Much in this Ottawa Citizen article from last week is self-serving convention centre management tripe, which I’ll leave off for another day, but I was struck by the financing of the new Ottawa Convention Centre:
The federal and provincial governments are each paying $50 million to the $170-million construction cost and the city has invested $40 million. The remaining $30 million will be borrowed.
So, roughly the same ballpark as the $159 million convention centre proposed for downtown Halifax.
But look what Ottawa will get for the money: 192,000 sq. ft. of usable space in seven stores—four above ground—in a striking facility that overlooks the Rideau Canal and downtown Ottawa.
What does Halifax get? Just 120,000 square feet of usable space stuck in two basement levels with a view of absolutely nothing.
I’m very skeptical of the financial projections for both facilities, but I think one thing is inarguable: Ottawa’s getting a hell of a lot more for the money.
This article appears in Oct 7-13, 2010.
All that PLUS a really decent design! Nothing like the bastard child of a semi-pseudo Victorian office block and a 1967 Super City Building Kit assemblage.
I would cherish the day that heritage folks would let a building like that go anywhere near the downtown area. For this one, Tim, I suspect that the developers are not to blame. There are strict guidelines to follow on what ‘fits’ with the existing ‘streetscapes’. Guidelines that are heavily influenced by heritage preservationists and plain ole ‘everything should look the same as it was before’ kind of folk.
Many of these developers have been around the block a couple of times already and know, from experience, what kind of design works with and gets approved, and what is best left for fantasies of a city led by a more inspired municipal government.
As for the difference in price, that’s not an apples to apples comparison. Ottawa also has lower taxes and cheaper food. Should we blame that on the developer’s too?
Competition is also a key factor. There is limited development activity here, so there is a limited number of service providers. Therefore, they can charge higher prices. Combine that with the very different business environment, taxes, pre-existing agreements, the market for conventions in Ottawa, and a ton of other conditions that are at play, and you’ll agree that the comparison between the two costs can’t be objective without knowing all the details.
I am having a hard time sticking with the $159m number. If I add up the bits and pieces as reported in the herald today it comes out to a lot more and I can think of a half dozen things to included in the calculation… like the ongoing loses from Convention Centre I and the new marketing required to sell the excess (er… expanded) capacity.
I’ll admit to being ignorant of the details of each project, but I go by the new structure in Ottawa everyday (whilst on my way to work on the bus, which travels on the dedicated transit way *AHEM*). This building has had my attention since I first noticed it’s construction. It’s going to be beautiful, and true, it doesn’t look like anything my beloved Halifax could ever hope to get built in the downtown.
I personally don’t understand why the empty buildings in Shannon Park haven’t been razed to make way for something extraordinary, that could boost the economy, and attract people to an otherwise usless area. No outdated “gotta make it look old” building regulations on land with nothing worth keeping (excepting trees).
Actually, almost all of the Save the View/ Heritage people I have heard from would welcome this building. (Whether taxpayers should pay for a new convention centre is another issue.) Rank’s complex is the ugliest construction I think I’ve ever seen. Architects and developers in Halifax (not all, but the majority) have the worst taste. Take a look at the lovely pics in the Bid Summary:
https://conventioncentreinfo.com/wp-conten…
Who are the architects for Rank Inc. ?
(Assuming they have one and not just an Upper Canadian reject design bought for a deep discount).
The proposed library looks a damn sight better. Maybe that Danish architect could rough up a few sketches the next time he visits.
Bet the office tower never gets built, unless Darrell is stupid enough to pay $35 a square foot for a lease. The feds won’t pay for the space until Harper loses and the Liberals want snazzy federal offices, and a steady stream of donations.
Will Stephen Lund at NS Business Inc. soon be announcing the 2,000 high paying $60-70,000 financial industry jobs he rambles on about ?
The irony of nasty, world crisis causing bankers bailing out an NDP approved development is almost too much to bear.
Look at this beautiful, landmark facility… if we are to spend money on a public convention centre, lets have it designed by the best architects in the world and do it right – on the water, use our strengths, not build another cheap, poorly designed piece of infrastructure, like, for example our $300m sewage system http://www.canadianarchitect.com/issues/st…
Once again Issmat nails it. Look at the things that actually get built in the downtown: uninspired (dare I say ugly?) red-brick piles like the Marriott Residence Inn, the Prince George, Neptune, and the condos on Barrington and Blowers. Modern architecture? Not us, please, we’re Halifax.
Part of the reason that Ottawa is getting more “bang for the buck” is that they aren’t building a hotel. The Westin is already there, they’re just replacing the poorly-built and too-small convention centre that was there already. So a more accurate comparison is as follows:
Ottawa: 192,000 sq. ft., 7 storey convention centre with massive, beautiful glass wall overlooking Parliament and the Rideau Canal: $170M
Halifax: 120,000 sq. ft. convention centre + a hotel, beauty to be determined, overlooking the water at the expense of the Citadel. $159M
Do I like the Halifax idea? Nope. But one must remember that we’re getting a vacant hotel too.
