Brenda Hurlbert left her father’s funeral in New Brunswick with a few of his most prized possessions.
Hurlbert sat down at a video lottery terminal on the Digby ferry headed back to her home just outside Yarmouth.
It wasn’t long before she’d blown through all of her money—all but a coin collection willed to her children by their recently deceased grandfather.
She just needed one more row of cherries to launch into the $100 bonus round.
After agonizing over it, she ripped the package open and inserted the gleaming coins into the slot.
“My thought was, ‘OK, I can get another one and put it back.’ The kids won’t really know. Yeah, I could have got another coin collection and put it back,” she says. “That wasn’t the point. The point was he collected every single one of them for my kids. And I gambled it.”
She’s taken money from her employers and even sold the family dog, all in the name of VLTs.
“I just hit such a low, I just felt like I was being swallowed up by this big black tornado just sucking me down.”
Eventually, she told her counsellor it would be easier to die than go on. Hurlbert is part of the one percent of the population who are problem gamblers and play VLTs regularly—a measly number of people that account for as much as half of the VLT revenues in Nova Scotia, according to government studies.
That’s as much as $100 million lost by problem VLT players in bars, clubs and on First Nations reserves.
Despite an array of measures to promote “responsible gambling” in the province, steps to rein the highly addictive machines have been modest at best. An investigation by University of King’s College journalism students has revealed a gambling industry in Nova Scotia that, despite all the government policy and public outcry, continues to be responsible for widespread devastation in the lives of Nova Scotians.
Five years after the provincial government trumpeted a strategy for gambling in the province, video lottery terminals continue to lure in new addicts, driving people into despair, bankruptcy and crime.
Measures that were supposed to put a lid on the electronic gambling machines have had limited impact, with total net revenues from all VLTs in Nova Scotia nearing $200 million last year, an increase of $14 million from 2007/2008. The amount fed into the machines by gamblers is even higher, nearing a billion dollars before prizes.
A billion dollars is about the same amount as the province makes exporting seafood, or about twice what farmers get for sales of agricultural products.
In 2005, premier Darrell Dexter, the leader of the opposition at the time, introduced a private member’s bill that would have required a binding referendum on VLTs. The bill was never debated.
Asked Wednesday about why his government hasn’t moved on a referendum, Dexter said the “mosaic of gambling” has changed because of online gambling. “If you get rid of [VLTs], you drive [the problems] either underground or online.”
Since being elected, his government has allowed the previous gaming strategy to expire and, last week, killed a study on the socio-economic impacts of gambling ordered by the previous Tory government.
A once-rigorous regulatory regime, supposed to continuously study gambling, has been almost completely dismantled. Beginning in 1995, the then Alcohol and Gaming Authority produced inch-thick annual reviews of gambling. The detailed analyses covered everything from the social, health and justice impacts of gambling among suggestions to improve gaming in Nova Scotia.
These have since shrunk to brief 30-page statistical documents.
And there is a growing view that the gambling strategy was largely a public relations exercise by a government and government-owned gaming corporation that do not want to give up the enormous revenues that flow into the provincial treasury from VLTs.
The crack cocaine of gambling
The government’s own studies show just how addictive VLTs really are.
The 2007 Adult Gambling Prevalence Study found that 26 percent of regular VLT players reported having problems, an increase of 67 percent from the 16 percent reported in 2003.
The study showed that VLTs “continue to be cited as the principle source of gambling problems.”
“Can you imagine,” asks Bruce Dienes, a psychology professor at Mount Saint Vincent University, “if you were selling a car, where 25 per cent of the regular drivers got in an accident, how long would you be permitted to sell that car?
“There’s just a sense of outrage that a government that is supposed to—that has the mandate to protect its citizens—is putting them at risk and they’re doing it in a way which is privately deceptive.”
The prevalence study revealed that since implementing a five-year gaming strategy in 2005, fewer people are playing VLTs, but those remaining are spending more money and having more problems.
And Hurlbert can vouch for that.
“It’ll strip you down as quick as crack cocaine, if not faster,” Hurlbert warns, staring off into the distance, reflecting upon her addiction.
In Nova Scotia, there were 2,241 VLTS located in bars and legions as of December 31, according to the Atlantic Lottery Corporation, and almost 600 more on reserves, according to the province.
Kevin Harrigan, a research associate who has studied VLTs extensively at the University of Waterloo, says VLTs are unlike any other form of gambling—almost all aspects of the game are concealed to the player.
He says the number of symbols per reel is hidden from the player. Contrary to roulette or poker, players have no idea what their odds are of winning a game.
In Nova Scotia, the odds of winning the top prize must be greater than one in 17 million, according to the Atlantic Lottery Corporation’s product specifications.
You’re 22 times more likely to be struck by lightning.
