Keeping the Common skating oval in place for another year will cost “at least $750,000 to $1 million” in capital costs.
The capital cost figure was revealed in a city staff report to council. “The figure came from Terry Gallager, manager of Facility Development,” explained finance director Cathie O’Toole. “It was an estimate of $750,000 capital, and was to place the refrigeration pipes in concrete rather than sand, do some landscaping/building improvements. My understanding is this would make it suitable to withstand a longer time frame of utilization, and take into account some alternate use during of off season maybe.”
Operating costs haven’t been spelled out in a staff report. By piggybacking on the Canada Games, staff had initially thought this year’s operating costs to the city would be about $110,000, but the unexpected popularity of The Oval has pushed those costs up as the city has expanded hours and added programming like concerts. A total operating figure for this year hasn’t yet been calculated, but councillors are privately expecting next year’s operating costs to run in the $500,000 to $750,000 range.
If so, keeping the oval another season will cost $1.25- $1.75 million. That is considered a temporary run, meant to give staff time to prepare a long-term plan for The Oval.
This article appears in Feb 24 – Mar 2, 2011.
I wonder if we could find a less expensive and more interesting way to do this?
It’s only our money.
A million here, a million there.
Who cares if it all adds up.
Now Kelly wants the feds to pay $500,000 property taxes for the Citadel.
What the hell is he smoking ?
Ovals with natural ice cost around 20 k a year to run. See the financial for the Prince George Oval for your self at (http://city2.princegeorge.ca/CityHall/Mayo…)
The Halifax Oval has the extra costs of a power bill at 100k a year. Which leads me to the question, where in earth is the other 500k being spent ?
I would like to hear some real numbers rather then guess work. Then we can talk about the cost pre use and start comparing to a hockey rink which costs 12 Million. Which is significantly more then the Oval.
joeblow, if a sports venue is done properly it brings more money into the HRM, lowers health care costs and keeps tax payers in Halifax. This means your tax bill would not increase as much with a good venue then with out.
Charles1 – HRM does not agree with you.
They refuse to allow public facilities such as Halifax Forum, Dartmouth Sportsplex run a deficit. They charge kids teams for using baseball diamons and soccer fields.
HRM has no recreation plan for poor kids, they leave that to Boys & Girls clubs and toss them a few crumbs now and then.
The point of my post was to illustrate how Kelly is off spending money as though he has won the lottery. No plan, just whatever takes his fancy.
A less expensive way to do it would be to make the free lakes more interesting for skaters. But then, businesses probably wouldn’t enjoy the economic spin-off.
Joe, It sounds like we are looking for the same thing, I would like to see a workable plan. This includes making sure the benefits out weight the costs. This leads to the same questions many people are asking. Where these numbers come from ? How are you going to make this work ? How can costs be reduced ? If these questions can’t be answered for a tiny project like the Oval then how bad is it for a larger project like a stadium or Convention center ?
Lastly, Joe have you contacted your local councilor to get your questions answered ?
A little off topic – the music being played late yesterday afternoon during the adult skate was HORRENDOUS! (Some particularity creepy version of) He’s Got The Whole World in his Hands? Really? At public skating? The whole line up of tunes was bizarre! Fortunately, everyone but me seemed happily oblivious!
Hello, thank you for the additional information. I am going to take a different perspective and point out, that while skating downtown is a highly desirable past-time, it yet again encourages travel into the city centre, adding to traffic congestion.
Why you ask? Well not just the skaters but those of us on the Chebucto peninsula who have substandard bus service because it is too expensive. We could only go during business hours when the buses travel. Most of us struggle to get to work on buses running during commuter peak times only, no later evenings, weekends and holidays when others can take advantage of the oval.
Instead of setting up yet more perks for the peninsula why not bring us all up to some standard then start offering perks to all regions. We have some shallow lakes that would make great skating areas with a little attention.
Better still give us buses first, skating later.
-resident of Sambro
Uh, ferret, encouraging traffic in the city centre is a good thing. People come, they shop, they support businesses, etc. Maybe if there was more traffic, downtown wouldn’t be a ghost town after working hours.
Or, you know, you could move out of buttfuck nowhere Sambro.
I wonder how much in admission they would need to cover the rink? CHP charges over 6 dollars for a lousy hour swim, I’d pay 3-4 for unlimited skaty goodness.
Yet another reason why amalgamation doesn’t work: city folk telling people they live in buttfuck nowhere.
Charles1 -” Lastly, Joe have you contacted your local councilor to get your questions answered ? ”
I waste my time on more productive endeavours.
Nobody gives a flying fig about the poor, not even the NDP who keep rambling on about ‘the middle class’. Perhaps they just take the vots of the poor for granted.
I suggest the poor vote Tory next federal election, just to shake up Dexter, Layton and Ignatieff. They would not be worse off would they ?
