable or otherwise in anyway beneficial to anyone about a Drag Parade…??? Someone please tell me because I would seriously like to know…
Miranda, of course I didn’t see your last post while I was posting mine… What I find interesting is that you said”A lot of bigots are labouring under the misconception that most people think the way they do” and I said “…I am offended by it… And I suspect that others are also”So I have to ask, does this mean my point of view (or myself)s bigoted…??Its OK, I can take it,,, I respect your opinion and I promise not to call you a troll…
I think maybe “bigot” might be too strong a word. I withdraw it. I would never call you a bigot, Floydie.However, I think there are degrees of homophobia. There’s virulent hatred, and there’s mild discomfort, and everything in between. I think the fact that you’re uncomfortable with the spectacle of gay people celebrating their sexuality is evidence of a little bit of homophobia. And you’re right. Lot’s of people are offended by that spectacle. But I think they’re in the minority. I think most people either support the Pride movement, or have a live and let live attitude toward it. When I said bigots are under the misconception that most people share their views, I was thinking of the more extreme and narrowminded types who tend to surround themselves with like-minded people. It’s good for those types to see that their views are not as common as they think.
I’ll try to answer your questions, Floyd. The short answer is, it’s just a party. It’s fun, it’s exciting, it’s entertaining. Not to everyone, sure. But look at the crowd that comes out to participate or watch. Obviously, an awful lot of people think it’s a blast.But beyond the good time aspect, it’s a celebration of the fact that gay people don’t have to hide their sexuality, at least not like they used to. The gay community throws this party because they CAN, and that’s worth celebrating.
Well thank you… Those are good answers and I will think about all that… To be sure though, I do subscribe to the “not that there’s anything wrong with it” crowd… The flaunting it, I guess I always took as a bit too ostentatious or catty or something… That’s all… Maybe I’ll check it out next year, just for laughs….BTW Miranda,,, where is your other number one fan…???
On the topic of the original bitch, ie, men shouldn’t dress up like women in public:It occurs to me that a hundred years ago, a woman with short hair, wearing pants -in other words, dressed up like a man, would be considered just as shocking and offensive to societal norms as a man dressed in women’s clothes is today. Just some food for thought.
True, but then what were the gay men wearing 100 years ago… If they dressed like women, who were dressed like men, that would mean…Ahhhhhhhhhh.. I can’t take it any more… To hell in a handbag,,, We’re all goin…
Miranda, you’re so right about how women were who dressed like men were viewed at one point. I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to start a rant about “societal norms”. I tend to get touchy with this subject. I think that we need to push the boundaries of what is considered normal dress rules. Mostly because what is considered normal these days can also be summed up with one word “boring”. Why should these rules even exist to begin with? If a man wants to wear fake boobs and a tube top- why not? It only makes him less of a man to those who have rigid rules of what men should wear. And people like the OP who seem confused as to what to tell their kids don’t see that the problem is in their own eyes, not the person who’s wearing this stuff.I stand by my original statement that people should wear what they want and like. The problems that arise out of dressing differently says more about the viewer than the wearer. Why should seeing someone for a few minutes on a bus cause so much problem? Once off the bus, the likelihood of seeing that person again is slim, so why let it rattle your cage?
Give it up Floyd. Just put the dress on. You’ll like it, I promise…
Well I don’t even know if I can get the dress on… That extra piece of cake I had for supper went straight to my thighs…
Floyd to respond to one of your earlier points – I don’t think guys dress up in drag necessarily for other gay guys. I think they do it for their own sense of fun. I know a few non-drag gay gays, and while they have never spent any big amount of time talking about it around me, what they have said suggests that they are mostly irritated / embarrassed by drag queens. I’m sure not all feel that way but they definitely seem to.Re: your point about parades seeming obnoxious or catty, I think that’s the whole point for some. Gettin’ in your face and makin’ you just frickin’ deal with it I guess. As I said in my first post I’m quite happy to pretty much never see a guy in drag myself, so I hear ya. But I’m not going to protest it either.
Well put Jammie… As I rethink my position on this, I have to admit that saying I found the drag queens offensive was overstating my case, in an attempt to get things stirred up a bit… Truth be told, I don’t feel that strongly about it… But the discussion has caused me to examine why I had some of these notions in the first place… So to be open minded, I have to admit I actually learned some stuff here… And there’s nothing the matter with that… Have a good one…
Ok, I feel I need to step in and educate here. OP, I’m not going to yell, scream, call names or even swear. I’ll simply be giving you information on Gender Dysphoria.You said:I have a real problem with flamboyant gays. Not because they are gay, but because of how they choose to express it. Please don’t get on the bus with your fake boobs on, mini skirt, thong showing, tube top on, 2 day stubble, stumbling in your high heels.Reply:This person may have just come out as transgendered or even gender queer. Being trans myself, I know some of the pain this person had to go through just to go out like that. I used to be at that stage. I have since become more comfortable with myself, and as such really don’t care anymore. What irks me is you telling people what they can and cannot wear.You said: I shouldn’t be forced to see that, and I definitely don’t want to have to explain it to my 5 year old daughter. The world doesn’t revolve around your sexuality. Reply:You don’t want to have to explain it to your 5 year old? That’s good parenting right there. Today’s society is supposed to be open-minded and accepting, but yeah, there are still a few out there like you.As far as sexuality goes, sexuality is another word for sexual preference. Who do you like? Male or female?Sexuality does not mean which gender you are. Consider this: Growing up, alot of us have problems being comfortable in our own skin. It’s like a constant prison 24 hours a day that we cannot escape. Imagine if you will, if you’re a man, being forced to wear a skirt for your entire life. Imagine if you’re a woman, being forced to wear a suit and tie. Do you know how destabilizing that is for us? The suicide rate among trans/gender queer youth is well above what it is for everyone else. I for one think you could be a little more supportive. If you would like reference material, please email me at ookami.gin@gmail.com and I will be more than happy to give you some links to help you better understand this.