Wins are completely random. All outcomes are produced by a random number generator that is generating tens of thousands of numbers per second even when the machine is idle.
So you can rid yourself of those myths about your machine being due for a win. You’re wrong. The government only requires that the machines pay out as winnings at least 80 percent of what is wagered. Kerry Chambers, a professor of sociology at Dalhousie University, who once worked for the old Alcohol and Gaming Authority, says it’s basic psychology.
“It’s like the rat that goes and gets food all the time, but it’s random,” says Chambers, who now studies gambling. “So when you take the food they still punch the button because they think they’re going to get food. It’s the same with a VLT player. They win and because it’s random they begin to think that there is a pattern and they keep playing.”
Wreaking havoc
Wayne Power awoke one morning to find the billfold of his wallet was missing something—a lot of something.
“I knew I had a couple thousand dollars on me the day before when I went out, and I woke up the next morning, I had none left.”
Power, like most who have problems, says his addiction was ignited by a roll of quarters and a curiosity for the machines. He says he found the game to be largely a social activity. More than $15,000 later, VLTs weren’t so fun anymore.
Today, Power sits at his kitchen table in New Waterford, casually drinking a rum and Coke from a travel mug in a home he once shared with his wife—now his ex-wife.
He’s not the only Caper mesmerized by the spinning reels and the rush of a win. Cape Breton has the some of the highest rates of people playing VLTs in the province, according to the 2007 prevalence study.
He’s also swimming in a pool of VLTs.
Altogether, Cape Breton County has almost 500 VLTs, plus 300 similar slot machines at the Sydney casino.
And an analysis by King’s College students of figures provided by ALC shows there was a 14 percent increase in non-reserve VLT revenues from 2007 to 2009 in Cape Breton County. The increase in New Waterford was even greater—26 percent.
It’s a similar story in HRM: Using neighbourhood income figures provided by Statistics Canada, combined with the locations of VLTs provided by the Alcohol and Gaming Division, the King’s College investigative team found there are four times more VLTs per capita in the poorest areas than in the richest neighbourhoods.
Like many others, Power found himself scraping the walls of the debt pit in bankruptcy court. VLT players produce a steady stream of people becoming addicted, falling into bankruptcy and going to court charged with criminal offences.
Joseph Wilkie, a financial trustee at WBLI in Bedford, says his firm regularly sees cases of bankruptcy-by-gambling, with the majority being VLT-related. He says the number is probably much larger as clients don’t necessarily have to reveal that gambling was involved.
In February, an armed forces veteran and volunteer legion treasurer was sentenced to 18 months’ house arrest for stealing $70,000 from the Westmount Royal Canadian Legion branch in the Sydney area, to have money to play the VLTs there.
Judge David J. Ryan heard the case. Ryan says he can’t comment on any specific case, but when asked about the problem in general, he said he sees six to 12 cases a year in his Sydney court where gambling led to crime such as theft or family violence.
“I would say the vast majority is the VLTs. I think there’s a perception that I have and that I think most judges are aware, that there are people out there with serious gambling issues, perhaps more so than we realize. We see the results of it perhaps more than most people do.”
Loopholes
Perched in Indian Brook, Nova Scotia, is a small reserve community’s gas bar. Inside is a dark room stocked full of VLTs next to a bathroom with a toilet that can only be flushed with the assistance of a plastic spoon. Willy Gehue, a self-declared gambling addict, has been there often.
“At one time I was seriously addicted,” says Gehue. “I see myself a couple of times there—quite a few times—one day put in $200, next day put $300 in, next day put another $200 in; like it was 20 or 30 bucks.”
While the previous government acted to turn off machines in bars, clubs and legions between midnight and closing, and removed 1,000 machines from those locations, explosive growth in loosely regulated reserve gambling has erased many of the gains.
Led by urban reserves in Sydney and Cole Harbour that draw hordes of non-native gamblers, revenues from reserve VLTs now account for one in four dollars collected from VLTs in Nova Scotia. Rather than dropping money at their local taverns, people in Halifax are driving to Cole Harbour, where unlike the VLTs elsewhere, those on reserves can often operate 23 hours a day, don’t have to be in licensed premises, allow smoking in some cases, and can oftentimes offer a safe place where addicts are unlikely to see their neighbours.
The reserve machines operate under secret agreements with the province and are subject to almost no provincial oversight despite the fact that most of the money comes from non-natives. The King’s investigative team asked the government and all the bands to look at the agreements; government officials refused to turn them over and not a single band replied.
According to Lloyd Johnson, a member of the gaming commission at Millbrook, until 1995 reserves were only allowed to sell baskets alongside the highway. They’ve come a long way from roadside sales. VLT revenues from reserves, after fees paid to ALC, have jumped from $10.7 million to $49 million in the past 11 years.