This would be someone from buttfuck nowhere doing the telling, Crank. I don’t live in the city. I just like to visit and add to traffic congestion.
“Or, you know, you could move out of buttfuck nowhere Sambro.”
Ahh… the pure ignorance is blinding.
While the article is meant to explain the costs, it fails to mention the original plan for the equipment to be given to a rink in Spryfield. Incorporated into the costs should be a way to accommodate both.
Planners did not anticipate that the Oval would become so popular, let alone that there would be a demand to keep it after the Games. With the Oval’s popularity, it shouldn’t be a big issue to include some charge to use it (a donation even). The modifications needed to make the Oval last allow will pay for itself, and would allow the Spryfield rink to get the equipment they need as well.
Snubiz: The music played is provided by the ovals two radio station sponsors, complain to the radio stations if you don’t like it.
Something to think about. If we take the midpoint of the numbers ($1.5 million) Bousquet is reporting for one more year of operation and assume a target of 90 days of skating (mid-December to mid-March) and subtract approx. 15 days for warm weather, rain, snowstorms, maintenance, etc. this works out to $20,000 a day.
Something to think about. If we take the mid-point ($1.5 million) of the numbers that are being talked about, assume a target for skating of 90 days (mid-December to mid-March) and subtract say 15 days for warm weather, rain, snowstorms, maintenance, etc. that works out to $20,000 a day.
Beverly do you really believe that ?
It is interesting to do that math Beverley. It’s rare citizens have enough information in advance to do the math on a project for themselves.
I will be even more easy on the thing than you…
Skating Dec- March
Potentially 120 days
30% would be rained/snowed or melted out
So 84 days
Say we could get the cost down to $1m with sponsorships etc.
That’s about $12 grand a usable day to operate.
Say there are average 400 users per day.
Say the oval – like all the other community rinks had to operate on a cost recovery bassis.
The fee per person of a single skate on the oval would have to be about $30 bucks to make it make business sense.
If the argument is that it doesn’t have to make business sense… that it should just be paid for by taxes we would need to know where the money comes from. It’s not good enough to just say “spin -off” blah blah blah. We need to know where, exactly, the money would come from to pay for the thing.
Thinking of it in simple family terms. A family skate is going to cost $120 bucks (4 x $30).
That’s true whether we pay it at the gate or on our taxes.
If we pay it a the gate, someone in the family would get up in the morning and say “You know, I’d like to take the family skating. It would be fun and healthy and I’d like to stop in and spend some more money in the local economy cause I know that’s good too… and everybody says the oval is awesome.”
They would then ask themselves… do I have $120 cash on hand plus more to have a fun leisure day like that. If the answer is yes they do have $120 cash they would think, “Do I need this money to pay the bills, repair the house, invest in the kids education, or save for a rainy day.” If they do have the money to spare they would then think, “Can I and the others in my family afford the time of this leisure activity? Should I be working or planning? Should the kids be in school? Might it be better to just go out and work in the backyard cleaning things up for a couple hours? Maybe the driveway needs shoveled…”
It’s exactly the same – or it should be exactly the same – for the City and Province. And here’s where the story would end. “Do I have the money to have a leisure day with the family? No, no I do not. I better find another way to share some time with them, get some work done and save some money. I don;t have any money in the bank, the credit cards are maxed, and I really don’t have a clear idea how I am going to pay the upcoming bills and but the kids through school.”
Forget the spin offs and spin ons. It’s really just as simple as the kind of family decisions regular Nova Scotians make every single day. We are all experts and we all know the right answer. Even if we all wish it to be otherwise and tend to listen to the Tom Sawyers who tell us about all the shortcuts and easy ways. There are none.
There is no shame in not having a leisure lifestyle. It is shameful to live beyond your means. It hurts everyone.
John, Can you explain why you think the Oval costs more to run then a much larger facility ? It sounds like you are telling me a Honda Civic uses more gas then a transport truck.
Why not compromise? Put in a shallow pool of water that will freeze naturally when temperatures drop. Have a zomboni on site for good skaing days. You will still get at least 60 days of fine skating for a tiny fraction of the cost.
Charles1: John is getting those numbers from the article (which is quoting the city). The city is the one that has some explaining to do.
As for this whole rink ordeal: Halifax really needs to look to Kingston, Ontario. Kingston takes the approach of having a non-cooled rink in each of its city parks (and one in front of city hall). They have installed water hookups at each of the rinks, and change rooms at a few of them. Sure, the ice is somewhat dependent on weather, but as soon as the temperature drops below zero there is a staff member on hand to spray down the ice and quickly replenish it. I can imagine that this approach is much less expensive and I can attest that it makes skating available to a much wider geographic area. Halifax certainly has a number of locations that I see as candidates for this approach.
I you want to stop spending money you don’t have…….
Stop spending money you don’t have!