Well for one we don’t need a convention centre.
We already have one and we don’t need to get rid of it.
I attended the meeting that was trying to drum up support for the idea and it was just a group of people trying to sell an idea.
We can’t even fill the convention centre we have let alone build another one!!!!
The city has to offer something for any conventions to come.
We need a true, authentic nicely organized and designed market, this one on the waterfront sucks and I spoke to a lot of vendors, several will not be renewing and are going back to the old spot.
We also need a decent fish market. We’re the only city on the water without a decent fish market. If I hear Fisherman’s market one more time I’ll puke!
We also need an aquarium, a nice theme park or 2 and certainly more programs to keep youth out of trouble.
Maybe the money can be spent on some of the ideas I just mentioned, which is what I said in the meeting, rather than a stupid convention centre that’s not going to benefit anyone!
Interestingly, the whole discussion about conventions being a dying business never was an issue in Ottawa.
As nice as a waterfront location might be for delegates, it would not benefit the heart of the restaurant and retail community nearly as much as Argyle.
most people that have seen these series of plans like the look of the new building :a stand alone trade centre would have worked ,but the partnership with a major hotel management company,plus the inclusion of retail on grafton street,this only makes this plan stronger and will bring in needed tax revenue for the city and province….and you cannot compare the two convention centres because the portion of federal dollars are greater for ottawa and the flat lay of the land makes their design suitable for that area!
oh,by the way,the ottawa’s convention plans have their meeting rooms inside with no windows,only viewing will be as you dart from one room to the next,just likein our new building,with views of argyle,prince and sackville streets….most ccnvention spaces need all available wall space for trade shows,exhibits,etc…so,please do some investigative reading before you state a case…
Yes, all the exhibition and meeting rooms in Ottawa’s convention centre are closed. Same as ours, same as all other convention centres everywhere. The difference between ours and theirs (and all the others), is that we will not have a view when dashing from one room to another. Our halls and common spaces will be underground. Let’s say you want to step out of the room to take a phone call. You’re standing in an artificially lit generic hallway.
Only the entrance to our centre will be above ground. Our pre-function spaces – which often serve as reception areas – will also be underground. Except one of them, the lobby, will be on Argyle street level. There will be NO view of Prince or Sackville streets whatsoever.
Ottawa as well as Fredericton, Charlottetown, Montreal and Quebec City all have spacious halls and pre-function areas almost entirely windowed and some with splendid views onto their cities or waterfront.
Those lower chunks of the development we see with windows are for Rank’s other tenants, retail and commercial.
Take a look at the plans. Compare with Ottawa’s. Lobby, Pre-Function and Reception spaces, Multi-Purpose Space, Ballroom, etc.
https://conventioncentreinfo.com/wp-conten…
Ottawa’s convention centre promo video (shows all the room/spaces in 3D):
http://ottawaconventioncentre.com/en/plann…
Fredericton:
http://www.frederictonconventions.ca/conte…
Charlottetown’s new waterfront convention centre:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-isl……
Montréal:
their motto is: “fenêtres sur le monde/ views on the world” (fenêtre is French for window)
http://www.congresmtl.com/en/informations/…
Québec City:
http://www.convention.qc.ca/tiki-index.php…
CORRECTION:
To get a better view of the different spaces/rooms in Ottawa’s centre take a look at their interactive floor plans. Look at the architects renderings for their Pre-Function Spaces.
http://ottawaconventioncentre.com/en/plann…
I don’t really understand why people insist on comparing the two. Halifax and Ottawa have vastly different considerations that are going to heavily influence architectural options. Halifax is an extremely hilly city with very tough soil – unless you want to put buildings on stilts, building into the existing slope is the only realistic option. Granted I’m not hugely familiar with Ottawa but I would imagine that pseudo-Amish special-interest groups don’t carry the iron grip on city development the way the Save The View camp does here in Halifax. When you relentlessly use the Citadel to keep city development hostages, why is it any wonder that building design is so uninspired? You want something as radical as Ottawa’s design? Tell these StW whiners that this isn’t the 19th century anymore.
Somehow Rank is able to build his buildings onto the slope. His other tenants are getting a good view of the city and harbour. I don’t see how it’s not possible to put a convention centre above ground. Also, there were other proposals for the Cogswell site and for the waterfront. But HRM and the Province decide that underground is more ideal?
Fuck sakes, why don’t we just build the convention centre right on top of Citadel Hill. Make it a zillion stories tall and Phil Pacey and the rest of the Save the View nut jobs will not only get a great view of the harbour they would get a great view of Truro.