But most of the revenues generated go directly back to the band to fund community development.
“A lot of them use it for programs that are not funded through Indian and Northern Affairs. They use it to supplement health care, youth programs, community service programs,” says Nancy McInnis Leek, trade adviser for the Department of Intergovernmental Affairs.
For example, Membertou First Nation, which has almost as many VLTs as the rest of Sydney, has developed a state-of-the-art convention centre, built houses and roads and provided annual dividends of $1,500 to each band member.
At Millbrook First Nation in Cole Harbour, a vast number of people from off-reserve communities travel to places such as Treaty Gas to play one of their VLTs whenever the mood strikes.
In 2002, the reserve brought in $7.8 million in revenue for community development, allowing the construction of a 100-room hotel complete with indoor water park. Construction is scheduled to start next month.
“We really don’t like to brag about the money part of [VLT machines] because there are segments of society that say, ‘Yeah you know they’re lining their pockets,’ and the anti-gaming crowd would say, ‘Oh yeah, they made it on the backs of problem gamblers.’ We don’t look at it that way,” says Johnson.
He says the community has improved dramatically since 1994—a direct result of the VLT revenue.
But is that dissenting “segment of society” right? Does the deal to allow VLTs on reserves, made to help native communities, do so on the backs of problem gamblers and their grocery money?
VLTs on reserves can be found at gas stations, laundromats and convenience stores and many are open 23 hours a day, while off-reserve, only bars and legions have VLTs, and they must turn them off at midnight.
The reserve VLT industry has become so big that even the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation has taken notice. “Revenues from [VLTs] performed under target as a result of a shift in play to First Nations’ sites,” NSGC said in its annual business plan for 2008-2009. “Some customers prefer First Nations’ sites due to differences in the operating environment: NSGC’s sites do not permit smoking, and VLT operations end at midnight each day; First Nations’ sites permit smoking and allow VLTs to operate past midnight.”
The huge flow of money to reserves directly undermines the government’s gaming strategy, particularly because of the longer operating hours. One of the reasons the government shut down VLTs off-reserve after midnight was because a higher proportion of players in the early morning hours are problem gamblers.
On many occasions, Hurlbert found herself contemplating her next move after her favourite bar shut off the lights.
“Then I ended up going to the reserve. And that’s the most accommodating place I’ve ever seen in my entire life,” she explains, referring to Acadia’s Yarmouth reserve. “Because they would make it very important to be nice to you. And I was considered a very good customer.”
Spin
All this comes despite the much-heralded 2005 gambling strategy and the high-profile move to remove 1,000 VLTs, slow the play and close VLTs after midnight. Hurlbert didn’t even notice the changes. “It didn’t make a difference,” she says. “Didn’t matter to me a bit.”
Peter McKenna, a political science professor at the University of Prince Edward Island and author of Terminal Damage, a book on VLTs in Atlantic Canada, says the strategy is nothing more than a PR gimmick.
“It’s all about convincing voters that the government is seized with the issue when in fact they are crossing from it, and what they want to do is neutralize any criticism,” says McKenna. The strategy makes “absolutely no sense.”
“Because governments, in order to profit from gambling must—have to, it’s a necessity—they have to create addicts,” he says. “They have to create people with problems with gambling. Because those are the people who provide the lion’s share of revenues.
“Because those are their best customers.”
Carolyn Davison, director of addiction services in the Nova Scotia Department of Health doesn’t go that far. She says the strategy has the right message but it didn’t cure the addiction problem.
“If you wanted to know whether the gaming strategy had any impact on the rates of problem gambling, it didn’t,” says Davison.
We visited the Royal Canadian Legion Vimy 27 on Almon Street in Halifax where two people sit entranced at 11am tapping a spin button on a fluorescent screenamphlets promoting “responsible gaming” sit atop one VLT collecting dust—the stack is full. Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation spends about $7.5 million a year on programs to encourage people not to gamble beyond their means, and will soon roll out a system that requires VLT players to have an anonymous ID card before they can use the machines.
But Chambers says the “responsible gaming” initiative delivers the wrong message.
“This whole notion of responsible gambling pushes the person with problem gambling into a position of irresponsibility. So if you’re gambling beyond your means you’re being irresponsible. One of the reasons problem gamblers do not come forward is because of the stigma. You’re being pushed into an irresponsible position that stigmatizes you further because you’re stupid.”
Debby Langille of Game Over VLTs, a local group against VLTs, says the so-called initiative is enough to make her sick.
“And we all know how to gamble in Nova Scotia ’cause we’re all responsible,” says Langille sarcastically. “That’s part of their advertising and I wanna put my foot through the TV every time I hear it and every time I hear that song, ‘Know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em’.”
Last year, the Green Party called for the abolition of VLTs, citing statistics showing five per cent of financial problems in Nova Scotia are caused by gambling, as well as the social harm the machines cause.
In Newfoundland, the father of a VLT addict who died of a drug overdose in 2003 is trying to start a class-action suit against the Atlantic Lottery Corporation, blaming the machines for her death.
In his proposed statement of claim Keith Piercey alleges, “As a result of the deceptive nature of VLTs, addicted, pathological or problem gamblers have impaired control of gambling behaviour despite harmful consequences of their behaviour, and are fixated on the win they believe is due to them and which will solve their problems. Eventually, they just fixate on playing and wins become irrelevant. Pathological gamblers make up a disproportionally large share of the Defendant’s VLT revenues from this province.”
“Her death was a suicide caused by the addictive and deceptive nature of VLTs.”
The class-action suit has not yet been certified by the court. The allegations are unproven and have not been tested in court.
Hurlbert has recovered, but there are many others still suffering from the wrath of VLTs. It’s just like any other addiction, she says. The walls crumble around you and you’re sent spinning into oblivion.
“I hate what it made me become. It stripped me of my identity, my self-esteem, my credibility, my honesty. As a person it rips you raw.”
The King’s College Investigative Workshop has collected more information on this issue, additional articles, maps, statistics and further investigations. See their work at gambling.kingsjournalism.com.
This article appears in Apr 29 – May 5, 2010.
Like I said before.
Make it that the machines will only take nickels and .25 is the max bet. That way losing $200 will take a lot longer.
Sounds like a narrowly focused article with limited research. I just looked at the site for NSGC and they have independent research reports showing the changes they made and the impact. Asking one player isn’t enough. Also, do they really think that a anti-VLT group is going to say the gov’t is doing a good job? I also think there’s a good portion of information about the product, has anyone looked at the atlantic lottery corporation site and seen that games pay out around 93%?
Do I think gambling can cause problems for some, yes…so can alcohol, drugs and other addictive-type activities.
Check out the VLT cost of play calculator on getgamblingfacts.ca. It will help you understand how the machines work with a 93% pay out to collect a million dollars a year in Nova Scotia. A big thank you to the King’s College Investigative Workshop for bringing attention to the legacy of the VLT’s.
Hi Big D,
We spent 7 weeks, 9-5, 5 days a week, of intensive research. The stats on the ALC tell only half the story. Responsible gaming features and policies on machines have lowered the corporation’s incomes from previous levels which is what I assume you’re referring to, but incomes have started rising again and while there are less machines, the money per machine is also rising dramatically.
Also, the NSGC cannot release stats on the extensive VLT gaming taking place on reserves which have almost none of the responsible gaming features or regulations.
We also interveiwed several players, not just one. Only so many could be entered in the story though.
The machines do pay out 93% of the money they take in, but that doesn’t prevent problem gamblers from throwing away thousands upon thousands of dollars, not everyone wins the jackpot prize.
This story isn’t about VLTs being bad, that debate has been done. Its about how initiatives that have been put in place only give the appearance that something is being done about problem gaming, and the one’s that might do some good are undermined by the much less regulated VLTs on reserves. And on top of that, the regulation outside the reserves has been slowly rendered toothless.
Please click on the link to our site at the bottom of the article to see the more detailed stories and maybe you’ll see how much work actually went into this.
re: Big D
I don’t think you read the article. There is clearly more than one gambler interviewed along with a slew of others (prof, judge, addictions people, the NSGC, other people in favour of the machines…). It discusses pay-out too. I don’t know why you were searching other sites so fervently without reading the story itself.
NICKELS!!!!!
Big D: You are a bold idiot. You are trying and failing to reduce the six weeks of nine-to-five research by these students to shit. Perhaps they should have interviewed you for proof that government spin is effective. If you truly believe you can effectively argue the other side, write a letter to the editor. Meanwhile the investigative journalists who wrote this should be praised, not tossed aside by 100 words of dissent.
What I find strange is that when the NDP were in opposition they berated teh Tories about VLT’s. “Hold a referednum to ban them! ” they said! Yet, now that they are in power, the silence is deafening. Surprise surprise. Who knew the NDP were liars and hypocrites?!? The fact is that they are as addicted to the money generated by VLT’s as the people are to playing them. It is sad. The government will ask the question “Where will we replace that revenue if we ban them?” To which I ask “What did you do BEFORE there were VLT’s”? The province survived then and will survive now. In the meantime you have people jumping off bridges because of them.
first off lets be clear.gambling is not an addiction or a disease.it is a problem.
if people make excuses for behaviour they wish to change they will fail in changing their behaviour.they know what the problem and they know the solution to their problem.it is not more government taxpayer programs,it is an easy solution.it is called self reponsibility,stop putting your money in the machine.
i know the enlightned ones will say it is not that easy,but it is.allowing people to whine about their problems,giving them excuses and saying it is not your fault all lead to a failure in adjusting the behaviour.
psychologist are good at looking for these excuses so they can justify their shallow jobs.sure they do provide some help but i gurantee over 90% of their clients should be told firmly.you know your problem and you know the solution to your problem,no more excuses .either fix it or learn to live with it.either way shutup about it because we are all tired of hearing the constant whining.
I’ve worked in and out of bars for the last 6 or 7 years. Each bar having multiple VLT’s. I can tell you first hand that these machines ruin lives, I’ve watched it happen. They are strategically placed in common locations but behind closed doors. Any addict knows where to find them. There is almost a social culture between regular players.
Whatever the independent studies say, they are bull. I’d love to know the hours that the independents worked….Mon-Fri 9-5?
If they want to keep them in service then I think they should figure out a reasonable daily limit and anyone that wants to play must sign up.
Sixxes, you’re a loser with no compassion. Or brains. you need to have a loved one’s life ruined by VLT’s so that you’d get a dose of reality regarding these misery machines.
Premier, you’re a lying hypocrite who many of us hoped would do the right thing about these life-altering crack-boxes. I’m now a card-carrying member of the Green Party, and I feel badly for the NDP in N.S. who your lies have relegated to its laughing-stock position of the past: it’ll never get elected again here!
AND MARIE MULLALEY, HEAD OF THE NS GAMBLING COMMISSION GOT OFF IN THIS ARTICLE SCOTT-FREE, SITTING PRETTY IN HER PALACE AT 5731 OGILVIE ST. IN SOUTH-END HALIFAX, AS WE WERE SHOWN IN FRANK MAGAZINE!!
Finally, I have to give kudos: to brave people like Debbie Langille, who fights the good fight, a little David against the big-money marketing and bs-spinning of the VLT Goliath. Don’t worry Debbie, karma’s coming your way. (You too, MARIE, only yours will be of a different kind.)
Gambling, alcohol, tobacco, drugs, even ‘protection’ for big businesses…what’s next in the revenue grab? Government run brothels? No wonder we don’t have a mafia problem…the whole territory is already occupied.
Yet, regardless of taking advantage of bored, desperate or sick people, we don’t seem any better off than we were before we threw ethics out the window. In fact, between deeper and deeper cuts, higher taxes and more and more debt, I wonder why, with this extra revenue, it appears that we can’t even maintain the standards of pre-gambling times.
I think we need more mothers and wives keeping the provincial house and managing the budget! Everyone knows a mother will take food from her own mouth to feed her children while a father will generally take the biggest portion of all. No wonder everything is in such a mess.
I didn’t realize a billion was going into VLT’s, but I have certainly noticed the damage. One of the main reasons I’ve always been against them is the fact that they take money out of the real economy. Whether the money goes to government or not, the fact is the system interrupts the natural flow of money. It’s a growth killer. Economics 101 suggests it’s the multiplier effect that produces growth, not VLT’s. It’s too bad governments in Nova Scotia don’t get that. Maybe it’s time to make like Kermit and join the Greens !
Another politically structured advantage for the Government, if it wasn’t a cash cow then the Government wouldn’t make the rules. It’s like the Cigarettes, gas and Alcohol taxes, it doesn’t matter to the Government how many people lose there retirement money or kill them selves out of depression from playing these machines till all there funds are gone. The Government will be in it till the last person puts his or her last penny in it and then the Government will grab it as quick as possible and if that person dies, with nothing, so what, the Government doesn’t care, nor will it any time soon. Average people are so naive to the Mafia Government in this province and Country. Gas tax is another joke but that is why all Government officials make big big bucks, gets a big big pension and so do all the other Mafia players that surround him in there daily duties. Gambling machines will not be replaced with anything but more gambling machines.
Rhetoric aside, VLTs are an odd breed. They bring in a good source of income, yet they have a small, yet significant social cost associated with them. This article brings up a number of interesting points; especially how the First Nations’ reserves have funded a good portion of community initiatives with the proceeds, or how only a very small portion of the people that play VLTs account for a significant part of the income generated from these machines.
The bad part of this is that these machines function on the whole “Skinner Box” principal that the Professor from Dalhousie alluded to, and it can effect anyone, not just someone with a propensity for addiction. As it was mentioned, it teaches a negative behaviour, unlike typical gambling, where there are structured rules and there are clear win/no win situations. I think that’s what is so despicable about the machines. It turns people who don’t have a shred of addictive tendencies into people who are problem gamblers.
This is going to be a question we’ll be asking over and over again. If it wasn’t VLTs, it would be slot machines, which function the exact same way. This wouldn’t disappear even if we got rid of the machines entirely, it would just shift the problem. Which, not surprisingly, cause other societal problems. It won’t be solved with government intervention or by studies by universities. I think communities that have a number of these machines (which are primarily low-income) need to come together to find a proper solution. Whether that means support groups that support those with these problems, or groups that take action within the community to force business owners to be more mindful of intervening into situations where people are clearly abusing the machines.
you are right fever.rhetoric aside,the problem would not be solved if machines were to be banned it would simply be replaced with another problem. that these people would then ask the government to try and fix for them.
empower people with the lesson of self responsibility and they would most likely be able to solve their own problems.blaming the world gets you no where.
vltliberationarmy enjoy silencing differing opinions.
It goes a bit deeper than just saying that people who are addicted to these machines should just be “responsible”, sixxes. As I mentioned, these machines function on the “Skinner Box” effect/principal. What is so devious about them is that people basically learn that if they keep playing just that one more time, they’ll win… Maybe.
To some people, that’s stronger than any addiction.
I am quite concerned when I see posts from people who assume that “self responsibility” is the downfall of people sucked into the VLT’s. What people fail to realize is that the inventors and designers of the VLT hire behaviour analysts, psychiatrists and a number of other professional that are trained in the area of human behaviour. they are specifically looking for the ultimate design that will ensure a draw for people to sit down and “try” the machine, but more importantly, draw them back to it.
I was enticed by all the VLT promotions to “play for fun”. I didn’t drink, go to bars or anything like that but the lure of the VLT’s promoted “social fun”. So I tried them. And the commercials were right! The VLT’s were fun, but the designers were dead on. They designed a game that would create addiction.
Don’t assume that a person is “irresponsible” and that it is the players fault for becoming addicted. That was the whole point to the design of the machine was to count on the addiction to ensure repeat playing. Without repeat playing, there is no profit!!
I am one of the people interviewed in the article written by the King’s College Students. I say hats off to you all for taking the interest in the subject and the time to learn more about the subject. My comment is to BIG D and SIXXES: i suggest you take the time to learn about what you are speaking of. You both are obviously voiceing your “personal” opinions and not factual opnions. If it was a simple as you both suggest, well educated people like myself would not fall prey to the VLT’s. If it was just that simple, then after loosing, according to your logic, one would never return to the machines. I think you both best do some background research into the creation of the machines and what really goes into the planning of them. I think you would both be suprised. Then, I’d like to see you both go out and have some “social time” (as suggested by the promoters of VLT’s) and come back to this site in a year and let me know how your making out with your “behaviour change or your responsibility”. I would be more than interested to know.
and when you do come back here in a year from now, I’ll be one of the first people to listen to you “whine” as you talk about the devestation and chaos your life will be in. But don’t worry, those of us who voice our opninons based on personal experience and facts, will be the ones who help you through this, since your government certianly won’t have any aide for you!!
do not try to lecture me on addcition.
listen i had a severe addiction, a real addiction.i overcame my addiction by taking reponsibility for it.others i talk to that overcame that same addiction i had,followed the same procedure.we did not whine about our problems,such as those who never overcome their addiction.these people that constantly fail are the ones that blame everything, everyone else.looking for outside help,never towards themselves,going through that revolving door of rehab.
take your victim mentality and preach it elsewhere.i despise people that endorse victim mentality,when it is well within their power to stop what they are doing.
the argument you put forward,its not my fault its theirs, can also have some dangerous consequences.
there is no correlation between “highly educated”and discipline/self control.
The NDP used this issue to batter Rodney Mac when he was the premier. Now that they are in charge, Darrell and the boys have no interest in VLTs…in fact, they never did. What hypocrites!
the students that wrote this should get an A*
You seem to missing the point sixxes: this is a learned behaviour, not an addiction. An addiction works by creating a physical need for a drug, be it an opiate, alcohol, or whatever your vice may be. This is something that is much different. You simply just can’t “take responsibility” for your actions on these machines; they function on a very basic level in your brain function. Right down to the flashing lights and even the musical tones that machines use… They’re all programmed to make you want to play, and unlike a drug, there is no overdose, no side effect. In a way, it’s much worse than an actual drug addiction because of this.
i do not know.i am not trying to be a dick here.i simply do not seem to be able to get past the idea that the person is consciously aware that they are putting this money in the machine.they are at some point asking themselves whether they should put that money in the machine.it is not a reflex like pavlovs dog salivating.the decision is debated then the route is chosen.
it is at that point i believe if someone had more discipline,and took more reponsibility for themselves,they would choose to not put that money in the machine.
It would seem like that, but you are compelled to put money in because you might just win that one more time, because that is what the machine teaches you. So, in essence, it is like Pavlov’s dog, even though it may not seem like it. It’s not an addiction in the classical sense, but it’s a compulsion. Kinda like people with OCD. They know what they’re doing, but they just can’t stop. A problem gambler has the same problem. They know what they’re doing, but they can’t stop.
ok fever.lets just say for the sake of argument that while the player is playing,they lose all awarness.that they become marrionets to the machines manipulation.
what is the excuse then,when they are at home and the,with no machine control,leave their homw , go get money and drive to the machine.at that time you cannot say that it is a reflex from the machine bells and colours.it is at that choice made free from the machines manipulation.
you must see the logic in that,and not take responsibility from the individual. also, what is wrong with society, always trying to take away personal reponsibility from people,and getting more government control over us.i do not like the government babysitting adults nor should they be.
My issue is the assumption that these people choose to go back. In most cases, they don’t. It’s a compulsion. It’s like how someone has OCD and has to touch the doorknob 2 times before they leave the house. They have to do it, otherwise they don’t feel normal. Do you get what I’m saying? It’s much different than a crack addict just picking up the pipe.
there is still a conscious decision being made,whether or not there is a stronger pull from one side the person is ultimatley making the decision. i just feel if excuses were not accepted so easilty people would be more inclined to choose the right course.
when was the last time,fever, when you, or someone else messed up.and when itdid happened what did you hear.i always hear people say, it is because of ‘this reason’or ‘that reason’. honestly fever,start paying attention to all the excuses people give for anything.even simple things such as being late,or not finnishing a report,or getting their job done.nobody takes responsibility for their actions.
how often do you hear someone say,’yes i messed up,there are no excuses,it will not happen again.’that final quote is how i live now.i also know it is rare to see others use this approach.but people should,it honestly solves problems head on with effective results.
people are stronger then they give themselves credit for, or people give them credit for.i really believe if people put their minds to a goal,and maintain discipline they can accomplish things that they once thought were unattainable.
when you start getting rid of excuses in your life you realize their really are no excuses
Cut the sermon sixxes.
These people do not make a decision. It’s a compulsion. Not a decision.
Kinda like how you’re compelled to not climb the electric fence? Same thing, but these people are compelled to gamble.
i listen to your position.all you propose is an endless spiral of excuses.tell me o wise one.when is anything anybodies responsibility.and bullshit to the reflex argument.hunger is probably the strongest reflex there is.yet people seem to be able to starve themselves to death.why because they have determination,resolve,discipline.fortitude.
as you claim, reflexs are stronger then conscious decisions. so how do you explain people starving themselves to death, where the reflex to eat is engaged over many weeks, along with the pain reinforcing that reflex.which greatly magnifies that eating reflex.let me guess it is different somehow.no its not.
just think of all the excuses for any bad behaviour,drug dealing,murder,gangbanging,etc that you open the doors for with your pathetic,niave outlook on things.let me guess you will draw the lines on when conditioning is involved and when it isn’t.
we are not simple conditioned animals.we are complex.we are not skinners mice or pavlovs dog.we have free will.
you seem like the type of person who is very well read,educated, without much life experience.and that is your problem.you believe that there has to be some deep complex solution to an issue and your ignorance on life reinforces it.
stop creating excuses for people because they deserve none.stop teaching weakness and dependancy.and tell me what is wrong with teaching responsibility.
my system gives no excuses for behaviour, and people would be judged accordingly by their behaviour.yours is wishy washy unfocused nonsense.imagine a world where you are not responsible for anything you do.because that is exactly what you are saying.
This article seems to present this addiction in a truer light. Take a moment to read it and find the similarities in all the victims involved in this awful cycle.
http://gambling.kingsjournalism.com/
vlt`s are the worst ripp off ever put in our clubs now we have hundreds of mini casinos all over our province.This place i always loved is now mini veges full of people who are hooked, on pre-set mofia style software desighned to depress,and “steal” peoples money.They have zero positives,and now they got them cut down so you will almost always lose.Our government dont care how many lives they destroy.I used to love it here,and wanted to raise a family here.Now i hate my government.Vlt`s are a scammers dream.Now are government is stealing from there own people.Just like the mafia.They just opened a new club here.I just seen 3 people who lost there money there.It was like atlantic lotto shut them all down no hits all take.I heard two people walk out saying they will never ever go to that club again.From what i witnessed it eppeares they shut off all pays before you even start.They are elligally using them to fool people.Whoever approved the softwere is a crook,and was payed well on the side to figure out a way to hurt people and mislead them.The machines pay is about 10% for player and 90% for atlantic lotto.
How many people have to die,or wish they were before our stupid government throws those ripp off ,no entertainment always lose games out of our clubs.The same people i trusted to protect our people are stabbing us in the back.One day someone is going to lose it …and watch there sleepy droopy mafia eyes open wide then!They are 99% negative 1% good for a pass time for the “rich” who love to throw away there money.That 1% are the ones who want them here.The poor and gulable are the real victoms..
That urge to feel rich for once ,kills them slowly.They go home,take there losses with them.
Why are they still here?Don`t the government steal enough from the middle class who have 9, tenths the education they have,yet only earn about 10% of there income.I think, i see some angry groups forming as we speak with there own solution as how to end the vlt problem.I would love to see them pilled up on main street and party while they burn.I hate them so much.I will not stop until there gone.I will continue to write posts everywhere i can.I am only one person so far,But we cant let our government get away with ripping off our people with those crap ripp off games.The softwere is a scam.And they ruin everyone who plays them.
bhii97 your so full of it.Your comments are so ignorant .Hay wake up dummy.Would you throw a bag of addictive pills on the street?Well that`s what the government did when they brought the mini casinos to our clubs. vlt`s are like a bag of crack in a rehab center.
After playing vlts since there inception into our society in the late 80’s I have seen nothing but a steady manipulation of how these games pay and play . Most of the games have a minimum bet of 5 cents and a maximum bet of 2 dollars and 50 cents . The maximum single hit being 500 dollars on a 2.50 bet and 50.00 on a 5 cent bet was the limit set by Atlantic Loto although in the late 80’s in was common to see fever bonus rounds hit much higher . I personally witnessed on countless occasions wins up to as high as 1500 dollars on the “swinging bells ” game in “fever” mode . This was all fine and back then even though the government was making a fortune , the games were reasonable in terms of their frequency payouts . It was common to see lineups to get on the games . It was also common to see many people betting low because they knew they had a fair chance at winning the 5 cent 50.00 hit , the 25.00 hit , the 10 dollar hit , the 5.00 hit and even better , a very large bonus that had built up by higher betters over time . This was the moderate players game and the poor persons game . It was kind of like Robin Hood …the people of lesser means saw an opportunity to get easy money with little risk and believe me they did …and I did . The pay tables claimed that the opportunity to win 50 dollars on a 5 cent bet was exactly the same as the odds of winning 500 dollars on a 2.50 bet . Well It certainly appeared that way at that time . I can tell you that I personally hit the 5 10 25 and 50 dollar wins every day on 5 cent bets as did countless other people who played those bets. The problem with me was I didn’t know when to stop and I would use the small wins to play larger bets . Sometimes that paid off big time but more often you would lose your small winnings . Thus the longer you played the more likely you would lose your money . The house wins in the long run . Anybody who gambles should know that and when I lost back then I accepted it as my own stupidity . However after the first five years a new regime of programming began and it did not take long before it was evident to the long term players . The reduction in pay frequencies was so drastic it was shocking . The low end hits were completely destroyed . The 5 10 25 and 50 dollar hits all but disappeared . The bonus wins were either changed to bet higher to get it or all but removed from the low bet regime . Hence the beginning of the reverse Robin Hood . NOW IT IS TAKE FROM THE POOR AND GIVE TO THE RICH >>>>the poor have been taken out of the win loop altogether . Some might say the poor shouldn’t gamble anyways but to those people I say mind your own business . It’s a free world . In the case of Atlantic Loto’s vlts it was a regime of hook the poor and then set the games to steal . In the first 5 years the returns were excellent on the low end and with such small bets there was little risk ..even for the poor . Some 8 to 10 years ago Lloyd Robertson of CTV News stated that Atlantic Loto had press released this about the vlts …” No matter what the machine electrical or mechanical …the higher the bet ..the more frequent the payout . ” Now does this statement sound like a random set of events taking place if they can manipulate the random number generator in this fashion . It is a complete conflict of terms . Now my 5 cent to 25 cent bets have been destroyed . The distance between these bet line wins are so great I can no longer win . Aside from the fact that I know this is the case let’s just look for a moment at the statement . “The higher the bet the more frequent the payout .” Does this mean that there is an incremental raise in win frequencies on every bet line ? It seems to suggest that . Although it is evident if you play today that that is not the case . Does it mean that they selected a halfway point and that the pay frequency is higher from say 1.25 and up ? Are they paying out a higher percentage as a result of this statement . Because if they are not , then the only way they can increase pays on the high end is to take it from the low end . Hence it is not set of random events anymore and conflicts with their paytables which are right on the machine for you to read . They are fraudulently stealing money from those who are betting on the low end and think that they have the same odds as they had in the early years . The fact is we don’t know what they are saying exactly by this statement and they certainly have not given a detailed explanation . In my opinion , to present the same game and change the odds as you go , is highly fraudulent . I can only hope that the RCMP investigate the programming because it is evident to me they are severely corrupt . Cy Davis
They are everything,but good,and there still here?? i dont get it…o sorry i get it our government are misrepresenting there own people as usual.